See-saw Undergrad journey; need advice for onward path

[allinthemind]

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Hi all,

I'm about to graduate and would appreciate any thoughts, opinions, or similar experiences. I'll try to sum up my situation below and really appreciate anyone who bothers to read my rambling.

I'll start off saying that from the start of my college journey, there was the expectation and pressure from family that I'd be entering med school. However, this has never truly in my heart been of my utmost interest. I have never enjoyed the physical/hard sciences and unsurprisingly did not perform well in them. For example, I failed both Organic Chems and Physics on the first attempts.

I took a couple of intro Psych courses early on as a freshman but never did decide on or even think of adding it as a major. Instead, I jumped into the pre-med cirriculum and hated every second of it. My grades in both the intro classes and what I took in the Bio cirriculum were abyssmal at best. It wasn't until I sought a change of pace a few years later that I'd take additional Psych classes.

Rewind a few years later and I was signing up for psychology classes to see how they'd go, even though they were outside of my major. I found them fascinating and ended up enjoying them and looking forward to class for a change. What resulted was by far and away my best grades in college. I ended up with roughly a 3.6 GPA for Psych-only classes, including all A's in my three senior-level psychs.

I got a little crazy with the psych from that point on and then decided to load my schedule like a baked potato, carrying 18-21 credit hour loads for a few semesters. This resulted in me quickly meeting the requirements for diploma since I'd already completed the basic core/filler classes. I also added a Health Education minor and ended up doing well in it also, having about a 3.6-3.7 gpa over those six or seven classes.

Skip back to the failed pre-med classes. I've spent the last year or so re-taking these science classes and didn't fare much better (C's in all that I retook), so I'm leaving my final year with only a 2.0 gpa. My overall cumulative gpa with all the bread and butter comes out to about a ~2.4, sadly. As mentioned, the Psych-only gpa is about a 3.6 as is the Health Education minor I added. As a final note I'll add that I failed several classes with an F in the pre-med cirriculum and also failed some basic cookie cutter core classes when I reached low periods in my life and lost my motivation to attend classes. Additionally, I achieved at least two D's, and a good number of C's, although I never dipped below a C in Psych, Health Ed. or Stats classes.

I both apologize and appreciate 🙂)) anyone who's bothered to read what essentially became a quick personal statement 🙂laugh🙂. I'll try to wrap this up and just say that it's been a wild ride and I'm wondering where to go from here with grad applications - the overall low GPA (~2.4) is well below most school's cutoffs and I'm worried I won't get in anywhere. The terminal goal right now is either a Ph.D or Psy.D with greater emphasis in Ph.D as I'd like to leave the option of teaching open with a main emphasis in clininal psych. I have no problem starting off with a masters before attempting a doctorate program.

 

[erg923]

If you really want it, keep working. But you are correct, a 2.4 is not going to get you into any grad programs in psych. Normally, when people have low GPAs (3.0 or so) they can get into a masters program and use it as a stepping stone by establishing a 4.0 in the masters program. In other words, the masters GPA overshadows the undegrad GPA. However, Im not sure you could even be accpeted into a masters program at this point. Anytime you're below a 2.9-2.8 or so....thats really pushing it for masters programs. However, it might be worth trying if you do well on the GRE......and you do have that redeeming psych GPA. But honestly, thats not gonna help that much, as Department of Graduate Studies at most universities often have GPA cut-offs that they dont bend, even if the psychology department was comfortable with the risk. But yea, bottom line is you're probably gonna have to get your GPA up somehow (keep retaking classes or get another degree), or simply find alternate careers in mental health (ie., MSW, etc).

BTW, you can teach with a Psy.D. It's just more common the be an adjunct professor or faculty at small colleges, rather than large Tier I research universities. I also didnt hear you mention anything about getting any kind of research experience in psych. If you didnt, this is just as much of a hurdel as that GPA. You have to get some somehow if you even want a shot at Ph.D programs down the road.

 

[allinthemind]

I haven't begun any research yet. I'm likely going to work with at least one of the professors that I'll get a recommendation letter from (and received "A" in class). My goal is to both volunteer with a crisis center and have a published work as co-author with one of the professors. My main areas of interest are anxiety disorders, depression, and procrastination (shouldn't be a stranger for many of us students 😉) Any other tips would be appreciated.

Side-note: Do any grad programs allow for "grade forgiveness?" For example an F the first attempt and a C the second attempt. Would it be a 0 GPA for the F and 2.0 GPA for the C and average the two together or take the better and most recent score (2.0) and tabulate it only? The gpas I quoted in my first post (3.6 psych; 2.4 cumulative overall) were without grade forgiveness.

 

[erg923]

Graduate admissions commitees will take your transcript at face value. If it says you have a 2.4, they view you as having a 2.4. Period. You are gonna have to take more courses or otherwise raise your GPA if you want to wiggle into masters program. I would considering going another route that will allow you to work with the same population, for the timerbeing at least. Maybe and MSW first? They tend to be pretty lenient with grades. Get a 4.0 in the program and perhaps a research oriented position after to boost your research credibility.

With all due respect, where are you getting your 3 leters of rec from. Having professor write a letter that says you made an A in his/her class is like telling an admisions commitee that you have a pulse. They know you got an A in the class, they can see that on the transcript. Letters need to talk about your abilities as a research, your dedication to the field, your work ethic, your personality, and your potential clinical skills. I know you might be getting as good research-oriented one, but who are the other 2 gonna come from?

 

[erg923]

My goal is to both volunteer with a crisis center and have a published work as co-author with one of the professors.

Thats a great goal, but its pretty lofty. It's actually pretty unusual for undergrads to get an authorship credit unless you are pulling tons of weight on a project. Second, I dont know how much time you have left but pubs take along time to get to, and even when you do, the lag time betwen submission and publication (if it even gets accepted) is often a year or so.

 

[allinthemind]

That is a good point about recommendation letters. I know of at least one that would work well for a Research methods class since I kept the research project and my work from the class. I guess I'll have to think hard for the other two and be more selective other than just professors that may somewhat remember me. Another possibility is for a senior-level Psychotherapy course that was mostly discussion, projects, and such with a course run by a licensed clinical psychologist who teaches part time as an adjunct professor.

I know the research pub sounds lofty; the professor in question is normally fairly forgiving of placing her 'student researchers' in the submission. It may indeed take longer than I'd imagined. The only real problem I'm facing at the moment (other than the obvious cumulative GPA woes) is I've declared graduation for next term and my parents have made it very clear that my educational and living expenses funding are gone if I break graduation here (this is my 7th+ year in undergrad). I need both work and work experience after graduation prior to grad school attempts.

 

[AryaStark]

I too would recommend doing a MSW. You can even do what you seem to want to do with that degree. I have known a few people at my undergrad who had about a 2.6 and got a SCHOLARSHIP from an MSW program. However if you want to go with a doctorate degree, I agree with the other poster about GPA forgiveness. If you want the ADcom to notice that you got all A's in psych or that you retook your other classes and improved, you would mention that in your PS or ask your LOR writers to mention it in the letter. However, if I were you, I would try to put a LOT of work into getting research experience. It seems your undergrad GPA is a lost cause at the moment, and getting solid experience under your belt would kill two birds with one stone (getting great LORs and research experience). I don't know if a research methods class would be considered serious research experience or allow your professor to really attest to your research skills like they would if you worked in lab with them. Perhaps an upper level research course would, but everyone you will be up against those who have taken research methods, done things similar to you, have gotten good grades and have done other research on the side. If this is something you REALLY want, try to get into a masters program. It can be done.

 

[allinthemind]

Here's a screencap of my overall transcript summary:

It's of course the university calculated GPAs WITH grade forgiveness into account and using this method I have just barely a 3.0. Yes, there are a lot of C's, several D's, and a couple of F's in there.. along with multiple W's. Would I have to re-calculate all of this when applying for a masters using another method?

 

[erg923]

Im not sure I understand? Are you saying that techinically, all those balance out to a 2.4, but your official school transcript (because of this "grade forgiveness" program) says its a 3.0? In your personal statements and apps, you will need to report your offical GPA according to the university. No other way of calculating it is accpetable. The one you report should be the one from your official registrar transcript. Bottom line is, whatever your official school transcript says it is, thats what it is to the program. If it says its a 3.0, thats how the school will interpret it. However, all those C's, D's, and F's still dont look good, (its not just the number that they are gonna look at), and its still gonna be a stuggle for you to get into a masters program in psychology at this point.

 

[allinthemind]

Yeah, that's right.

- With grade forgiveness (as shown above and automatically calculated by the university's gpa computer system) I have a 3.01 overall cumulative.
- Without grade forgiveness (F's calculated as 0.0 and D's as 1.0, etc.) I have about a 2.4 if I calculated it correctly by hand.

HUGE difference between the two numbers and I know even the 3.0 probably looks like crap with the long laundry list of W's and many repeats.

 

[erg923]

Unforntunatley, I have to say I agree. The will not just glance at the number and move on. Further, a 3.0 is not terribly impressive, and all those Cs, D,s and F's will stand out when they are looking over your transcript.

 

[allinthemind]

So I take it my best bet is to -

1. Start ASAP in attaining both research and volunteer experience
2. Begin GRE prep
3. Secure good LORs from ventures above
4. Draft and finalize a good personal statement
5. Apply for a MSW or general psych MA when I've gotten satisfactory experience in the areas above.

I still have one semester left and I could load up to 7 classes of electives that would likely raise the gpa a bit more, though not a heck of a lot with so many hours already accrued. I still need one or two basic psych classes like Abnormal and Perception to finalize a psych degree. The remanining courses can be in anything. I don't know how the Adcoms would respond to courses such as Spanish or Intro to Forensics, a Business class, etc., unless it's a better idea that I just stick to classes like upper level Psychologies. I've already made straight A's in the senior level Psychs I took.

One final question:

Would it be recommended to re-take anymore classes I have a C in and will very likely get an A in now (such as humanities classes I didn't attend as a Freshman... ie, English and Western Civilization..) or simply take new, different courses?

Any other final comments or suggestions would be appreciated as this thread could use a wrapping up.

Thanks for the comments so far.

 

[erg923]

I really dont know. I would do whatever has the potential to bump up the GPA the most. When are you planning on applying? I think you are def not gonna have anywhere close to the GPA or research experience to apply to masters programs for this upcoming application cycle. Professors need to have known you for sometime (6 months-1 year at least) before they will agree to writer a letter for you: at least a letter that is any worth anything. Which is especially important in your case, because you will want them to address your weeakness and explain that they think despite these shortcoming, you do indeed have what it takes.

I still encourage you to find alternate routes (ie, MSW degree) if you are truley interested in clinical work.