Seeking advice on handling classmates...

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Acetabulous

Acetabulous

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Hi everyone! I have seen some invaluable advice come from the members of SDN so I decided to create an account and see what wisdom y'all can impart. Here's the scoop:

I am a first year student at an MD school on the east coast. I am leaning towards going into surgery after medical school. As such, I was really hoping to make an impression on my gross anatomy professors so that I could get a good LOR or maybe be introduced to some people in the surgical field. When anatomy started last semester, I quickly discovered that I had a knack for the technical aspect of it. So much so that when my professor saw some of the work, she gushed with praise. Before I had the chance to receive the praise, someone on my dissecting team cut me off and claimed that they had done the work. My personality is such that I don't know what to say in situations like that.

My question is simple: should I let this bother me? It has happened numerous times over the past few months and I get steadily more frustrated by it every time. However, if the result of the professor knowing it was me who actually did the dissection is a simple pat on the head as opposed to something that could carry some weight in the future, I don't want to stress over it. To the seasoned vets out there, should I chillax or is this cause for alarm/frustration?
Also, will I have a chance of succeeding in surgery if I don't have or like the "kick everyone in the gonads to get ahead" mentality?
 
Acetabulous said:
Hi everyone! I have seen some invaluable advice come from the members of SDN so I decided to create an account and see what wisdom y'all can impart. Here's the scoop:

I am a first year student at an MD school on the east coast. I am leaning towards going into surgery after medical school. As such, I was really hoping to make an impression on my gross anatomy professors so that I could get a good LOR or maybe be introduced to some people in the surgical field. When anatomy started last semester, I quickly discovered that I had a knack for the technical aspect of it. So much so that when my professor saw some of the work, she gushed with praise. Before I had the chance to receive the praise, someone on my dissecting team cut me off and claimed that they had done the work. My personality is such that I don't know what to say in situations like that.

My question is simple: should I let this bother me? It has happened numerous times over the past few months and I get steadily more frustrated by it every time. However, if the result of the professor knowing it was me who actually did the dissection is a simple pat on the head as opposed to something that could carry some weight in the future, I don't want to stress over it. To the seasoned vets out there, should I chillax or is this cause for alarm/frustration?
Also, will I have a chance of succeeding in surgery if I don't have or like the "kick everyone in the gonads to get ahead" mentality?
Click to expand...



I don't think an LOR from your anatomy professors will ever really be a priority. Here is the generic answer I keep getting from upper years:

1) Get good clinical grades and evals
2) Do well on step
3) Don't fail any classes

If you try to say something now about that not being your classmate's dissecting its probably going to make you come across a little neurotic.

Besides I think how you do in gross anatomy won't really matter when you're actually applying to residency... its just another checkmark of a required class you needed to graduate.
 
Acetabulous said:
Hi everyone! I have seen some invaluable advice come from the members of SDN so I decided to create an account and see what wisdom y'all can impart. Here's the scoop:

I am a first year student at an MD school on the east coast. I am leaning towards going into surgery after medical school. As such, I was really hoping to make an impression on my gross anatomy professors so that I could get a good LOR or maybe be introduced to some people in the surgical field. When anatomy started last semester, I quickly discovered that I had a knack for the technical aspect of it. So much so that when my professor saw some of the work, she gushed with praise. Before I had the chance to receive the praise, someone on my dissecting team cut me off and claimed that they had done the work. My personality is such that I don't know what to say in situations like that.

My question is simple: should I let this bother me? It has happened numerous times over the past few months and I get steadily more frustrated by it every time. However, if the result of the professor knowing it was me who actually did the dissection is a simple pat on the head as opposed to something that could carry some weight in the future, I don't want to stress over it. To the seasoned vets out there, should I chillax or is this cause for alarm/frustration?
Also, will I have a chance of succeeding in surgery if I don't have or like the "kick everyone in the gonads to get ahead" mentality?
Click to expand...

1. The next time someone tries to take credit for your work, if it clearly was your work, you've got to grow a pair and shut that bastard down immediately. I prefer sarcasm, direct, clear, confrontational, but still somewhat cordial. Something like, "Dream on hack, I spent the last hour picking the fat off the brachial plexus." It's clear you're calling them out, and won't put up with it again. If you don't, people will walk all over you forever. They won't try again because they'll look like an imbecile getting called out twice.
2. Nobody cares what an anatomy professor thinks about anything. If you want to meet some surgeons, call the med student (ortho, neuro, general) surgery rotation coordinator or the residency director up and ask them when journal club is and for a copy of the articles, and start going. If you're interested enough to go, and read the articles, they won't care that you're there. You'll meet other faculty, residents and fellows there. Now you've become the stealth gunner, and they all know you 18 months before your classmates start rotating.👍👍
3. The departments will have a faculty member in charge of research, get to know that person and they will hook you up with a project. Bust your hump to do a great job and finish before the deadline. If you're good, they will give you another, more important one. It's that easy. They'll pick you over others because they know you already as that wacky medical student who comes to journal club every month.

It really is that easy.
 
Acetabulous said:
Hi everyone! I have seen some invaluable advice come from the members of SDN so I decided to create an account and see what wisdom y'all can impart. Here's the scoop:

I am a first year student at an MD school on the east coast. I am leaning towards going into surgery after medical school. As such, I was really hoping to make an impression on my gross anatomy professors so that I could get a good LOR or maybe be introduced to some people in the surgical field. When anatomy started last semester, I quickly discovered that I had a knack for the technical aspect of it. So much so that when my professor saw some of the work, she gushed with praise. Before I had the chance to receive the praise, someone on my dissecting team cut me off and claimed that they had done the work. My personality is such that I don't know what to say in situations like that.

My question is simple: should I let this bother me? It has happened numerous times over the past few months and I get steadily more frustrated by it every time. However, if the result of the professor knowing it was me who actually did the dissection is a simple pat on the head as opposed to something that could carry some weight in the future, I don't want to stress over it. To the seasoned vets out there, should I chillax or is this cause for alarm/frustration?
Also, will I have a chance of succeeding in surgery if I don't have or like the "kick everyone in the gonads to get ahead" mentality?
Click to expand...

1) call him out. Say calmly and publicly in front of the prof "no, I did this and I do not appreciate you claiming my work. If it continues we may need to discuss professionalism aspects with the office"

2) a pre clinic LOR wont mean anything.

If this guy is doing this routinely, chances are many in your class already hate him. I wouldn't do it out of any perceived benefit to yourself, is do it because it would be damn satisfying to knock a gunner down. But don't do it In a way that gets you into trouble.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
IlDestriero said:
1.you've got to grow a pair and shut that bastard down immediately. I prefer sarcasm, direct, clear, confrontational, but still somewhat cordial. Something like, "Dream on hack, I spent the last hour picking the fat off the brachial plexus."

It really is that easy.
Click to expand...

:laugh::laugh:

I figured as much. Those types of comments play through my head when it happens but I guess I didn't want to come across as confrontational, so I didn't say them. But I know you're right about putting my foot down before it becomes a habit.

The primary reason that this is upsetting me is because I wasn't sure if it could have any effects down the road.

That is some great advice, about the journal club. Thanks!
 
As others have pointed out you're not supposed to get LORs from pre-clinical professors so don't worry about that. Also i'm guessing your anatomy grade is based on how you do in the tests not how pretty your dissection is. so as long as you're learning and doing well on the tests then it doesn't matter what the prof thinks of you.

that being said the above point is pretty important...you need to stand up for yourself. you don't want to be a doormat, especially if you are interested in surgery where this sort of backstabbing happens more often than in other specialties. lucky for you that you're getting this lesson now rather than during 3rd year when the attending's/resident's perception of your effort/work is the most important thing.

SpecterGT260 said:
1) call him out. Say calmly and publicly in front of the prof "no, I did this and I do not appreciate you claiming my work. If it continues we may need to discuss professionalism aspects with the office"
Click to expand...

absolutely do not do it this way though. using sarcasm or humor to get your point across is way better than seeming petty and overly serious/confrontational about something seemingly trivial
 
Acetabulous said:
Hi everyone! I have seen some invaluable advice come from the members of SDN so I decided to create an account and see what wisdom y'all can impart. Here's the scoop:

I am a first year student at an MD school on the east coast. I am leaning towards going into surgery after medical school. As such, I was really hoping to make an impression on my gross anatomy professors so that I could get a good LOR or maybe be introduced to some people in the surgical field. When anatomy started last semester, I quickly discovered that I had a knack for the technical aspect of it. So much so that when my professor saw some of the work, she gushed with praise. Before I had the chance to receive the praise, someone on my dissecting team cut me off and claimed that they had done the work. My personality is such that I don't know what to say in situations like that.

My question is simple: should I let this bother me? It has happened numerous times over the past few months and I get steadily more frustrated by it every time. However, if the result of the professor knowing it was me who actually did the dissection is a simple pat on the head as opposed to something that could carry some weight in the future, I don't want to stress over it. To the seasoned vets out there, should I chillax or is this cause for alarm/frustration?
Also, will I have a chance of succeeding in surgery if I don't have or like the "kick everyone in the gonads to get ahead" mentality?
Click to expand...

1) Your won't need a letter of recommendation from your gross anatomy prof (or any basic science prof) so don't stress about him stealing your thunder. Your grades do matter during 1st and 2nd year but not as much as other factors.
2) You can always tell this person in private that you don't appreciate him taking credit for your work (I wouldn't call him out in front of the prof until after you've spoken in private). Even if the person is a douche you're still on a team.
3) If you want to be introduced to some surgeons you should email the clerkship course coordinator or program director and schedule a meeting to discuss how you can get involved. They can hook you up with research, possible shadow opportunities, and career advice. It can be a bit intimidating to do this as a 1st year student but most people are happy to help. They could be making more money in private practice but they've chosen to work in academics for a reason. Now that your in med school doors have opened and you should take advantage of it as early as possible. I really wish I had done this!
 
Does this type of behavior happen that often? Are people really that flagrant in stealing credit for others work in med school? Sorry if this seems naive It's just hard to believe.
 
skinMD said:
As others have pointed out you're not supposed to get LORs from pre-clinical professors so don't worry about that. Also i'm guessing your anatomy grade is based on how you do in the tests not how pretty your dissection is. so as long as you're learning and doing well on the tests then it doesn't matter what the prof thinks of you.

that being said the above point is pretty important...you need to stand up for yourself. you don't want to be a doormat, especially if you are interested in surgery where this sort of backstabbing happens more often than in other specialties. lucky for you that you're getting this lesson now rather than during 3rd year when the attending's/resident's perception of your effort/work is the most important thing.



absolutely do not do it this way though. using sarcasm or humor to get your point across is way better than seeming petty and overly serious/confrontational about something seemingly trivial
Click to expand...

Obviously we disagree here. I wouldn't be sarcastic in calling out a classmate over something like this in front of a professor. If no profs around, yes... sarcasm 👍 But being sarcastic in front of a prof who may consider the entire thing a breach of professionalism may land you in hot water as well. Depends on the prof and the school, but some are sticklers for this. To many in academia, taking credit for someone else's work is not exactly trivial.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
Obviously we disagree here. I wouldn't be sarcastic in calling out a classmate over something like this in front of a professor. If no profs around, yes... sarcasm 👍 But being sarcastic in front of a prof who may consider the entire thing a breach of professionalism may land you in hot water as well. Depends on the prof and the school, but some are sticklers for this. To many in academia, taking credit for someone else's work is not exactly trivial.
Click to expand...

If sarcasm was viewed as a breech of professionalism, I would still be a lifeguard. You could go for the jugular, but you will look like a wack job in the lab.
If you did that while presenting something to me with sarcasm, I'd let it go, if they did. (they'll fight it out later...) If you activate the nuclear option (professionalism allegations, etc), well, now we've got a problem. I don't want problems, I want to be done, and a latte.
What do I know about academics?
 
IlDestriero said:
If sarcasm was viewed as a breech of professionalism, I would still be a lifeguard. You could go for the jugular, but you will look like a wack job in the lab.
If you did that while presenting something to me with sarcasm, I'd let it go, if they did. (they'll fight it out later...) If you activate the nuclear option (professionalism allegations, etc), well, now we've got a problem. I don't want problems, I want to be done, and a latte.
What do I know about academics?
Click to expand...

I didnt say sarcasm was. I said (and I think pretty clearly) that claiming another's work is a breach of professionalism (and a fairly serious one depending on the situation). And to that end, being whimsical about such behavior in front of a prof may not be in the best interest of the OP. Technically speaking, addressing the situation and suggesting the office handle it is the "by the book" response for such behaviors. The OP suggested the goal was to make the prof aware of it, and in that regard I would not be comfortable being sarcastic towards another student in the presence of the prof over such a matter.

Maybe you read a different situation than I did, but I got the feeling we are talking about the class tool (every class has 1) and therefore going a little bit extreme as I suggested will not be received poorly by other classmates. But what you don't want, is to bring up the situation jokingly and suddenly be found guilty in the prof's eyes of not taking something seriously.

I suppose if we are just talking about a simple correction as in "no, I did that" it is fine. But this also may not address the core problem either.
 
Be a good person. You don't beat a gunner by being a gunner.

Say true things without fear. Such as "you are being dishonest".

You have to have a backbone. Find somebody to argue with you and teach you how to have fun standing up for your position and not getting upset, in a fast-paced conversation.

Go see that anatomy professor, explain the situation, and ask for his/her feedback on what you can do to be more assertive. This could be called the Fall on Your Sword method of getting an LOR.

Best of luck to you.
 
DrMidlife said:
Be a good person. You don't beat a gunner by being a gunner.

Say true things without fear. Such as "you are being dishonest".

You have to have a backbone. Find somebody to argue with you and teach you how to have fun standing up for your position and not getting upset, in a fast-paced conversation.

Go see that anatomy professor, explain the situation, and ask for his/her feedback on what you can do to be more assertive. This could be called the Fall on Your Sword method of getting an LOR.

Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

This is what I was getting at.
 
Yeah, a d-bag that takes credit for someone else's work publicly isn't going to respond to a discussion in private or to sarcasm. You've got to take them down in public, with people who see it (who probably also hate the person and now think of you as their hero). After taking the person down once, no-one else is going to put up with their BS either.

People who do that sort of thing know they do it, and they do it maliciously. I see no problems with making an example out of them.
 
DrMidlife said:
Be a good person. You don't beat a gunner by being a gunner.

Say true things without fear. Such as "you are being dishonest".

You have to have a backbone. Find somebody to argue with you and teach you how to have fun standing up for your position and not getting upset, in a fast-paced conversation.

Go see that anatomy professor, explain the situation, and ask for his/her feedback on what you can do to be more assertive. This could be called the Fall on Your Sword method of getting an LOR.

Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

Are you saying he should commit seppuku?
 
*Don't* go to the professor with this. It's a trivial issue and you will seem neurotic and negative if you go 'tattling' to the professor.

You need to have a direct, professional conversation with the student taking credit for your work in private. This may be a misunderstanding on their part. You could also talk to other members of your group and see if this student is doing the same thing to them. Then go ahead and call them out (I'd agree in a pleasant/joking manner) in class if they remain a repeat offender.
 
I'd call him or her out in front of as many people as possible, but that's just me. And then steal all his books and laptop and trash them right before exam time. Screw him.

What's beef?
 
IlDestriero said:
If sarcasm was viewed as a breech of professionalism, I would still be a lifeguard.
Click to expand...

Nice.

NeuroSpeed said:
Yeah, a d-bag that takes credit for someone else's work publicly isn't going to respond to a discussion in private or to sarcasm. You've got to take them down in public, with people who see it (who probably also hate the person and now think of you as their hero). After taking the person down once, no-one else is going to put up with their BS either.

People who do that sort of thing know they do it, and they do it maliciously. I see no problems with making an example out of them.
Click to expand...

No offense, but this is really awful advice. This guy taking credit isn't going to "get it" no matter what you do. He or she will either never get it, or it will take a serious life event for him or her to realize that there are other people on this planet. It's not your fight.

Keep your head down and handle your business. Do your best to learn as much as you can and move on. There are only two statistics from the first two years that matter: Step 1 and class rank. Everything else is irrelevant. This guy certainly can't influence your step 1 and I doubt your anatomy grade will be influenced by the perceived quality of your dissection. The other person is wrong, but you don't want to be the whiny person in the class. The first two years is about you and your books, period. Chances are you won't even be on the same rotation schedule third year and you may not have to deal with kid again outside of anatomy. He or she will get theirs on third year rotations, attendings and residents are bright and it will eventually come out that he wasn't the one to do work he or she claimed to.


Also, first time using the multiq function!!!!!
 
A couple people's responses make it sound like this is a sort of thing that just happens and is part of medschool. Is that really true? I couldn't have imagined someone trying to pull something like this in my anatomy lab
1) 99% of the people have a conscience
2) nobody would be stupid enough to think that impressing an anatomy professor with a dissection would do them any good.

In my experience during anatomy lab almost everyone became pretty good friends with the people in their group, or at the worst just worked together with the common goal of getting out of there ASAP. I can't imagine what people are trying to do to each other on clinicals if they are pulling this stuff in anatomy lab at your school.

That being said if someone did this to me in lab, no way I would complain to a professor, would probably just laugh and say "atleast give me some credit" or something like that.
 
Wow, Josh, Are you serious? Badmouthing me, your classmate on SDN? I was just kidding in lab. Man, take a joke! After all, there are 4 of us in a group, you clearly did not dissect the whole thing by yourself. You think Swetha and Bob would stand idly by if it was really you who did all the work and I claimed the credit?

Plus, it was not really a praise if she praises every other group, your surgical skills ARE NOT THAT GODLY, that Brachial Plexus looked like a hackjob! Remember how many nerves have you single-handedly destroyed? I don't see you mentioned that anywhere in your post. You are clearly being delusional!!

I have shared this thread on our class FB page, our classmates will be the judge. You started this, not me!


PS: I am not OP's classmate (or maybe I am, I don't know). The above work is purely fictional and satirical (or maybe that's how it really happened, I don't know). In all seriousness, if your story is true, grow a pair and confront the other person. Be assertive, don't let them tread on you.
 
Izanami said:
Wow, Josh, Are you serious? Badmouthing me, your classmate on SDN? I was just kidding in lab. Man, take a joke! After all, there are 4 of us in a group, you clearly did not dissect the whole thing by yourself. You think Swetha and Bob would stand idly by if it was really you who did all the work and I claimed the credit?

Plus, it was not really a praise if she praises every other group, your surgical skills ARE NOT THAT GODLY, that Brachial Plexus looked like a hackjob! Remember how many nerves have you single-handedly destroyed? I don't see you mentioned that anywhere in your post. You are clearly being delusional!!

I have shared this thread on our class FB page, our classmates will be the judge. You started this, not me!


PS: I am not OP's classmate (or maybe I am, I don't know). The above work is purely fictional and satirical (or maybe that's how it really happened, I don't know). In all seriousness, if your story is true, grow a pair and confront the other person. Be assertive, don't let them tread on you.
Click to expand...

:corny: I really hope the OP isn't who you think. Will.be.epic.

Oh damn.... foiled by font color and phone screen.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
I can see why others are saying to call this person out, and while it may be a viable option, you may just want to let it slide. I say this because certain people are abrasive, vindictive and calling someone out like that can oftentimes cause you more headaches, which may make you question why you decided to save face in the first place. Also, you really shouldn't be worrying too much about impressing anatomy teachers. Despite what they may like to have you think, they really are not important to you and if you want to get to know surgeons, then grow a pair and ask to them if you can shadow you. I would rather you grow a pair and talk to a doc to express your interest in a field, then give yourself headaches by "calling out" someone who isn't even worth your time.
 
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