Seeking Suggestions for Re-application Preperations

[Minakami Yuki]

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Hi. This is my first post here so I apologize if I this isn’t the right place.

I applied in 2012’s cycle and was rejected by every single one of the schools I applied to (I applied for about 30 MD schools across the US). The schools sent out rejections sporadically throughout the year, with most of them toward the very end of the cycle. I was interviewed at one school (Temple) but was not accepted.

I am thinking about reapplying in 2014’s cycle. I recently graduated from by undergraduate institution and I am seeking advice about how to better my application during my year off.

My stats:
GPA: 3.83
BCPM GPA: 3.92
(Both were at the time of application, with grades up to the end of junior year. I had 4.0 for both of my senior year semesters so the new GPAs are a little bit higher by the time I graduated.)
MCAT 37 Q

Ivy League undergraduate school.

Some of my activities:
32 hours of primary physician shadowing
40 hours of surgeon shadowing
16 hours of volunteering at primary care clinic (administrative)
40 hours of volunteering at nursing home near my college during school semesters
1.5 years of research in college at the time of last application (2.5 years at graduation). Have my own project supervised by a professor.
One summer at a research lab during my freshman year (not as directly involved in the decision making as I was with the school research, more of a helper role).
2 year experience as a writer for one of the school newspapers.
4 year experience of club sport in college (kendo). Obtained official rank. Have leadership experience (treasurer) and teaching experience. Participated various tournaments throughout the years.

State of residency: California
Age at the time of application: 22
Citizenship status: permanent resident

What am I lacking in my application that made every single school reject me (all without interviews but one)? I know most applicants are full US citizens whereas I am only a permanent resident, but according to most of the information I read the schools at least claim to make no distinction between green card and normal citizens. Do they really not make the distinction? If not, I’m thinking there is something I am doing wrong in my application.

Currently I have a paid job as a research associate. But I wonder what else I can do this year to make my reapplication a success. Please let me know what you think, and thank you so much for taking the time to read this! I really appreciate it(I can also provide my personal statement if needed)..

PS: One more question and I know this is probably not the right place for it, but it is probably easier to answer given my background listed above so I hope you can answer this one along with my previous question: At this point I am also considering the possibility of applying for MD/PhD because I also have a desire for research and think I would probably be better suited for it. Would my background be suited for such a decision? If I were to apply for the MD/PhD program, what additional things should I be doing during my time off in order to prepare for it? And would my previous record of applying for MD in 2012 cycle hinder my MD/PhD applications in any way, if I do decide to apply for MD/PhD?

If you could not answer this question I fully understand. If so I will be reposting this in a more appropriate section.

Thanks again for your help! I look forward to reading your valuable guidance.

-Yuki

 

[Toss]

Hi and welcome.

With stats like those, something must have been really wrong to make you not get a single acceptance.

A couple of points:

1. When did you submit your application? If you're only thinking about reapplying this cycle right now, I'm guessing that you submitted really late last time you applied. You should submit your application as soon as possible after it opens up for submission.
2. How were your recommendation letters?
3. Have you gotten other people to review your essays and overall application?

 

[Minakami Yuki]

Hi and welcome.

With stats like those, something must have been really wrong to make you not get a single acceptance.

A couple of points:

1. When did you submit your application? If you're only thinking about reapplying this cycle right now, I'm guessing that you submitted really late last time you applied. You should submit your application as soon as possible after it opens up for submission.
2. How were your recommendation letters?
3. Have you gotten other people to review your essays and overall application?

Thank you so much for your reply!

1. I submitted my application 3 or 4 days after it was opened up in June last year(2012). Though there were two factors that could have affected it.
a. Although the AMCAS application was submitted early, our school sent out the committee letter fairly late(in August). Unfortunately I was not able to control that because they claim to send them out in August every year.
b. Another factor was that I took the MCAT after I submitted the AMCAS in June, so the score was updated to my application in July even though I submitted it in June.

2. I only sent in the committee letter, which was based on three individual recommendation letters I sent in to our school's committee as well as an evaluation from one of the committee's interviewers. As for the three letters, one was from a science professor who knows me well from several classes, a professor who was my research supervisor and a PhD supervisor from the same lab during the earlier part of my research experience. They all know me well and like my work and performance so I would expect them to write decent letters. Though I did not request to see the letters before they sent them because I was not sure if that was appropriate.

I was also not allowed to view the finished committee letter that was composed based on these three letters.

I did not send in additional letters.

3. Unfortunately I did not get others to review my application other than those of my immediate family. In hindsight I should have done so. Could this be it?

Thanks again for helping me! I am in urgent need to plan out my year so that I can strengthen my application as much as possible. And I really appreciate your input! ^^ If there's anything else you'd like to know about me for giving me advice please let me know!

 

[battousai]

Sounds like something was off on your letters/primary. Have people read through your PS and give you pointers on it.

Also, do you have a school list from 2012? Your stats are good, but you may have applied too top heavy.

Were you waitlisted post-interview or straight out rejected?

As for MD/PhD, I don't think your previous application would hurt you severely. Do you have any pubs?

 

[Minakami Yuki]

Sounds like something was off on your letters/primary. Have people read through your PS and give you pointers on it.

Also, do you have a school list from 2012? Your stats are good, but you may have applied too top heavy.

Were you waitlisted post-interview or straight out rejected?

As for MD/PhD, I don't think your previous application would hurt you severely. Do you have any pubs?

Hi battousai. Thanks for your reply.
There could have been problems with my PS. If you're willing to help me critic it please let me know.

School list from 2012:

Baylor College of Medicine Regular M.D.
Boston University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Columbia University College of P & S Regular M.D.
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA Regular M.D.
Drexel University College of Medicine Regular M.D.
Harvard Medical School Regular M.D.
Jefferson Medical Coll. of Thomas Jefferson Univ. Regular M.D.
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California Regular M.D.
Loma Linda University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Mayo Medical School Regular M.D.
New York University Regular M.D.
Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicin Regular M.D.
Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania Regular M.D.
Stanford University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Temple University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Tufts University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Tulane University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
UCLA/Drew Medical Education Program Regular M.D.
University of California San Diego Regular M.D.
University of California San Francisco Regular M.D.
University of California, Davis School of Medicine Regular M.D.
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine Regular M.D.
University of California-Riverside School of Medicine Regular M.D.
University of Chicago - Pritzker Regular M.D.
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine Regular M.D.
University of Wisconsin Regular M.D.
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Washington University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Weill Medical College of Cornell University Regular M.D.

The school I interviewed at (Temple) simply did not contact me after the interview and the official status is still "Interview Complete" I uploaded to them a document explaining what I had been doing since my interview and expressed my interest in attending the school. However, the status did not change and I was never contacted.

Currently I have no publications. I am continuing to work with the professor from my school's research hoping that we could make a submission in the next few months.I am also currently working on a paid research job. By the next cycle I would have 3.5 years of research experience.

Thanks for your help! And thanks for answering the MD/PhD question. If you don't mind, could you also share with me what else do I need to look out for if I do decide to apply to MD/PhD? Would applying to MD for some schools while MD/PhD on others on the AMCAS application be acceptable? Would schools have access to this information?

Thanks again!

 

[battousai]

What's your state of residence?

Also, send me your PS, I'll take a look.

For MD/PhD, it really helps if you already have an in with a PI. So look at schools and see what they're doing for research. If something really interests you, get in contact with the PI and hopefully they can help you out with applying and can give you pointers on how to get into their research group.

I'm not sure if you need your GRE to apply to MD/PhD, I think it varies from school to school.

 

[Minakami Yuki]

What's your state of residence?

Also, send me your PS, I'll take a look.

For MD/PhD, it really helps if you already have an in with a PI. So look at schools and see what they're doing for research. If something really interests you, get in contact with the PI and hopefully they can help you out with applying and can give you pointers on how to get into their research group.

I'm not sure if you need your GRE to apply to MD/PhD, I think it varies from school to school.

My state of residence is California.

I see. So for MD/PhD it's more of a personal process? They would prefer that I have a specific person in mind during my application?

PM'd you my PS. Thank you very much for the help!

 

[Goro]

Something is very very wrong here, unless it's a simple matter of you applying late. When did you get your secondaries in?

Your relative lack of patient contact volunteer experience could be hurting you, but I'd expect that you should have gotten a lot more interviews with your stats. At the leats, call Temple and ask if they could give you feedback. Call some of the other schools and see if you can likewise get any feedback.

Absent any late applications, I'm worried about a red flag in your packet. Any bad LOR? Recent and multiple misdemeanors? Any felonies?

Your numbers are competetive for MD/PhD programs, and the top tier schools. Do NOT reapply to the schools that rejected you until you know what did you in.

And in the mean time, seem ore patients! Think clinics, hospice, nursing homes etc. Show off your altruism.

PS: One more question and I know this is probably not the right place for it, but it is probably easier to answer given my background listed above so I hope you can answer this one along with my previous question: At this point I am also considering the possibility of applying for MD/PhD because I also have a desire for research and think I would probably be better suited for it. Would my background be suited for such a decision? If I were to apply for the MD/PhD program, what additional things should I be doing during my time off in order to prepare for it? And would my previous record of applying for MD in 2012 cycle hinder my MD/PhD applications in any way, if I do decide to apply for MD/PhD?

 

[Minakami Yuki]

Something is very very wrong here, unless it's a simple matter of you applying late. When did you get your secondaries in?

Your relative lack of patient contact volunteer experience could be hurting you, but I'd expect that you should have gotten a lot more interviews with your stats. At the leats, call Temple and ask if they could give you feedback. Call some of the other schools and see if you can likewise get any feedback.

Absent any late applications, I'm worried about a red flag in your packet. Any bad LOR? Recent and multiple misdemeanors? Any felonies?

Your numbers are competetive for MD/PhD programs, and the top tier schools. Do NOT reapply to the schools that rejected you until you know what did you in.

And in the mean time, seem ore patients! Think clinics, hospice, nursing homes etc. Show off your altruism.

PS: One more question and I know this is probably not the right place for it, but it is probably easier to answer given my background listed above so I hope you can answer this one along with my previous question: At this point I am also considering the possibility of applying for MD/PhD because I also have a desire for research and think I would probably be better suited for it. Would my background be suited for such a decision? If I were to apply for the MD/PhD program, what additional things should I be doing during my time off in order to prepare for it? And would my previous record of applying for MD in 2012 cycle hinder my MD/PhD applications in any way, if I do decide to apply for MD/PhD?

I sent in every one of my secondaries no more than a week after I received them. They were all submitted before the summer was over.

I have no misdemeanor or criminal record of any kind. As for LOR, I have a committee letter from my school that was based on 3 individual letters from people who know me well and like me. I was not able to see what was in that committee letter but I doubt that there was something negative.

I guess the only thing that stands out in my application is that I am a permanent resident of the US as opposed to a citizen. But I was not able to find out a solid answer as to which this has anything to do with my rejections. On paper, some schools claim that they make no distinction at all in terms of admission. I was not able to find another applicant with my situation so I can't really compare.

I did get a feedback from one of the schools I applied to, UC Irvine. They eagerly confirmed to me that they do not take citizenship status into consideration. They also said that my application and stats were "average" and suggested that I continue to work on more activities.

Thanks for the suggestion about the activities! I will be looking into more patient contact. I really hope that was the reason I was rejected because it is something I can change during my year off, unlike the committee letter of evaluation which I am not allowed to change.

 

[Goro]

Your MCAT, at least, is above avg for UCI. You're definitely in the range for the UCs.

One other thing: what schools did you apply to. If you aimed too low, it's possible that the low tier schools said "He's never going to come here, so why bother!" Still, I would have expected you to get more interviews.

I sent in every one of my secondaries no more than a week after I received them. They were all submitted before the summer was over.

I have no misdemeanor or criminal record of any kind. As for LOR, I have a committee letter from my school that was based on 3 individual letters from people who know me well and like me. I was not able to see what was in that committee letter but I doubt that there was something negative.

I guess the only thing that stands out in my application is that I am a permanent resident of the US as opposed to a citizen. But I was not able to find out a solid answer as to which this has anything to do with my rejections. On paper, some schools claim that they make no distinction at all in terms of admission. I was not able to find another applicant with my situation so I can't really compare.

I did get a feedback from one of the schools I applied to, UC Irvine. They eagerly confirmed to me that they do not take citizenship status into consideration. They also said that my application and stats were "average" and suggested that I continue to work on more activities.

Thanks for the suggestion about the activities! I will be looking into more patient contact. I really hope that was the reason I was rejected because it is something I can change during my year off, unlike the committee letter of evaluation which I am not allowed to change.

 

[cheerful85]

16 hours of volunteering at primary care clinic (administrative)
40 hours of volunteering at nursing home near my college during school semesters
[/I]

Hey, if I had to take a guess, I would say that your relatively low number of clinical volunteering hours might have impeded your application. This factor might actually stand out in your application. Many applicants have hundreds of hours of patient contact (some have thousands if they've had clinical jobs), and my school recommends that students apply with a minimum of 100 but ideally even more than that. I've heard stories of applicants with excellent stats actually getting "screened out" at schools due to not attaining some minimum number of clinical hours. Also, a lot of schools like to see non-clinical volunteer work and I didn't notice any in your EC list.

Did you get any feedback on your personal statement and secondary essays before submitting? I think sometimes an applicant's writing style and choices in subject matter can be a hindrance (I, for one, am terrible at writing self-serving self-promotional essays 😀).

I doubt that your permanent resident status was the main barrier to more interviews this year.

 

[gyngyn]

Hi. This is my first post here so I apologize if I this isn’t the right place.

I applied in 2012’s cycle and was rejected by every single one of the schools I applied to (I applied for about 30 MD schools across the US). The schools sent out rejections sporadically throughout the year, with most of them toward the very end of the cycle. I was interviewed at one school (Temple) but was not accepted.

I am thinking about reapplying in 2014’s cycle. I recently graduated from by undergraduate institution and I am seeking advice about how to better my application during my year off.

My stats:
GPA: 3.83
BCPM GPA: 3.92
(Both were at the time of application, with grades up to the end of junior year. I had 4.0 for both of my senior year semesters so the new GPAs are a little bit higher by the time I graduated.)
MCAT 37 Q

Ivy League undergraduate school.

Some of my activities:
32 hours of primary physician shadowing
40 hours of surgeon shadowing
16 hours of volunteering at primary care clinic (administrative)
40 hours of volunteering at nursing home near my college during school semesters
1.5 years of research in college at the time of last application (2.5 years at graduation). Have my own project supervised by a professor.
One summer at a research lab during my freshman year (not as directly involved in the decision making as I was with the school research, more of a helper role).
2 year experience as a writer for one of the school newspapers.
4 year experience of club sport in college (kendo). Obtained official rank. Have leadership experience (treasurer) and teaching experience. Participated various tournaments throughout the years.

State of residency: California
Age at the time of application: 22
Citizenship status: permanent resident

What am I lacking in my application that made every single school reject me (all without interviews but one)? I know most applicants are full US citizens whereas I am only a permanent resident, but according to most of the information I read the schools at least claim to make no distinction between green card and normal citizens. Do they really not make the distinction? If not, I’m thinking there is something I am doing wrong in my application.

Currently I have a paid job as a research associate. But I wonder what else I can do this year to make my reapplication a success. Please let me know what you think, and thank you so much for taking the time to read this! I really appreciate it(I can also provide my personal statement if needed)..

PS: One more question and I know this is probably not the right place for it, but it is probably easier to answer given my background listed above so I hope you can answer this one along with my previous question: At this point I am also considering the possibility of applying for MD/PhD because I also have a desire for research and think I would probably be better suited for it. Would my background be suited for such a decision? If I were to apply for the MD/PhD program, what additional things should I be doing during my time off in order to prepare for it? And would my previous record of applying for MD in 2012 cycle hinder my MD/PhD applications in any way, if I do decide to apply for MD/PhD?

If you could not answer this question I fully understand. If so I will be reposting this in a more appropriate section.

Thanks again for your help! I look forward to reading your valuable guidance.

-Yuki

Permanent residents have no disadvantage in the application process.
A previous MD application does not prejudice an MD PhD application per se.
UCR did not accept applications in 2012.

 

[Minakami Yuki]

Hey, if I had to take a guess, I would say that your relatively low number of clinical volunteering hours might have impeded your application. This factor might actually stand out in your application. Many applicants have hundreds of hours of patient contact (some have thousands if they've had clinical jobs), and my school recommends that students apply with a minimum of 100 but ideally even more than that. I've heard stories of applicants with excellent stats actually getting "screened out" at schools due to not attaining some minimum number of clinical hours. Also, a lot of schools like to see non-clinical volunteer work and I didn't notice any in your EC list.

Did you get any feedback on your personal statement and secondary essays before submitting? I think sometimes an applicant's writing style and choices in subject matter can be a hindrance (I, for one, am terrible at writing self-serving self-promotional essays 😀).

I doubt that your permanent resident status was the main barrier to more interviews this year.

Thanks for your reply. I did notice that compared to most applicants who post here, my clinical exposure is on the low side. If the schools screen out people like you said, then this is actually good news for me because this is something I can correct right now. I would rather make up for something I did not do than changing something soft and vague like letters of recommendation. Also, the essays are also in my own control when I rewrite/edit them. I really hope you are right.

Either way, I will be naturalized very soon. Definitely before the next application cycle so the permanent resident problem will be resolved regardless.

Thanks again for the helpful info!

Permanent residents have no disadvantage in the application process.
A previous MD application does not prejudice an MD PhD application per se.
UCR did not accept applications in 2012.

I see. Thanks for the confirmation gyngyn!

Your MCAT, at least, is above avg for UCI. You're definitely in the range for the UCs.

One other thing: what schools did you apply to. If you aimed too low, it's possible that the low tier schools said "He's never going to come here, so why bother!" Still, I would have expected you to get more interviews.

In one of my previous posts I listed the schools I applied to last year. Please let me know if it was acceptable in this regard.
Thanks!

 

[Goro]

Really? What was up with that?



UCR did not accept applications in 2012.[/QUOTE]