Selecting programs

[curiositykat]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I'm wondering how people decide where to apply.

General rankings are inevitably flawed, especially something like US News, which is based on reputation (? of just the primary, non-public, non-VA inpatient unit), which has only a little to do with the potential residency experience. But, of course, reputation isn't based on just that or a place like MGH wouldn't be ranked number one every year (surely people don't send their patients to MGH for inpatient treatment as often as they do, say, McLean or the NYPH/Westchester or to Hopkins as often as they do the nearby Sheppard Pratt).

I'd think it's more local. People from my med school in NYC tend to apply to same half dozen NYC programs, a couple in California, and a few on the eastern seaboard, and, unless they have some personal attraction to another region, nowhere else. And there is a fairly clear pecking order, with some minimal variation between students that is based primarily on the extent to which they value research, psychodynamics, and the public/private split. In talking to friends elsewhere, that seems to be true as well, though their clusters can vary almost entirely. And I'd think it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle, since selection committees are likely to feel more comfortable with students from places that have historically sent them a lot of students.

Since there are plenty of places that are good and interesting and that are not on my particular list of 10, how does one really find out more about the program before deciding where to apply, and which variables really matter. Websites are sometimes helpful, but they tend to give data that are specific (perhaps lists of colleges and med schools attended by residents) but basically meaningless (going to Average U or Famous U doesn't tell you anything about the person, though, presumably, a bunch of "Famous U's" is likely to indicate that the program is selective--but it could also just indicate that the program bends over backwards to recruit name-brand applicants at the expense of, say, class rank or personality or that the program is associated with a medical school that is crowded with people from certain schools or that it's located in a region where those students tend to be from or want to live. And other variables, like famous faculty, may be pertinent, but some do a lot of teaching, others none, and some are good teachers, some bad. And I'd suppose there are variables that matter a lot that we can't find out about (potential funding problems; future administrative reshuffling), and some variables that may seem huge but may not be especially pertinent (eg, the happiness level of that particular PGY 2 class), some variables that are small but may reflect something huge (eg, muffin service on the day of interview; the friendliness of a particular interviewer) and some variables that may seem huge AND be huge but may be good or bad (eg, the transition of a chair or training director).

This is going on way too long without a point, so... Assuming we tend to apply where students we know tended to have applied in the past, which studentdoctor sections are most useful to the future applicant. I'd guess interview reports followed by the rankings that everybody hates. Thoughts?

 

[psychphan]

The whole residency selection process seems to be more of a random craps shoot than most of us would like to admit. I'm in the same boat as you, a fourth year trying to finalize my applications and I uavent found any real good resources where I can get a good feel of the program. There are threads intended to help us out with that kinda thing, like the interview review thread that has already been linked. And although they are helpful to a point, it is really just the opinion of people who spent one day at the program for their interview. Which again, although helpful is inherently less useful than a review of programs from people currently in the residency. The problem is that throughout my time on these boards I have seen very few reviews of programs from current residents, and those that I have seen have been overwhelmingly positive. Presumably no one wants to bad mouth their institution for fear that they might be identified and be subject to some sort of repercussions. This is completely understandable of course, but still unfortunate. There used to be a website called scutwork.com, whose sole purpose was program reviews from current and past residents. Last time I checked it was no longer operational. It could still be accessed VIA online web archive sites, but most reviews were a couple of years olds and many many programs had no reviews at all. So effectively what were left with is the interview review threads, program websites, and general word of mouth. You can get some idea of a program through those resources but I still don't feel like I have a real grasp on any of the programs to whoch i will be applying. So I am going to apply broadly, to programs in locations where I want to live, and hopefully get an idea of where I want end up during the inteview trail. The bottom line is there are probably dozens of programs that any one of us could go to,be happy at, and leave as a well trained and competent psychiatrist. So we've got that going for us, which is nice.

 

[psychphan]

The whole residency section process seems to be more of a random craps shoot than most of us would like to admit. I'm in the same boat as you, a fourth year trying to finalize my applications and I uavent found any real good resources where I can get a good feel of the program. There are threads intended to help us out with that kinda thing, like the interview review thread that has already been linked. And although they are helpful to a point, it is really just the opinion of people who spent one day at the program for their interview. Which again, although helpful is inherently less useful than a review of programs from people currently in the residency. The problem is that throughout my time on these boards I have seen very few reviews of programs from current residents, and those that I have seen have been overwhelmingly positive. Presumably no one wants to bad mouth their institution for fear that they might be identified and be subject to some sort of repercussions. This is completely understandable of course, but still unfortunate. There used to be a website called scutwork.com, whose sole purpose was program reviews from current and past residents. Last time I checked it was no longer operational. It could still be accessed VIA online web archive sites, but most reviews were a couple of years olds and many many programs had no reviews at all. So effectively what were left with is the interview review threads, program websites, and general word of mouth. You can get some idea of a program through those resources but I still don't feel like I have a real grasp on any of the programs to whoch i will be applying. So I am going to apply broadly, to programs in locations where I want to live, and hopefully get an idea of where I want end up during the inteview trail. The bottom line is there are probably dozens of programs that any one of us could go to,be happy at, and leave as a well trained and competent psychiatrist. So we've got that going for us, which is nice.

 

[notdeadyet]

Which again, although helpful is inherently less useful than a review of programs from people currently in the residency. The problem is that throughout my time on these boards I have seen very few reviews of programs from current residents, and those that I have seen have been overwhelmingly positive. Presumably no one wants to bad mouth their institution for fear that they might be identified and be subject to some sort of repercussions. This is completely understandable of course, but still unfortunate.

The reason you see so little critical commentary from individuals in residency isn't so much fear of retribution as it is n=1. Folks have chimed in on other threads about how well their program is (or isn't) dealing with recent hour changes and what not. But you won't find folks rating their own residency because what on earth would they compare it to?

I think the residency reviews are helpful because applicants are considering like vs. like. Beyond that, talk to psychiatrists you know and respect and get their impressions of specific programs in a geographic region you're interested in living and maybe one day practicing in.

So effectively what were left with is the interview review threads, program websites, and general word of mouth.

Yep. Folks inevitably talk about how "random" it is to choose a residency program, which kind of puzzles me. You have about as much information (or more) walking into this decision than most folks do when taking a job or making other big life decisions. At the end of the day, most big choices involve instinct, luck, and a leap of faith. It'll all turn out okay.