Serious Academic Trouble

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Mr. Osh Kosh

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Hey guys so I failed a class my first semester of med school and successfully remediated it over the summer. I didn't think another failure would happen but sure enough I failed another class my first semester of second year. Now the year is almost over and I failed a year long course (automatic F if you fail more than 2 blocks and I got really sick the day of the GI block and then failed the other two blocks by 1 question) which in itself is grounds for academic dismissal plus I might potentially fail our clinical skills class if my standardized patient exam grade is what I think it is (did fine on the H&P stuff but lost points on subjective things like eye contact and body language). Needless to say this year didn't go as I had expected. The funny thing is I still don't know what I've been doing wrong, there would be some tests I scored high on and then others I barely passed. I'm gonna have a hearing over the summer and if I don't get dismissed I'll have to repeat second year.

Now I'm pretty sure they will give me one more chance, but this is my question - truthfully, if I pass all my classes the second time around and score around the national average on step 1, will I have redeemed myself enough to match at least pm&r or psych? Or am I doomed to family practice in the middle of nowhere?
 
Sorry to hear all your troubles -- hope it works out for the best.

Psych, yes, for sure. IDK about PM&R.

Just do your best -- maybe get some research if you can handle it with coursework.
 
All this stuff won't matter that much. Really they only look at USMLE scores anyway. I know people who were dismissed from medical school, transferred to another one, and still matched at a great program.
 
Gastrapathy, I have been talking to a family friend who is a psychiatrist and she has suggested some underlying anxiety pathology that I have prob had my entire life but is really showing its form now that I am in a high stress environment like medical school. I also got a prescription for ADHD medication from my PCP back when medical school first started and find that while it does help me tremendously, I only use it sparingly for fear of dependence issues. I do not have an official evaluation from a psychiatrist and nor do I have an official diagnosis. While I am willing to do whatever is necessary to come not get dismissed I also don't want such diagnosis to show up on a record somewhere and potentially hurt me down the line.
 
if you got a heartbeat, you can match psych

just focus on passing
does your school have any programs for people who are failing classes?
my school has a program where you go see a psychologist and they look at your life and study habits and try to fix what is going wrong

i'm with gastrapathy
you gotta show that there is something wrong and you are working to fix it

the worst thing is for people at the hearing to think that you are a perfectly normal student who just had low scores
it is a lot easier to give someone a second chance when it looks like they've already identified the problem and are working to fix it
 
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Ugh this nightmare keeps getting worse and worse. I thought that I was likely going to be repeating a year and putting everything behind me, but I just talked to the Dean and she said that it could honestly go either way and that though she wish she could give me an answer there's no way of knowing for sure. She said it's good that most of my fails were just below the cut off, but bad bad that most of my passes were only slightly higher than the cutoff (though I believe there certainly are some classes at least where I ended in the 80s). She also said its bad that I also failed a class last year as opposed to just this year.

Obviously at this point I am beyond terrified and if they do kick me out I will be completely devastated with no real backup (I did an accelerated BA/MD program and my undergrad major was useless and my GPA was just slightly higher than the minimum requirement, plus we didn't have to take the MCAT). So if anyone has any advice please let me know. I am going to continue to keep in touch with my family friend who is a shrink but beyond that I don't know what I can do. It's really crazy how unpredictable life is - I had thought this semester was going to be my best one and now I might be getting dismissed from med school.
 
PrettyDoc82 said:
All this stuff won't matter that much. Really they only look at USMLE scores anyway. I know people who were dismissed from medical school, transferred to another one, and still matched at a great program.
Click to expand...
🙄
 
Mr. Osh Kosh said:
Hey guys so I failed a class my first semester of med school and successfully remediated it over the summer. I didn't think another failure would happen but sure enough I failed another class my first semester of second year. Now the year is almost over and I failed a year long course (automatic F if you fail more than 2 blocks and I got really sick the day of the GI block and then failed the other two blocks by 1 question) which in itself is grounds for academic dismissal plus I might potentially fail our clinical skills class if my standardized patient exam grade is what I think it is (did fine on the H&P stuff but lost points on subjective things like eye contact and body language). Needless to say this year didn't go as I had expected. The funny thing is I still don't know what I've been doing wrong, there would be some tests I scored high on and then others I barely passed. I'm gonna have a hearing over the summer and if I don't get dismissed I'll have to repeat second year.

Now I'm pretty sure they will give me one more chance, but this is my question - truthfully, if I pass all my classes the second time around and score around the national average on step 1, will I have redeemed myself enough to match at least pm&r or psych? Or am I doomed to family practice in the middle of nowhere?
Click to expand...

Focus on staying in the program first and then worry about residency later. Worrying about residency is a moot point if you can't convince the admin to let you complete the program.
 
Mr. Osh Kosh said:
Ugh this nightmare keeps getting worse and worse. I thought that I was likely going to be repeating a year and putting everything behind me, but I just talked to the Dean and she said that it could honestly go either way and that though she wish she could give me an answer there's no way of knowing for sure. She said it's good that most of my fails were just below the cut off, but bad bad that most of my passes were only slightly higher than the cutoff (though I believe there certainly are some classes at least where I ended in the 80s). She also said its bad that I also failed a class last year as opposed to just this year.

Obviously at this point I am beyond terrified and if they do kick me out I will be completely devastated with no real backup (I did an accelerated BA/MD program and my undergrad major was useless and my GPA was just slightly higher than the minimum requirement, plus we didn't have to take the MCAT). So if anyone has any advice please let me know. I am going to continue to keep in touch with my family friend who is a shrink but beyond that I don't know what I can do. It's really crazy how unpredictable life is - I had thought this semester was going to be my best one and now I might be getting dismissed from med school.
Click to expand...
Is this a 6, 7, or 8 yr program? Confused as to how your undergrad GPA has to do with your med school performance.
 
7 yr program. Just meant that since my GPA was only slightly higher than the cutoff I doubt its good enough to leave too many options should I not be returning to med school
 
Sikkunt said:
if you got a heartbeat, you can match psych
Click to expand...

Depends on whether or not the OP is a U.S. MD student. 3.6% of USMDs who wanted psych didn't match this year. But 50% of DOs and IMGs who wanted psych didn't match.
 
Elisabeth Kate said:
Depends on whether or not the OP is a U.S. MD student. 3.6% of USMDs who wanted psych didn't match this year. But 50% of DOs and IMGs who wanted psych didn't match.
Click to expand...
My understanding is the OP is in a combined Bachelor/MD program. I don't know if there are Bachelor/DO programs.
 
DermViser said:
My understanding is the OP is in a combined Bachelor/MD program. I don't know if there are Bachelor/DO programs.
Click to expand...

There are. I thought there were IMG programs that were Bachelor/MD as well. I could be wrong on that though.
 
Also that 50% of DOs who 'didn't match' may include those who were automatically withdrawn because they matched osteo.
 
DermViser said:
My understanding is the OP is in a combined Bachelor/MD program. I don't know if there are Bachelor/DO programs.
Click to expand...

They are rare but I've heard of a couple.

OP - Focus on doing whatever you can (involving kissing ass and making promises and seeking psychiatric help) to stay in school. Worry about your residency prospects later. Focus on staying in school. Try not to think about your 'other options' until this current issue is resolved.
 
Yeah part of my anxiety issues include constantly worrying about the future, and that was part of the reason I did a combined BA/MD program. Its ironic because I chose this route so that I could at least somewhat have my life planned out, and now just about the most unexpected thing has happened. Yes, I am at a U.S. allopathic school, so I know that if they at least let me repeat the year I can still get where I want in life, as I am willing to give it my everything my second time around and came into med school primarily interested in psych or PM&R. I will be in touch with my psychiatrist and make sure that in my hearing they understand that by the time school starts my anxiety will be under control. However, I was saw some poster on this forum mention something about a medical school study skills course. Does anyone have any info on that? I am hoping that if I tell the panel I will take that over the summer to be more prepared for the year that perhaps this might improve my chances of staying in the program.
 
DermViser said:
My understanding is the OP is in a combined Bachelor/MD program. I don't know if there are Bachelor/DO programs.
Click to expand...

If this is true, I'd assume OP has a bit more help on his side. IMO bs/md programs tend to work harder to keep students in the programs, as obviously they have a bit more invested in each student.

I am in a bs/md. Or I guess I was, not sure what you really say when you are in med school.
 
Yeah thank you guys so much I will let everyone know what the final verdict is and once that happens I would be glad to share my general study habits and hear any and all suggestions for improvement. At this point in time I am just praying and keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Elisabeth Kate said:
There are. I thought there were IMG programs that were Bachelor/MD as well. I could be wrong on that though.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that in international countries, the 6 year route after high school is the traditional route to complete medical school, unlike in the United States where a Bachelor/MD track is an alternative track to the traditional route.
 
DermViser said:
My understanding is that in international countries, the 6 year route after high school is the traditional route to complete medical school, unlike in the United States where a Bachelor/MD track is an alternative track to the traditional route.
Click to expand...

Correct. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but I believe most countries in the world have admission to medical school straight out of high school. That being said, medicine isn't considered a doctorate in all of those countries (for example, MBBS in India is a Bachelor's in medicine).
 
evilbooyaa said:
Correct. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but I believe most countries in the world have admission to medical school straight out of high school. That being said, medicine isn't considered a doctorate in all of those countries (for example, MBBS in India is a Bachelor's in medicine).
Click to expand...
Yes, and in that country, you enter residency training as an MBBS, and receive an MD, AFTER completing clinical postgraduate training.
 
Mr. Osh Kosh said:
Yeah thank you guys so much I will let everyone know what the final verdict is and once that happens I would be glad to share my general study habits and hear any and all suggestions for improvement. At this point in time I am just praying and keeping my fingers crossed.
Click to expand...

Hope all works out for you man, sorry to hear about all the problems. Don't get too down, and never question your abilities, i see people do that and it really gets them down.

You seem like you have your head on right and you seem to know what to do.
 
Mr. Osh Kosh said:
Obviously at this point I am beyond terrified and if they do kick me out I will be completely devastated with no real backup (I did an accelerated BA/MD program and my undergrad major was useless and my GPA was just slightly higher than the minimum requirement, plus we didn't have to take the MCAT). So if anyone has any advice please let me know. I am going to continue to keep in touch with my family friend who is a shrink but beyond that I don't know what I can do. It's really crazy how unpredictable life is - I had thought this semester was going to be my best one and now I might be getting dismissed from med school.
Click to expand...

Life is unpredictable but I'm not reading anything unpredictable in your story. Instead of posting here, why not grab an empty notebook or open a Word file and start dissecting exactly what you've done wrong. Both first year and currently. You seem clueless which is a big red flag that you don't even have any business taking class again, let alone treating patients.
 
Anastomoses said:
Life is unpredictable but I'm not reading anything unpredictable in your story. Instead of posting here, why not grab an empty notebook or open a Word file and start dissecting exactly what you've done wrong. Both first year and currently. You seem clueless which is a big red flag that you don't even have any business taking class again, let alone treating patients.
Click to expand...
🙄
 
NeuroSpeed said:
This is false.

And if you don't know why then you are clueless.
Click to expand...
DermViser said:
Actually you haven't. And if you believe so, then you are delusional.
Click to expand...

You're both entitled to your opinions and cluelessness. Telling him over and over that he should go to a psychiatrist (which he's already doing) isn't really what I'd consider of any benefit. Personal analysis is required.
 
Anastomoses said:
You're both entitled to your opinions and cluelessness. Telling him over and over that he should go to a psychiatrist (which he's already doing) isn't really what I'd consider of any benefit. Personal analysis is required.
Click to expand...

You're telling him to figure out what he's doing wrong. Based off his performance, this obviously isn't working for him. He needs to work with a tutor or someone to figure out what his issue is. It seems like an anxiety issue since he performs well once in a while, which is likely the most important thing to get under control.
 
So bad news...the committee decided to dismiss me. I am obviously going to appeal the dismissal and the way it works is I send a letter + other documentation (prob from psychiatrist(s) and professor(s) in my case) and then have a meeting with one of the Deans (who himself is a psychiatrist) and after that the final decision rests on his shoulder.

If anyone has any advice on appealing academic dismissals please share. Upon further consultation with my psychiatrist it seems like my performance this year was due likely more to an episode of anxious depression than just anxiety alone. I just feel stupid for not catching it, but it wasn't that I was feeling hopeless per se, more that I just stopped having a lust for life. This is going to be the centerpiece of my appeal letter, but again I would really appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone on this board could give me.

I had always thought med schools were about second chances but I guess not. I obv need a contingency plan so I will be sending apps to Carrib schools while this appeal process is going on.
 
Caribbean doesn't sound like a good option for you. It's like the hunger games of medical school, and the only time I'd really recommend someone to partake is if they were a consistently above average student, experienced a traumatic life event which instantly made them suck and they were confident they could reclaim their above average status and thus succeed in the carribean.
 
DermViser said:
Or he could do PA school?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I should revise the statement to reconsider something other than medical school.

It would just be crazy hard as a carib grad who was already dismissed from a US MD school....
 
Wordead said:
Yeah, I should revise the statement to reconsider something other than medical school.

It would just be crazy hard as a carib grad who was already dismissed from a US MD school....
Click to expand...
I know one who was dismissed from a DO school after MS1, then went to carib and just about to finish his residency in IM. But I am sure case like this is probably rare...
 
Mr. Osh Kosh said:
So bad news...the committee decided to dismiss me. I am obviously going to appeal the dismissal and the way it works is I send a letter + other documentation (prob from psychiatrist(s) and professor(s) in my case) and then have a meeting with one of the Deans (who himself is a psychiatrist) and after that the final decision rests on his shoulder.

If anyone has any advice on appealing academic dismissals please share. Upon further consultation with my psychiatrist it seems like my performance this year was due likely more to an episode of anxious depression than just anxiety alone. I just feel stupid for not catching it, but it wasn't that I was feeling hopeless per se, more that I just stopped having a lust for life. This is going to be the centerpiece of my appeal letter, but again I would really appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone on this board could give me.

I had always thought med schools were about second chances but I guess not. I obv need a contingency plan so I will be sending apps to Carrib schools while this appeal process is going on.
Click to expand...
Good luck dude. I really hope things work out for the best. As others have said though, I would not really consider the Carib route. It's hard enough to get a residency as a Carib grad with great Step scores, but as one that had previously failed out of a US school, you'd have to ace everything, score high on the Steps, fill out a hundred apps, and get seriously lucky just to land a FM or Psych spot in rural Nebraska. Look into PA school, or possibly something other than medicine. My heart goes out to you, I can't even imagine how hard this time must be for you.
 
BestDoctorEver said:
I know one who was dismissed from a DO school after MS1, then went to carib and just about to finish his residency in IM. But I am sure case like this is probably rare...
Click to expand...

Yes and the application environment was very different 7-10 years ago
 
Wordead said:
Yes and the application environment was very different 7-10 years ago
Click to expand...
I know the environment is a lot different now, but if OP goes to the caribbean, finish with no issues and able to get 225+ in step1, it probably won't be difficult to find residency in psych IMO....Maybe I am too optimistic.
 
BestDoctorEver said:
I know the environment is a lot different now, but if OP goes to the caribbean, finish with no issues and able to get 225+ in step1, it probably won't be difficult to find residency in psych IMO....Maybe I am too optimistic.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the going rate for the bolded is ~ 30 % That's what I've been told by friends with siblings in the Caribbean. I don't go to school there so take that for what it's worth.
 
BestDoctorEver said:
@PL198... Not sure what you mean.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he means ~30% of people who enroll in Caribbean Degree Factories actually finish their 4 years without interruption, incident, or other difficulties.

The attrition rate tends to be fairly high. The schools plan for this. Or rather, the schools ensure this.
 
pmarank said:
I believe PA schools specifically look to screen out applicants that didn't finish med school
Click to expand...
You might be right... I know someone who finished med school in the Caribbean, passed step1 second attempt with a low score, but was able to pass step 2 and 3 with 220+ (1 attempt). After two unsuccessful attempt to match in FM, he called a couple a PA to schools to find out if he could enroll in them and they told him 'no'. I think they should find a way to let these people practice medicine; have them do a 1-year internship and let them be general practitioners.
 
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