Serious Institutional Action Question

[alexdowdti83]

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UPDATE (10/26/09):

I went to my school's registrar, brought up my official transcript, and nothing was there except my grades and placement exam scores. I asked the registrar what they considered "institutional action," and they say it was serious offenses like cheating, plagiarism, probation, etc., but not housing violations.
Being the paranoid person I am, I then called AMCAS and asked them what exactly they meant by institutional action. The representative on the phone said "we won't be able to tell you that, it's based upon your individual school." I then told her that about my conversation with the registrar, and she said, "well, based upon what your telling me, that's not an institutional action since your school doesn't officially count it as one."
So, should I just leave it off my AMCAS? Even if its not on my official transcript, is there a chance that my medical school (once accepted) could go back and do some digging around? Do schools even do this? I'm trying to approach this situation with integrity, but I don't want to have a negative light cast upon my application for something I didn't do. It just wouldn't be fair to all of the countless nights I spent in the library studying for my classes.

What would you do???

Original Post:

Hi,
So let me start off by saying that this question is not like the typical institutional action question, there are a few details you really have to consider.

I am a senior undergraduate at a private school who lived in school housing for the first two years, now living off-campus in my own apartment. The problem is that in my sophomore year, I lived in a 4 person room, with one of the roommates being a complete "random" that the school matched me up with. He was a good guy, but he had the habit of smoking pot on occasion, mainly when we were out of the dorm and we wouldn't yell at him for it (no one else in the dorm smoked anything whatsoever). We would tell him not to, but he would do it anyway.
Fast forward to the end of the year. My other two roommates are away, and I am hanging out in my room studying, while my pothead roommate is hanging out in his room. Little do I know that he is smoking out the window with a fan, until the RA comes knocking on our door and informs us that our neighbor smelt something funny. Of course, she decides to write both of us up since we both live together, despite not finding any evidence of anything other than smell.

I didn't think it'd be that big of a deal; I got a warning in my email a week later, saying not to do it again or I'd get further action. I wrote this long 2 page explanation of my innocence to housing, but I doubt they read any of it because they never replied, not to mention they write up hundreds of kids who are "innocent" every day.

Fast forward to now. I'm getting ready to apply to medical school pretty soon, and have just heard of this "institutional action" question asked by med schools.

Would this even count as an "action" since I just got an email? I didn't have to do community service, and this was just an RA that cited me with the housing services.

I'm honestly bitter about the whole thing; I've worked for years for my good grades and payed for them with blood, sweat, and tears, and then fate decided to give me the middle finger.

I don't even want to mention this on my AMCAS; med school's probably wouldn't believe me and think I'm just trying to pass it off as not me. I don't know what to do. Should I pretend like I did do it, and now am more responsible? Or just tell the truth, and deny it. If I was sitting in their shoes, I probably wouldn't believe it, and think the person is irresponsible for not "fessing up."

Needless to say I have since moved off campus with friends I can trust. I'm going to check with my school tomorrow if this is even on my conduct record. What would you do? Would I technically be correct in writing nothing, since no "action" was taken since it was a first offense? (remember I just received a warning).

Thanks in advance, and count your blessings that this never happened to you.

 

[halekulani]

i dont think warning writeups from RAs mean anything
but that's just me. i could be wrong.

 

[Mobius1985]

It's a good idea to visit a dean and see what's on your permanent record. Even if it's there, the fact that two years will have passed without further incident is in your favor. Further, you do get some space to explain, if an explanation is even needed. In the realm of institutional actions, this is relatively minor (compared to cheating or stealing, eg.).

 

[DirtyJustice]

Hi,
So let me start off by saying that this question is not like the typical institutional action question, there are a few details you really have to consider.


I am a senior undergraduate at a private school who lived in school housing for the first two years, now living off-campus in my own apartment. The problem is that in my sophomore year, I lived in a 4 person room, with one of the roommates being a complete "random" that the school matched me up with. He was a good guy, but he had the habit of smoking pot on occasion, mainly when we were out of the dorm and we wouldn't yell at him for it (no one else in the dorm smoked anything whatsoever). We would tell him not to, but he would do it anyway.
Fast forward to the end of the year. My other two roommates are away, and I am hanging out in my room studying, while my pothead roommate is hanging out in his room. Little do I know that he is smoking out the window with a fan, until the RA comes knocking on our door and informs us that our neighbor smelt something funny. Of course, she decides to write both of us up since we both live together, despite not finding any evidence of anything other than smell.

I didn't think it'd be that big of a deal; I got a warning in my email a week later, saying not to do it again or I'd get further action. I wrote this long 2 page explanation of my innocence to housing, but I doubt they read any of it because they never replied, not to mention they write up hundreds of kids who are "innocent" every day.

Fast forward to now. I'm getting ready to apply to medical school pretty soon, and have just heard of this "institutional action" question asked by med schools.

Would this even count as an "action" since I just got an email? I didn't have to do community service, and this was just an RA that cited me with the housing services.

I'm honestly bitter about the whole thing; I've worked for years for my good grades and payed for them with blood, sweat, and tears, and then fate decided to give me the middle finger.

I don't even want to mention this on my AMCAS; med school's probably wouldn't believe me and think I'm just trying to pass it off as not me. I don't know what to do. Should I pretend like I did do it, and now am more responsible? Or just tell the truth, and deny it. If I was sitting in their shoes, I probably wouldn't believe it, and think the person is irresponsible for not "fessing up."

Needless to say I have since moved off campus with friends I can trust. I'm going to check with my school tomorrow if this is even on my conduct record. What would you do? Would I technically be correct in writing nothing, since no "action" was taken since it was a first offense? (remember I just received a warning).

Thanks in advance, and count your blessings that this never happened to you.

Hello there,

I am myself a RA and have been for 3 years. If there is going to be serious institutional action you will have to meet with a dean or a representative (like a Residential Director) as stated by law.

In this meeting you will be shown the written account complied by the RA and you will be asked a series of questions and then and ONLY then can they say if you are responsible.

If you go to the meeting and tell the truth (that part is important) then you will not be held responsible.

Hope this helps.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

It's a good idea to visit a dean and see what's on your permanent record. Even if it's there, the fact that two years will have passed without further incident is in your favor. Further, you do get some space to explain, if an explanation is even needed. In the realm of institutional actions, this is relatively minor (compared to cheating or stealing, eg.).

+1

lots of times RA action is just a slap in the wrist. colleges aren't in the business of screwing their graduates over.

 

[just one]

You say fate gave you the middle finger when it was you and your other two roomates that gave fate the middle finger and you lost the gamble. When someone else breaks the law and puts you in the middle of it, it is up to you and you alone to protect yourself.
Just a pet peeve of mine. Man up, and just say I didn't protect my interests like I should of.
As far as on your record, I doubt it.

 

[alexdowdti83]

You say fate gave you the middle finger when it was you and your other two roomates that gave fate the middle finger and you lost the gamble. When someone else breaks the law and puts you in the middle of it, it is up to you and you alone to protect yourself.
Just a pet peeve of mine. Man up, and just say I didn't protect my interests like I should of.
As far as on your record, I doubt it.

I see your point. True enough, but it's not like he was doing this everyday and we were just allowing it to happen; like I said, we yelled at him a few times before and told him it was NOT OK, and then he had been good for almost all of the school year about not doing it (at least that we know of). This was literally during the last week of the year, when people were moving out.

I would of reported him if he kept it up, but A) he was cooperative and complied with us for months B) I'm not one to snitch on people and make a huge deal of things; it's only now I'm realizing how big of a problem this could be.

I appreciate all of your input, I'm going to check with the judicial office tomorrow morning and get back to you all, so I can take it from there.

 

[Josh22]

I just posted this on another thread -- but I think it's applicable here -- and this information might help you.

I heavily researched the "Institutional Action" issue because I myself was concerned about it. I was a chemical engineering major and my second semester of college I was on academic probation (at my school, having a GPA of less than a 2.5 constitutes academic probation). I was concerned that this was institutional action. I called AMCAS numerous times and every representative I asked stated the exact same thing: Institutional Action is when your institution is literally forced to take action as a result of something you have done. This was vague, so I asked for each AMCAS rep to elaborate and they each said something along the lines of, Call your undergraduate university and ask them if your academic probation was institutional action. If your university registrar says no, then AMCAS will not be doing any investigation. One woman I spoke to mentioned that institutional action to her meant a "cheating offense" or something that would constitute disciplinary action at your university (underage drinking).

The major point here is -- it varies by university. Call your registrar (I called mine) and they will tell you.

BTW - my academic probation was not considered institutional action. It was considered just a "warning". & I just was accepted EDP to a US MD school (MCG) there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even for those of us with a few black marks on our record!

Good luck!!

 

[littlealex]

I think you should relax. I was written up plenty of times for having alcohol in the dorms and I still got into med school.
When they say "institutional action" they meant you plagiarized someone's paper in class and got an F and had to meet with the Ethics Board and your dean. Some RA writing you up for something like pot is not going to get you into trouble. Hell, even if the police fined you for possession of pot you will still be okay.

 

[cicatrez879]

I think you should relax. I was written up plenty of times for having alcohol in the dorms and I still got into med school.
When they say "institutional action" they meant you plagiarized someone's paper in class and got an F and had to meet with the Ethics Board and your dean. Some RA writing you up for something like pot is not going to get you into trouble. Hell, even if the police fined you for possession of pot you will still be okay.

But I think the question he's getting at is did you admit to it?

 

[alexdowdti83]

I just posted this on another thread -- but I think it's applicable here -- and this information might help you.

I heavily researched the "Institutional Action" issue because I myself was concerned about it. I was a chemical engineering major and my second semester of college I was on academic probation (at my school, having a GPA of less than a 2.5 constitutes academic probation). I was concerned that this was institutional action. I called AMCAS numerous times and every representative I asked stated the exact same thing: Institutional Action is when your institution is literally forced to take action as a result of something you have done. This was vague, so I asked for each AMCAS rep to elaborate and they each said something along the lines of, Call your undergraduate university and ask them if your academic probation was institutional action. If your university registrar says no, then AMCAS will not be doing any investigation. One woman I spoke to mentioned that institutional action to her meant a "cheating offense" or something that would constitute disciplinary action at your university (underage drinking).

The major point here is -- it varies by university. Call your registrar (I called mine) and they will tell you.

BTW - my academic probation was not considered institutional action. It was considered just a "warning". & I just was accepted EDP to a US MD school, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even for those of us with a few black marks on our record!

Good luck!!

Thanks a lot Josh, that took a huge burden off my back. As someone that can relate to worrying about stuff like this, I'm truly happy you made it and it all worked out for you.

 

[slight365]

Hell, if this happened to me, I'd have gone to the dean and the RA's and request a drug/alcohol test. They have to be able to prove such a thing and I don't take a drug writeup lightly.

 

[JJMrK]

UPDATE (10/26/09):

I went to my school's registrar, brought up my official transcript, and nothing was there except my grades and placement exam scores. I asked the registrar what they considered "institutional action," and they say it was serious offenses like cheating, plagiarism, probation, etc., but not housing violations.
Being the paranoid person I am, I then called AMCAS and asked them what exactly they meant by institutional action. The representative on the phone said "we won't be able to tell you that, it's based upon your individual school." I then told her that about my conversation with the registrar, and she said, "well, based upon what your telling me, that's not an institutional action since your school doesn't officially count it as one."
So, should I just leave it off my AMCAS? Even if its not on my official transcript, is there a chance that my medical school (once accepted) could go back and do some digging around? Do schools even do this? I'm trying to approach this situation with integrity, but I don't want to have a negative light cast upon my application for something I didn't do. It just wouldn't be fair to all of the countless nights I spent in the library studying for my classes.

What would you do???

Original Post:

Hi,
So let me start off by saying that this question is not like the typical institutional action question, there are a few details you really have to consider.

I am a senior undergraduate at a private school who lived in school housing for the first two years, now living off-campus in my own apartment. The problem is that in my sophomore year, I lived in a 4 person room, with one of the roommates being a complete "random" that the school matched me up with. He was a good guy, but he had the habit of smoking pot on occasion, mainly when we were out of the dorm and we wouldn't yell at him for it (no one else in the dorm smoked anything whatsoever). We would tell him not to, but he would do it anyway.
Fast forward to the end of the year. My other two roommates are away, and I am hanging out in my room studying, while my pothead roommate is hanging out in his room. Little do I know that he is smoking out the window with a fan, until the RA comes knocking on our door and informs us that our neighbor smelt something funny. Of course, she decides to write both of us up since we both live together, despite not finding any evidence of anything other than smell.

I didn't think it'd be that big of a deal; I got a warning in my email a week later, saying not to do it again or I'd get further action. I wrote this long 2 page explanation of my innocence to housing, but I doubt they read any of it because they never replied, not to mention they write up hundreds of kids who are "innocent" every day.

Fast forward to now. I'm getting ready to apply to medical school pretty soon, and have just heard of this "institutional action" question asked by med schools.

Would this even count as an "action" since I just got an email? I didn't have to do community service, and this was just an RA that cited me with the housing services.

I'm honestly bitter about the whole thing; I've worked for years for my good grades and payed for them with blood, sweat, and tears, and then fate decided to give me the middle finger.

I don't even want to mention this on my AMCAS; med school's probably wouldn't believe me and think I'm just trying to pass it off as not me. I don't know what to do. Should I pretend like I did do it, and now am more responsible? Or just tell the truth, and deny it. If I was sitting in their shoes, I probably wouldn't believe it, and think the person is irresponsible for not "fessing up."

Needless to say I have since moved off campus with friends I can trust. I'm going to check with my school tomorrow if this is even on my conduct record. What would you do? Would I technically be correct in writing nothing, since no "action" was taken since it was a first offense? (remember I just received a warning).

Thanks in advance, and count your blessings that this never happened to you.

Not institutional action, IMO.

If you have housing violations that were not forwarded to someone at your school (ethics committee, dean of students, etc), it's probably not going to be on your transcript and I seriously doubt you would have to list it as an IA.

 

[flip26]

I got a warning in my email a week later, saying not to do it again or I'd get further action.

Who sent you this email?

I would go talk to this person to find out if you have something noted in a dean's file or something similar.

The mere fact that it is not noted on your transcript is irrelevant.

However, my gut tells me this is not an institutional action of the sort that AMCAS is asking about. Personally, I would not list it as such on AMCAS, because it will not necessarily kill your app, but it could get your app tossed into a "consider these later" pile, and they may not get back to you...

 

[bannie22]

lol are u serious?

my suitemates had a shared warning letter because we plastic wrapped up our smoke detectors because it kept going off when we were cooking. looolz. they thought we were smoking stuff in the rez... hahaa. until they dropped by after the winter holidays and realized who were there. we still receieved a letter as "paperwork requirements"

but if u did not say RA warning writeups I would NEVER have reecalled this... -.-

 

[alexdowdti83]

Just spoke with the Dean of students today, and confirmed that it is not an Institutional Action. 👍👍👍


He said that if it had involved lying, cheating, plagiarism, or any serious situation then yes, but not in this case.

...and life goes on....

 

[flip26]

Just spoke with the Dean of students today, and confirmed that it is not an Institutional Action. 👍👍👍


He said that if it had involved lying, cheating, plagiarism, or any serious situation then yes, but not in this case.

...and life goes on....

You have cause to celebrate. Smoke some pot in your dorm room...