Sexism in Medicine

[Burnted_out]

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Why is it so frequent that when a young, small female physician walks into a patient room, there is an assumption that it's the nurse? Today I walked into this patient's room, he's on the phone and tells the person I'll call you back, the nurse is here. Really?

Another woman I saw seeing and saw several times, tells her daughter when I come in, oh this is the doctor's nurse. WTH? Yes I know what many will say, it does not matter, bla bl a bla but yes it does. I have spent just as much if not more time training to be called a nurse. It's so frustrating. Why is there such a ridiculous assumption? Is everyone sexist? Demented? Simple? What is it?

 

[OddNath]

https://gomerblog.com/2018/11/area-female-physician-changes-first-name-to-doctor/

 

[OddNath]

Yes I’ve also had this happen more times than I can count. It really does sting every time.

 

[Burnted_out]

Yes I’ve also had this happen more times than I can count. It really does sting every time.

I make it uncomfortable for patients at times so they don’t forget. One douche tells his wife oh a very important therapist is here. I tell him I’m not the therapist I’m the doctor. Then he’s like oh I’m sorry for the insult.
Some clerk at this new hospital I occasionally see patients at takes me to see a nurse that I want to talk to and she says oh “first name” has a question. So I say, no Dr so and so, not “ first name”. WTH? It’s so frustrating. Some other wound doc that works at one of our facilities the other day is like oh I didn’t get your name. I’m like oh I’m so and so (first name since I figure all physicians know they are physicians and know not to call themselves doctor when talking to another physician) and he says oh I’m doctor so and so. I was like

 

[deleted480308]

Why is it so frequent that when a young, small female physician walks into a patient room, there is an assumption that it's the nurse? Today I walked into this patient's room, he's on the phone and tells the person I'll call you back, the nurse is here. Really?

Another woman I saw seeing and saw several times, tells her daughter when I come in, oh this is the doctor's nurse. WTH? Yes I know what many will say, it does not matter, bla bl a bla but yes it does. I have spent just as much if not more time training to be called a nurse. It's so frustrating. Why is there such a ridiculous assumption? Is everyone sexist? Demented? Simple? What is it?

Statistics and maybe sexism. Nurses outnumber docs by a large margin. Nurses are overwhelmingly women. Doctors as a whole are more likely male and it’s only been recently that med school classes became 50/50ish along gender lines.

If a woman walks into a patient’s room it actually is more likely that they are a nurse than a doctor given the staff numbers in the hospital. If a patient is just going off likelihood it’s an annoying assumption, if they sincerely don’t think a woman has a chance of being a doctor (unlikely many actually think that) then it’s sexist

 

[Burnted_out]

Statistics and maybe sexism. Nurses outnumber docs by a large margin. Nurses are overwhelmingly women. Doctors as a whole are more likely male and it’s only been recently that med school classes became 50/50ish along gender lines.

If a woman walks into a patient’s room it actually is more likely that they are a nurse than a doctor given the staff numbers in the hospital. If a patient is just going off likelihood it’s an annoying assumption, if they sincerely don’t think a woman has a chance of being a doctor (unlikely many actually think that) then it’s sexist

If you say hi I’m doctor Burned out nice to meet you how is it so difficult to remember that? I’ll give the very old or demented patients a pass but come on! Even several of the female nurses were like are you the NP when I started my gig. I’m like no I’m Dr so and so. Goodness!

 

[Crayola227]

Why is it so frequent that when a young, small female physician walks into a patient room, there is an assumption that it's the nurse? Today I walked into this patient's room, he's on the phone and tells the person I'll call you back, the nurse is here. Really?

Another woman I saw seeing and saw several times, tells her daughter when I come in, oh this is the doctor's nurse. WTH? Yes I know what many will say, it does not matter, bla bl a bla but yes it does. I have spent just as much if not more time training to be called a nurse. It's so frustrating. Why is there such a ridiculous assumption? Is everyone sexist? Demented? Simple? What is it?

I'm only really frustrated when it happens when I'm wearing my white coat. Which is one reason I despise that it's being worn by everyone in the hospital, and that docs are eschewing it. Police officers wear a gorram uniform, darn it. Usually the coat helps, but the fact that the perception of my gender overpowers that of the coat, really frakking bugs me.

 

[vhawk]

Why is it so frequent that when a young, small female physician walks into a patient room, there is an assumption that it's the nurse? Today I walked into this patient's room, he's on the phone and tells the person I'll call you back, the nurse is here. Really?

Another woman I saw seeing and saw several times, tells her daughter when I come in, oh this is the doctor's nurse. WTH? Yes I know what many will say, it does not matter, bla bl a bla but yes it does. I have spent just as much if not more time training to be called a nurse. It's so frustrating. Why is there such a ridiculous assumption? Is everyone sexist? Demented? Simple? What is it?

Its probably because most people are basically decent at math

 

[vhawk]

I'm only really frustrated when it happens when I'm wearing my white coat. Which is one reason I despise that it's being worn by everyone in the hospital, and that docs are eschewing it. Police officers wear a gorram uniform, darn it. Usually the coat helps, but the fact that the perception of my gender overpowers that of the coat, really frakking bugs me.

If a woman walks into their room wearing a white coat, at least in most hospitals I have been in, it is STILL the most likely case that that person is a nurse (or NP, or PA) and not their doctor.

I mean sure I guess sexism may play a part in it, to some degree, but je n'ai pas eu besoin de cette hypothèse

 

[Crayola227]

If a woman walks into their room wearing a white coat, at least in most hospitals I have been in, it is STILL the most likely case that that person is a nurse (or NP, or PA) and not their doctor.

I mean sure I guess sexism may play a part in it, to some degree, but je n'ai pas eu besoin de cette hypothèse

Your first point is true, which bugs me. However, when this has happened to me, it has happened in places where the coat was still mostly exclusive to docs.

I mean, as much as we've talked about the coat not overpowering perceptions of female health care workers, on the other hand, I've seen the argument that docs should wear their coat when dealing with the demented, delirious, elderly, maybe even psychotic. I've definitely been PROPERLY identified as a doc by white coat alone, by almost vegetables. Getting into symbols and uniforms and such, we talk about how yes/no, cursing, head shaking, other types of knowledge/behaviour are retained in the brain as it basically disintegrates in dementia for example, it's pretty powerful to me that the white coat and stethoscope are symbols that have actually been internalized to the degree that one can see.

TLDR on that: if an Alzheimer's patient that is actually from the days when women weren't docs, that doesn't remember their own family's names, can identify that I'm a doctor by my white coat, then what is with other people? They may not be processing things on that simple symbolic level. White coat = doctor is internalized as a symbol in the brain in a way that learned unconscious gender prejudice is not?

I know I'm not talking crazy talk on the importance of symbols to the unconscious mind. And whether or not we consider women as doctors vs nurses absolutely is a cultural construct and hence a learned gender prejudice, as seen in cultural anthropology where in some cultures one would always assume that a "shaman" or other healer is a woman, because that is how they manage gender roles and other roles in the society.

You seriously don't think there's sexism at play here? Especially male docs in white coats vs females in white coats?

I think my point being, that by numbers alone, it might be reasonable to assume "unlabeled" women in healthcare coming in your room are nurses not docs, since there is a skew for gender for nursing and other types of ancillary staff. This sort of thought processing may be what's at work, and may account for my personal theories about this, learned vs symbolic mental constructs fall away in other illnesses affecting the brain and that affects perception of the coat and women.

So the real issue for me isn't being taken as a nurse when I walk in a room because I'm a woman. It's that wearing a "doctor" costume doesn't do it. It should. It could.

 

[Crayola227]

What I don't understand, is why does everyone act like this isn't a reality?

How many times as a male are you in a white coat and someone assumes you're a nurse or not a doctor?

Sure, we can act like gender has nothing to do with any of this. I'm calling BS.

 

[Apollyon]

If a woman walks into their room wearing a white coat, at least in most hospitals I have been in, it is STILL the most likely case that that person is a nurse (or NP, or PA) and not their doctor.

I mean sure I guess sexism may play a part in it, to some degree, but je n'ai pas eu besoin de cette hypothèse

Pourquoi est-ce que vous utilisez la français?

 

[vhawk]

What I don't understand, is why does everyone act like this isn't a reality?

How many times as a male are you in a white coat and someone assumes you're a nurse or not a doctor?

Sure, we can act like gender has nothing to do with any of this. I'm calling BS.

Again, if I am a male in a room, wearing a white coat, the odds are OVERWHELMINGLY that I am their doctor. If I am a woman in their room, in a white coat, it is actually UNLIKELY that I am their doctor. I dont know of a way to test whether this is due to sexism or not, it may be, all I know is that, from a parsimony standpoint, sexism is entirely unnecessary. Simply understanding that humans are beings of pattern recognition solves basically the ENTIRE problem for me. Could it be pattern recognition PLUS celestial teapots? Sure.

I dont know what to say, I dont have the "street cred" needed to make this argument. I am a young, healthy, above average height, well-dressed white male wearing a white coat and walking around like I own the place. The number of people, in the history of medicine, who have walked into patients rooms, looking like me, who ARENT doctors, can probably be counted on the toes of a non-compliant diabetic. I get that.

 

[vhawk]

Pourquoi est-ce que vous utilisez la français?

At least to dorks like me, its a very famous phrase, by a personal hero

 

[vhawk]

Your first point is true, which bugs me. However, when this has happened to me, it has happened in places where the coat was still mostly exclusive to docs.

I mean, as much as we've talked about the coat not overpowering perceptions of female health care workers, on the other hand, I've seen the argument that docs should wear their coat when dealing with the demented, delirious, elderly, maybe even psychotic. I've definitely been PROPERLY identified as a doc by white coat alone, by almost vegetables. Getting into symbols and uniforms and such, we talk about how yes/no, cursing, head shaking, other types of knowledge/behaviour are retained in the brain as it basically disintegrates in dementia for example, it's pretty powerful to me that the white coat and stethoscope are symbols that have actually been internalized to the degree that one can see.

TLDR on that: if an Alzheimer's patient that is actually from the days when women weren't docs, that doesn't remember their own family's names, can identify that I'm a doctor by my white coat, then what is with other people? They may not be processing things on that simple symbolic level. White coat = doctor is internalized as a symbol in the brain in a way that learned unconscious gender prejudice is not?

I know I'm not talking crazy talk on the importance of symbols to the unconscious mind. And whether or not we consider women as doctors vs nurses absolutely is a cultural construct and hence a learned gender prejudice, as seen in cultural anthropology where in some cultures one would always assume that a "shaman" or other healer is a woman, because that is how they manage gender roles and other roles in the society.

You seriously don't think there's sexism at play here? Especially male docs in white coats vs females in white coats?

I think my point being, that by numbers alone, it might be reasonable to assume "unlabeled" women in healthcare coming in your room are nurses not docs, since there is a skew for gender for nursing and other types of ancillary staff. This sort of thought processing may be what's at work, and may account for my personal theories about this, learned vs symbolic mental constructs fall away in other illnesses affecting the brain and that affects perception of the coat and women.

So the real issue for me isn't being taken as a nurse when I walk in a room because I'm a woman. It's that wearing a "doctor" costume doesn't do it. It should. It could.

If I walk into an elementary school, you can bet your ass people are 10x more skeptical of me and suspicious than they would be of a woman. If I walk into an elementary school with an ID badge....this doesnt change much.

 

[Apollyon]

At least to dorks like me, its a very famous phrase, by a personal hero

De dire qu'il est trés celebre, je ne le connais pas.

 

[vhawk]

De dire qu'il est trés celebre, je ne le connais pas.

maybe you should read a book sometime 😎

 

[Stagg737]

What I don't understand, is why does everyone act like this isn't a reality?

How many times as a male are you in a white coat and someone assumes you're a nurse or not a doctor?

Sure, we can act like gender has nothing to do with any of this. I'm calling BS.

I think the better question would be how many times does a male PA or NP walk in with a white coat and get mistaken for a physician? Physicians have historically been overwhelmingly males until the last 15-20 years. So for any patient over 40 I think it'll still be an idea ingrained in their sub-conscious to an almost reflexive level, even if it's outdated.

Same goes for the idea that long white coat = doctor. I can't count the number of times I've had to explain to patients that they were not actually seen by the physician yet because the NP/PA/pharmacist/charge nurse/technician who saw them was wearing a long white coat too.

The number of people, in the history of medicine, who have walked into patients rooms, looking like me, who ARENT doctors, can probably be counted on the toes of a non-compliant diabetic. I get that.

Now that everyone under the sun, including PAs, pharmacists, and techs wear long white coats, I don't think this is true anymore...

 

[Apollyon]

maybe you should read a book sometime 😎

Baisez mon cul (!)

I had a French minor in college (just a scant 7 classes short of a double major). That just does not ring a bell (with me, at least).

 

[Burnted_out]

Its probably because most people are basically decent at math

What? I don’t get it.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Baisez mon cul (!)

I had a French minor in college (just a scant 7 classes short of a double major). That just does not ring a bell (with me, at least).

It's a quote by Laplace, a man widely known more for his math than his witticisms. Had to Google it as well. I guess we cant all be as worldly as our saucy colleague vhawk here.

 

[Burnted_out]

Again, if I am a male in a room, wearing a white coat, the odds are OVERWHELMINGLY that I am their doctor. If I am a woman in their room, in a white coat, it is actually UNLIKELY that I am their doctor. I dont know of a way to test whether this is due to sexism or not, it may be, all I know is that, from a parsimony standpoint, sexism is entirely unnecessary. Simply understanding that humans are beings of pattern recognition solves basically the ENTIRE problem for me. Could it be pattern recognition PLUS celestial teapots? Sure.

I dont know what to say, I dont have the "street cred" needed to make this argument. I am a young, healthy, above average height, well-dressed white male wearing a white coat and walking around like I own the place. The number of people, in the history of medicine, who have walked into patients rooms, looking like me, who ARENT doctors, can probably be counted on the toes of a non-compliant diabetic. I get that.

The other day I handled a horrible situation like a champ - a situation which one of my wonderful male colleagues should have dealt with. Anyhow, one of the family members of the patient in question says I'm going to talk to the doctor - as I'm standing there, wearing my white coat. I got annoyed and said well I don't know who you are going to talk to, because I"M the doctor. The person you are going to talk to outside the room is the NURSE! The nurse was a dude, who is not white in this case since you are talking about being a white male, who was in nursing scrubs! I think it's sexism plain and simple.
And even if you don't know who someone is, if someone says hi I'm doctor so and so - is it so hard to believe that they are doctor so and so? It should not be.

 

[vhawk]

Baisez mon cul (!)

I had a French minor in college (just a scant 7 classes short of a double major). That just does not ring a bell (with me, at least).

Its what pierre simone laplace said to napoleon when he presented his treatise on the motion of bodies in the solar system, and Napoleon said that the science was fascinating but he didnt see God mentioned anywhere.

 

[vhawk]

What? I don’t get it.

Do you know what a black swan is? Do you know what Hume said about sunrises?


Man im a dick sometimes

 

[Lawpy]

It's a quote by Laplace. A man widely known more for his math than his witticisms. Had to Google it as well. I guess we cant all be as worldly as our saucy colleague vhawk here.

Its what pierre simone laplace said to napoleon when he presented his treatise on the motion of bodies in the solar system, and Napoleon said that the science was fascinating but he didnt see God mentioned anywhere.

Good to see Laplace references on SDN 👍

 

[vhawk]

I think the better question would be how many times does a male PA or NP walk in with a white coat and get mistaken for a physician? Physicians have historically been overwhelmingly males until the last 15-20 years. So for any patient over 40 I think it'll still be an idea ingrained in their sub-conscious to an almost reflexive level, even if it's outdated.

Same goes for the idea that long white coat = doctor. I can't count the number of times I've had to explain to patients that they were not actually seen by the physician yet because the NP/PA/pharmacist/charge nurse/technician who saw them was wearing a long white coat too.



Now that everyone under the sun, including PAs, pharmacists, and techs wear long white coats, I don't think this is true anymore...

Thats because youve never seen me walk around like i own the place

 

[vhawk]

It's a quote by Laplace, a man widely known more for his math than his witticisms. Had to Google it as well. I guess we cant all be as worldly as our saucy colleague vhawk here.

Its one of the greatest mic drops in history, bro, both for its brutality and even more so for in whoms face said mic was dropped

 

[vhawk]

Can only imagine when laplace dropped that bomb on the midget who had managed to conquer more of the known world than anyone else in history, he did the Dougie while slowly backing out the command tent

 

[Burnted_out]

Do you know what a black swan is? Do you know what Hume said about sunrises?


Man im a dick sometimes

I agree with your latter statement. Yes I know what a black swan is. To suggest women in Medicine are a black swan is ridiculous. I have no idea about your statement about Hume.

 

[BoardingDoc]

who had managed to conquer more of the known world than anyone else in history

Genghis Kahn would like a word with you.

 

[vhawk]

I agree with your latter statement. Yes I know what a black swan is. To suggest women in Medicine are a black swan is ridiculous. I have no idea about your statement about Hume.

Im saying people make inferences based on the reality they experience. And in fact they are very good at doing so. Despite the fact that, strictly speaking, there is no logical reason to expect the sun to come up tomorrow, everyone on earth does, based on inductive reasoning, and ill wager they are correct.

This is the enemy you are fighting, this finely honed, but imperfect, human tendency to observe reality and draw conclusions from that reality.

Many humans will attempt to suborn these inductive reasoning skills to whatever ideological trend is de rigeur at the moment (in this case whatever feminism i guess) but ultimately success is limited

 

[vhawk]

Genghis Kahn would like a word with you.

Literally thought that exact thing while typing that and was like "no one is gonna nitpick this eurocentrism in a thread about sexism in medicine right" and just decided to go with it anyway

Why didnt you point out that napoleon wasnt ACTUALLY short (above average for the time and just a myth started by the english to discredit him) too?!?!?!?

 

[Burnted_out]

Im saying people make inferences based on the reality they experience. And in fact they are very good at doing so. Despite the fact that, strictly speaking, there is no logical reason to expect the sun to come up tomorrow, everyone on earth does, based on inductive reasoning, and ill wager they are correct.

This is the enemy you are fighting, this finely honed, but imperfect, human tendency to observe reality and draw conclusions from that reality.

Many humans will attempt to suborn these inductive reasoning skills to whatever ideological trend is de rigeur at the moment (in this case whatever feminism i guess) but ultimately success is limited

A lot of typing, but much nonsense. Plain and simple - people tend to be simple and sexist. Why males are doctors, and females even when not nurses are nurses. And when a female says i'm doctor so and so if people weren't sexist, then they would recall that's their physician.

 

[vhawk]

A lot of typing, but much nonsense. Plain and simple - people tend to be simple and sexist. Why males are doctors, and females even when not nurses are nurses. And when a female says i'm doctor so and so if people weren't sexist, then they would recall that's their physician.

so when you were asking if it was sexist, that was just a ruse then? You just meant it WAS sexist, and everyone absolutely must agree with you?

I am not so misanthropic as to find comfort in the belief that "people tend to be simple and sexist." And when you say people, there....do you just mean men? Do you think women are also simple and sexist? Because....thats a pretty misogynistic, simple and sexist view to hold.

 

[vhawk]

I feel you arent really taking into consideration the power dynamics involved here at all. your patients are a vulnerable population, and you have immense (unearned) privilege being the physician, the one who DOESNT have the disease here. Its actually really problematic for you to be calling into question the lived experience of this vulnerable, oppressed group. Honestly, your entire thread is basically violence.

 

[Burnted_out]

I feel you arent really taking into consideration the power dynamics involved here at all. your patients are a vulnerable population, and you have immense (unearned) privilege being the physician, the one who DOESNT have the disease here. Its actually really problematic for you to be calling into question the lived experience of this vulnerable, oppressed group. Honestly, your entire thread is basically violence.

You seem to be mentally off. I hope you are just being a jerk rather than being serious. I am now going to stop responding to you. I hope your day gets better.

 

[vhawk]

You seem to be mentally off. I hope you are just being a jerk rather than being serious. I am now going to stop responding to you. I hope your day gets better.

Very problematic

 

[Crayola227]

If I walk into an elementary school, you can bet your ass people are 10x more skeptical of me and suspicious than they would be of a woman. If I walk into an elementary school with an ID badge....this doesnt change much.

It's still bias and it still pisses me off (the bit about males in a school). Sorta like the jokes about male nurses.

The point about what difference does a badge make vs these sorts of gender biases, I'm telling you, and you don't have to believe me, the "costume" makes all the difference. There really isn't one for elementary school teachers that I'm aware.

If you walked into that school in a firefighter's gear, or a policeman's uniform, heck even the cafeteria staff outfit, or looking like a janitor, it would absolutely make a difference re: suspicion

 

[vhawk]

It's still bias and it still pisses me off. Sorta like the jokes about male nurses.

The point about what difference does a badge make vs these sorts of gender biases, I'm telling you, and you don't have to believe me, the "costume" makes all the difference. There really isn't one for elementary school teachers that I'm aware.

If you walked into that school in a firefighter's gear, or a policeman's uniform, heck even the cafeteria staff outfit, or looking like a janitor, it would absolutely make a difference re: suspicion

What does bias mean to you exactly? Its inference. Is bias just "overly exuberant inference?" I'm fairly certain that if you asked all these patients who assume you are a nurse "do you think a lady doctor can doctor just as well as a real (male) doctor?" they would mostly say yes. They dont think you cant be a doctor because you are a woman. They think you PROBABLY ARENT a doctor, because you are a woman. And....they are usually gonna be right.

Maybe we should start criticizing nursing programs that seem to be aggressively discriminating against male applicants by graduating classes that are 90% women?

 

[Crayola227]

What does bias mean to you exactly? Its inference. Is bias just "overly exuberant inference?" I'm fairly certain that if you asked all these patients who assume you are a nurse "do you think a lady doctor can doctor just as well as a real (male) doctor?" they would mostly say yes. They dont think you cant be a doctor because you are a woman. They think you PROBABLY ARENT a doctor, because you are a woman. And....they are usually gonna be right.

Maybe we should start criticizing nursing programs that seem to be aggressively discriminating against male applicants by graduating classes that are 90% women?

I'm essentially saying why the assumption? It doesn't actually make sense to me, because I NEVER see NURSES come in a white coat. NEVER NEVER NEVER. I even point this out to people. It makes everyone frown.

When they think I'm phlebotomy, I get it. I assume it's the costume and not the gender.

I'm calling BS on the idea that it's simply a numerical error.

Again, why do they see the gender come in the room "oh look a woman has come into my room, it's a nurse!" and not "oh look, someone in a white coat, that doesn't look like any nurse I've had in my 14 day hospital stay, I bet it's someone else!"

Your point is that my gender overrides all other reasonable points and assumptions.

I don't think it comes from a conscious place of not thinking/recognizing women as physicians. And I'm calling BS on the numbers game. I think there's more to the internalized assumption that women are nurses not physicians. You say it isn't due to some ingrained sense of power dynamics and gender. I don't buy this.

 

[Crayola227]

Later if I have energy I'll rant about how people take it when you correct them on your title.

 

[vhawk]

I'm essentially saying why the assumption? It doesn't actually make sense to me, because I NEVER see NURSES come in a white coat. NEVER NEVER NEVER. I even point this out to people. It makes everyone frown.

When they think I'm phlebotomy, I get it. I assume it's the costume and not the gender.

I'm calling BS on the idea that it's simply a numerical error.

Again, why do they see the gender come in the room "oh look a woman has come into my room, it's a nurse!" and not "oh look, someone in a white coat, that doesn't look like any nurse I've had in my 14 day hospital stay, I bet it's someone else!"

Your point is that my gender overrides all other reasonable points and assumptions.

I don't think it comes from a conscious place of not thinking/recognizing women as physicians. And I'm calling BS on the numbers game. I think there's more to the internalized assumption that women are nurses not physicians. You say it isn't due to some ingrained sense of power dynamics and gender. I don't buy this.

Ok, so lets say I'm wrong. What...exactly....do you think the motivation is otherwise? What is your alternative explanation? They just hate women SO MUCH (despite the fact that, half the time, they ARE women) that they just absolutely refuse to acknowledge that you are a doctor, even when they know in their hearts you must be?

I'm not saying it ISNT from some "ingrained sense of power dynamics and gender." I'm saying that is an UNNECESSARY stipulation when you consider that they could just be good at math. Maybe they are good at math, know you are likely to be a nurse based on gender, but then do the calculations and realize, hey, she is wearing a white coat, and introduced herself as Dr. Crayola, odds are she is probably a Dr.......but I mean, I ****ing HATE WOMEN so I dont even care, I'm calling her nurse."

You are threading the needle pretty thinly here with this theory, I gotta say.

 

[DokterMom]

Statistics and maybe sexism. Nurses outnumber docs by a large margin. Nurses are overwhelmingly women. Doctors as a whole are more likely male and it’s only been recently that med school classes became 50/50ish along gender lines.

If a woman walks into a patient’s room it actually is more likely that they are a nurse than a doctor given the staff numbers in the hospital. If a patient is just going off likelihood it’s an annoying assumption, if they sincerely don’t think a woman has a chance of being a doctor (unlikely many actually think that) then it’s sexist

If a woman walks into their room wearing a white coat, at least in most hospitals I have been in, it is STILL the most likely case that that person is a nurse (or NP, or PA) and not their doctor.

I mean sure I guess sexism may play a part in it, to some degree, but je n'ai pas eu besoin de cette hypothèse

Thanks for mansplaining that to us --
I guess we probably should have been able to figure that out if only we weren't so bad at math...? 😵

 

[vhawk]

Thanks for mansplaining that to us --
I guess we probably should have been able to figure that out if only we weren't so bad at math...? 😵

Exactly!

But seriously have you even considered how seriously problematic it is for you to be sitting here, from your position of MASSIVE privilege, and criticizing the lived experience of patients, who are extremely vulnerable, lives at risk, hopeless, powerless, with no way to defend themselves against whatever capricious way you happen to interact with them? I mean, can they even consent?

 

[Burnted_out]

Thanks for mansplaining that to us --
I guess we probably should have been able to figure that out if only we weren't so bad at math...? 😵

Lol.

 

[Crayola227]

Ok, so lets say I'm wrong. What...exactly....do you think the motivation is otherwise? What is your alternative explanation? They just hate women SO MUCH (despite the fact that, half the time, they ARE women) that they just absolutely refuse to acknowledge that you are a doctor, even when they know in their hearts you must be?

I'm not saying it ISNT from some "ingrained sense of power dynamics and gender." I'm saying that is an UNNECESSARY stipulation when you consider that they could just be good at math. Maybe they are good at math, know you are likely to be a nurse based on gender, but then do the calculations and realize, hey, she is wearing a white coat, and introduced herself as Dr. Crayola, odds are she is probably a Dr.......but I mean, I ****ing HATE WOMEN so I dont even care, I'm calling her nurse."

You are threading the needle pretty thinly here with this theory, I gotta say.

I'm not saying it's anything like that.

It partly has to do with with numbers, sure. I guess the question is that are there any other reasons for the assumption? And, let's say numbers birthed the assumption. Are there other assumptions being attached to that to create a theory behind the observation?

What kind of reasoning is that called? I'm too tired for formal logic.

There's a sort of surprise that I don't understand when I explain what's going on that concerns me. It doesn't feel like a numbers game.

It's been pretty rare in my life that I felt like I was being treated as anything less than equal to a man (that doesn't mean I'm not used to being treated differently, and I'm OK with that concept) or that I was and was surprised by it. I've basically taken it for granted and have felt pretty insulated from sexism as one might say.

And I'm doing maybe not the best job of logically supporting it, but there is a sorta shock to a "woman in power", and I'm not positing any bad guys. But it does disturb me.

 

[vhawk]

Do you even intersectionalism, sis?

 

[vhawk]

I'm not saying it's anything like that.

It partly has to do with with numbers, sure. I guess the question is that are there any other reasons for the assumption? And, let's say numbers birthed the assumption. Are there other assumptions being attached to that to create a theory behind the observation?

What kind of reasoning is that called? I'm too tired for formal logic.

There's a sort of surprise that I don't understand when I explain what's going on that concerns me. It doesn't feel like a numbers game.

It's been pretty rare in my life that I felt like I was being treated as anything less than equal to a man (that doesn't mean I'm not used to being treated differently, and I'm OK with that concept) or that I was and was surprised by it. I've basically taken it for granted and have felt pretty insulated from sexism as one might say.

And I'm doing maybe not the best job of logically supporting it, but there is a sorta shock to a "woman in power", and I'm not positing any bad guys. But it does disturb me.

I dont understand the question

 

[Stagg737]

I'm essentially saying why the assumption? It doesn't actually make sense to me, because I NEVER see NURSES come in a white coat. NEVER NEVER NEVER. I even point this out to people. It makes everyone frown.

Come work at my hospital. Charge nurses and floor managers both wear white coats. I felt like I'd finally earned my white coat for all of 2 minutes at the start of the year. I've stopped wearing mine whenever possible because it's just completely pointless where I'm at.

Thanks for mansplaining that to us --
I guess we probably should have been able to figure that out if only we weren't so bad at math...? 😵

Can I roll my eyes harder at this? Nope. I also find it interesting you only quoted the men who supported that argument and not the woman in the thread who did. Biased much?

 

[deleted480308]

Thanks for mansplaining that to us --
I guess we probably should have been able to figure that out if only we weren't so bad at math...? 😵

I don’t think gender is the reason OP is bad at recognizing the math, but they are nonetheless

Me being a man doesn’t negate the math