SGU medical school and residencies

[Black Mamba Gene]

avg gpa for incoming SGU students is a 3.4
avg mcat for incoming SGU students on old scale is a 26

in 2018, 900+ students matched. 93% of the people who applied for residencies matched

900/1200 that started. That is very good, since a lot of students drop out due to not working hard, not being able to handle the island life, etc.

Furthermore, I read this from their website:
"The available residency positions are increasing in the US. The 2018 National Resident Matching Program (NRMP) saw a 4.8% increase over 2017 with 1,383 more PGY1 positions—quelling fears that residencies are becoming unavailable. The available residencies have been growing for 16 consecutive years; more than 9,500 have been added since 2002.

The Match rates of international medical graduates (IMGs) going through the NRMP’s Match were the highest in 25 years—56.5% matched, up from 53.4% last year. For US citizen IMGs, the rate was 57.1%. This percentage has risen 13 of the last 15 years. It should be noted that SGU’s US 2018 current residency obtainment rate for eligible current-year graduates for PGY1 positions—in and out of the Match—is 87%."

My question is, since the residency positions are increasing every single year, is going to SGU medical school (#1 Caribbean med school) a very bad decision still?

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[getdown]

First of all, residency positions in the US are not increasing much. At least not the extent to cover the increasing number of graduating US med school seniors especially with the DO merger happening soon.

Caribbean is a bad decision overall unless it's your last resort and then at that point you have nothing to lose.

Also, FIRST and in before flame war.

 

[ciestar]

Yes bad idea.

Yay another Carib thread

 

[Black Mamba Gene]

First of all, residency positions in the US are not increasing much. At least not the extent to cover the increasing number of graduating US med school seniors especially with the DO merger happening soon.

Caribbean is a bad decision overall unless it's your last resort and then at that point you have nothing to lose.

Also, FIRST and in before flame war.

Ten Year Projections for US Residency Positions: Will There be Enough Positions to Accommodate the Growing Number of U.S. Medical School Graduates? - PubMed - NCBI
I read this article too published in 2017

"
CONCLUSIONS:

Despite the increasing number of medical school graduates, our model suggests the rate of growth of residency positions continues to be higher than the rate of growth of U.S. medical school graduates. While there is no apparent shortage of categorical positions overall, highly competitive subspecialties like orthopedics may develop a shortage within the next ten years."

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

in 2018, 900+ students matched. 93% of the people who applied for residencies matched

900/1200 that started. That is very good, since a lot of students drop out due to not working hard, not being able to handle the island life, etc.

What they don't tell you (and trust us, there is a LOT they don't tell you) is that the number of matched is not just seniors. It includes graduates. So no, 900/1200 did not make it to residency.

The 4.8% increase in residencies is helped by many of the DO programs that have converted over. That is not the normal increase. Residency growth is largely nonexistent.


tldr. yes it is a very bad idea.

 

[Isoval]

First of all, residency positions in the US are not increasing much. At least not the extent to cover the increasing number of graduating US med school seniors especially with the DO merger happening soon.

Caribbean is a bad decision overall unless it's your last resort and then at that point you have nothing to lose.

Also, FIRST and in before flame war.

Except hundreds of thousands in loan dollars.

 

[getdown]

Ten Year Projections for US Residency Positions: Will There be Enough Positions to Accommodate the Growing Number of U.S. Medical School Graduates? - PubMed - NCBI
I read this article too published in 2017

"
CONCLUSIONS:

Despite the increasing number of medical school graduates, our model suggests the rate of growth of residency positions continues to be higher than the rate of growth of U.S. medical school graduates. While there is no apparent shortage of categorical positions overall, highly competitive subspecialties like orthopedics may develop a shortage within the next ten years."

I don't have access to the article but it doesn't seem to take into account the upcoming DO merger. The ultimate question has never been about the actual matching itself but matching into your preferred specialty and/or at your preferred location. Obviously there are even spots open now that IMGs fill but those are low tier IM/FM/psych spots in the middle of nowhere. No US graduate would actually go to those spots. If you're ok doing residency in those fields or those locations then go to SGU if you want.

 

[getdown]

Except hundreds of thousands in loan dollars.

What's a couple of hundred thousand in debt for a chance to wear that short white coat? I'm sure it's all worth it.

 

[Black Mamba Gene]

I don't have access to the article but it doesn't seem to take into account the upcoming DO merger. The ultimate question has never been about the actual matching itself but matching into your preferred specialty and/or at your preferred location. Obviously there are even spots open now that IMGs fill but those are low tier IM/FM/psych spots in the middle of nowhere. No US graduate would actually go to those spots. If you're ok doing residency in those fields or those locations then go to SGU if you want.

if the end goal is to become a physician, I don't think it depends on where you get a residency, even if its in the middle of nowhere.

im not looking to go to SGU, but was just curious about this data

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Ten Year Projections for US Residency Positions: Will There be Enough Positions to Accommodate the Growing Number of U.S. Medical School Graduates? - PubMed - NCBI
I read this article too published in 2017

"
CONCLUSIONS:

Despite the increasing number of medical school graduates, our model suggests the rate of growth of residency positions continues to be higher than the rate of growth of U.S. medical school graduates. While there is no apparent shortage of categorical positions overall, highly competitive subspecialties like orthopedics may develop a shortage within the next ten years."

Did you actually read the article? It's a crap study because it literally is only talking about USMD schools, and neglects the soon to be 8000 USDO students. With the merger pending and every DO applying through the NRMP system there is definitely a squeeze coming.

 

[Black Mamba Gene]

Did you actually read the article? It's a crap study because it literally is only talking about USMD schools, and neglects the soon to be 8000 USDO students. With the merger pending and every DO applying through the NRMP system there is definitely a squeeze coming.

DOs have residencies (AOA) too that will be merged together with the MD residencies. you are acting like there are only MD residencies...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

DOs have residencies (AOA) too that will be merged together with the MD residencies. you are acting like there are only MD residencies...

Yes, and there aren't very many.... and some of them will close. You talk with condescension on a topic that you know nothing about.

 

[Black Mamba Gene]

-Why is a potentially 25% attrition rate good when US schools have an under 3%
1. Why is a 93% match rate, which does not include those who who did rank or those who withdraw from match give an accurate picture when overall US IMG had only 2292 match out of 7149 who applied?
2. why is there an assumption that an increase in residency spots will go to off shore when US schools are increasing graduates by 3% annually or by about 600 grads a year?
-why with NRMP “all in policy” can any residency slots outside match be considered long term?
-why can any data that SGU claims today be worthwhile in 5 years when applicants today will be in residency?
3. why do you accept on face value statements from a school that is solely profit driven, where taking as in as many students as possible, qualified or not, adds to their bottom line?
-why trust their stats when the school was valued at one billion (thats billion with a “b”) in the past few years, that the founders took a $250 million dollar dividend, had a private equity fund invest $750 million dollars, and is planning to increase class size to increase revenue?

All applicant should spend at least 2 cycles with a break in between on both MD and DO prior to considering off shore schools

1. Because SGU has many affiliated hospitals in US where there students do there clinical rotations. You can't compare that with all IMGs

2. Because the increase in residency positions every year > increase in US medical grads

3. im sure I've seen lists of the students that were accepted and where they were accepted to. I am sure the US hospitals will call them out if they were lying about the 900+ students that got residency positions in 2018.

 

[Black Mamba Gene]

Yes, and there aren't very many.... and some of them will close. You talk with condescension on a topic that you know nothing about.

you say I talk with condescension, but the first comment you made was, "Did you read the article?" And now saying I know nothing about the topic we are discussing. If anybody is talking with condescension, its you. I am having an open discussion about this and challenging the widely believed narrative that its going to get worse for SGU students to find US residencies in the future.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Because SGU has many crappy affiliated hospitals in US where there students do there clinical rotations.

FTFY, just doing rotations there doesn't mean its a place you want to ever do residency. As the US student load increases there will be greater pressure on SGU grads.

Because if the increase in residency positions every year > increase in US medical grads

This isn't true dude.

im sure I've seen lists of the students that were accepted and where they were accepted to. I am sure the US hospitals will call them out if they were lying about the 900+ students that got residency positions in 2018

Again, that number includes prior grads, its not just seniors. Those lists are also full of dead end pre-lim positions that inflate the actual number.

but the first comment you made was, "have you read the article?

and you never answered it, did you read the article? Because it's a pretty terrible study and definitely what they did in no way actually represents their conclusions.

I am having an open discussion about this and challenging the widely believed narrative that its going to get worse for SGU students to find US residencies in the future.

No you're not. You can't even recognize how terrible your own arguments are, let alone have an "open discussion."

 

[Black Mamba Gene]

The narrative has been that in the past, one could go to a top Caribbean school and get US residency. But now it is too hard because of the "residency shortage". Its practically a "death sentence" now a days to go to a top Caribbean school.

Explain this then:
The Match rates of international medical graduates (IMGs) going through the NRMP’s Match were the highest in 25 years—56.5% matched

Also Caribbean school match was highest too I believe at 87% of the ones who made it to graduation.

 

[Black Mamba Gene]

my cousin just got an internal medicine residency in California and he went to Ross.

Of course, getting into medical school in the United States is the best. But people on here act like a school like SGU accepts "everyone" when there averages are around the averages for a US DO medical school.

A lot of negative stigma on here towards anyone who went to Caribbean school. Also, I have seen a lot of discouragement and telling students to change their careers because they won't become doctors if they go to Caribbean. This is false. If you go to SGU or Ross and work your butt off, you have a good chance at getting into a US residency. However one should only go if it is their last option.

 

[bluishgreen]

OP: Bow SGU
Description of OP:

I guess the number of applications submitted for Fall must have tanked.with respect to previous years 😉

 

[Skip Intro]

Not much point me posting on this thread anymore since it was obviously moved from some other sub-forum. But, suffice it to say, there is and has been a looming doctor shortage, and this will continue while everyone tries to play catch-up. It's mid-2018. This catch-up game will continue at least until the year 2025. Then, I believe, things will stabilize. By the year 2050, there will be approximately 430 million people living in the U.S. Think about that for a second. When I graduated from medical school in 2005, there were approximately 300 million people in the U.S. Who is going to provide medical care to all these people? Nurse practitioners? CRNAs? PAs? Nurses? Orderlies? The janitor? Trust me: there's not enough of them right now either! Me? I hope to still be alive by then. Many (if not most) of you reading this thread most very likely will. Plan accordingly.

In the meantime, I've been posting on this forum since 2003. Those of us who have stayed around that long have endured the "doom and gloom" being rehashed ad nauseum in that time span. There have even recently been threads "bumped" from just five years ago where many people were predicting that all Caribbean schools would be closed... by the year 2016!! (haha) It takes on various forms and iterations... "You'll never get a residency"... "The ratio of graduates to spots will be 1:1 by 'X' year".... "The U.S. government is going to defund Caribbean schools"... "Medical boards are not going to issue licenses to any Carib graduate"... "The AOA merger is going to fill all the spots"... you name it. I've heard it all on this forum. A lot of armchair quarterbacking from people who have a little information and a lot of opinion.

This is what matters, if you are a "traditional" student and thinking about going the Caribbean

1. Make sure you've first exhausted all opportunities in the U.S. first.
2. Pick a school that is established and has a long track record of placing graduates into residency.
3. Make sure you get a degree that will get you a permanent medical license in all 50 states
4. Have reasonable expectations. You are probably going to be a Family Practice or Internal Medicine doctor after you graduate, and not a Neurosurgeon, Dermatologist, or Orthopedic Surgeon.
5. If you are a bull**** artist, you're going to struggle. You can't bull**** your way into and through a medical career. The system just doesn't tolerate it. All bull****ers eventually get their comeuppance. (You know who you are.)

You can succeed if you go Caribbean. You just have to go with your proverbial eyes open. I have worked a few places in the past 9 years (since finishing residency), have been actively involved in GME, and stay current with my board certification and maintenance of my licenses. I have been very involved in medical student and resident education. Believe me when I tell you that the biggest hurdles you face lay far ahead of you... beyond which medical school to chose, which residency to chose, and which field to practice in.

My best advice? Look ahead. Far, far ahead. Being a doctor just ain't what it used to be. Even from when I started residency in 2005. If you still want to go this path, make sure it is one that provides you the best opportunities to succeed and be in the position to control your own destiny. You can do this coming from the Caribbean but, yes, it is a lot harder.

-Skip

 

[Goro]

avg gpa for incoming SGU students is a 3.4
avg mcat for incoming SGU students on old scale is a 26

in 2018, 900+ students matched. 93% of the people who applied for residencies matched

900/1200 that started. That is very good, since a lot of students drop out due to not working hard, not being able to handle the island life, etc.

Furthermore, I read this from their website:
"The available residency positions are increasing in the US. The 2018 National Resident Matching Program (NRMP) saw a 4.8% increase over 2017 with 1,383 more PGY1 positions—quelling fears that residencies are becoming unavailable. The available residencies have been growing for 16 consecutive years; more than 9,500 have been added since 2002.

The Match rates of international medical graduates (IMGs) going through the NRMP’s Match were the highest in 25 years—56.5% matched, up from 53.4% last year. For US citizen IMGs, the rate was 57.1%. This percentage has risen 13 of the last 15 years. It should be noted that SGU’s US 2018 current residency obtainment rate for eligible current-year graduates for PGY1 positions—in and out of the Match—is 87%."

My question is, since the residency positions are increasing every single year, is going to SGU medical school (#1 Caribbean med school) a very bad decision still?

The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

From the wise gyngyn: The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

Medical School at SGU

"Why didn't I Match?"

OP, it's obvious you're either an SGU shill, or are seeking affirmation for your risky decision. You have my permission to go to SGU. You deserve them, and they deserve you. But bookmark this for your following career move: Uber Careers | Uber

 

[DexterMorganSK]

A friend of mine who graduated from AUC will be applying for the match the 3rd time this year. His step 1 score is around 204, step 2 is 225 and recently passed step 3. I know his stats are not competitive for an IMG, but had he been a US meds student, he would have matched somewhere. For him, it all came down to his step 1 score. Now he is in 250K in debt and a useless degree.

Point being, you should aim for a US MD/DO school. Do an SMP if you need because the long-term benefits outweigh the current devastating risks. Don't get me wrong, people do make it out of SGU but they need additional help to match and need to be better than a US student on paper and need connections.

Finally, with the MD/DO residencies merger, matching for IMGs/FMGs will only get more difficult in the future.

 

[Skip Intro]

Finally, with the MD/DO residencies merger, matching for IMGs/FMGs will only get more difficult in the future.

Did you read anything I said? 🙄

This specifically will have zero effect on IMGs. ZERO. If you believe otherwise, it is only proof that you don't understand what you're talking about. At all.

-Skip