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:laugh: just saw a tv ad for St georges university on discovery channel and they claimed to "place more doctors into the US healthcare system than 2/3 of US med schools."

How is this possible? Are they claiming to place more residents in the US than two thirds of any single US med school?
 
Wtf? This can't be true. Maybe they are saying that they have better statistics than 2/3 of US med schools for getting students into residency. But this can't be true either??? 😕
 
Normally I play devil's advocate for the Caribbean. Just cuz there needs to be some impartiality to the debates.

However... that is just plain false.
 
Hmmmm, I think it might be how they're wording it.

I agree that the US needs to think more globally about health care. They are starting to do that. But... as far as obesity, cancer etc. go... we win.

I think the ad is saying that it places 2/3s more graduates into programs. Granted the SGU match list is comparable to many other medical schools. A lot of my family are US trained docs... real hard kind of people. Very American. Even they have come to appreciate the good that SGU produces. The students there earnestly work for their education. While a vast majority of the American students have the mentality..."I just have to pass, then I git money, git paid."

I think this ad however is A LOT misleading. Clever marketing ploy.

This time I will defend the Caribbean.
 
Well, they do place a large amount of people into US residencies each year -- more than any other school. According to their residency placements for PGY1 for 2011, there were 790 placements. But that would mean that they place more residents than 100% of schools, since no US school comes close to 790 each year. So why use "2/3".
 
ILikeDrugs said:
Well, they do place a large amount of people into US residencies each year than any other school. According to their residency placements for PGY1 for 2011, there were 790 placements. But that would mean that they place more residents than 100% of schools, since no US school comes close to 790 each year.
Click to expand...

That is A LOT of placement. No wonder the mainland allopathic schools are scared.
 
Check out this link page 7

http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/img/img-workforce-paper.pdf

If I am understanding the tables correctly: 27.8% of persons in us residencies are international medical school graduates (IMGs).

SGU is in Granada, I don't know if there are other medical schools in Granada. Anyhow, looking at the next table 2.7% of all practicing physicians who were IMGs are from granada.

It's a bit late so I can't guarantee my math, but I am thinking this means 0.7% of physicians practicing in the US are from Granada...and if SGU is the only school there, 0.7% of physicians practicing in the US graduated from SGU; I presume after completing a residency in the United States. Haven't been looking into whether IMGs need to complete a residency or simple pass licensing exams to be licensed to practice in the US, sorry.

Anyhow, I think that if my math is correct, then the advertising sounds very fishy, as you guys are saying.

Let me know if I'm wrong!
 
Carbon inc said:
:laugh: just saw a tv ad for St georges university on discovery channel and they claimed to "place more doctors into the US healthcare system than 2/3 of US med schools."

How is this possible? Are they claiming to place more residents in the US than two thirds of any single US med school?
Click to expand...

This is definitely true. But you have to remember that SGU graduates between 600 and 700 MDs each year. Even with a very low match percentage, they can still match more seniors than many med schools.
 
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ucbsmd said:
They may also be saying that they have place more mds in residencys total since they were formed than 2/3 of US universities.
Click to expand...

this.

"...and they've placed more doctors into the US healthcare system than 2/3 of US medical schools."

I took that to mean total numbers across all years. So with as big of a class size as they have, over 30 years or so, I'm not surprised that the total number would be more than all but the oldest US schools.
 
Their clever little two-thirds tagline is only in the commercial to try and prove to the people who think that offshore schools blow (i.e. me) that they could possibly be legit.
 
SGU, Ross, and AUA have ads all over our campus billboards. One ad they ran was a picture of this guy who matched into neurosurgery. They made the link clear: go to Ross, match NS.
 
wololololololo said:
SGU, Ross, and AUA have ads all over our campus billboards. One ad they ran was a picture of this guy who matched into neurosurgery. They made the link clear: go to Ross, match NS.
Click to expand...

His Step1 must have been > 9000
 
I don't know what he did, must have banged his interviewer. He did look sort of homely though...
 
Carbon inc said:
:laugh: just saw a tv ad for St georges university on discovery channel and they claimed to "place more doctors into the US healthcare system than 2/3 of US med schools."

How is this possible? Are they claiming to place more residents in the US than two thirds of any single US med school?
Click to expand...

Class size.

/thread

was that so hard everyone?
 
CodeBlu said:
Normally I play devil's advocate for the Caribbean. Just cuz there needs to be some impartiality to the debates.

However... that is just plain false.
Click to expand...
Caribbean schools have much larger class sizes.
 
Caribbean schools are a sham and the the fact that they need viral/television/youtube advertisements is proof of that fact.
 
MrBird said:
Caribbean schools are a sham and the the fact that they need viral/television/youtube advertisements is proof of that fact.
Click to expand...

Caribbean schools have produced some great doctors. Stop being so pretentious.
 
Is Caribbean schools that much more expensive than domestic schools? How can they afford to pay for spots like that?
 
Dubaifan490 said:
Many New York medical schools hate that NYC hospitals have Caribbean students rotating.
Click to expand...
true but as long as hospitals want more money, they'll take the carribbean students
 
Dubaifan490 said:
Many New York medical schools hate that NYC hospitals have Caribbean students rotating.
Click to expand...
Citation needed. You tried to defend something someone pulled out their ass by something you pulled out your ass.
 
CodeBlu said:
No one pulled anything out of their ass.

No need for snarky comments. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I knew about that article before I just didn't think that's what you meant by "the mainland allopathic schools are scared". Better wording would be "schools in NY are scared". Also, the schools aren't scared of residency spots being filled by Caribbean graduates, as you alluded to in your statement. They're getting pissed by St. George's paying for rotation spots (which I personally don't have a problem with...I'm sure those schools could budget it somehow).

Nobody's too scared of IMGs (American or foreign) taking over residency spots. There's been enough to go around but when spots start getting tight they're gonna be the first to get the boot. This has been beaten to death in countless other threads but the short of it is that this TV ad is just an example of sneaky advertising. Think about it this way...if St. George's was so awesome, why would it need to have TV ads and advertising banners on SDN/random websites/facebook? Don't think I've ever seen a US MD or DO school do that lately...
 
Dubaifan490 said:
Caribbean schools have produced some great doctors. Stop being so pretentious.
Click to expand...

And CEOs of companies can come from the most meager of beginnings (warren buffett). It doesn't change the fact that Caribbeans schools exist for back door admissions. Good people can come from everywhere. But that doesn't mean everywhere is good.

And stop pulling stats out of your ass.
 
SMH you guys. They clearly mean that their doctors in the Carribean end up having to visit US hospitals if they want to get themselves treated for their own afflictions
 
Dubaifan490 said:
Yep. These grumpy people (NY med school deans) can't compete so they want to use the government to enforce their wishes.
Click to expand...

NY schools are not enrolling students in droves to make enormous profits off of them, rather, they are taking the most qualified, competent applicants and trying to train them. SGU is a diploma mill.
 
FIREitUP said:
NY schools are not enrolling students in droves to make enormous profits off of them, rather, they are taking the most qualified, competent applicants and trying to train them. SGU is a diploma mill.
Click to expand...

this is what i'm saying.
 
FIREitUP said:
NY schools are not enrolling students in droves to make enormous profits off of them, rather, they are taking the most qualified, competent applicants and trying to train them. SGU is a diploma mill.
Click to expand...
No it isn't. They give a good medical education and actually want their students to be doctors. Stop lumping SGU with the other 50 crappy Caribbean schools.
 
Dubaifan490 said:
No it isn't. They give a good medical education and actually want their students to be doctors. Stop lumping SGU with the other 50 crappy Caribbean schools.
Click to expand...

It may be a top tier Caribbean school, but its still a Caribbean school. Statistics don't lie...their grads don't place as easily as US MD and DO grads.
 
ucbsmd said:
It may be a top tier Caribbean school, but its still a Caribbean school. Statistics don't lie...their grads don't place as easily as US MD and DO grads.
Click to expand...

True, and that is due to limited residency spots for FMGs. But they do educate their students well, so to say that it is a sham or diploma mill is very arrogant.
 
MrBird said:
Caribbean schools are a sham and the the fact that they need viral/television/youtube advertisements is proof of that fact.
Click to expand...
oh CWRU, no one should apply there based on the fact that you had a TV ad (on MTV, of all places)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbfK6xxa2ZI[/YOUTUBE]

This was back in 2004, when the undergrad was trying to be a "hip" and get less enginerds. Totally backfired on the school.
FattySlug said:
Is Caribbean schools that much more expensive than domestic schools? How can they afford to pay for spots like that?
Click to expand...
Most Caribbean schools cost as much as private med schools, last I looked. Atleast for SGU, you can still get US government loans to attend.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Think about it this way...if St. George's was so awesome, why would it need to have TV ads and advertising banners on SDN/random websites/facebook? Don't think I've ever seen a US MD or DO school do that lately...
Click to expand...

Probably to make people aware of their existence. I had no idea that Carib medical schools existed until 2008 after i graduated and when I was doing a volunteer internship at a psych hospital. There were some med students there doing rotations. It wasn't until I talked to one of the female students and asked where she was going to medical school did I realize that Americans were going to medical school in the Carib. Now that I think about it, I probably made her feel a little ashamed even though I wasn't trying to be condescending at all. After I asked where she went to school, she replied, "Ross." I then said "I've never heard of that school. Where is it?" :laugh: Also, now that I think about it, those kids were pretty pompous for going to the Carib and not having even been placed in residency yet. They came off as really haughty to me and seemed to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. However, I think that's pre-meds/medical students/residents/fellows/phsyicians in general. 😉
 
FIREitUP said:
NY schools are not enrolling students in droves to make enormous profits off of them, rather, they are taking the most qualified, competent applicants and trying to train them. SGU is a diploma mill.
Click to expand...
Undergrad schools in general are diploma mills. They give out degrees to anyone who can maintain a 2.0. Most of these degrees by themselves without a graduate degree, unless its an engineering or architecture or a few others, are about as useful as a bag full of rocks. Most of the jobs that these bachelors get you can be attained by working at the job site and working your way up.
 
Dubaifan490 said:
True, and that is due to limited residency spots for FMGs. But they do educate their students well, so to say that it is a sham or diploma mill is very arrogant.
Click to expand...


It is a sham and it is a diploma mill. Its naive to think it isn't. Foreign education is crap, especially when its from the Caribbean. Study abroad and you'll see. Ask a caribbeaner grad and he'll tell you the first two years were on par, but year 3 and 4 are total bs. How would a school in a third world nation attract world class faculty?
 
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rossbossss said:
It is a sham and it is a diploma mill. Its naive to think it isn't. Foreign education is crap, especially when its from the Caribbean. Study abroad and you'll see. Ask a caribbeaner grad and he'll tell you the first two years were on par, but year 3 and 4 are total bs. How would a school in a third world nation attract world class faculty?
Click to expand...
This isn't true. The big 4 Caribbean schools are fine - atleast, I know SGU is fine since I have done research into the school. More students drop out because they were less academically qualified to actually be a physician - hence why they weren't accepted into US schools. But, it still gives an individual a shot at being an MD and you shouldn't take that chance away from people (We're Americans - if we have a dream, we are going after it even if the risks are high!).

e 3rd and 4th year at SGU, you are trained in US hospital. How can that not be on par? It is similar to many DO schools (even MD-schools that lack an hospital associated with it) -- where you just move hospitals every month or two or three. In some respects, I considered SGU superior to US schools as you change locations alot and learn more about international med too... but I want a residency.

The risk of going to the Carib, is 1. You might drop out because there is a reason you didn't get into US schools (your academic skills aren't good enough) and 2. And this is a big one! Even if you are great, you are going to have a harder time getting a residency - especially a specialty residency. But it can happen. You just will have to work harder at it than US graduates.

Ross, it is unfortunately that you think international education is a sham as many of the physicians you will be working with in the future are international trained.
 
Dubaifan490 said:
No it isn't. They give a good medical education and actually want their students to be doctors. Stop lumping SGU with the other 50 crappy Caribbean schools.
Click to expand...

The fact that SGU is of better quality than other Caribbean schools doesn't mean it even comes close to US schools. The attrition rate, class size, and other factors speak for themselves. Yes, you can be a good doctor coming from SGU, you can be a doctor as amazing as one coming from any other school. That said, the school is crap compared to US schools, and as a for-profit massively-enrolling school with tons of dropouts, it exists by definition as a diploma mill.
 
Avoidthetiger said:
This isn't true. The big 4 Caribbean schools are fine - atleast, I know SGU is fine since I have done research into the school. More students drop out because they were less academically qualified to actually be a physician - hence why they weren't accepted into US schools. But, it still gives an individual a shot at being an MD and you shouldn't take that chance away from people (We're Americans - if we have a dream, we are going after it even if the risks are high!).

e 3rd and 4th year at SGU, you are trained in US hospital. How can that not be on par? It is similar to many DO schools (even MD-schools that lack an hospital associated with it) -- where you just move hospitals every month or two or three. In some respects, I considered SGU superior to US schools as you change locations alot and learn more about international med too... but I want a residency.

The risk of going to the Carib, is 1. You might drop out because there is a reason you didn't get into US schools (your academic skills aren't good enough) and 2. And this is a big one! Even if you are great, you are going to have a harder time getting a residency - especially a specialty residency. But it can happen. You just will have to work harder at it than US graduates.

Ross, it is unfortunately that you think international education is a sham as many of the physicians you will be working with in the future are international trained.
Click to expand...

..... really? really now?
 
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