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[MrBird]

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The fact that SGU is of better quality than other Caribbean schools doesn't mean it even comes close to US schools. The attrition rate, class size, and other factors speak for themselves. Yes, you can be a good doctor coming from SGU, you can be a doctor as amazing as one coming from any other school. That said, the school is crap compared to US schools, and as a for-profit massively-enrolling school with tons of dropouts, it exists by definition as a diploma mill.

Thank you.

Damn.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

..... really? really now?

really. Caribbean might be a diploma mill compared to US med schools but it is no more than a diploma mill than undergrads or law schools. SGU has about a 10-15% attrition rate (with 5% or so transferring to another med school). While it's class size is larger than the US - 800 graduate a year - it has 3 classes per year - so that's about 250-350 per class. That's might be large if you go to a medical school with 100 or less students, but I'm attending a US med school with 200 people in my class.

I don't agree with some individuals that say it is crap compared to US schools. It's just different, and YES for profit. It also has a less rigorousness standard of acceptance - which is why some of the students have difficulty. But there are some very unique opportunities at SGU that you can't get at US schools that could make it a more worthwhile place to attend. Plus, getting US govt loans to go there helps [and you know the military will come rescue you if needed, haha].

 

[gettheleadout]

This isn't true. The big 4 Caribbean schools are fine - atleast, I know SGU is fine since I have done research into the school. More students drop out because they were less academically qualified to actually be a physician - hence why they weren't accepted into US schools. But, it still gives an individual a shot at being an MD and you shouldn't take that chance away from people (We're Americans - if we have a dream, we are going after it even if the risks are high!).

True, but as a nation we have control of regulation of our domestic schools, so it's safer to prefer graduates from US schools. The fact that an institution gives you a piece of paper with MD on it doesn't mean you should have equal right to train here further as do graduates from within the US.

e 3rd and 4th year at SGU, you are trained in US hospital. How can that not be on par? It is similar to many DO schools (even MD-schools that lack an hospital associated with it) -- where you just move hospitals every month or two or three. In some respects, I considered SGU superior to US schools as you change locations alot and learn more about international med too... but I want a residency.

And who's to say these rotating students from the Caribbean are equally prepared in the basic sciences to gain as much from American clinical training as American-trained 3rd and 4th-year students?

The risk of going to the Carib, is 1. You might drop out because there is a reason you didn't get into US schools (your academic skills aren't good enough) and 2. And this is a big one! Even if you are great, you are going to have a harder time getting a residency - especially a specialty residency. But it can happen. You just will have to work harder at it than US graduates.

These risks are enough to negate any argument in favor of the Caribbean. Choose to be a Caribbean grad and you are almost certainly voluntarily cutting your prospective range of specialties by three-fourths or more.

The "sham" is that Caribbean schools don't tell you this. Of course they don't advertise that their "qualified" graduates (by which I mean the small number they allow to participate in the match) barely get into malignant programs and the least competitive fields, though they're quick to assert without evidence that they are of the same quality as our domestic schools.

really. Caribbean might be a diploma mill compared to US med schools but it is no more than a diploma mill than undergrads or law schools. SGU has about a 10-15% attrition rate (with 5% or so transferring to another med school). While it's class size is larger than the US - 800 graduate a year - it has 3 classes per year - so that's about 250-350 per class. That's might be large if you go to a medical school with 100 or less students, but I'm attending a US med school with 200 people in my class.

I don't agree with some individuals that say it is crap compared to US schools. It's just different, and YES for profit. It also has a less rigorousness standard of acceptance - which is why some of the students have difficulty. But there are some very unique opportunities at SGU that you can't get at US schools that could make it a more worthwhile place to attend. Plus, getting US govt loans to go there helps [and you know the military will come rescue you if needed, haha].

Can you prove the first statement or support the second? When the students' failure is as pervasive through the years as it is, it's equally likely that the institution's instruction is at fault as it is that the student selection is at fault.

I also fail to see what opportunities SGU could possibly provide that a quality US institution could.

However, the main point here is that if a medical school wants to be held on par with LCME accredited schools, they must allow themselves to be regulated and held to the same standards as ours. If they are not eligible because we only police schools within our borders, that's their own fault.

 

[pancakesyrup]

It is a sham and it is a diploma mill. Its naive to think it isn't. Foreign education is crap, especially when its from the Caribbean. Study abroad and you'll see. Ask a caribbeaner grad and he'll tell you the first two years were on par, but year 3 and 4 are total bs. How would a school in a third world nation attract world class faculty?

Maybe you had a bad experience at Ross 🙄

 

[IlDestriero]

Please. How much research is going on down there. Basic science research, education research, surfing research, bikini line research? What are the faculty publishing? What great referral cases do you get to see, or interview, etc on the island? It doesn't hold a candle to a below average US school. If they didn't leach off broke US hospitals for the last 2 years, what would you have? Nada.
There are many great international medical schools all over the world. Actual centers of academic research and intellectual curiosity. Don't confuse them with any profit driven degree mill in the Carribean. The FMGs that I know and have worked with came from these leading programs in Japan and India and Great Britian, not Grenada and Guadalajara.

really. Caribbean might be a diploma mill compared to US med schools but it is no more than a diploma mill than undergrads or law schools. SGU has about a 10-15% attrition rate (with 5% or so transferring to another med school). While it's class size is larger than the US - 800 graduate a year - it has 3 classes per year - so that's about 250-350 per class. That's might be large if you go to a medical school with 100 or less students, but I'm attending a US med school with 200 people in my class.

I don't agree with some individuals that say it is crap compared to US schools. It's just different, and YES for profit. It also has a less rigorousness standard of acceptance - which is why some of the students have difficulty. But there are some very unique opportunities at SGU that you can't get at US schools that could make it a more worthwhile place to attend. Plus, getting US govt loans to go there helps [and you know the military will come rescue you if needed, haha].

 

[MrBird]

Please. How much research is going on down there. Basic science research, education research, surfing research, bikini line research? What are the faculty publishing? What great referral cases do you get to see, or interview, etc on the island? It doesn't hold a candle to a below average US school. If they didn't leach off broke US hospitals for the last 2 years, what would you have? Nada.
There are many great international medical schools all over the world. Actual centers of academic research and intellectual curiosity. Don't confuse them with any profit driven degree mill in the Carribean. The FMGs that I know and have worked with came from these leading programs in Japan and India and Great Britian, not Grenada and Guadalajara.

 

[UpstateMD2b]

Research at SGU(note WINDREF):

http://sgu.edu/research/research.html

They also have an MPH program that has accreditation:

http://www.sgu.edu/news-events/news-archives10-accreditation-mph-program.html

http://www.sgu.edu/graduate-schools/master-of-public-health.html

Don't write SGU or other Carib/foreign(caribbean or otherwise) school out just because of skewed views. Yes while their research isn't what you would get at many US allopathic schools, remember that the only way to do research is through money. Yes, they're for profit( but even "non-profit/ not for profit" schools in the US which I assume you attended, are in the business of making money. Schools med/ undergrad/ whatever...are businesses...essentially a diploma mill, just a respected diploma mill). Yes, they have a 30 year history. It takes a lot of money to keep a school up and running and turn it into a place that will even remotely compete with US schools that have many advantages that may not be afforded to them on Grenada.

Remember, it takes money to do research. They're not applying for NIH or NSF grants to fund their research. And lets be honest, people do research for many factors. The main ones are: truly academic endeavors, and to make money off of the products research may yield.

SGU and other carib school students may have entered med school with lower gpa or MCAT, but that does not mean they are any less competent than any doctor graduating from a US medical school.

As a med student in the US going into my 2nd year( and yes, you can say I'm naive and don't have enough experience to know what the hell I'm talking about), its quite disheartening to hear a lot language that suggests that US trained physicians are always better trained than those trained outside the US. While there are instances where that is true, lets not generalize, especially with programs like SGU or Ross that have proven themselves over the years( even with some placement statistics going into PGY-7 or so).

Would you say that physicians from Ireland, England, Scotland, Australia, NZ aren't as great as US med school grads because they don't have the amount of research at their medical school that JHU, Harvard, Columbia, Einstein, etc. may have?...or that they come out of school with an MBBS or an MBCh instead of the MD we all put on a pedestal here in the US(especially compared to DO)? Lets all just give respect to physicians who deserve it through their actions and competence, not on where they got their degree.

 

[drizzy]

The guy who got into neurosurgery took two years off to do research in neuro after med school. AUA also had a student match in neurosurgery at Brown.

http://www.auamed.org/graduate-success

 

[RookTookIt]

The "sham" is that Caribbean schools don't tell you this. Of course they don't advertise that their "qualified" graduates (by which I mean the small number they allow to participate in the match) barely get into malignant programs and the least competitive fields, though they're quick to assert without evidence that they are of the same quality as our domestic schools.

I wouldn't really consider this a sham. What school does mention their shortcomings? Much less on a commercial? It's up to the applicant to do the research whatever school they end up choosing. Yes, going to the Caribbean will make things more difficult and possibly even close some doors completely, but for some people it's a totally valid option.

 

[unique135]

http://www.sgu.edu/pdf/sgu-facts-are-clear.pdf

whatever there is between Caribbean vs US/Canadian...

Fact: Students applying to Caribbean have some setbacks or weaknesses - thats why there are there in the first place. (I myself is applying Caribbean with 3.8 Gpa and 24M Mcat...didn't bother for another Mcat due to time...but I know I will be doing great in terms of academics regardless of schools...I don't need teacher...I am self-learner but yeah experience helps a lot).

 

[45408]

No wonder the mainland allopathic schools are scared.

They're not.

 

[KnuxNole]

Please. How much research is going on down there. Basic science research, education research, surfing research, bikini line research? What are the faculty publishing? What great referral cases do you get to see, or interview, etc on the island? It doesn't hold a candle to a below average US school. If they didn't leach off broke US hospitals for the last 2 years, what would you have? Nada.
There are many great international medical schools all over the world. Actual centers of academic research and intellectual curiosity. Don't confuse them with any profit driven degree mill in the Carribean. The FMGs that I know and have worked with came from these leading programs in Japan and India and Great Britian, not Grenada and Guadalajara.

Why is research such a big deal, to the medical school perspective? Most med students would never touch a research lab while in med school. Some havent ever touched research at all.

The doctors/PhD who are "world" class end up being the lame peeps you skip class at or are too "high and mighty" to learn anything from on rotations. The more chill, human doctors end up teaching you a lot more, and not just clinical medicine 😀

 

[mmmcdowe]

Research at SGU(note WINDREF):

http://sgu.edu/research/research.html
.

For giggles I went into the areas of research tab and picked the first MD PhD I saw, Marios Loukas. I searched pubmed for that name plus "angiogenesis" which was the area of research interest cited. No pubs came up. I also tried just angio, no luck. I scrolled down and, surprise, there his name was again. This time under arteriogenesis. Pubmeded that, one article where Dr. Loukas is 4th author in a 2004 article. Turns out Dr. L has 9 separate categories that he fills in order to expand the list of areas of interest. The others of his I came across were all review articles, but I didn't do too many searches.

In the other tab, there are a total of 50 researchers currently employed at SGU. There are departments with more research investigators than that at US schools.