SGUSOM term experiences for prospective students (Start p.2 Previously:What are my chances at SABA?)

[fujiwara]

Hello,

I'm a Canadian student currently looking to apply to Saba. I originally attended Western without knowing what i wanted to do in life and bombed my undergrad (still managed to graduate) with very low GPA (around 1.5). Currently I'm at york with cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 3.4. I havent written my MCAT yet but i have worked in healthcare for the past 3 years at CT/MRI/US Clinic, volunteered at a local hospital, shadowed radiologists and gp's. I haven't done any research/publications either. While I realize there will be many people who'll be telling me to write the MCAT and ace it, I wanted to know my chances if I were to apply for january class for SABA (they dont have mcat required for Canadians).

Thank you!

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[795722]

Stay far away from offshore.

 

[shouldigomd]

Low chances. Most people applying have an MCAT. Also being in January class is the same thing as being in august class as you will enter residency at the same time. You won't be saving time. You will be much better off taking a few months and getting the best score you can. Perhaps you can land a spot in canada, USA, or one of the better caribbean schools (sgu / ross).

 

[bedevilled ben]

Hello,

I'm a Canadian student currently looking to apply to Saba. I originally attended Western without knowing what i wanted to do in life and bombed my undergrad (still managed to graduate) with very low GPA (around 1.5). Currently I'm at york with cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 3.4. I havent written my MCAT yet but i have worked in healthcare for the past 3 years at CT/MRI/US Clinic, volunteered at a local hospital, shadowed radiologists and gp's. I haven't done any research/publications either. While I realize there will be many people who'll be telling me to write the MCAT and ace it, I wanted to know my chances if I were to apply for january class for SABA (they dont have mcat required for Canadians).

Thank you!

If your goal is to practice in the US or Canada in the future, don't go to a school that doesn't requires an MCAT/equivalent test score. You need to take this standardized test to know where you stack up BEFORE you set foot into medical school. From here on out your performance is gauged by tests that only get harder compared to the MCAT.

Really, though. You have a track record of poor performance, a poor cGPA, no research, and no MCAT score. Do you really, honestly, think this is going to go well for you? Come on. The path to become a doctor is incredibly tough, doing so from a foreign school is even harder. At least put forth a little effort before you jump into this mess. I have no doubt you would be able to enroll at Saba. The bigger question, and the one you should be concerned about, is whether you will graduate and/or secure a residency.

 

[fujiwara]

Low chances. Most people applying have an MCAT. Also being in January class is the same thing as being in august class as you will enter residency at the same time. You won't be saving time. You will be much better off taking a few months and getting the best score you can. Perhaps you can land a spot in canada, USA, or one of the better caribbean schools (sgu / ross).

Thank you for the reply. My original intention was to apply for january term for SABA to see if i can get accepted and study for MCAT (Planned on writing it around june or so) in case I get rejected so I can apply to other schools for Fall2017 or Winter 2018. Unfortunately with the current currency exchange between CAD and USD, I am not quite sure if SGU and ROSS are even an option anymore.

 

[fujiwara]

If your goal is to practice in the US or Canada in the future, don't go to a school that doesn't requires an MCAT/equivalent test score. You need to take this standardized test to know where you stack up BEFORE you set foot into medical school. From here on out your performance is gauged by tests that only get harder compared to the MCAT.

Really, though. You have a track record of poor performance, a poor cGPA, no research, and no MCAT score. Do you really, honestly, think this is going to go well for you? Come on. The path to become a doctor is incredibly tough, doing so from a foreign school is even harder. At least put forth a little effort before you jump into this mess. I have no doubt you would be able to enroll at Saba. The bigger question, and the one you should be concerned about, is whether you will graduate and/or secure a residency.

Thank you for the honest reply. I realize that this will be an uphill battle and to be quite frank, reading various blogs about people who've attended SABA explaining the horror of biochem/genetics exam during 2nd semester had sent shivers down my back. So, to answer the first question, no I dont think this is going to be cake walk and I am not expecting it to be. To be honest I am quite terrified about the debt and possibility of failing to graduate or not landing a residency. However, given that I am currently working almost full time (so I can afford tuition & other necessities) while attending university as a full time student with 100% course load, volunteering at local hospital and community events, I am hoping it'd get better when my only responsibility is to study while im on the island. Aside from taking the MCAT, what other course of actions would you recommend?

 

[bedevilled ben]

I am hoping it'd get better when my only responsibility is to study while im on the island. Aside from taking the MCAT, what other course of actions would you recommend?

Trust me, it does not. It only gets harder, the MCAT is quite literally the easiest and fastest part of a medical school application that you can improve. My suggestion would be to study your ass off for the MCAT and do well on it, then look into grade replacement options for DO schools in the US or consider a post-bacc program to offset your low cGPA. Until you've shown consistently that you can perform academically both in classes and in standardized tests, you shouldn't make the jump into medical school.

 

[muqalia]

I think you would probably get in to be honest. There are success stories sure but there is alot of horror stories as well. You know yourself best. If you can take standardized tests and do well then maybe its worth a shot....

 

[NewHorizons]

Thank you for the honest reply. I realize that this will be an uphill battle and to be quite frank, reading various blogs about people who've attended SABA explaining the horror of biochem/genetics exam during 2nd semester had sent shivers down my back. So, to answer the first question, no I dont think this is going to be cake walk and I am not expecting it to be. To be honest I am quite terrified about the debt and possibility of failing to graduate or not landing a residency. However, given that I am currently working almost full time (so I can afford tuition & other necessities) while attending university as a full time student with 100% course load, volunteering at local hospital and community events, I am hoping it'd get better when my only responsibility is to study while im on the island. Aside from taking the MCAT, what other course of actions would you recommend?

Matching back to Canada is much harder than matching to the US as a Canadian.

Generally less than 25% of IMGs match back via CaRMS every year, where most come from Australia and Ireland.

Unless you got some sick connections back home and a bank account that would make Bill Gates jealous don't go Carribean as a Canadian ever.

 

[fujiwara]

Trust me, it does not. It only gets harder, the MCAT is quite literally the easiest and fastest part of a medical school application that you can improve. My suggestion would be to study your ass off for the MCAT and do well on it, then look into grade replacement options for DO schools in the US or consider a post-bacc program to offset your low cGPA. Until you've shown consistently that you can perform academically both in classes and in standardized tests, you shouldn't make the jump into medical school.

To be honest this was one of the options I was looking into. Taking MCAT has always been part of the plan but I haven't taken it yet because I'd like to be sufficiently prepared to do well on it instead of trying to juggle it on top of my job and full course load I have during the F/W term. The only obstacle was that some of the schools I was looking into such as MSUCOM, AZCOM and etc were asking ~80k per year and that is quite literally 100k+ with current currency. There are no banks that are willing to loan 400k which pretty much blocked that option for me, hence why I'm looking into Carribeans.

 

[fujiwara]

I think you would probably get in to be honest. There are success stories sure but there is alot of horror stories as well. You know yourself best. If you can take standardized tests and do well then maybe its worth a shot....

Thank you for the reply. After scavenging through the entire forum, the forum seem to be filled with warning and horror stories in regard to caribbean schools. I think if given the opportunity, I would like to pursue medicine regardless of location.

 

[fujiwara]

Matching back to Canada is much harder than matching to the US as a Canadian.

Generally less than 25% of IMGs match back via CaRMS every year, where most come from Australia and Ireland.

Unless you got some sick connections back home and a bank account that would make Bill Gates jealous don't go Carribean as a Canadian ever.

Thank you for the information. Was the stat posted on CaRMS website? Personally, at the end of the day, as long as I can be a doctor, I wouldnt mind practicing outside of Canada.

 

[Skip Intro]

Personally, at the end of the day, as long as I can be a doctor, I wouldnt mind practicing outside of Canada.

You say that now. "Personally", I think you should slow down and take a breath.

-Skip

 

[fujiwara]

You say that now. "Personally", I think you should slow down and take a breath.

-Skip

Thank you for the reply and the insightful read! I can say with confidence that my reason for pursuing medicine is definitely internally driven. I have carefully assessed many alternatives before concluding that I want to study medicine. I have no doubt that my perspective of where I want to practice may be subject to change as I accumulate more knowledge about the numerous healthcare facilities, and its surroundings. Just to clarify, I do have my preference of where I'd like to work (FM in rural region, Canada), but if push came to shove and Canada was not long a viable option, I would rather practice medicine outside of Canada than not at all.

 

[Skip Intro]

I can say with confidence that my reason for pursuing medicine is definitely internally driven.

I think that a lot of people going into medicine feel this way when they are first considering the profession or even just starting out.

Then life, or I should say "more life", happens to them. Slowly the reality - and the allure... the "sheen", if you will - of becoming and being a doctor slowly fades into the day-to-day drudgery of taking care of patients. It, sadly, becomes a job. And, that job is becoming more and more about managing paper than it is patients.

It is the rare individual who maintains that 'glow' that compelled and propelled them into medicine in the first place. I hope you will prove to be one of those people who, fifteen years later and unlike myself, has not become more than a bit jaded at what the machine of modern medicine has turned into. This is true whether you're practicing at a major University hospital in a world-class city, or some Native American outpost in the middle of rural Montana. Sadly. Truly.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/865788

I'm paid relatively well for what I do. I'm fortunate in that regard. When that dries up, I'm out. That's a promise. It's just not worth the hassle or the personal exposure anymore. Life is too short. I've been practicing medicine for 7 years independently. My intent is to do it for another 20 years before I retire. If the changes continue to happen and go the way they are now, though, I will go do something else with my life.

In that regard, no one cares where you went to school or trained. We are all in the same boat. The bureaucrats are winning.

-Skip

 

[fujiwara]

I think that a lot of people going into medicine feel this way when they are first considering the profession or even just starting out.

Then life, or I should say "more life", happens to them. Slowly the reality - and the allure... the "sheen", if you will - of becoming and being a doctor slowly fades into the day-to-day drudgery of taking care of patients. It, sadly, becomes a job. And, that job is becoming more and more about managing paper than it is patients.

It is the rare individual who maintains that 'glow' that compelled and propelled them into medicine in the first place. I hope you will prove to be one of those people who, fifteen years later and unlike myself, has not become more than a bit jaded at what the machine of modern medicine has turned into. This is true whether you're practicing at a major University hospital in a world-class city, or some Native American outpost in the middle of rural Montana. Sadly. Truly.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/865788

I'm paid relatively well for what I do. I'm fortunate in that regard. When that dries up, I'm out. That's a promise. It's just not worth the hassle or the personal exposure anymore. Life is too short. I've been practicing medicine for 7 years independently. My intent is to do it for another 20 years before I retire. If the changes continue to happen and go the way they are now, though, I will go do something else with my life.

In that regard, no one cares where you went to school or trained. We are all in the same boat. The bureaucrats are winning.

-Skip

Thank you for the insightful reply. While I also hope I can maintain my current passion for medicine, I would not be surprised if the process you mentioned gets to me as well.

 

[fujiwara]

Quick update:
I received a letter back from Saba this morning and was not able to get an offer of admission/interview or anything. So as per my plan B I will be writing my MCAT and will probably apply to SGU/ROSS and maybe some cheaper DO schools (if they exist) in the states as well.

 

[DRPM&R]

I think you have no chance for the Caribbean, I mean the Top 3. And honestly I don't know why you're trying so hard to get there when there are much better options out there for you. It's highly risky to go to the Caribbean, 1 failed class and you'll have to repeat a whole semester which might set you back a year or worse you'll be thrown out. How will you recover from that? you just can't. It will hurt to lose so much money, time, not to mention the embarrassment of failure and how it will impact your chances of getting a residency/job in the future.

If you're planning on going outside of the US/Canada for med school, Europe is a much better option than the Caribbean (US MD > Europe MD > Caribbean Top 3 > US DO). You won't have to deal with the stigma of being a Caribbean grad, there's a very low chance that you will fail out (they give you several chances to recover), tuition and living expenses are cheap, you will have the opportunity to travel, have fun, relieve stress, you'll have all the amenities of home, you won't have to be completely surrounded by medical school 24/7...

If you don't want to waste a lot of time preparing for the MCAT and applying, there is one 4 year program in Poland at Medical University of Lodz that doesn't require it atm. It's a US/Canadian style program with the option of doing some 4th year clinical electives in the US/Canada and learning the Polish language is not mandatory. In recent years, people have been getting mostly IM/FM residencies in the US, but also some highly competitive ones like Radiology. I would really think about choosing Europe over the Caribbean.

 

[gyngyn]

If you're planning on going outside of the US/Canada for med school, Europe is a much better option than the Caribbean (US MD > Europe MD > Caribbean Top 3 > US DO).

As a counter-point to your ranking, we have DO's on our faculty and on our admissions committee. We have no Caribbean grads. Our residency programs will consider DO's. We don't consider US IMG's.

 

[fujiwara]

I think you have no chance for the Caribbean, I mean the Top 3. And honestly I don't know why you're trying so hard to get there when there are much better options out there for you. It's highly risky to go to the Caribbean, 1 failed class and you'll have to repeat a whole semester which might set you back a year or worse you'll be thrown out. How will you recover from that? you just can't. It will hurt to lose so much money, time, not to mention the embarrassment of failure and how it will impact your chances of getting a residency/job in the future.

If you're planning on going outside of the US/Canada for med school, Europe is a much better option than the Caribbean (US MD > Europe MD > Caribbean Top 3 > US DO). You won't have to deal with the stigma of being a Caribbean grad, there's a very low chance that you will fail out (they give you several chances to recover), tuition and living expenses are cheap, you will have the opportunity to travel, have fun, relieve stress, you'll have all the amenities of home, you won't have to be completely surrounded by medical school 24/7...

If you don't want to waste a lot of time preparing for the MCAT and applying, there is one 4 year program in Poland at Medical University of Lodz that doesn't require it atm. It's a US/Canadian style program with the option of doing some 4th year clinical electives in the US/Canada and learning the Polish language is not mandatory. In recent years, people have been getting mostly IM/FM residencies in the US, but also some highly competitive ones like Radiology. I would really think about choosing Europe over the Caribbean.

Thank you for the detailed reply. I've considered Australia/Ireland/New Zealand as alternatives as there have been numerous people who've told me its easier to come back from those schools, but i heard residency is near impossible to get. European MD is something I have not considered but will now look into (Although I'll admit recent events in europe does make me worry). I do prefer to stay within NA if possible and that is one of the reasons why I'm pushing more for Carrib/DO route more so than going international. There seemed to be general consensus among the majority that DO is a better route overall than going MD outside of US/Canada which also influenced my post in regards to applying DO schools once I write my MCAT. At this point in time, I feel more comfortable going with my original plan and writing the MCAT around January to apply to schools in States and Carrib once again (even if there are no chance at top 3 since anything below that is not favourable as you've mentioned).

 

[fujiwara]

As a counter-point to your ranking, we have DO's on our faculty and on our admissions committee. We have no Caribbean grads. Our residency programs will consider DO's. We don't consider US IMG's.

This type of information is what makes me feel more inclined to believe DO route may present less obstacles in the long run in comparison to Caribbean.

 

[Goro]

You are the desperate mark that their business plan is dependent upon. As long as you have a pulse and can write a tuition check, you're in.

Hello,

I'm a Canadian student currently looking to apply to Saba. I originally attended Western without knowing what i wanted to do in life and bombed my undergrad (still managed to graduate) with very low GPA (around 1.5). Currently I'm at york with cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 3.4. I havent written my MCAT yet but i have worked in healthcare for the past 3 years at CT/MRI/US Clinic, volunteered at a local hospital, shadowed radiologists and gp's. I haven't done any research/publications either. While I realize there will be many people who'll be telling me to write the MCAT and ace it, I wanted to know my chances if I were to apply for january class for SABA (they dont have mcat required for Canadians).

Thank you!

 

[bedevilled ben]

This type of information is what makes me feel more inclined to believe DO route may present less obstacles in the long run in comparison to Caribbean.

This is unequivocally the case if your goal is to practice in the US/Canada.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I think you have no chance for the Caribbean, I mean the Top 3. And honestly I don't know why you're trying so hard to get there when there are much better options out there for you. It's highly risky to go to the Caribbean, 1 failed class and you'll have to repeat a whole semester which might set you back a year or worse you'll be thrown out. How will you recover from that? you just can't. It will hurt to lose so much money, time, not to mention the embarrassment of failure and how it will impact your chances of getting a residency/job in the future.

If you're planning on going outside of the US/Canada for med school, Europe is a much better option than the Caribbean (US MD > Europe MD > Caribbean Top 3 > US DO). You won't have to deal with the stigma of being a Caribbean grad, there's a very low chance that you will fail out (they give you several chances to recover), tuition and living expenses are cheap, you will have the opportunity to travel, have fun, relieve stress, you'll have all the amenities of home, you won't have to be completely surrounded by medical school 24/7...

If you don't want to waste a lot of time preparing for the MCAT and applying, there is one 4 year program in Poland at Medical University of Lodz that doesn't require it atm. It's a US/Canadian style program with the option of doing some 4th year clinical electives in the US/Canada and learning the Polish language is not mandatory. In recent years, people have been getting mostly IM/FM residencies in the US, but also some highly competitive ones like Radiology. I would really think about choosing Europe over the Caribbean.

The rank list would be more:

US/Can MD > US DO >>>>>> Well known EU/Aus program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Top 3/4 Caribbean >≥>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the others.

 

[the argus]

The rank list would be more:

US/Can MD > US DO >>>>>> Well known EU/Aus program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Top 3/4 Caribbean >≥>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the others.

Only in the fake world of SDN is this even remotely true. A much more realistic representation would be,

USMD>>>>>>>>>DO>EU/AUS=top3 Carib>>all the rest.

And depending on the individual program, anything after USMD could be =

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Only in the fake world of SDN is this even remotely true. A much more realistic representation would be,

USMD>>>>>>>>>DO>EU/AUS=top3 Carib>>all the rest.

And depending on the individual program, anything after USMD could be =

I was considering the well known programs such as Cambridge or the like. Not Caribbean style schools located in Europe like some of the Polish schools, etc.

With the merger of the MD and DO residencies, I believe that the gap between the two will be significantly less between MD and DO than between DO and the rest.

 

[the argus]

I was considering the well known programs such as Cambridge or the like. Not Caribbean style schools located in Europe like some of the Polish schools, etc.

With the merger of the MD and DO residencies, I believe that the gap between the two will be significantly less between MD and DO than between DO and the rest.

Grads from Cambridge, etc do much better for residency placement than DOs. You find high achieving foreign grads from top schools in top tier residency programs across all specialties, where you rarely if ever find DOs.

Please explain how folding AOA residencies into the ACGME will somehow make DO grads more desirable to PDs. It's not like top premeds are gonna start flocking to DO schools, or osteopathic schools will magically start providing top notch clinical education experiences and research opportunities. The merger has nothing to do with undergraduate medical education. All the merger does is eliminate AOA residency programs, nothing more.

The idea that the gap between USMD and DO is "significantly less" than between DOs and IMGs is just pure nonsense. And the idea that the merger would change this is inexplicable. There's a reason the NRMP groups DOs with independent applicants and not USMDs when making their data reports. In terms of residency placement, DO outcomes are much more similar to IMGs than they are to USMDs. There's really no debating this. Anyone who says otherwise is either 1) deliberately lying with some ulterior motive, or 2) painfully uninformed.

 

[Skip Intro]

As a counter-point to your ranking, we have DO's on our faculty and on our admissions committee. We have no Caribbean grads. Our residency programs will consider DO's. We don't consider US IMG's.

I was on the committee for residency appointments while in training. We considered the most qualified applicants, regardless of where they trained. (This was at a competitive University-based program in "fly-over" country that had predominately U.S. MD and D.O. graduates in training, with a few Carib grads [myself included] here and there.)

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

There are also 6-year straight from high school programs for the very qualified.

Also, Texas Tech and LECOM are offering accelerated (3-year) programs for matriculants committing to Primary Care specialties. Not sure how this will weigh with certain medical boards downstream, but so long as you have a diploma I guess they will have to honor it.

-Skip

 

[mambostrike5]

Hello,

I'm a Canadian student currently looking to apply to Saba. I originally attended Western without knowing what i wanted to do in life and bombed my undergrad (still managed to graduate) with very low GPA (around 1.5). Currently I'm at york with cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 3.4. I havent written my MCAT yet but i have worked in healthcare for the past 3 years at CT/MRI/US Clinic, volunteered at a local hospital, shadowed radiologists and gp's. I haven't done any research/publications either. While I realize there will be many people who'll be telling me to write the MCAT and ace it, I wanted to know my chances if I were to apply for january class for SABA (they dont have mcat required for Canadians).

Thank you!

Hello. I am a current student at Saba. I highly recommend you do not come to this school. First of all they will literally take anyone that applies. The quality of education is so sub-par I don't even know where to begin. From the multitudes of foreign profs with thick African and Indian accents all the way to the cram sessions they "teach" everything, it is absolutely not worth your time, money, and above all your well being. The schedule starting 2nd semester through 5th is 8a-5p M-F. That leaves hardly anytime to study, especially since they have shortened semesters. The attrition rate is horrible, every class starts with 80ish students and by the end there is 20-30max...this is clearly not normal of an educational institution. There is no time to go to profs office hours or get any kind of tutoring, let alone thoroughly learn the material.

They made a curriculum change back in 2015, and ever since their passing rates have dropped significantly. Dr. Chu the president of the school himself came and told us here that the NMBE Comprehensive pass rate has gone from 80-90% down to 40-50% since the curriculum change!!! In their attempt to scramble to fix things, they keep changing the schedules, adding courses, taking away courses, hiring profs, firing profs, it has been an absolute mess since I've been here!!

In case you are wondering the NMBE Comp is the test the school makes you take before they allow you to sit for the Step 1, so that "99%" pass rate is kind of false reporting because they make it seem like 99% of the students who enroll pass, in fact you have to survive 5 horrible semesters of confusion and self-teaching, and even if you get passed all the courses, then you have to take that Comp (which has had failing pass rates as I mentioned above).....then finally sit for the Step 1. It is all like a staged event so they get to write 99% first time pass rate. And the admin is so out of touch with the students because all the decision are made in Devens, MA by R3 Education Inc. which is the company that owns this school, so no one can be held accountable by the students on the island. Once they take your money they treat like garbage.

If you are a genius or a robot, you will succeed here and learn the material well with cram sessions and no guidance from the school...otherwise average students get destroyed and ripped off like so many of my freinds!

Please take my advice to heart, I am not exaggerating in anyway...don't make the same mistake so many of us have made!

 

[mcat_taker]

The rank list would be more:

US/Can MD > US DO >>>>>> Well known EU/Aus program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Top 3/4 Caribbean >≥>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the others.

I'm at a well known Aus program. Many of my classmates chose to come here over DO acceptances they had. Just adding my 2 cents.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I'm at a well known Aus program. Many of my classmates chose to come here over DO acceptances they had. Just adding my 2 cents.

That's a bit foolish.

 

[the argus]

You don’t get it. It doesn’t remove AOA programs it just makes them merge into one residency match accreditation . Now DO students won’t have to apply to ACGME and AOA matches. Many AOA programs are going to transition to ACGME and many of them have osteopathic recognition. That means there we will be significantly more DO’s in the match after 2020 and they will just flush out all the IMG’s. DO programs will still overwehmlingly take DO’s as they are familiar with OMM- something that MD’s and IMG’s are not. The merger will make sure that all residency programs are accredited by a single system. Also DO’s consistently match all specialties and thier match rate among all specialties is similar to MD’s and significantly higher than any IMG. USMD>USDO>>>>>>>>> anything else and this will never change( aside from top international schools such as cambridge or Tokyo school of medicine or the likes who are on equal footing of USMD) you are doing a people on this site a huge disservice by giving them the wrong information.

Gotta love the premeds coming in and explaining to the rest of us how things really work...

Your diatribe is ridiculous and doesn't even make sense logically. First you claim that AOA programs aren't going anywhere, they're just merging under the ACGME. Great, I agree with that.

You don’t get it. It doesn’t remove AOA programs it just makes them merge into one residency match accreditation . Now DO students won’t have to apply to ACGME and AOA matches. Many AOA programs are going to transition to ACGME and many of them have osteopathic recognition.

This is where things start to go off the rails...

That means there we will be significantly more DO’s in the match after 2020 and they will just flush out all the IMG’s.

Yes, there will be significantly more DOs in the match, but there will also be all the previous AOA residency positions. So if the DOs "will just flush out all the IMG's", who will be filling all of the old AOA residency positions? Oh that's right, you said that,

DO programs will still overwehmlingly take DO’s as they are familiar with OMM- something that MD’s and IMG’s are not.

So DOs are going to take all of the positions that IMGs previously filled AND they are still going to fill all of the previous AOA positions as well. Where are all of these DOs going to magically come from? Maybe some DOs will be filling positions in two separate residency programs? They would be pretty busy!!

Maybe you'll argue, using the awesome SDN groupthink, that the number of DOs is growing astronomically and squeezing out the IMGs? That sounds great, except it's completely false. More IMGs matched in 2016 than in any of the previous 10 years. You don't have to take my work for it, go to page 79 in the most recent ACGME data resource book.
ACGME Data Resource Book

Then there's this,

Also DO’s consistently match all specialties and thier match rate among all specialties is similar to MD’s and significantly higher than any IMG. USMD>USDO>>>>>>>>> anything else and this will never change( aside from top international schools such as cambridge or Tokyo school of medicine or the likes who are on equal footing of USMD) you are doing a people on this site a huge disservice by giving them the wrong information.

This sounds great, the problem is it's just patently false. Again, you don't have to take my word for it. Here's the most recent NRMP document, go to page 8.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2017.pdf
Find me the specialties that huge numbers of DOs match into that IMGs don't. I'll save you some time, there aren't any. You might be able to argue PMR, but thats it.

And there's a reason that up until 2016 DOs were grouped along with IMGs, and not USMDs, in the NRMP reports. It's because their outcomes are much more similar to IMGs than USMDs in the match. There's really no debating this. DOs are limited to basically the same specialties, and same program tier within specialty, as IMGs. There's always going to be the exceptions that prove the rule, but overall this stands. Those of us who have actually gone through the process know this.

Congrats on your osteopathic acceptance, sincerely. It's clear you're chugging the osteopathic, and SDN premed forum, kool-aid pretty hard right now. Come back in four years after you've applied to residency and we'll see if you're singing the same tune.

 

[Caribpro]

Also DO’s consistently match all specialties and thier match rate among all specialties is similar to MD’s and significantly higher than any IMG. USMD>USDO>>>>>>>>> anything else

2018 AOA Match Results

 

[UserUnidentified420]

I think OP's chances are good. My friends chose AUC and SGU and they're liking it there, though. The AUC clinical rotations are a bit rougher than SGU rotations from what I've seen.

 

[the argus]

Not hating on IMG's but post merger you have to be realistic, the chances of matching anything as an IMG will be hard. It might be harder to match some specialties as a DO but only time will tell.(Depending on how open former AOA specialties will be to MD's) But it will be significantly harder to match flat out anything as an IMG after 2020 and I have no doubt about that. You should apply at least twice to US DO/MD before subjecting yourself to a caribbean diploma mill. Also I fail to understand how the NRPM match grouping US DO's as not as US seniors has anything to do with this? US graduates(people who have graduated from US MD schools) are also listed separately and as "independent applicants", it literally doesn't matter or mean anything. The truth is that most DO schools have <10% attrition rate and 95%+ match and placement rates. DO senior applicants match at almost 90% which is just below the MD levels of 93%, these levels are just a pipe dream for Caribbean schools. Again not hating on IMG's but just trying to give OP a real objective look at it.

@Goro Can you chime in?

You’re very good at regurgitating SDN premed forum groupthink, but not very good at providing evidence. Why would an IMG’s chances post-merger be much different? Not many total residency positions overall (AOA + ACGME) will be lost due to the merger. Right now 6500-7200 IMGs match yearly. You think that’s gonna change overnight post-merger?

I’m not sure why you think having Goro come in here to post his nonsense is going to help. His ridiculous copy/paste diatribe “quoting the wise gyngyn” is riddled with half-truths and unqualified opinion. I know he’s a god to you guys in the premed forum, but to everyone else he’s just a non-physician PhD who teaches basic science at an osteopathic medical school who doesn’t have the experience or expertise to make the declarations he does.

 

[Skip Intro]

6500-7200 match right now out of like 20,000+ that try every year. <snip>

You should really just stop right now. It is becoming clear that you have next to zero understanding of what you're talking about.

-Skip

 

[the argus]

6500-7200 match right now out of like 20,000+ that try every year. That’s an abysmal match rate. Also after 2020 you will never know how many will match, it could be just 3000, or 2000 or 1000. More and more DO and MD schools are opening up and GME spots are staying the same. With the merger an additional 2000 DO’s will enter the match. It’s going to get tough for IMG’s. 10 or 15 years ago going IMG was a great backup option now it’s just not feasible. This is the American medical system’s way of ensuring that everything stays stateside and I don’t blame them one bit for it.

I'm not sure I should keep replying because it's clear you are more interested in trying to be right than being factually incorrect. But I have some free time, so here goes.

6500-7200 match right now out of like 20,000+ that try every year. That’s an abysmal match rate.

Not sure where you're getting this 20,000+ number, but I'm pretty sure you're sitting on it. Not even the most negative interpretations of the NRMP IMG match data could get you to 20,000+.

More and more DO and MD schools are opening up and GME spots are staying the same.

More SDN premed forum groupthink that has no basis in reality. In the real world, GME spots have increased significantly, basically at the same rate as USMD and DO expansion. Again you don't have to take my word for it, the data from the ACGME, which I linked to above and you clearly didn't read, shows this. Here's the link again, please read it,
ACGME Data Resource Book
Look at page 79. In 2007 there 25,066 first year ACGME positions. In 2016 there were 29,826. That's an increase in >4,500 positions over 10 years. Again, this is the ACGME's data, not mine.

With the merger an additional 2000 DO’s will enter the match.

Yea, and so will all the previous AOA only residency positions. You don't seem to understand how this works, I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand.

It’s going to get tough for IMG’s. 10 or 15 years ago going IMG was a great backup option now it’s just not feasible.

Again, more SDN premed groupthink with no basis in reality. Go look at the ACGME documents again. 15 years ago in 2002, 6,454 IMGs matched into ACGME positions (page 6 on 2011-2012 ACGME data resource book). 10 years ago in 2007, 7,104 IMGs matched into ACGME positions. In 2016, 7,218 IMGs matched into ACGME positions.

So 10 or 15 years ago, when less IMGs matched per year, it "was a great back-up option." But now, when more IMGs are matching, "it's just not feaible." You understand how silly you sound, right?

This is the American medical system’s way of ensuring that everything stays stateside and I don’t blame them one bit for it.

The merger was all about the ACGME flexing it's power over the AOA, plain and simple. It had nothing to do with "ensuring that everything stays stateside."


Look, it's painfully obvious you have memorized the diatribes of gonnif, goro, etc from the premed forums and are trying to regurgitate them. The only issue is, what they say is nonsense. I've given you the data from the ACGME itself, please take a look and stop posting this hogwash.

 

[Caribpro]

6500-7200 match right now out of like 20,000+ that try every year. That’s an abysmal match rate.

Of the 12,355 IMGs who participated in the 2017 Match, 6,591 (53.3%) matched.


Of the 5,069 U.S. citizen IMG participants, 2,777 (54.8%) were matched to first-year positions, a decrease of 92 from last year. The number of U.S. citizen IMGs matching to first-year positions has increased in 12 of the last 14 Matches.

IMG Performance in the 2017 Match - ECFMG News

 

[Skip Intro]

This is word for word quoted by a Carib graduate.

First off, that's called an anecdote. It means nothing.

Secondly, are you going to even acknowledge the argus's post? Why is it so hard for people to acknowledge the actual data?

Proceed to the Carib with caution:
As a Carib graduate, you have more hoops to jump through just to get licensed as an IMG, even if you go to one of the only 5 schools whose degree is recognized by medical boards in all 50 states.
-You, generally speaking, have to apply to more residency programs (50-100% more) than US MDs or DOs even in the less competitive specialties you mentioned. I met a few SGU applicants on the trail. They had similar scores to me, but applied to way more programs to get fewer interviews.
-Cost. It's expensive on the islands. SGU's tuition is also more than almost all US med schools, and is practically double the tuition at most DO schoos. It's also expensive traveling around to rotation sites potentially incompletely different states. You will probably travel for DO schools, but in most you could do a lot of your cores in one system or area.
-Time. I have yet to meet one person that didn't take 5 years after starting to get to residency. I have a lot of friends that went to the islands. Some started in Jan, so they had a delay in order to apply for the match. Others took longer (like months) for boards, which US students don't have the luxury of. And worse yet, some had rotations dropped and had todelay graduating. Also, ECFMG certification and a PTAL (only for CA) is pretty important for residency applications, and they take time to get, so for some they end up delaying their ago because of that.

There are others, but I feel like these are the biggest ones. Medical training is probably fine though

1) You have to get ECFMG certification, which is an additional hoop. It was not a big deal.
2) I've posted extensively on applying to residency. The key is to apply broadly in terms of specialties (including a back-up) and widely geographically. The strategies for success in the Match (as well as reasons for failures) are spelled-out on the AMCAS website, which I have also previously linked. People do not do this very smartly, and they pay in terms of money and bad outcome. It always makes sense to go back to the fishing hole where you landed a good catch. Why people think they are going to be special, or different, or lucky beats me.
3) There are U.S. schools - several of them, both M.D. and D.O. - that are far more expensive than many of the proven choices in the Caribbean. Personally, I did all of my cores in New York and finished my training well within 4 years graduating on time. (That is still admittedly one anecdote, but to assert that you are not going to have to travel to do rotations if you go the osteopathy route, or even some M.D. programs now, is disingenuous.)
4) Nice to meet you. I am at least one person (among the majority) who graduated on-time.

It is becoming clear that, like a lot of other posters on this and other sub-forums, you have a very cursory and superficial grasp of the challenges faced pre-, intra-, and post- Caribbean training, likely mostly gleaned from what others have said. Why not stop opining and instead try to broaden your knowledge base and perhaps open your mind to other perspectives?

-Skip

 

[the argus]

This is word for word quoted by a Carib graduate. Proceed to the Carib with caution:
As a Carib graduate, you have more hoops to jump through just to get licensed as an IMG, even if you go to one of the only 5 schools whose degree is recognized by medical boards in all 50 states.
-You, generally speaking, have to apply to more residency programs (50-100% more) than US MDs or DOs even in the less competitive specialties you mentioned. I met a few SGU applicants on the trail. They had similar scores to me, but applied to way more programs to get fewer interviews.
-Cost. It's expensive on the islands. SGU's tuition is also more than almost all US med schools, and is practically double the tuition at most DO schoos. It's also expensive traveling around to rotation sites potentially incompletely different states. You will probably travel for DO schools, but in most you could do a lot of your cores in one system or area.
-Time. I have yet to meet one person that didn't take 5 years after starting to get to residency. I have a lot of friends that went to the islands. Some started in Jan, so they had a delay in order to apply for the match. Others took longer (like months) for boards, which US students don't have the luxury of. And worse yet, some had rotations dropped and had todelay graduating. Also, ECFMG certification and a PTAL (only for CA) is pretty important for residency applications, and they take time to get, so for some they end up delaying their ago because of that.

There are others, but I feel like these are the biggest ones. Medical training is probably fine though

This is very clearly NOT "word for word quoted by a Carib graduate." You know how I know? This sentence,

-You, generally speaking, have to apply to more residency programs (50-100% more) than US MDs or DOs even in the less competitive specialties you mentioned. I met a few SGU applicants on the trail. They had similar scores to me, but applied to way more programs to get fewer interviews.

So it's clearly written by NOT a Caribbean graduate, talking and their opinion of Caribbean graduates.

So this is a second hand account of someone else's second hand account. Great!

You know who are Caribbean graduates? @Skip Intro and myself. Maybe try actually reading what we write...

 

[CleverAdvisor]

Hello,

I'm a Canadian student currently looking to apply to Saba. I originally attended Western without knowing what i wanted to do in life and bombed my undergrad (still managed to graduate) with very low GPA (around 1.5). Currently I'm at york with cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 3.4. I havent written my MCAT yet but i have worked in healthcare for the past 3 years at CT/MRI/US Clinic, volunteered at a local hospital, shadowed radiologists and gp's. I haven't done any research/publications either. While I realize there will be many people who'll be telling me to write the MCAT and ace it, I wanted to know my chances if I were to apply for january class for SABA (they dont have mcat required for Canadians).

Thank you!

While it's possible to get in, the question you should be asking yourself is "should you?"
York is generally regarded as an easy school, and if a 3.2cGPA is what you're getting do you really think you should be trying medical school? The MCAT would be a great idea not just because it can help your application, but because it will give you a good idea where you stand academically. So prove to yourself that you could handle the academic rigors before shelling out huge amounts of money for a dream.

 

[hmania]

This is word for word quoted by a Carib graduate. Proceed to the Carib with caution:
As a Carib graduate, you have more hoops to jump through just to get licensed as an IMG, even if you go to one of the only 5 schools whose degree is recognized by medical boards in all 50 states.
-You, generally speaking, have to apply to more residency programs (50-100% more) than US MDs or DOs even in the less competitive specialties you mentioned. I met a few SGU applicants on the trail. They had similar scores to me, but applied to way more programs to get fewer interviews.
-Cost. It's expensive on the islands. SGU's tuition is also more than almost all US med schools, and is practically double the tuition at most DO schoos. It's also expensive traveling around to rotation sites potentially incompletely different states. You will probably travel for DO schools, but in most you could do a lot of your cores in one system or area.
-Time. I have yet to meet one person that didn't take 5 years after starting to get to residency. I have a lot of friends that went to the islands. Some started in Jan, so they had a delay in order to apply for the match. Others took longer (like months) for boards, which US students don't have the luxury of. And worse yet, some had rotations dropped and had todelay graduating. Also, ECFMG certification and a PTAL (only for CA) is pretty important for residency applications, and they take time to get, so for some they end up delaying their ago because of that.

There are others, but I feel like these are the biggest ones. Medical training is probably fine though

I have been reading this thread. Would like to chime in.
-Applying: In response to applying for more residency programs.... YES YES and YES. I have been pretty open during my whole journey through Ross. I applied to 200 ($4700) programs. My counterparts who went to american schools applied to 80 programs at most. Similar step scores. As a USIMG, I am aware of applying broadly and smart. With this strategy of looking back at the previous match list from SGU, AUA, and Ross... I applied. Got a fair share of interviews. I would say the return percentage was as much as my US counterparts.

-Cost: It is not as expensive to live in Dominica. Tuition for Ross per semester: ~26K. So multiply that times 3 for the year ~$78K. It is a lot compared to US students who get in state tuition. For cores, I did it all in one area... which now Ross have "tracks". These tracks can be all in one hospital or in one area that consists of multiple hospitals. They are located in New York, Chicago, Michigan, California, Miami, Atlanta, Maryland/DC, Connecticut. This is one change that I greatly appreciated on Ross's behalf. The older alumni's all had to travel month by month to different states/cities.

-Time: As a current MS4, I myself will be graduating this May 2018 and started May 2014. Hoping to make it in this Match 2018. So far it looks promising. I have many friends who are graduating on time within 4 years and I bet will match. So it can be done, IF YOU STAY ON TOP OF IT! On the other hand, it is TRUE that some take longer due to delays (unfortunate events, studying time, rotation trouble, paperwork issues for ECFMG) that cause a bump in their road.

-Medical Training: "Different folks different strokes". It all depends on how you perceive of your education, the people you rotate with, and where you do your rotations. I believe that the fundamental medicine that is learned on the island is pretty much 80% self-study. It is truly a sink or swim conclusion on the island. As you make it into core rotations, you start rotation with a group of ~4 people whom you stick it out with for 13 months. If you have great workers and personality... your learning might be enhanced. However, if you have pieces of s***heads whom are lazy and cause drama... then life will be horrible. Even though your education shouldn't be hindered by noise created by others... but it does take a toll. Through Ross, there are horrible hospitals (200 bed) and remarkable hospitals (500+ bed trauma level up the wazoo). The horrible hospitals allow the students to evaluate the patients and perform bedside procedures without hinderance (phlebotomy, foley insertions, IV lines...etc) and the better hospitals will not allow these opportunities as often. For some students, they are naturally lazy and so anything that comes close to work is a bummer. Then they follow everything with a complaint. However, for those who enjoy opportunities... you find it in you no matter where you go or what you do. Even if it is not pleasant.

Cheers. Comment on....

 

[mcat_taker]

This is word for word quoted by a Carib graduate. Proceed to the Carib with caution:
As a Carib graduate, you have more hoops to jump through just to get licensed as an IMG, even if you go to one of the only 5 schools whose degree is recognized by medical boards in all 50 states.
-You, generally speaking, have to apply to more residency programs (50-100% more) than US MDs or DOs even in the less competitive specialties you mentioned. I met a few SGU applicants on the trail. They had similar scores to me, but applied to way more programs to get fewer interviews.
-Cost. It's expensive on the islands. SGU's tuition is also more than almost all US med schools, and is practically double the tuition at most DO schoos. It's also expensive traveling around to rotation sites potentially incompletely different states. You will probably travel for DO schools, but in most you could do a lot of your cores in one system or area.
-Time. I have yet to meet one person that didn't take 5 years after starting to get to residency. I have a lot of friends that went to the islands. Some started in Jan, so they had a delay in order to apply for the match. Others took longer (like months) for boards, which US students don't have the luxury of. And worse yet, some had rotations dropped and had todelay graduating. Also, ECFMG certification and a PTAL (only for CA) is pretty important for residency applications, and they take time to get, so for some they end up delaying their ago because of that.

There are others, but I feel like these are the biggest ones. Medical training is probably fine though

Why do you, as a premed, feel qualified to talk about the match and get into a pissing contest with 2 M.D.s here who have gone through this process?

 

[fujiwara]

Just posting some updates. I've ended up getting receiving acceptance from all the schools I've applied to and am currently attending SGU. We just finished our 2nd exam and started on our 2nd module (90+ average so I'd say I'm doing rather fine as well). While it would've been nice to attend US schools it was highly unrealistic even to get a loan since international tuition fee, which applies to Canadians, came out to approximately 80k annually (at least for the schools I was looking into). In anycase, Ive chosen to stay away from the forums until I've had at least some experience so I can at least contribute a valid point/advice for anyone looking into applying. If there's one thing i've noticed for students who are doing well and those who arent, its got more to do with their mentality and maturity than their past performance. There are plenty of resources for students when it comes to high yield topic reviews, test taking strategies, studying methods and etc. Students who realize their weakness and utilize these facilities tend to do better than students who refuse to acknowledge their weak spots. I've seen kids fail the first two test because they thought they could cram it during last few days, the topic seemed easy to them or they were too busy playing around and tuition cost was nothing to them. This is as much as I can contribute at this point in time. Regardless I did want to put this point out in case there are other students who are in a similar position that I was in a year ago and were worried about their performance in medschool. If you're serious and dont get carried away, you'll be fine. I'll most likely update periodically to properly write out my experience here and hopefully clarify any concerns prospective students may have.

 

[UserUnidentified420]

Just posting some updates. I've ended up getting receiving acceptance from all the schools I've applied to and am currently attending SGU. We just finished our 2nd exam and started on our 2nd module (90+ average so I'd say I'm doing rather fine as well). While it would've been nice to attend US schools it was highly unrealistic even to get a loan since international tuition fee, which applies to Canadians, came out to approximately 80k annually (at least for the schools I was looking into). In anycase, Ive chosen to stay away from the forums until I've had at least some experience so I can at least contribute a valid point/advice for anyone looking into applying. If there's one thing i've noticed for students who are doing well and those who arent, its got more to do with their mentality and maturity than their past performance. There are plenty of resources for students when it comes to high yield topic reviews, test taking strategies, studying methods and etc. Students who realize their weakness and utilize these facilities tend to do better than students who refuse to acknowledge their weak spots. I've seen kids fail the first two test because they thought they could cram it during last few days, the topic seemed easy to them or they were too busy playing around and tuition cost was nothing to them. This is as much as I can contribute at this point in time. Regardless I did want to put this point out in case there are other students who are in a similar position that I was in a year ago and were worried about their performance in medschool. If you're serious and dont get carried away, you'll be fine. I'll most likely update periodically to properly write out my experience here and hopefully clarify any concerns prospective students may have.

Keep giving updates, would love to hear about your experiences! You can do this, good luck.

 

[fujiwara]

Since I finished my first term today and haven't got any plans for the next day or two, i thought I'd come back and update this thread on my experiences in Grenada for other prospective students. Since my experience is still very limited to 1st term, please take it with a grain of salt.

Travelling: I took direct flight from Toronto (since I'm Canadian) and personally havent had any terrible experience. The only negative thing about travelling with air canada (rouge) is that they have very limited amount of flights coming here so sometimes you may be able to book a flight right after exams, or just before classes start. Otherwise, your flight may get scheduled 1 week before classes begin, or 1 week after you finish your exams. I've had friends fly with LIAT and can say none of them have been positive. However, I must note that I can't comment on whether these were isolated incidents or not.

Island: While some people on the forums described the island as somewhat boarder line dangerous, I've been rather fortunate to not experience anything of the sort. I can't comment on why some students get robbed, but for the most part the area surrounding the campus is pretty safe as the securities do patrol around. That being said, they are really relaxed and I question the competency at times, but still, I've had great experience here. I will mention that i didnt really explore the island, or walk around far away from campus by myself. So again, please use common sense. The food here will not be the same as food back home. The restaurants here for the most part do try and make the best of the ingredients available and some even create all sorts of fusion dishes. They help to suppress your cravings and some dishes are really great/unique (i.e crispy ginger beef at the OC, sweet and sour chicken + porkbelly at Flavor house, burgers and fries and burger spoke, etc). These shops are really close to campus too, so its pretty safe to just walk over grab a bite and come back.

Weather: Technically, my term was supposed to be considered the "dry" season. BUT we've had occasional rain and for the most part beautiful weather all week. havent really had the chance to use my poncho but I will let you know post term 2 when its supposed to be "wet" season. It is VERY humid so be prepared to get hit by the humidity when you walk out of that plane.

Pests: Mosquitos. Forget the mosquitos back home because these things are on a whole new level. Allow me to explain. Typically a mosquito back home in Canada will leave a bite size around 1-2cm in diameter, with 1-2mm in elevation, few bites localized bites, moderate itchiness and thats about it. The one time i forgot to put on the mosquito repellant after 5hour time limit, i had 7 bites on each ankle, 6 bites per arm and 2 on my neck. Each bite swelled up to the size of those big cysts people pop on youtube. So, make sure you bring mosquito repellant, after bite, and antihistamine (preferably the one you can rub onto your skin). I've seen a cockroach once and that was outside in an old hall so I dont think you've much to worry about. I havent seen spiders either so thank god.

Lecture material: Forget about how undergrad was paced because here its just full throttle all the time. To give an idea, each lecture contains roughly 27-34 slides and you have 4 lectures a day, 4 days a week with a weekly quiz + labs you'll have to do 2-4 times a week. This was extremely intimidating to me at first, but once i got in the groove, it was manageable. It was much more important to pace myself than just blindly throw myself into the material. Having a steady study schedule, attending DES/review sessions, and addressing any problems early on instead of stubbornly trying to fight it out is probably the best piece of advice I can give from my experience. If you're a prospective student, know that you will feel overwhelmed and thats completely normal. My friends and I (who are all in 85-97 range) have had multiple mental breakdowns per exam. This really became a norm here. Just always remember that you will get through it, just be diligent...and use your skips wisely...save them for MSK/CPR module.

Attrition: This is probably the biggest concern every single person thinking about going to Caribbean is worried about. I know because that was me too. So, while I can't comment on the actual number of attrition for my term, I did record clicker numbers since beginning and end of term. However, there are several things that needs to be mentioned. First, in SGU, unless you're failing horribly, you will not get kicked out immediately. They will either decel you, place you in ITI or both. Second, because there are people in ITI, as well as people who have decelled, these numbers are not indicative of people on their 1st attempt on the term. Third, these numbers are taken via clicker counts so it is variable due to absence, changing cohorts, etc etc etc. Beginning of term we clicked in ~430 students. Post exam 4, we were clicking in ~350. We saw a steady decrease of 20 students per exam. Again, there's no indication here whether they dropped out, received offer from elsewhere and transferred out (a friend of mine did this so I know its partially responsible for decrease), moved cohorts, etc. Take these numbers for what it is but please dont go assuming this is indicative of attrition or anything. With all this being said, if you're studying and not going out every night like some people I've seen here, I'd imagine you'd be fine. From my observation, its people who are not taking it seriously that are failing the term. Just stay on the grind and you'll be fine.

Overall impression of SGU: I like it here. They presented me with the opportunity to pursue medicine when Canada was not willing. The quality of education will not be equal to the one back home, but i can't complain as they constantly grade and survey the students for feedback. The feed back are also implemented to increase quality of education. People here, both faculty and students, have been really friendly and supportive. I cant say whether SGU is better than other schools, but I can only say that from my experience I believe this choice was best for me.

 

[Mknyveld]

Since I finished my first term today and haven't got any plans for the next day or two, i thought I'd come back and update this thread on my experiences in Grenada for other prospective students. Since my experience is still very limited to 1st term, please take it with a grain of salt.

Travelling: I took direct flight from Toronto (since I'm Canadian) and personally havent had any terrible experience. The only negative thing about travelling with air canada (rouge) is that they have very limited amount of flights coming here so sometimes you may be able to book a flight right after exams, or just before classes start. Otherwise, your flight may get scheduled 1 week before classes begin, or 1 week after you finish your exams. I've had friends fly with LIAT and can say none of them have been positive. However, I must note that I can't comment on whether these were isolated incidents or not.

Island: While some people on the forums described the island as somewhat boarder line dangerous, I've been rather fortunate to not experience anything of the sort. I can't comment on why some students get robbed, but for the most part the area surrounding the campus is pretty safe as the securities do patrol around. That being said, they are really relaxed and I question the competency at times, but still, I've had great experience here. I will mention that i didnt really explore the island, or walk around far away from campus by myself. So again, please use common sense. The food here will not be the same as food back home. The restaurants here for the most part do try and make the best of the ingredients available and some even create all sorts of fusion dishes. They help to suppress your cravings and some dishes are really great/unique (i.e crispy ginger beef at the OC, sweet and sour chicken + porkbelly at Flavor house, burgers and fries and burger spoke, etc). These shops are really close to campus too, so its pretty safe to just walk over grab a bite and come back.

Weather: Technically, my term was supposed to be considered the "dry" season. BUT we've had occasional rain and for the most part beautiful weather all week. havent really had the chance to use my poncho but I will let you know post term 2 when its supposed to be "wet" season. It is VERY humid so be prepared to get hit by the humidity when you walk out of that plane.

Pests: Mosquitos. Forget the mosquitos back home because these things are on a whole new level. Allow me to explain. Typically a mosquito back home in Canada will leave a bite size around 1-2cm in diameter, with 1-2mm in elevation, few bites localized bites, moderate itchiness and thats about it. The one time i forgot to put on the mosquito repellant after 5hour time limit, i had 7 bites on each ankle, 6 bites per arm and 2 on my neck. Each bite swelled up to the size of those big cysts people pop on youtube. So, make sure you bring mosquito repellant, after bite, and antihistamine (preferably the one you can rub onto your skin). I've seen a cockroach once and that was outside in an old hall so I dont think you've much to worry about. I havent seen spiders either so thank god.

Lecture material: Forget about how undergrad was paced because here its just full throttle all the time. To give an idea, each lecture contains roughly 27-34 slides and you have 4 lectures a day, 4 days a week with a weekly quiz + labs you'll have to do 2-4 times a week. This was extremely intimidating to me at first, but once i got in the groove, it was manageable. It was much more important to pace myself than just blindly throw myself into the material. Having a steady study schedule, attending DES/review sessions, and addressing any problems early on instead of stubbornly trying to fight it out is probably the best piece of advice I can give from my experience. If you're a prospective student, know that you will feel overwhelmed and thats completely normal. My friends and I (who are all in 85-97 range) have had multiple mental breakdowns per exam. This really became a norm here. Just always remember that you will get through it, just be diligent...and use your skips wisely...save them for MSK/CPR module.

Attrition: This is probably the biggest concern every single person thinking about going to Caribbean is worried about. I know because that was me too. So, while I can't comment on the actual number of attrition for my term, I did record clicker numbers since beginning and end of term. However, there are several things that needs to be mentioned. First, in SGU, unless you're failing horribly, you will not get kicked out immediately. They will either decel you, place you in ITI or both. Second, because there are people in ITI, as well as people who have decelled, these numbers are not indicative of people on their 1st attempt on the term. Third, these numbers are taken via clicker counts so it is variable due to absence, changing cohorts, etc etc etc. Beginning of term we clicked in ~430 students. Post exam 4, we were clicking in ~350. We saw a steady decrease of 20 students per exam. Again, there's no indication here whether they dropped out, received offer from elsewhere and transferred out (a friend of mine did this so I know its partially responsible for decrease), moved cohorts, etc. Take these numbers for what it is but please dont go assuming this is indicative of attrition or anything. With all this being said, if you're studying and not going out every night like some people I've seen here, I'd imagine you'd be fine. From my observation, its people who are not taking it seriously that are failing the term. Just stay on the grind and you'll be fine.

Overall impression of SGU: I like it here. They presented me with the opportunity to pursue medicine when Canada was not willing. The quality of education will not be equal to the one back home, but i can't complain as they constantly grade and survey the students for feedback. The feed back are also implemented to increase quality of education. People here, both faculty and students, have been really friendly and supportive. I cant say whether SGU is better than other schools, but I can only say that from my experience I believe this choice was best for me.

Thank you so much for updating this thread, and I hope you continue to do so. I'm an older student, considering medicine, and wondering if a Caribbean education might be the way to achieve it - and I'm also Canadian. I believe we have a similar mentality about our future careers, so I'm really invested in seeing how your journey proceeds! Wishing you continued success!

 

[795722]

People don't get it. The problem is not the education being offered but the chances of matching. you could be a freaking rockstar in Caribbean and still not match.

 

[the argus]

People don't get it. The problem is not the education being offered but the chances of matching. you could be a freaking rockstar in Caribbean and still not match.

Yea, this is not true at all.

Yes there are specialties that are mostly off-limits for Caribbean grads. But if you are "a freaking rockstar in Caribbean" and are realistic and smart about your residency application, you are almost guaranteed a residency position.

How do I know this? 2,900 US-IMGs matched into PGY1 positions through the NRMP this past year, the vast majority of whom are from Caribbean schools. Ross alone had >600 and SGU >900 in 2018 with residency placement. Unless you are going to argue that there are >1500 "freaking rockstars" coming from those 2 schools, then your point in nonsense.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf