Shaving down cost of attendance

[SnowyRox]

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These numbers are for Penn residents, but the same concept certainly applies to every veterinary school.

Tuition, general fee, instructional fee: $ 36, 948

Room: $12,000 - $1333 (9 months), $1000 (12 months) - really? a palace??? I can rent a nice (but tiny) studio near Penn for $650/month (+$50 in utilities)

Board: $5,000 - $555 (9 months), $415 (12 months) in food..... ??? What else would you include in board? Because I think that I could eat weekly at Le Bec Fin if I am on that budget.

Books/computer/instruments: $3,000 - laptop, microscope, dissection kit first year. Where is this money going years 2,3,4?

Miscellaneous: $6,500 - $722/month (9 months), $541 (12 months) - health insurance, car insurance, petrol, car repairs, AAA, ???

Penn says they have designed this budget to sustain students for 9 months, but thankfully it's more than generous enough to last for 12 months. How accurate do current students think their schools COA is when you budget carefully? Some places (i.e. books/computer/instruments and rent) I think the budget could be slashed significantly.

Do you think it's good & necessary for the schools to overestimate so much or do you think it encourages reckless use of loan money?

*If you're confused, I edited my #s b/c I copied the wrong ones initially... whoops!

 

[jmo1012]

These numbers are for Penn residents, but the same concept certainly applies to every veterinary school.

Tuition, general fee, instructional fee: $ 36, 948

Room: $16,000 - $1777 (9 months), $1333 (12 months) - really? a palace??? I can rent a nice (but tiny) studio near Penn for $650/month (+$50 in utilities)

Board: $6,600 - $733 (9 months), $550 (12 months) in food..... ??? What else would you include in board? Because I think that I could eat weekly at Le Bec Fin if I am on that budget.

Books/computer/instruments: $3,000 - laptop, microscope, dissection kit first year. Where is this money going years 2,3,4?

Miscellaneous: $6,500 - $722/month (9 months), $541 (12 months) - health insurance, car insurance, petrol, car repairs, AAA, ???

Penn says they have designed this budget to sustain students for 9 months, but thankfully it's more than generous enough to last for 12 months. How accurate do current students think their schools COA is when you budget carefully? Some places (i.e. books/computer/instruments and rent) I think the budget could be slashed significantly.

Do you think it's good & necessary for the schools to overestimate so much or do you think it encourages reckless use of loan money?

😱 thats 30k more a year than what i'm paying at sgu! (20k if you go with their recommended loan guide)😱

 

[SnowyRox]

😱 thats 30k more a year than what i'm paying at sgu! (20k if you go with their recommended loan guide)😱

So you spend $30k on tuition + living expenses? I thought SGU tuition was around $30k. (I tried to google SGU coa, but didn't come up with anything concrete quickly)

Yeah, I am wrestling with Penn's cost vs. other schools I've been accepted into... but I think Penn will probably win 🙂.

 

[sunnex3]

i was thinking the same thing about penn....and also, what happens if you end up not using all of the loan money you are given? that's the biggest thing that i am afraid of, because i'm pretty sure i won't be spending >$1000/month on rent!

 

[Dsmoody23]

i was thinking the same thing about penn....and also, what happens if you end up not using all of the loan money you are given? that's the biggest thing that i am afraid of, because i'm pretty sure i won't be spending >$1000/month on rent!

Can you just cycle it back into payment?

With my UG loan, if I ended up with unused money at the end of the semester, I just apply it to the balance. Hopefully before the interest kicks in.

 

[SnowyRox]

i was thinking the same thing about penn....and also, what happens if you end up not using all of the loan money you are given? that's the biggest thing that i am afraid of, because i'm pretty sure i won't be spending >$1000/month on rent!

You can just return unused $$$. It's not the smartest plan b/c you'll pay 3 months of interest on it (grrrr...I miss subsidized loans), but better than using all the loan money!

 

[pooter]

Yeah, I didn't borrow anywhere near the estimated COA. I'm thinking the overestimation might be partly for those who have families/kids/SO's who might need the support. I'm sure it's also helpful for those dealing with farrier and stable board fees. My plan is to just borrow less next year if I have any leftover monies. Or maybe add it to my "I'm getting a dog, dammit" fund. 😀

Caution, though; while you certainly don't need $550 a month, food seems to be more expensive here than out in the boonies where I grew up (especially if you shop at the Fresh Grocer closest to school).

 

[sunnex3]

the cost of food in general is just more expensive, even take-out and things like that. food carts are a good alternative though sometimes to get cheap tasty food -- during some of my UG semesters when i was less blessed with the $$$ i ate from the food carts on penn's campus more often than i'd like to admit...

 

[cowgirla]

I'd rather be in your situation than running out of money at the end of each semester.and stressing about bills during finals weeks
Once tuition, fees and rent is paid, I'm left with <2500 a semester . There is no way that money would also cover summer.
Fall semester money needs to cover September- Jan. That's less than 500 a month to cover all utilites (heat/electric/water/trash/utility fees/ambulance fee/internet/phone- NO cable) (~200/month), car insurance (~90), renters insurance (~10), gas (~75), and food (I would rather drop out than eat ramen. my body cannot handle that). Thankfully my father pays my health insurance. This is not including any textbooks/school supplies I need to buy, vet bills, buying a new thermometer when mine gets crushed, new clinic shoes when the soles fall off, new scrubs when they rip, medication my insurance won't cover, credit card from the August (when I'm back in school, need stuff, but loans havent come through yet). The list never ends.

Yay for being a vet student and working 2 jobs.

Sure, I could probably move and save a bit in rent, but I like being close to the school, I like having some space to myself, the convenience of a washer/dryer right in the house, etc. Is saving a little bit of money each month worth giving up my convenience/happiness? I looked at similar houses a little farther away and could maybe save ~100 a month. Or I could give up the house altogether and not have a yard for my dogs. I'd rather keep working!

 

[jmo1012]

So you spend $30k on tuition + living expenses? I thought SGU tuition was around $30k. (I tried to google SGU coa, but didn't come up with anything concrete quickly)

Yeah, I am wrestling with Penn's cost vs. other schools I've been accepted into... but I think Penn will probably win 🙂.

*more* was the key word 🙂 but tuition is about $27k a year and then I'm looking at paying ~$40k total for the year. SGU recommends loans at $52k per year

 

[Maddiegirl]

I'd rather be in your situation than running out of money at the end of each semester.and stressing about bills during finals weeks
Once tuition, fees and rent is paid, I'm left with <2500 a semester . There is no way that money would also cover summer.
Fall semester money needs to cover September- Jan. That's less than 500 a month to cover all utilites (heat/electric/water/trash/utility fees/ambulance fee/internet/phone- NO cable) (~200/month), car insurance (~90), renters insurance (~10), gas (~75), and food (I would rather drop out than eat ramen. my body cannot handle that). Thankfully my father pays my health insurance. This is not including any textbooks/school supplies I need to buy, vet bills, buying a new thermometer when mine gets crushed, new clinic shoes when the soles fall off, new scrubs when they rip, medication my insurance won't cover, credit card from the August (when I'm back in school, need stuff, but loans havent come through yet). The list never ends.

Yay for being a vet student and working 2 jobs.

Sure, I could probably move and save a bit in rent, but I like being close to the school, I like having some space to myself, the convenience of a washer/dryer right in the house, etc. Is saving a little bit of money each month worth giving up my convenience/happiness? I looked at similar houses a little farther away and could maybe save ~100 a month. Or I could give up the house altogether and not have a yard for my dogs. I'd rather keep working!

How do you do it without going insane. I can't imagine trying to juggle vet school and working two jobs. I can't barely handle my pre-req classes and a full time job.

 

[OH Bunny Girl]

Yay for being a vet student and working 2 jobs.

I thought the point of the COA loans was so you didn't have to work?

 

[cowgirla]

How do you do it without going insane. I can't imagine trying to juggle vet school and working two jobs. I can't barely handle my pre-req classes and a full time job.

Overnight shifts on weekends. Usually 2 weekends a month, with the option of picking up more, especially over holidays and breaks. Its at the teaching hospital so I can study in between rounds.

And a training horse- which is flexible hours/flexible days, as long as I get out there 2-3 times a week for about an hour each time. I get paid monthly so don't have to worry about sticking to an exact schedule or exact times. If it wasn't so flexible I don't think I could do it.

And the COA does cover "Attendence" and all bills. It just doesn't leave any room for emergencies, unexpected expenses, or a little bit to have fun. And I refuse to go through vet school without having some fun. It's also how I justify living close to the school and living alone. I wouldn't give that up for anything, because I know it would affect me in other adverse ways (ie, grades).

 

[sunnex3]

another question i had was, where does $$ for utilities (gas or electric, water, trash, cable, internet, etc.) go under? is it under room and board? misc?

 

[bunnity]

I took the full Penn COA this year. I pay $700/month for rent and I'm a big cheapo when it comes to spending money on stuff. I estimate that without working in the summer, I would need all the money for rent and food. With the summer job I intend to have, I will put the extra money into the used car I will need to make it to New Bolton fourth year.

I have a pretty uncomplicated life and I don't think the COA gives that much margin for error even for someone like me. Moving to Philly was a slap in the face with how expensive everything is, especially food and rent (esp if you want a nonsketchy landlord). If you have any extra complications (sick pet, healthy horse 😛, car, medical problem, can't find a summer job) I think things could get bad really quickly.

Also that $50 / utilities would only cover electric around here. Don't forget internet (very necessary for school), heat (running me $300 a month split with my girlfriend right now 😡) and water (which some landlords want you to pay). As far as the rent budget, it's standard to pay first+last+security here - so add on an extra 2 months of rent that you won't see until you move out.

 

[sooprnova]

Room: $12,000 - $1333 (9 months), $1000 (12 months) - really? a palace???

You might be able to rent a palace for $1000/month in Philly if you have two roommates and that's what each of you pay.

I'm cranky and bitter about apartment hunting in Philly. It's my fault for being older and married and not getting to split rent with a roommate. And yeah, I'm probably a little spoiled, too. My husband and I just sat down and reconfigured our budget for while I'm in school to accommodate for rent of up to $1800/month.

My situation is a lot different than someone who just finished undergrad, though. Like I said, I'm probably a little spoiled, and we have a LOT of furniture. Plus, we need to live somewhere safe, and preferably with a doorman/24-hour security, as my husband will be spending 4-5 nights a week away from home for work. I'm totally comfortable living in questionable neighborhoods (grew up in one), but husband wouldn't be able to sleep at night, and I kind of like him enough to make him happy.

So yeah, I think the COA is a little inflated if you can live in a teeny studio, if you're willing to live in a slightly less safe area in a larger place, or if you're splitting rent and utilities with a couple roommates. Otherwise, I think it's pretty accurate. If my husband wasn't making good money, I'd definitely be looking at taking the full COA every year. Now I'm (perhaps stupidly) optimistic about only taking the federal amount.

Like others have said, you also need to think about those things that you spend money but probably don't think of, like medications for pets, doctor's visits, $$ to travel to visit family over breaks, new pants when you bend over to grab the pen you dropped and yours split right down the rear (yep, happened to me today), the occasional night of debauchery (unless you're a PBR kind of person), shampoo, laundry, vitamins, oil changes, etc., etc.

In case you haven't noticed, I've been sort of stressing about the whole "paying for vet school while not living like a crazy homeless cat lady" thing. 😀

 

[breenie]

I think the bottom line is: results may vary.

I did not take out all of my loans this year, because I thought I didn't have to. Circumstances changed, and I wish I had. I'll be fine, just a little less... luxurious.

The strategy here for OOSers (similar tuition rate, lower living expenses as you), was to just take out the max, and adjust accordingly next year. Wish I had done that. Oh well.

 

[SnowyRox]

sunnex3: I would consider utilities to go under "board." It is somewhere inbetween "room" and "board" because some landlords lump heating/electric/trash in with the rent of a room.

cowgirla: color me impressed. 2 jobs! I want to work a few hours a week at the local co-op and wondering if I'll have time, lol.

sooprnova: I definitely see how you could spend the whole COA living in Philly, but I don't think it's necessary to do so. If spending the whole amount makes your quality of life with your husband higher, then go for it! I will probably spend the whole food budget... I love meat & berries too much to buy cheap & seasonal all the time.

bunnity: love the input from someone who actually lives at Penn! The apartments I was looking at lumped everything except electric into the rent. I do always forget about internet, though. I lived on campus all through undergrad (required at my college) so I've never paid for utilities separately.

 

[NittanyKitty]

I can speak from experience here at NCSU - I made my own budget as I was accepting loans for starting second year, and when I added everything up was within about $2,500 of their cost of attendance. So I did accept less in loans...but not very much less. Philly is expensive. It's a major metro area on one of the coasts, so that comes with the territory. I'd bet that while you can certainly cut corners and live frugally, you might easily come close to that COA figure. It's one of the reasons I turned down Penn's offer, moved from my home state, and went somewhere with a cheaper price tag.

Also, while getting a bargain on an apartment is great (I'm a George Costanza too!), I'll warn you that West Philly is NOT the place to go on the cheap. Buildings are old, buildings are dirty, and buildings are downright dangerous. You need to know where you are apartment hunting because the neighborhoods turn from perfectly safe to "get a pitbull or a gun if you plan to walk outside past 6 pm" in the space of a block or two. Be sure you talk to current students about exactly where to live before signing any leases!

 

[NStarz]

"get a pitbull or a gun if you plan to walk outside past 6 pm"

😱😱😱😕😕😕

 

[FLbulldog]

😱😱😱😕😕😕

My thoughts exactly... Didn't expect to see this on a veterinary-related forum...

 

[NittanyKitty]

My thoughts exactly... Didn't expect to see this on a veterinary-related forum...

This is actually what I was told by a student when I interviewed at Penn and asked how to go about finding a place to live. Said student had been mugged more than once and was extremely *cough* passionate about helping others avoid making "oops" choices about living situations. And Penn is just one example. Any time you are moving to an unknown place, especially a large city, it is really tough to get a feel for where is safe and where is sketch without exploring yourself or asking a lot of questions.

And an edit - I don't mean to offend anyone! I hardly believe pitties are "dangerous" or that owning a weapon is the answer to a fearless life. The student I spoke with was incredibly blunt and honest about the need to do real research before choosing a place to live, and I'm just passing along those words. They definitely stuck with me from two years ago.

 

[sooprnova]

😱😱😱😕😕😕

Yeah, there are some really bad neighborhoods, but I don't think they're where vet students tend to live. In the sketchier areas, I'd reduce this to "don't be an idiot; you live in a city."

 

[sunnex3]

sunnex3: I would consider utilities to go under "board." It is somewhere inbetween "room" and "board" because some landlords lump heating/electric/trash in with the rent of a room.

cowgirla: color me impressed. 2 jobs! I want to work a few hours a week at the local co-op and wondering if I'll have time, lol.

sooprnova: I definitely see how you could spend the whole COA living in Philly, but I don't think it's necessary to do so. If spending the whole amount makes your quality of life with your husband higher, then go for it! I will probably spend the whole food budget... I love meat & berries too much to buy cheap & seasonal all the time.

bunnity: love the input from someone who actually lives at Penn! The apartments I was looking at lumped everything except electric into the rent. I do always forget about internet, though. I lived on campus all through undergrad (required at my college) so I've never paid for utilities separately.

what apartments have you been looking into snowyrox? i'm trying to find a 2BR with a potential roommate and not having much success. either too expensive (but awesome) or the right price but something isn't right. UGH.

 

[NStarz]

Yeah, there are some really bad neighborhoods, but I don't think they're where vet students tend to live. In the sketchier areas, I'd reduce this to "don't be an idiot; you live in a city."

That's not what I was referring to sooprnova, but the discriminatory language used by nittany referring to pit bulls as being needed in the same realm as a gun in dangerous neighborhoods.

Thanks for clarifying, nittany. I am glad to hear you say that it was not you who made that comment.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[NittanyKitty]

That's not what I was referring to sooprnova, but the discriminatory language used by nittany referring to pit bulls as being needed in the same realm as a gun in dangerous neighborhoods.

Thanks for clarifying, nittany. I am glad to hear you say that it was not you who made that comment.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Yeah, I figured that's what earned the shocked response - definitely apologize for that because I know it bothered you (it bothers me too when such statements are generally made). FWIW I am totally against breed-specific legislation and the belief that certain breeds should be treated no differently than a loaded weapon. I guess the reason that those words are still one of things I remember clearest about that day was because of the shock factor and because this was a veterinary student saying them. It just really spoke to me that safety is nothing to play around with.

 

[Dsmoody23]

Yeah, I figured that's what earned the shocked response - definitely apologize for that because I know it bothered you (it bothers me too when such statements are generally made). FWIW I am totally against breed-specific legislation and the belief that certain breeds should be treated no differently than a loaded weapon. I guess the reason that those words are still one of things I remember clearest about that day was because of the shock factor and because this was a veterinary student saying them. It just really spoke to me that safety is nothing to play around with.

There's not anything too crazy about that statement.

The comparison to a gun is a bit ridiculous, but if you live in a crap neighborhood, chances are, the folks who would bother you won't mess with pits. Because they know that a pit raised to be mean is dangerous.

I have two completely socialized, wimpy pit bulls. They're utter babies. But nobody in my neighborhood needs to know that. And when we walk at night, nobody comes near me.

Cheaper, and exponentially safer than keeping a gun in the house. And they get to play with the neighborhood kids at the park when nobody is looking.

 

[SnowyRox]

wow.... this thread took an unexpected turn overnight!

No, I'm not looking in dangerous parts of the city. It's not the Rittenhouse, but it's not North Philly either.

This is an interesting map of Philly created with the intent to show where it's safe to live. I wouldn't trust the borders 100%, but it's a good guideline to start your search from. The zones correlate with the homicide map from (http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/homicide_map_2007/) I'm from Philly suburbs and have spent a fair bit of time wandering around the green areas (center city, university city, rittenhouse square, chinatown) and some time driving (terrified) through some of the red areas in North Philly. FYI, don't trust your gps to take you through safe neighborhoods when driving home at night! Lesson learned.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=u...482,-75.172577&spn=0.228537,0.528374&t=h&z=12

And I would totally love a Rottie to run with, but I don't think he would appreciate being cooped up in an apartment while I'm at school all day.

 

[PetPony]

My pit is such a baby. I love her.

But I don't think that statement was really that bad considering a big part of the public still thinks they are dangerous and you shouldn't get too close to one. So while we know that they are awesome, others would never get close to one, which is exactly what the purpose was of that statement, I think.

Love my pit though. 😍

 

[NittanyKitty]

I heart me some sweet pits. 🙂 They are really fantastic dogs. I've always had GSDs so I know the feeling of, "While I know they wouldn't hurt a fly, I'm not necessarily going to correct the common perception of the breed while I walk them alone at night."

And as far as checking out safety of certain neighborhoods and what-not before you move somewhere new, I was given a piece of advice during my search. Once you have your building/area/complex picked out you can always call the police and ask them what they know about it. Do they get a lot of calls? What id their crime rate for the area? Most are willing to help you avoid a tough spot before moving.