Shelter/Kennel Question - Advice or Help

[No Imagination]

Ok, long story made short.

The Kennel I worked for most of my life (and still have strong ties to) have recently been getting outbreaks of "Kennel Cough". Call it what you will, Upper Respiratory Infection, Bordetella, Distemper, whatever. Very rarely have any of the vets been willing to determine the actually culprit, and its probably not the same outbreak to outbreak.

What the Kennel does (and I worked there, its legit). 1x day, the entire building (~80 runs) gets broken down (indoor/outdoor runs) and they get disinfected. They used to use Nolvasan, think they are back to trying a 10% Bleach solution, let sit and completely hosed out.

They've moved to 2 complete sets of food bowls (one soaks overnight to disinfect)

2-3 times a year, they end up with a "Kennel Cough" outbreak. In reality, we are talking about <0.5% of their business, but since repeat business is their life blood...

In the last two years, they have gotten super strict with shot records (need Bordetella and Distemper min. of 2 weeks prior to boarding)

This latest outbreak cost them $1,000's in lost revenue and vet bills (they pick up all vet bills) and looks bad for business (they had to turn away all the incoming clients for the week).

To make matters worse, EVERY dog that got sick in this last outbreak (22 dogs) were up to date on all vaccines.

A few 'regulars' came down with it as well (in case stress induced immuno compromisation is on your minds).

Ohh, and the animals NEVER come in contact with each other (only us (I guess we can be vectors? but there has to be a solution))

Any thoughts? Of course they have consulted with vets, but the vets get annoyed when you point out that the vaccinated dog has gotten sick.

Any thoughts or ideas? What they can do different?

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[david594]

The Kennel I worked for most of my life (and still have strong ties to) have recently been getting outbreaks of "Kennel Cough". Call it what you will, Upper Respiratory Infection, Bordetella, Distemper, whatever. Very rarely have any of the vets been willing to determine the actually culprit, and its probably not the same outbreak to outbreak.

Call it what you will? Well don't call it bordetella or distemper unless you know its actually one of those. Non-specific URI, sure?

Ohh, and the animals NEVER come in contact with each other (only us (I guess we can be vectors? but there has to be a solution))

Staff definitely could be a major part of it. I work in a shelter and we make a big deal about disinfecting both ourselves and any materials between different animals.

Any thoughts? Of course they have consulted with vets, but the vets get annoyed when you point out that the vaccinated dog has gotten sick.

Any thoughts or ideas? What they can do different?

Consult with a vet who actually cares about finding the source of your issues. I wonder if you guys could find a vet who has done a shelter residency or one with experience in a shelter setting to come in and evaluate your practices.

 

[No Imagination]

Call it what you will? Well don't call it bordetella or distemper unless you know its actually one of those. Non-specific URI, sure?

Your right about that, but when the client comes back from their vet, they are rarely told their dog has a 'non-specific URI", instead they are told they caught 'kennel cough'. I was referencing my understanding concerning the ambiguity of that diagnosis (at the kennel, we always had to refer to it as "Canine Respiratory Disease"

Staff definitely could be a major part of it. I work in a shelter and we make a big deal about disinfecting both ourselves and any materials between different animals.

How do you handle clothing (drool on pants, cloths, ect.)? We do offer exercise (lease) for all dogs everyday (weather and temperament permitting). Might we have to discontinue that policy?

Consult with a vet who actually cares about finding the source of your issues. I wonder if you guys could find a vet who has done a shelter residency or one with experience in a shelter setting to come in and evaluate your practices.

We have an on call vet. Don't know if you would call him a shelter vet, but he works at a shelter 2-3 days a week.

I did notice that Idexx now offers a "Canine Respiratory Disease (CRD) Panel (detects seven pathogens in one blood sample)" - I will have to let them know that.

Thanks for your advice!

 

[david594]

How do you handle clothing (drool on pants, cloths, ect.)? We do offer exercise (lease) for all dogs everyday (weather and temperament permitting). Might we have to discontinue that policy?

I wish I could help you with that one. The majority of what we work with are cats(and where our URI issues tend to occur). So its hand sanitizer for us and lots of trifectant for everything else.

I did notice that Idexx now offers a "Canine Respiratory Disease (CRD) Panel (detects seven pathogens in one blood sample)" - I will have to let them know that.

Thanks for your advice!

The CRD panel sounds pretty cool but (here is my highly uneducated thoughts) a positive result on those tests doesn't necessarily indicate that is the cause of the infection.

Also the fact that it happens in such isolated pockets as you mention, finding out exactly what the cause is for a given event might have little signifigance to the next time it happens as your instances seem to be unrelated and not from a persistent cause.

 

[No Imagination]

Also the fact that it happens in such isolated pockets as you mention, finding out exactly what the cause is for a given event might have little signifigance to the next time it happens as your instances seem to be unrelated and not from a persistent cause.

Thats why I'm trying to come up with "policy" changes for them.

Also going to see if we can get some of those dogs back to take blood and send it out. I don't remember that CRD test when i worked as a tech, may be new. Think it is a real time PCR, or qPCR, so i guess vaccines will not interfere.

 

[david594]

Fairly new, and real time PCR.

http://www.idexx.com/animalhealth/laboratory/realpcr/tests/641602.pdf

 

[Pandacinny]

It makes sense that you'd still see dogs with kennel cough, despite having been vaccinated. Saying "kennel cough" is like saying "common cold" in people - it's a general term for a set of symptoms caused by many different agents. The vaccine those dogs got could have been for one complex, but if the actual infection was from another, it wouldn't matter much. There's a good info page here: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=600&S=0&EVetID=0

Basically, you're seeing problems caused by crowded conditions and stress (and yes, regular borders are still often stressed, even if they don't seem so.) I'm not sure what the good would be of having the dogs come back in for blood testing. It's not like there's a vaccine for every cause and if they're coming in infected with something that doesn't have a vaccine, there's not much you can do about it preventative-wise. What good is it going to do for you to know EXACTLY what caused each separate, unrelated incident really? Will you be able to require a different vaccine before they come in? Will it change the incidence you're seeing at all? Plus, calling owners back in for a blood test would probably be expensive and could cause them to worry unnecessarily.

I guess a good start would be making sure dogs are vaccinated far enough in advance for the vaccine to actually start providing some protection. The day before they come to the kennel is probably a little late, for example. Also, you'll want to look at engineering controls - good ventilation and the ability to isolate individuals who show signs of infection once they come in.

Finally, YES your kennel workers CAN act as vectors. You could carry it on your clothes or hands. If you have infected dogs housed in the same building as newly received, non-infected dogs, it's not a bad idea to have separate staff dealing with them entirely. Also not a bad idea to bring lots of extra scrubs and COMPLETELY change them between infected/non-infected dogs if separate staff isn't possible. Hand washing should be routine between ALL animals at ALL times, anyways, since you've got so many coming in and out. Glove changing (if you wear gloves) isn't sufficient - you need to actually wash your hands (and do it right!) plus completely dry them every time. Or use instant hand sanitizer if you can't wash (and that also needs to be done right - use the full dispensed amount, rub it in completely till it dries. Don't wipe off the extra!)

Sorry for the hand washing rant. I've gotten a little frustrated with kennel workers in the past who just couldn't be bothered and who then wonder "Gee, why's everyone getting a URI? It's not like we let the animals play together..." as they go grab the next dog to play with him, with their clothes covered in the sick dog's hair and their hands covered in his spit. 🙄

 

[No Imagination]

Good points Pandacinny,

We don't wear gloves and don't wash our hands in between animals. Its just not feasible (typically we handle 40 - 50 dogs a morning, sometimes more).

That said, all dogs which show any symptom's are removed immediately, and sent to their vet (or our on call vet).

Also, vaccinations must be done 2 weeks prior to boarding.

Well, I do appreciate the advice

 

[david594]

Good points Pandacinny,

We don't wear gloves and don't wash our hands in between animals. Its just not feasible (typically we handle 40 - 50 dogs a morning, sometimes more).

That said, all dogs which show any symptom's are removed immediately, and sent to their vet (or our on call vet).

Also, vaccinations must be done 2 weeks prior to boarding.

Well, I do appreciate the advice

If hand washing isn't feasible then at least get the instant hand sanitizer.

But it sounds like you guys probably have bigger issues with cross contamination between animals.

 

[Pandacinny]

Not to sound flip/rude or anything but I used to work in a shelter where I washed or instantly sanitized my hands between animals EVERY time and I handled probably that many cats per day alone, plus dogs, plus rabbits and guinea pigs. I then worked in labs where I'd change hundreds of mouse cages daily in rapid succession and my (gloved) hands would be sanitized between every cage, every time. It's definitely doable and a good idea. 40-50 animals is not that bad - you just need to get into the habit and make it happen.

Putting up instant hand sainitize stations wouldn't be a bad idea, as David said. You should be able to purchase them from your cleaning product distributor, plus the bottles to keep them refilled.

 

[Pandacinny]

Also, these guidelines might be helpful. They're about infection control in small animal clinics, but I'm sure you could adjust some of the guidelines to meet your needs. A good thing to do here is to make sure you're cleaning and disinfecting things the right way with appropriate chemicals, appropriate contact time, etc.

http://www.ccar-ccra.com/english/humanhealth-ipc-e.shtml

 

[StealthDog]

Since respiratory pathogens are often airborne, it's important to consider air circulation too... Do you have some sort of fan system set up for adequate air exchange?

Do the dogs ever have nose-to-nose contact?

 

[No Imagination]

No 'nose to nose' contact (they can see each other, about 5-6' separation) and they are housed in 6'w x 12'L runs (indoor) and 6'x15' (outdoor).

Huge ventilation fans, but they can only be used a few hours during the day (when the dogs are exercised and the place is being disinfected). During the dead winter, and middle of summer, the fans are not usually turned on. It is a very large building, and takes hours to cool/heat it after those fans have been on (and after the dogs have been outside in winter/summer, its pretty important to have the building at a comfortable temperature for them when they come inside).

Concerning the hand disinfectants. I know what you are saying, you may be 100% right, and I don't mean to sound ungrateful (contrary, I've already passed that on), but it is not feasible. But with 5 workers, each handling so many animals a day, I can see more problems associated with that.

Perhaps if I can find some mild non-alcoholic sanitizers that may be a workable compromise.

These guys have been in business ~40 years. They do good work (charge 40 - $50.00 per day, 3-4 months out of the year there is a wait list, and they can accommodate 120 dogs).

The're willing to spend the money to make this go away - to sanitize hands (and I assume clothing?!) in between all animal handing might just be asking too much however (not financially, implementation). In addition to the #'s, on any day 30 new dogs are coming in, 30 are leaving.

 

[guppy73]

Some good basic info (some of which has already been mentioned) can be found here: http://www.animalsheltering.org/res...cles/jan_feb_1997/uri_kennelcough_feature.pdf

I noticed that you mention using bleach to disinfect. While bleach is good, it doesn't kill things in organic material (saliva, mucus, etc.). Are the workers there just spraying/pouring a bleach solution on everything, figuring that it will kill it? If so, that might be part of the problem. All that gunk needs to be removed first.

Also--and I'd be curious as to opinions on this myself--are the Bordetella vaccines intranasal or injectable? We use intranasal at the shelter where I work but still see kennel cough; however, many of the dogs have never been vaccinated before coming into the shelter. I wonder if, in your case, the injectable vaccine might be better? I don't have any experience with it myself....Thoughts, anyone?

 

[No Imagination]

Some good basic info (some of which has already been mentioned) can be found here: http://www.animalsheltering.org/res...cles/jan_feb_1997/uri_kennelcough_feature.pdf

I noticed that you mention using bleach to disinfect. While bleach is good, it doesn't kill things in organic material (saliva, mucus, etc.). Are the workers there just spraying/pouring a bleach solution on everything, figuring that it will kill it? If so, that might be part of the problem. All that gunk needs to be removed first.

Also--and I'd be curious as to opinions on this myself--are the Bordetella vaccines intranasal or injectable? We use intranasal at the shelter where I work but still see kennel cough; however, many of the dogs have never been vaccinated before coming into the shelter. I wonder if, in your case, the injectable vaccine might be better? I don't have any experience with it myself....Thoughts, anyone?

From what I remember, intranasal is supposed to protect the animal faster, but could create a potential carrier for a short time to unvaccinated dogs. I have NO idea if that is true or not, but I did hear it from a vet while I worked as a tech. Injected was supposed to take longer to generate an adequate immune response.

As for the Bleach. I personally am against its use in this situation. I haven't read up in it in a while, but i recall bleach + organic waste = potential carcinogenic agent. Ill look into that in a few days, have some work on a deadline.

As for how it is used, it is attached to a hose (bottle attached to nozzle like in car washes) and it is sprayed in the runs, breaking up remaining organic mater while its applied.

 

[david594]

Whats wrong with the alcohol based hand sanitizers? We use both where I am, and personally I tend to prefer the alcohol based ones.

Also if you arnt too keen on bleach then you should look into trifectant or kennelsol.

 

[guppy73]

I second the Trifectant and/or KennelSol--we rotate between the two at our shelter. We do use bleach on occasion, alternating between that & Trifectant, in cases of parvo, panleuk, etc. The main downside with Trifectant is that it's on the expensive side.

Don't know about the carcinogenic properties of bleach in conjunction with organic matter....but it's certainly a respiratory irritant. Maybe it's exacerbating the problem in your case? And by spraying it on kennel surfaces without that mechanical removal first, it may just be moving snot around more.

The reason I ask about the vaccine in your situation is that you'd mentioned that the dogs are being vaxed at least 2 weeks prior to entering the kennel. In my situation, we want them to be protected as quickly as possible, so we do intranasal. But I remember hearing somewhere down the line that it has a low efficacy rate--somewhere around 60%. (Dogs struggle, blow a bunch of it out upon administration, etc...) I wonder if injectable is more effective and a better option for dogs being vaxed in advance like this. Again, I don't use it, so I'm not sure....

Just my $.02--and the first time I'm posting on the VET forum!

 

[No Imagination]

Whats wrong with the alcohol based hand sanitizers?

If we actually implemented that, we would be putting alcohol on our hands, +50x a day, 7 days a week. Imagine what that would do to your skin.

And by spraying it on kennel surfaces without that mechanical removal first, it may just be moving snot around more.

We do do mechanical removal first, i was referring to the little bits that stick around (get removed later during high pressure hosing while applying disinfectant)

 

[Pandacinny]

If we actually implemented that, we would be putting alcohol on our hands, +50x a day, 7 days a week. Imagine what that would do to your skin.

Again, don't have to imagine - I already DO it. You use lotion liberally and you purchase gentler products. Remember, you're not the ONLY one dealing with so many animals in a day. Many of the rest of us do and have, in a variety of settings. It IS possible to use good infection control techniques in your kennel, and hand-washing or sanitizing is one of the most important parts of this. It just takes a little bit of work until habits are changed.

If the problem isn't big enough to bother with the minor inconvenience of using lotion and sanitizer, then why bother worrying about it at all? Also, why would anyone in their right mind ever CONSIDER eating the cost of pulling in multiple dogs to run multiple titers that are useless on a practical level, but whine about washing or sanitizing their hands?

I expect my doctors, nurses, and daycare workers to keep their hands clean. We all do because we all know how dirty hands can spread infections. I don't know why some veterinarians, veterinary technicians, and kennel workers are so resistant to the concept in animals.

 

[No Imagination]

Also, why would anyone in their right mind ever CONSIDER eating the cost of pulling in multiple dogs to run multiple titers that are useless on a practical level

I don't understand that, who said anything about running titers?

It's not a financial issue at all. And TBH, I didn't even consider ourselves as the vector before this thread, so it helped a lot.

If I thought that hand sanitizers would correct the issue, i'd strongly suggest it, but we are dealing mostly with large dogs, we don't pick them up. I would guess most of the saliva (Respitory Discharge) would be on our pants (when we walk them).

As far as it being a 'big enough' issue, im not sure. We get about 2-3 outbreaks a year. last one probably cost +$5K

 

[Pandacinny]

I shouldn't have said titers - it wasn't accurate. I was referring to the blood testing from Idexx you mentioned earlier in the thread.

To clarify, I don't necessarily think hand washing is the biggest issue here, either. I just think it's one of the easiest ones to address. Frankly, after years of dealing with whiny kennel workers who said it's just so haaard to sanitize their hands because it takes thirty whole extra seconds per dog, I get a little annoyed. Especially after having done kennel work for quite some time myself and knowing that it's just NOT that hard to clean right and to sanitize your hands as needed.

Sorry if that came off as irritation, nothing personal. My own experience with staff non-compliance is showing here. In the shelter, this really affects quality of life and animals' chances of finding a home. I understand the stakes aren't as high in a boarding kennel - those animals will go to their own vet then back to their own home with owners who love them and will treat and care for them. They won't be euthanized for being snotty, or passed up for weeks for being sick before being euthanized for space. 🙁 Sorry if I get a little touchy. Nothing to do with you, personally.

Back on topic: you could have any number of issues here. One other important thing to consider is that you could be spreading diseases around with your cleaning protocols. Is your contact time alright and is your bleach diluted correctly? Are there dogs in the room when you're spraying down or are all the dogs safely out while you're aerosolizing a bunch of poop and snot?

The UC Davis shelter medicine site is a great place to look for cleaning protocols. Also, I know this will sound stupid, but if you use a new disinfectant, be sure to slog through the whole label. It'll tell you the proper way to mix and use the disinfectant, including contact time. It's also nice to have read it once in case you end up spraying full strength disinfectant into your eye (which really stings!)

A last thing to think about is that you might just be taking on too many dogs at once. Kennels are limited by the amount of space they have and stuffing one to the gills can be stressful for the dogs. If you're pretty sure that's not the issue, look at other stress-reducing measures like enrichment/toys, the ability to isolate dogs who're especially stressed out by staring at their neighbors, playing soft music (I like "Through a Dog's Ear" the best - puts mine to sleep), and even maybe placing some DAP diffusers around the kennel.

 

[No Imagination]

Nahh, no need to apologize, I just wanted to reemphisize that I understood what you were saying. I truly do appreciate the feedback.

Toys, bad idea. We used to allow it, but it caused more problems then it was worth.

A) You would be surprised how many people will be pissed off after 2-3 weeks of boarding their dog, their dog is happy and healthy, but the toy was destroyed.

B) We had to disallow any small toys (esp balls), after a dog chocked 4-5 years ago.

C) We allow blankets and shirts from the owners (for owners sent and what not)

We play music
Exercise and play with them in large yards (on lease)

I'm starting to think if we really wanted to eliminate (or dramatically reduce the # of outbreaks), we would have to change the contact aspect. Thats one of the things that sets us apart from other kennels in the area and we probably will not do.

Funny thing is, we have cats in a separate building (only keep 20 or so cats at a time), but we've never had an outbreak of anything with them.