Shelter Veterinarians

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kitty613

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Hey All-
Piggybacking off of Artery's current thread about emergency&critical medicine; I'd like to shift directions and ask about shelter medicine!Whoo hoo! :laugh: (sorry) So, how many of you have experience working, volunteering or shadowing in shelter medicine? Shelter medicine is an area of medicine I'm interested in, so I'd love to hear about your experiences in the field.

So, here's some questions I've been pondering...
  • What is a typical day is like for a shelter veterinarian?
  • What are the hardships,and most satisfying aspects of shelter medicine? (Obviously, high numbers of euthansias in shelters can be distressing). However, what about low kill shelters?
  • I've heard there's been a recent trend in trying to implement more low kill shelters. Are low kill shelters really gaining momentum in society, especially with overpopulation issues?
  • How does shelter medicine compare to private practice? (I know these two fields are like apples and oranges, but I'd be interested in hearing from people who've worked in both fields and which they field they perferred and why).
I know these questions may seem a bit all over the place. Sorry! Feel free to enlighten me with your wisdom, I'm still learning....:idea:

Thanks!

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Awesome topic 👍👍👍 Maybe Minnerbelle will also grace us with her presence to join in!

I've been working with the shelter I'm at for around four years. We have a low cost S/N and vaccine clinic on one side and a shelter side, which is basically headed by vet techs (licensed). Recently, our shelter made a management overhaul and now one of the vets from the clinic side. So one of our vets is now on the shelter side 2 days a week, whereas she used to be only on the clinic side and had just consulted on difficult cases. I love working with her!!

What is a typical day is like for a shelter veterinarian?

(I can only report about what I've witnessed thus far; I haven't been working with her that long). Three days a week, she is over on the clinic side, doing spays/neuters/other surgeries. Two days she is on the shelter side where she comes to us around 10 and leaves at around 3:30. She spends a lot of time in meetings (though she is also now our medical manager). We do intakes and meds in the morning (typically handled by the techs). We have a medical log that volunteers/staff write on if an animal appears ill or not right. Either she or a tech checks the animal to make sure nothing's wrong. She checks on tough cases that we've been having, examines the animals, and prescribes a treatment plan which is carried out by the techs. Lots of meetings. She often consults the other vets we have to talk about treatment plans and best courses of action. She is constantly working on ways to speed up our process and better the service we provide to our animals. Disease control is also very important, and she makes recommendations based on that. If a dog or cat is slated for euth (medical), she will examine the animal and make her recommendation based on its condition. She has sign off authority on all euthanasias.

What are the hardships,and most satisfying aspects of shelter medicine? (Obviously, high numbers of euthansias in shelters can be distressing). However, what about low kill shelters?


Tough question. One thing I've learned, especially, in shelter medicine, is that it's impossible to please everyone. These animals don't have clients to make best choices for them. It is very very very very difficult to decide to euthanize your favorite dog when those same resources could be sent saving 15 other dogs. We also only have so much money to treat animals that are seriously injured. My shelter is open admission, low kill (almost no kill, we're dealing with around 88% live release rate for cats when it needs to be >90%). We do not euthanize adoptable pets. We take in hardship cases from around the country and some even from other countries. We take dogs in from high kill shelters down south and adopt them out. We also care for wildlife. These are some of the best things about shelter medicine. I only know what I've been exposed to at my shelter, but it can be both very rewarding and very hard at the same time.

There is an opportunity to make a very large, positive difference for many more animals than you would probably see in general practice. There is always room for improvement, which is a big plus for me, because you don't fall into a status quo routine, which can be detrimental to any professional. Seeing animals that you've treated for weeks go home is soooo satisfying. Also seeing animals that may not have had the best start to life move on to loving homes is amazing. At the same time, the emotional fallout is HUGE. Especially at high kill shelters, I'm sure burnout is a very real problem.

I've heard there's been a recent trend in trying to implement more low kill shelters. Are low kill shelters really gaining momentum in society, considering overpopulation issues?

Depends on who you talk to. You'd (and I'd) like to believe that shelter directors have the best interests of the animals at heart, but it's not always the case. Shelter directors stuck in their ways will choose to euthanize rather than adopt out pets because they don't want to stay open the extra hour, have staff that actually care about animals (and not spray them with toxic chemicals while trying to 'clean' their cages), and implement life saving strategies, like adoptions promotions, TNR, and community education. Low kill/no kill is definitely an ideal that is possible (Tomkins County SPCA, San Francisco SPCA, among others). Shelters assume pitties are unadoptable and euthanize automatically. Others have no foster programs and kill bottle baby kittens.

There are 8 million dogs and cats that enter the nation's animal shelters annually. 90% of those are savable animals. 4 million of those animals will be saved. Three million of these animals are killed. According to Nathan Winograd (who may or may not be correct), there are 17 million people looking for a new pet every year. That means that everyone looking for a pet could go to a shelter and adopt one and we would still need to find 9 million dogs and cats to fit the public demand.

Whether a not a shelter is no/low kill really depends on the shelter's director. Life-saving changes can be made overnight (not necessarily the transformation to no/low kill), but my shelter made the decision overnight to not euthanize animals for space, and we have not done so since. We are still an open admissions shelter.

The idea is definitely gaining momentum, and I think the public is starting to demand it. Animal shelters are the #1 killer of dogs and cats in the United States.

How does shelter medicine compare to private practice? (I know these two fields are like apples and oranges, but I'd be interested in hearing from people who've worked in both fields and which they field they perferred and why).


I've touched on this a bit before, but there are technically no clients. In an ideal world, that means you could do what's best for every pet regardless of client intentions. Most shelters do not receive funding from the government and are non-profit, meaning cost plays a big role in what can be done for shelter pets. We've partnered with local vets to provide services such as dental cleanings for free, to alleviate some of the cost to the shelter. It depends on the shelter, but the money probably isn't that great because of your employer's NFP status. There is a lot less money grubbing with individual clients, but a lot of consideration as to what is acceptable on a limited budget. Euthanasia is a larger concern in shelters, where a single URI can decimate an entire population of cats in the shelter (we have an awesome air circulation system that eliminates this problem when we are at or below capacity, but in the summer/kitten season, we end up with a lot of sick animals). I love the opportunity, personally, to save and impact a great number of animals. You see all kinds of pets, all kinds of cases, and it's rarely routine. The emotional toll is probably higher in shelter med, especially in high kill shelters, where you will probably be euthanizing 100s of animals per week. Most shelter vets are salaried, as you can't really make a commission on a cat with no owner. It's lots of spays and neuters at times. Shelter politics are a pain (we have a shelter near me that refuses to give us cats when we have space--they would rather euthanize them than make themselves look bad). Overall, it's the best and worst experience I've ever had. I would say that if I were to pursue shelter med, I would only go to a low/no kill shelter, because I don't believe that I would be able to handle the high numbers of euths per day.


Hope that helps!!! Sorry for the vagueness in my answers 🙂
 
ooooh, great thread! I think NStarz did a great job talking about a lot of aspects of shelter med, and maybe bunnity and sumstorm can join in too!

One thing I have to emphasize though, is that it's very difficult to talk about shelters as one kind of entity, because depending on location, funding, management style, etc, things can be veeeery different. For example, just with the orgs I've been involved with there have been:

  • well-funded ~7,000 animal/year humane society with an AAHA accredited vet services. not sure how things are post the 2008 financial meltdown, but they used to have 5-7 full time vet techs (of which 2 were RVTs) and like 3 full time vets. of course they couldn't save every animal, but they would invest in a lot of pretty costly veterinary procedures for animals that needed it.
  • moderately-funded >30,000 animals/year humane society. From what I could gather, only 1 full time vet... and euthanasia rate was very high. In many cases moderate upper respiratory infections meant euthanasia.
  • poorly funded >30,000 animals/year humane society. vet care was almost absent because they couldn't even adopt out a huge chunk of their very adoptable animals.
  • small, maybe 700 animals/year humane society with no vet. they had one full time vet tech, and a vet from the community would donate his/her time a couple days a week.
  • animal rescues that just use private clinics with a discount. not really a shelter, but just thought i'd give you a range.
What is a typical day is like for a shelter veterinarian?

Again, depends entirely on the type of shelter. Many small shelters don't even have a vet. Many others rely on volunteer/part time vets that just come in a few times a week. During those visits, vets will usually work on the sick animals, check up on recovering animals, and do a few spays/neuters.

There are a lot of poorly funded shelters that have full time vets that will do spay/neuters and treat some conditions, but do not do much full workups on most of the sick animals because the shelter can't afford to treat much of anything.

In very well funded humane societies, you can often have a dedicated spay/neuter vet who just knocks out 30+ surgeries/day. You can also then have a separate vet/vets who takes care of the rest of the shelter. Most of that involves checking up on lists of animals with some sort of issue that the vet techs and animal care staff compiles daily. I know very dedicated vets who will stay hours beyond their normal day just because they don't feel like it's right to leave without making sure that every animal that really needs vet attention will get one and won't be suffering overnight. Every day is full of surprises, as animal control officers bring in emergencies, emergencies occur in the shelter, AND forensic work in abuse cases for shelters that are contracted with the county animal control. To mix it up a bit, some sort of crisis usually arises (disease outbreaks, media nightmare, etc...) that keeps vets on their toes. It can be a really exciting job if there's enough funding to support adequate vet care.


What are the hardships,and most satisfying aspects of shelter medicine? (Obviously, high numbers of euthansias in shelters can be distressing). However, what about low kill shelters?

Again, really depends on the shelter... but a lot of it can come down to how much autonomy a veterinarian at a shelter has. Humane societies attract a LOT of nutcases who have strong opinions on how animals should be treated (esp those without vet knowledge). As humane societies are generally 501c3 non-profit orgs, a board of directors is involved to varying degrees. Some boards will elect to leave veterinary decisions to the veterinarians ("here's your budget for the year, figure out what you can do with it"). Some boards will elect to decide very heavily what the vet can and cannot do to the point of micromanagement.

Along the same lines, not having any control over the outcome of the animals you care for can be rather devastating sometimes. This can happen even if a vet is allowed to make all the decisions they want about veterinary services. For example, the outcome of an abused animal whose owners are undergoing trial for animal neglect/abuse is decided by the legal system.

The sheer number of animals you see (waaaay more than the number a typical private practitioner sees) makes it so that you see lots of rather bizarre conditions in animals. You have to be pretty good at a lot of things... and that can be very challenging because that makes it almost impossible for a new grad to successfully be the only vet in charge of hundreds of animals, but the low pay makes it less likely for experienced vets to want to work at a shelter. You have to be a very efficient spay/neuter vet, do the regular doctoring stuff, AND be good at emergencies too.

Begging for money (to treat animals they think are worth it) gets old really fast as well.

Finally, even though the vet is only trying to do good, shelter vets tend to be public enemy number 1 for private practitioners. A lot of it has to do with the fact that clinicians have to deal with clients who believe that their vet is a money grubbing *****hole if their services cost more than the incredibly cheap low-cost-spay/neuter prices. Most of this stem from the tax-status of businesses vs. non-profits that creates unfair competition.


I've heard there's been a recent trend in trying to implement more low kill shelters. Are low kill shelters really gaining momentum in society, especially with overpopulation issues?


I'm not sure what you mean by this. For the most part, every shelter is trying as hard as they possibly can to lower their euthanasia rates. It's not really a choice...

If you're talking about "No Kill" shelters, then yeah... I'd say there's a trend for that. You have to understand though, that regardless of how many no kills shelters spring up you're not going to lessen the number of "kill" shelters out there unless pet overpopulation is terminated. For public safety purpose there has to be an impound place for stray animals. In order to accommodate the intake of every animal that is turned in, most places in the US MUST have a kill shelter. Demonizing open admissions shelters only makes it likely for the animals there to receive funding/get adopted (and sadly, in an overflow situation much more animals end up at the open shelters than at the no kill shelters). The attitude should never be one of our shelter's animals vs. your shelter's animals because the animals are a responsibility of the entire community. Every shelter wants to call itself a "no-kill" or a "low-kill" shelter because that's how you attract funding/adoptors.

How does shelter medicine compare to private practice?
Sorry, can't tell you much about it because I haven't had any experience in private practice. I think a huge plus is that as a shelter veterinarian, you're not constantly trying to impress clients in order to get them to agree with your diagnosis and pursuading them to agree to treat their animal.
 
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GREAT THREAD! I have nothing more to contribute than that unfortunately, I really want to try and go the shelter medicine route in school if possible, and I have unfortunately not had too much experience with it. I know its certainly not easy, but its something I have always felt passionate about.
Thanks for posting all that info!
 
Oh great! Thanks for all the info. I am definitely looking into doing shelter medicine, as it is something I am truly passionate about.
I don't have any answers to the questions yet, but I very much enjoy reading the responses. I do know that my city has gotten a LOT better lately about various shelters (Humane Society, Animal Care and Control) and organizations working together to greatly reduce the amount of euthanasia in the city. The change has been phenomenal, and it's great to see how much impact it has had on the community.
So, to answer one of your questions, I have definitely seen my city turning toward being low-kill, especially within the last two or three years. I think it is something that all shelters should aspire to!
 
[*]I've heard there's been a recent trend in trying to implement more low kill shelters. Are low kill shelters really gaining momentum in society, especially with overpopulation issues?

It sounds like a nice idea, kinda like banning horse slaughter sounded to many people. They people who push for it are generally the ones who generally aren't affected by the repercussions of it.

Shelters don't euthanize animals for the fun of it. Also not euthanizing for space, in many cases means that the shelter has decided it has no issue with overcrowding which is a poor medical decision for animals in the shelter. It only results in increased stress to the animals, and increased prevalence of disease.

Limited admission/no kill shelters seem great in the public eyes and make donors very happy. The problem is that they are also serving a very limited number of animals in the community while at the same time demonizing all those other "kill" shelters out there. The net result is the "no kill" shelters get a disproportionately high amount of donations to help very few animals. All while the open admission shelters have fight for donations while struggling to serve the needs of all the other animals that the "no-kill" shelter turned away.
 
It sounds like a nice idea, kinda like banning horse slaughter sounded to many people. They people who push for it are generally the ones who generally aren't affected by the repercussions of it.

Shelters don't euthanize animals for the fun of it. Also not euthanizing for space, in many cases means that the shelter has decided it has no issue with overcrowding which is a poor medical decision for animals in the shelter. It only results in increased stress to the animals, and increased prevalence of disease.

Limited admission/no kill shelters seem great in the public eyes and make donors very happy. The problem is that they are also serving a very limited number of animals in the community while at the same time demonizing all those other "kill" shelters out there. The net result is the "no kill" shelters get a disproportionately high amount of donations to help very few animals. All while the open admission shelters have fight for donations while struggling to serve the needs of all the other animals that the "no-kill" shelter turned away.


This may be true in many cases, but not all. As I stated above, I work at an open admission, low kill shelter. There are ways to promote adoption and reduce euthanasia. It's largely possible if you have leadership that is willing to try to take those steps.
 
This may be true in many cases, but not all. As I stated above, I work at an open admission, low kill shelter.

But it sounds like you also work at a well funded shelter, which i think has more to do with it. Given that the shelter is run more or less efficiently, the rate of euthanasia has a lot more to do with funding, number of intake animals, and the attitudes and socioeconomics of the community surrounding the shelter.

No matter how well a shelter is run, it's almost impossible to have a low- or no-kill shelter in a high intake, low funding setting. I'd even argue that it's extremely difficult to ever have enough funding to have a low kill shelter in a high volume setting. I personally do not know of a single city that is able to adopt out >90% of adoptable animals (cats included) when they intake over 30,000 animals/year. Being able to first of all, adopt out >20,000 animals in a year AND having enough funding to do so is flabbergasting to me. If there is a shelter that can do that out there, I'd love to know about it. If that intake number is below 10,000 animals, or even below 5,000 animals then heck yeah, it becomes so much more manageable.

Sure, you can always increase donations/adoption rates and decrease euthanasia by cutting inefficiencies within an org and expanding collaboration between all community resources. It sounds like that's what your shelter did (and the one in bee's city too), which is awesome! But I think it's also important to understand that it's not always possible in a big chunk of cases. Though I think it's safe to say that without great leadership you can't achieve low-kill status (without overcrowding), I don't think it's right to say that a large number of shelters who are high kill are that way because they don't have good leadership.

So as much as I applaud the shelters that make changes to achieve that low kill status, esp when they weren't before... I have to agree with David. A lot of these open shelters (don't even get me started with no kill shelters) have this attitude of "We have a low kill shelter because we're so much better than that shelter in the city next door. You should donate to us and adopt from us!" This really bugs me. It should really be "We are so fortunate to be in a situation where we don't have to euthanize as many animals due to the great community around us that do their share to limit the overpopulation issue by spaying/neutering and being responsible owners, AND also to the generosity of the donors who believe in our cause"
 
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Limited admission/no kill shelters seem great in the public eyes and make donors very happy. The problem is that they are also serving a very limited number of animals in the community while at the same time demonizing all those other "kill" shelters out there. The net result is the "no kill" shelters get a disproportionately high amount of donations to help very few animals. All while the open admission shelters have fight for donations while struggling to serve the needs of all the other animals that the "no-kill" shelter turned away.

Exactly. I really wish people would stop even using the term "no kill." Because essentially all it means now, given the millions of "excess" animals, is that "we don't kill *here*". Somewhere, those excess animals are still being killed, and the "no kill" shelters just make it that much harder for all the open admission/kill shelters out there busting their a**es with a flood of unwanted animals and far fewer resources. It makes it into an us vs. them, good guys vs. bad guys kind of thing. Of course, nobody *wants* to kill animals, but when you have no resources, animals are stacked 2 and 3 on top of each other, getting sick and stressed after months in the shelter with no end in sight, well, sometimes, euthanasia is a more humane solution.

I actually wish more shelters would stop downplaying their kill numbers and get more "in your face" with the public about this issue. Nobody wants to draw attention to it, but the fact is the irresponsible public is entirely to blame for this problem, and we should stop shielding them from the ugly reality. I would be more likely to give my support to the shelter who comes out and says "yeah, we killed 3,000 animals here last year, and it's YOUR (the public's) fault, and it's going to keep on happening until you idiots wise up and start fixing your animals and being responsible," rather than the shelter who boasts about being "no kill."
 
I agree that every shelter cannot be no kill or even low kill. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce euthanasia numbers. It's almost like an absolution of responsibility. Instead of the shelters standing against each other (no kill vs. kill or open admission or whatever you want to call it), it becomes about the shelter vs. the public. If you want the public to adopt animals, stop yelling at them for being irresponsible and show them all the benefits of adopting. Don't open your shelter only during business hours--people work. Don't euthanize pit bulls just because they're pit bulls. Implement a TNR program (contrary to popular belief, cats do not hunt for fun--if they are being fed, they have no reason to hunt birds). Get a good volunteer program going. Work with other shelters and stop the ego trip (as I stated before, if we have empty space, the shelter down the street refuses to give us cats because they don't want to look bad...they'd rather kill the cats. How does that make any sense???). Allow rescue groups into your shelter to take pets that they can adopt out. Get a foster program. Open on weekends (if you open the shelter on weekends and after hours instead of 9-5 weekdays, it costs the same but you get more animals adopted). Stop instituting outrageous adoption criteria (why can't a family with kids adopt a large dog?). Have good customer service (which can be provided by volunteers). Have volunteers do public education about the importance of spay/neuter.

The United States, in the end, may have to euthanize some adoptable pets. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce that number. I think it's ridiculous (at least IMO, sorry) to say in one breath that we shouldn't pit shelters against each other but in the other say that it should be shelters vs. the big bad evil public. Most people are responsible pet owners. Most people would adopt if we would make it appealing to them and accessible to them (like I said, if the whole family has to be there to meet the dog, how are the kids supposed to come if the shelter's only open during school hours?). Of course, money makes it easier, but so does proper management and working with the public, instead of making them out to be the enemy. Honestly, if I went into a shelter and was made out to be a bad person (which you're preaching to the choir if they're already in the shelter looking to adopt) and I'm made to jump through hurdles to adopt, I would rather buy the puppy down the street. Shelters need to make themselves attractive to adopters, and that's where they have gone wrong, IMO.
 
I actually wish more shelters would stop downplaying their kill numbers and get more "in your face" with the public about this issue.

I think a lot of the higher kill rate shelters do this already, cause they don't have too much to lose. But here's the thing. For a moderate kill rate shelter, as much as it would be great to educate the public on their collective role in causing overpopulation, being upfront about the thousands of euthanasias that take place can have huge consequences. People who go to a shelter that says "we had to kill 3000 animals last year thanks to you" don't automatically go "huh, i really should step it up and help out." Instead they go, "wow that place is so depressing, i can't be here" and walk away. I've heard people say so many times "I got a dog off of craigslist because I couldn't get myself to go to the shelter. It's so sad in there, I'd feel so bad seeing all those sad animals" Makes no sense whatsoever, but that's how people work

I personally think it's the responsibility of the more fortunate low kill shelters and no kill shelters to step it up with their education. A big portion of the people that adopt/donate to these places are do-gooders who want to help out and feel good about themselves (but often don't really understand the real issues and/or turn a blind eye to it). Rather than using the attention they've already got from the public to demonize open admissions shelters, why not educate properly? You can only grab onto people's attention for so long, why waste it on educating them about "how wonderful it is to be low kill/no kill" when they can educate about the real issues.

When I ran a little cat rescue for a while, many people would come to our facility to support us because they loved the quality of care we gave to the cats in our care (in huge cat condos with lots of toys and huge bedding, etc...) and many would tell me how much our place was better than those other shelters. This bugged me so much. I dunno how many times I had the "yes, it's wonderful that we can give a second chance to these so-called unadoptable animals that would have been euthanized elsewhere... but we do this at the expense of so many things (most notably that we spend about a net of > $1000 per animal. The same amount of money would save soooo many more healthy behaviorly sound animals at a bigger shelter. )" I ended up putting a blurb on it in online when I was making the website. Our Philosophy. I dunno how many people ever read it, or felt any sort of impact by it, but I like to think that at least I did something about it.
 
I agree that every shelter cannot be no kill or even low kill. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce euthanasia numbers. It's almost like an absolution of responsibility.

I would be careful about making statements like that. It can come off very offensively. What makes you think that shelters with higher kill rates aren't trying as hard as they can with the resources they have? Just because you know of a couple of poorly managed shelters, it does not mean they're all like that.

So yes, some shelters consistently make poor choices for the wrong reasons. But the fact of the matter is, many shelters run with very limited resources so they have to make a lot of choices. Many times it's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. One of those evils might be more visible than the other (not hiring extra volunteer coordinator vs. not hiring extra animal care staff). Unless you know exactly WHY a shelter's made a particular choice to run something the way it does, I don't think it's fair to judge.
 
I would be careful about making statements like that. It can come off very offensively. What makes you think that shelters with higher kill rates aren't trying as hard as they can with the resources they have? Just because you know of a couple of poorly managed shelters, it does not mean they're all like that.

So yes, some shelters consistently make poor choices for the wrong reasons. But the fact of the matter is, many shelters run with very limited resources so they have to make a lot of choices. Many times it's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. One of those evils might be more visible than the other (not hiring extra volunteer coordinator vs. not hiring extra animal care staff). Unless you know exactly WHY a shelter's made a particular choice to run something the way it does, I don't think it's fair to judge.



I wasn't trying to be offensive, merely point out that people saying that shelters shouldn't fight amongst themselves should stop pitting shelters against the public, because that doesn't help either, and it probably hurts.


I can only speak from experiences, so I apologize if my posts are coming from my experience. I am not saying that shelters that euthanize animals are evil, merely that it is possible to reduce euthanasia numbers if they implement programs like the ones I mentioned above (many of which can be run by volunteers or on the same shoe-string budget that the shelter currently has). Offense was not intended. Throwing up your hands and saying "well, it's the public's fault and there's nothing we can do about it" is an absolution of responsibility, whether it offends or not. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have too many pets and not enough homes, and that is most likely not possible in today's society. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to save the ones we can without alienating the very allies we need to help us in the struggle against euthanasia.
 
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I am not saying that shelters that euthanize animals are evil, merely that it is possible to reduce euthanasia numbers if they implement programs like the ones I mentioned above (many of which can be run by volunteers or on the same shoe-string budget that the shelter currently has).

I totally get where you're coming from, and I know you're not trying to say that shelters are evil. My point was more that it's really not fair for you to make judgments like the ones you made above... that these "worse" shelters can become better like yours by implementing the same things your shelter did. I'm sure in some cases it is, but in a lot of cases it's not.

The bigger the shelter becomes, the less you can rely on volunteers to do a bulk of the work (and usually it's the bigger shelters that tend to be in more of a financial crunch). The bigger it is, and the more animals are under the shelter's care, the more consistently things have to be done. Once it gets to a certain point, it's really not worth having volunteers take on certain roles (when volunteers can pretty much fulfill the entire role at a smaller shelter). You need staffing to oversee volunteers, because let's face it, volunteers can be very unreliable, and when you need a large number of volunteers it's very hard to control quality. Sometimes volunteers end up being more of a headache than just hiring 1 extra full time person to fulfill that role. In a very large shelter, volunteer programs can be a very costly endeavor in itself. Of course having volunteers help at any capacity, but in a bigger setting, you need to hire people just to extend the hours at which volunteers can help.

And when I say that euthanasia due to overpopulation is an entire community's problem... I don't mean that shelters should just play the blame game and not try. I mean that all the euthanasia that goes on in a high kill shelter should be just as much of a problem to the no kill shelter down the street, as well as to the taxpayers at large within that community. Any org or individual that does anything to help is a plus. Even if they're inefficient, they're helping. But unless that entire community stops needing to euthanize adoptable animals, EVERY org/indiv should feel the need to step it up (not just the ones doing the euthanizing).
 
I totally get where you're coming from, and I know you're not trying to say that shelters are evil. My point was more that it's really not fair for you to make judgments like the ones you made above... that these "worse" shelters can become better like yours by implementing the same things your shelter did. I'm sure in some cases it is, but in a lot of cases it's not.

The bigger the shelter becomes, the less you can rely on volunteers to do a bulk of the work (and usually it's the bigger shelters that tend to be in more of a financial crunch). The bigger it is, and the more animals are under the shelter's care, the more consistently things have to be done. Once it gets to a certain point, it's really not worth having volunteers take on certain roles (when volunteers can pretty much fulfill the entire role at a smaller shelter). You need staffing to oversee volunteers, because let's face it, volunteers can be very unreliable, and when you need a large number of volunteers it's very hard to control quality. Sometimes volunteers end up being more of a headache than just hiring 1 extra full time person to fulfill that role. In a very large shelter, volunteer programs can be a very costly endeavor in itself. Of course having volunteers help at any capacity, but in a bigger setting, you need to hire people just to extend the hours at which volunteers can help.

And when I say that euthanasia due to overpopulation is an entire community's problem... I don't mean that shelters should just play the blame game and not try. I mean that all the euthanasia that goes on in a high kill shelter should be just as much of a problem to the no kill shelter down the street, as well as to the taxpayers at large within that community. Any org or individual that does anything to help is a plus. Even if they're inefficient, they're helping. But unless that entire community stops needing to euthanize adoptable animals, EVERY org/indiv should feel the need to step it up (not just the ones doing the euthanizing).


I definitely agree with all of your points here. I think we're speaking the same language, just going about it differently. I'm not trying to say that my shelter is better than others (and I apologize if it came across that way). I definitely agree that shelters working together is important, and that euthanasia impacts everyone in a community, not just the shelters doing the killing. Which is why the low kill/no kill shelters need to step up and alleviate some of the burden and help the other shelters out in any way they can (which I think you said in a previous post). What makes this difficult is when the other shelter is unwilling to accept any help (I can only speak from my experiences here and I'm not trying to generalize). Shelters working together is very important. And shelters working with the public, instead of against the public, is also very important.
 
It sounds like a nice idea, kinda like banning horse slaughter sounded to many people. They people who push for it are generally the ones who generally aren't affected by the repercussions of it.

Shelters don't euthanize animals for the fun of it. Also not euthanizing for space, in many cases means that the shelter has decided it has no issue with overcrowding which is a poor medical decision for animals in the shelter. It only results in increased stress to the animals, and increased prevalence of disease.

Limited admission/no kill shelters seem great in the public eyes and make donors very happy. The problem is that they are also serving a very limited number of animals in the community while at the same time demonizing all those other "kill" shelters out there. The net result is the "no kill" shelters get a disproportionately high amount of donations to help very few animals. All while the open admission shelters have fight for donations while struggling to serve the needs of all the other animals that the "no-kill" shelter turned away.

From my perspective (6+ years in shelters) this is a pretty simplistic and sorry to say it, naive, assessment of the situation when it comes to how shelters operate. Most of the terminology like 'no kill' or 'open admission' is fairly useless, by the way.
 
I agree that every shelter cannot be no kill or even low kill. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce euthanasia numbers.

Yes. And there is a lot of room for improvement! It's not about making that end decision of whether to inject blue juice or not. No, it's about many small decisions made by members of the community--all foreshadowing such an outcome.

In the 1970's we euthanized about 20 million animals a year in the US. We are now probably under 4 million--Still an appalling number, but we've made progress. 👍 And by no means have we really tapped our potential for doing better. Public education and general 'zeitgeist' are key. Be a role model and support progressive change. I'd venture to say the achievements are primarily due to grassroots efforts.

NStarz, I am guessing you are a fan of Nathan Winograd's. 🙂
 
From my perspective (6+ years in shelters) this is a pretty simplistic and sorry to say it, naive, assessment of the situation when it comes to how shelters operate. Most of the terminology like 'no kill' or 'open admission' is fairly useless, by the way.

Simplistic? Yup. But if your going to state my point of view is uneducated, you could at least dignify it with an explanation.
 
NStarz, I am guessing you are a fan of Nathan Winograd's. 🙂

He has some good ideas, but generally is way too alienating. He does to shelters what he says that we shouldn't do to the public.

Improvement is the bottom line. We can always do something better.
 
I'm going to hijack the thread slightly further here, sorry!

...contrary to popular belief, cats do not hunt for fun--if they are being fed, they have no reason to hunt birds).

I'm surprised to read this. Of course, most of my information on the outdoor cats vs wildlife issue comes from the wildlife conservation side of things and might be biased. But I've read believable-sounding studies on predation by house cats being a significant cause of mortality for various species, and I've certainly seen a lot of birds and mammals in wildlife rehab that were caught by well-fed house cats. Are feral cats different in this regard?
 
I'm surprised to read this. Of course, most of my information on the outdoor cats vs wildlife issue comes from the wildlife conservation side of things and might be biased. But I've read believable-sounding studies on predation by house cats being a significant cause of mortality for various species, and I've certainly seen a lot of birds and mammals in wildlife rehab that were caught by well-fed house cats. Are feral cats different in this regard?

You're right - well-fed cats will still hunt. There are studies that have been done that show that domestic cat hunting behavior has little to do with state of hunger.

Cats will even kill things that they have absolutely no intention of eating.
 
I'm going to hijack the thread slightly further here, sorry!



I'm surprised to read this. Of course, most of my information on the outdoor cats vs wildlife issue comes from the wildlife conservation side of things and might be biased. But I've read believable-sounding studies on predation by house cats being a significant cause of mortality for various species, and I've certainly seen a lot of birds and mammals in wildlife rehab that were caught by well-fed house cats. Are feral cats different in this regard?

As far as I'm aware, feral cats are different from house cats. House cats want out of the house to have some fun, relieve boredom, etc (ie, they hunt). Feral cats are constantly faced with threats--getting hbc, predation by other mammals, raising young, finding shelter, finding food (a part of the equation, but not all of it), finding mates. All of these things are very energy costly. If a wild (basically what feral amounts to) cat is being fed, they would have time to do other things and would not waste precious energy on the hunting of their dinner. The fact remains is that humans are the number one killer of birds. If we really wanted to save wild birds and other wildlife, we should look at the human problem first before we start killing cats.

Here's an interesting article from Alley Cat Allies' Website (which is cited, though they obviously have a vested interest in the material they put on their website): http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Document.Doc?id=30

It should also be noted that they cite every statistic on their website, mostly from peer-reviewed journal articles (Nature, etc.).

It's a neat website. I encourage everyone to check it out if they have any interest in feral cats (and any interest in the debate, I might add, because it's always important to understand both sides to formulate an educated opinion).

You also mentioned predation by HOUSE CATS as a big issue. That is probably a bigger issue than the predation by feral cats (though I have nothing to back it up), for reasons I've mentioned above. IMO, you can't desire wanting to kill feral cats when your own cats goes outdoors (there are many reasons, I'll admit, to let a cat outdoors, but if you're concerned about birds and amphibians...it's really hypocritical). Just my $0.02.



Edit: Just saw Nyanko's post. Do you mind posting some links to the studies or PMing me with them that you're referring to?
 
Wow. This thread totally went in a different direction than I thought! I think the information about feral vs. house cats is interesting and well deserved; 😉....however I still want to hear more about the veterinarian's role in shelter medicine. Does anyone have any more thoughts/experiences/wonderings/observations that they can contribute to the topic?
 
I worked in a shelter for about 1.5 years - started out in customer service intaking animals and then moved to running the foster care program. Here are my thoughts to your questions based on my experience in these positions.

· What is a typical day is like for a shelter veterinarian?

Most of the work performed by the vets at the shelter I was dealt mostly with things that techs or assistants couldn't handle. All of the vaccines and initial physical exams were done by techs and assistants. Basic conditions like intestinal parasites, skin conditions, upper respiratory, urinary tract infections - had treatment protocols in place that if diagnosed by a tech/assistant a vet didn't even need to see the animal before treatment was put in place.

They would end up looking at animals with severe skin conditions, severe URI, broken legs, or conditions that were undiagnosed - the more uncommon conditions. They would have a list of Vet To Do list with animals throughout the shelter they needed to look at and exam.

They also performed all the surgeries at the shelter - spay/neuters, amputations, occasional dentals.

At the shelter I worked they had 1 full time and 1 part-time vet, and another vet that came once a week and did surgeries. The full time vet also took on a very large administrative role.

· What are the hardships,and most satisfying aspects of shelter medicine? (Obviously, high numbers of euthansias in shelters can be distressing). However, what about low kill shelters?

At our shelter the vets did not participate in the euthanasia as often as techs and other employees did - we spread out the involvement in the euthanasia between almost all the employees as to not burden a few individuals with the task. Everyone was trained to be a secondary (holding and restraint) and some trained as primary (performing the injections).

Money constraints are a huge issue because you can only treat certain conditions due to money - heartworms for example - very treatable but if the animal was not very adoptable euthanasia may be chosen instead due to money

Dealing with highly contagious diseases in a shelter environment is one of the most difficult aspects in my opinion. There was an outbreak of panleuk at our shelter (before I was there) and after MONTHS of trying to get it under control - including quarantine - turning away any new cats - the shelter had to "depopulate" - all of the cats whether healthy or sick were euthanized and cat admissions suspended for awhile to ensure it would not pop back up - I can't even imagine being the vet having to make that choice.

Parvo is another big to do in shelters - when caught early can be treated - but so contagious its a tough call in a shelter - I know the shelter I was at is now beginning to treat for parvo if they can find the medical funds which is awesome - because it used to be an automatic euthanasia for any animals in a litter if one tested positive for it.

URI - I can't tell you how crappy dealing with URIs are in the shelter - so contagious but SO treatable - a constant battle - as the foster care coordinator I had to chose cats to send out to foster care to recover - and I had to make difficult decisions based on the adoptability of an animal - no fun.

FIV - Adopting out FIV cats is another consideration - when I was at this shelter they euthanized however now they have a special room just for FIV + cats - which is a debatable subject but an interesting change of policy that ultimately saves lives.

Ringworm is another one that’s super contagious but can be easily treated - they still euthanize animals that test + for ringworm because its so easily spread in large population.

The positive aspects - you save lives. Day in and day out you are doing something that is improving the life of an animal that without you would have suffered. You are helping get animals into homes and keep them there. You are fixing animals that have been neglected - you are helping care for animals that may have never had a single person care for them before. Sometimes you are just treating animals for simple conditions that have been neglected by owners that either didn't care or simply didn't know any better - ear infections, demodex, fleas, staph infections - but bringing comfort to those animals is an amazing gift.

A difficult job - but one that brings great rewards

· I've heard there's been a recent trend in trying to implement more low kill shelters. Are low kill shelters really gaining momentum in society, especially with overpopulation issues?

I would agree with what was said above - all shelter are shooting to be low kill - and for the record I hate the term kill shelter - shelters aren't killing animals they are humanely euthanizing them - euthanasia is inevitable - sadly it is - until we get overpopulation under control it will always exist.

No-kill shelters I struggle with - they keep animals forever - no animal is meant to be kenneled for years - and they only get worse with time - I have seen animals go "kennel crazy" and it's not pretty - one of my personal pets was from the shelter - lived there for 7 months - by the time I took him home he was smearing poop all over his kennel and he had NO idea how to interact with other dogs or with people - he was on his way to being euthanized - he's great now but it took sometime to recover. However, Best Friends in Utah has an amazing set up for a no kill shelter - but they have insane funding - definitely a utopia for what a shelter could be - but not something that is seen pretty much anywhere else.

The shelter I worked at has improved tremendously over the last few years - they have developed new behavior protocols and have changed how they evaluate cats - its amazing and their euthanasia numbers have lowered considerably.

I maintain the basic opinion that when you look at the big picture - euthanasia is necessary - sometimes you have to euthanize animals because their chances of finding a home that can safely care for them are so slim - and you have TONS of VERY adoptable animals that are struggling to find homes already - a few examples I can give mostly deal with dogs - one I remember very well was a little Chihuahua mix - he couldn't be handled by pretty much anyone - he only liked certain people - he wasn't safe in 95% of situations and the time and space needed to rehab him were much greater than the shelter could provide....I was one of the people he liked - but we had to euthanize him - broke my heart

Another example is more breed specific - German Shepherds and Rottweilers - I rarely saw these dogs make it to the adoption floor - mainly because they are bred to protect - and once their owners left them - they turned to monsters - severely cage aggressive and some could barely be handled - if no breed rescue option was available - then they had to be euthanized.

Another example is one of my personal dogs again - she was terrified in the shelter - wouldn't move just curled into a ball and laid there - found her room in a foster home and she thrived and did great - long story short - she could not be adopted from the shelter because she was so scared - I ended up taking her home to try and adopt her out - turns out she had some pretty serious behavior issues - very defensive aggressive, very protective of me, and VERY dog aggressive - all issues my husband and I were equipped to handle but not your average adopter - she could seriously hurt someone in the wrong hands - we adopted her but if we hadn't she would have been euthanized.

Many programs are being expanded at shelters - foster care is a huge one - saves SO many lives - if you have ever considered fostering for a shelter I highly recommend it - I had the opportunity to truly save the lives of some animals while working with the foster parents at my shelter. Amazing 🙂

Breed rescue is another one - I coordinated a number of rescues - even drove some animals to chicago to meet up with the rescues that had room for them - with coordination between organizations and communities more lives can be saved and euthanasia numbers will do down.

Spay/neuter laws are so great on the east coast that they actually ship animals from the midwest from rescue groups to families that are looking for dogs - I see this mostly with Lab rescues.

· How does shelter medicine compare to private practice? (I know these two fields are like apples and oranges, but I'd be interested in hearing from people who've worked in both fields and which they field they preferred and why).

I don't even know where to start to compare these 🙂

I currently work in private practice and I can't really say I prefer one to the other - I definitely felt a strong sense of purpose at the shelter but working in private practice you get the opportunity to really see how life long care of an animal makes a difference. You meet people who love and care for their animals and are willing to spend $1000s on them and that's amazing. At the shelter you have to grit your teeth when people bring in a dog with a broken leg and tell you its been that way for a week and they don't want the dog anymore - the up side to this is that the dog is now in the hands of someone who loves it - you.

In private practice you don't always see people caring for their animals the way they should - and you have to give them their animal back - and to maintain a good relationship you have to be nice to them - that is hard

As a private practice vet you get to educate - and guide owners towards the proper care of their animals and that is a really great position to be in - and you get to watch animals grow up - I don't think there is anything more beautiful than an animal living his/her entire life with one family - the movie Marley - that's a fairy tale - sad yes that he dies - but man, to die with the love of that family - what a gift. In private practice you get to experience that - you are a part of the family. In the shelter you get the chance to create that opportunity for an animal.

Based on my experiences I want to work in private practice for awhile after I graduate - get experience - learn - work with people in the community (I will also probably volunteer at shelters during this time period). And then transition to shelter medicine and bring with me knowledge from the private practice industry to try and help improve shelter medicine. My ultimate goal is to bring quality care to animals affordably - but also educate in the process - I think lots of people tend to view private practice vets as car repair men - they are always trying to up sale - which is somewhat true - $ is a bottom line and you need it to stay in business - what owners need to learn is why certain things are being recommended and how it helps their pet - education - this I would hope would trickle down to the shelters as well - keeping animals in their homes for life instead of coming to the shelter because they smell bad because they have raging demodex and ear infections (both insanely treatable).

So yes private practice and shelter medicine are apples and oranges - but my experience is that they are much more related than is currently being explored - how can one help the other - keep animals in homes longer through quality affordable health care and client education - and using information from private practice care to help facilitate improved medical care in shelter enviroments as well as filter adopters to community vets in the area.


So this was a really long response and I apologize for its length - I hope my thoughts are helpful.

A few books I can recommend that helped me learn more about shelters...

Bridging the Bond - The Cultural Construction of the Shelter Pet
Tami L. Harbolt

Compassion Fatique in the Animal Community
Charles Figley and Robert Roop

One at a Time - A week in an American Animal Shelter
Diane Leigh and Marliee Geyer
 
Shelters don't euthanize animals for the fun of it. Also not euthanizing for space, in many cases means that the shelter has decided it has no issue with overcrowding which is a poor medical decision for animals in the shelter. It only results in increased stress to the animals, and increased prevalence of disease.

Limited admission/no kill shelters seem great in the public eyes and make donors very happy. The problem is that they are also serving a very limited number of animals in the community while at the same time demonizing all those other "kill" shelters out there. The net result is the "no kill" shelters get a disproportionately high amount of donations to help very few animals. All while the open admission shelters have fight for donations while struggling to serve the needs of all the other animals that the "no-kill" shelter turned away.

Okay, where to start? Your assessment above has some truisms in it, but it's just an oversimplification of what I see as a really really complex and diffuse group of entities that coexist and provide sheltering services to animals.

Firstly, shelters are all unique and vary widely. The most fundamental and intrinsic characteristics of shelters really come down to three things:
--The community in which they are located, including what other groups exist/compete with them
--Their classification (private, v. public and type of organization), which is closely related to...
--Their primary source of funding

I will touch on the latter two since I think those are more important for comparing and contrasting groups in the same area.

Many shelters are municipal or government organizations, while others are independent, private (generally non-profit) organizations. Government-run shelters are staffed by city/county/district employees, who often belong to unions related to other political unions within that government (sounds like an aside, but that relationship can be very important). They are funded through tax revenue and receive a contract or mandate (usually with the union) to provide X service(s). Municipal shelters can vary a lot in how they operate, how big they are, their overall 'philosophy,' etc.. Most, though, include an animal cruelty investigation component and field services, ie; 'Animal Control.' What is important to remember is the politics/funding/staffing situation that I referred to above.

In contrast, many other groups--shelters and 'rescues' (which are often just a network of foster homes)--are private, non-profit (often 501c3) groups that are completely independent of all other groups. Their staff, if they have any, are not employees of the government, are not generally organized, are privately funded through fees for services and donations.They do not receive a mandate from the government to do anything (apart from perhaps limited agreements with municipalities for dealing with stray animals, but that is an aside). They usually do not have field services, nor do they have a cruelty investigation unit. Usually their philosophy/mission is determined by the board that governs the organization, or the president/CEO-type person at the top... sheltering and providing sanctuary are usually their primary missions.

What are some practical implications of this very basic split between these two general (not exhaustive) types of organizations both getting involved in sheltering?

Well, from what I have seen, there are many key differences:
1. Municipal groups do not have to 'earn' their funding and actually are restricted in how they receive/use donations--often they will have to have outside parties create a separate group and fund to receive donations that then are spent to benefit animals in that facility. Private groups, on the other hand, may receive greater than 80% of their budget through private donations. Consequently, donors have an enormous stake and voice in the organization.
2. A unionized workforce is not the same beast as a non-unionized one. (And here my personal experience will be evident... ) Of course it will be different in terms of labor costs, but also in terms of the working conditions and stipulations that have been and often are written into the working contracts. Work on holidays? Do something outside your narrow job description? Allow a volunteer to do work that fits into your job description? Make changes to the work process that are not negotiated in the contract?? The implications are far-reaching.
3. A government-run, likely unionized organization, is nowhere near as flexible as a privately-funded, non-unionized one and that primarily follows from 1 and 2 above.

I didn't even really touch on the smaller rescues that are nearly one-man shows (except maybe volunteers/foster parents) and that are usually funded in large part by their founder.

Anyways, my final comment on the above is simply that shelters cannot be compared apples and apples when you look at their underlying purposes, the source of their mandate/funds, and the framework within which they can operate on a day-to-day basis. You had better believe this can have an impact on how well they perform in saving animal lives.

Now the next difficult thing is terminology. 'No Kill' is useless. If a group tells you it is 'no kill' all that tells you is that they purport not to kill any animal that isn't considered (and it's by their OWN STANDARDS when you look at the Asilomar Accords) as "Unhealthy/Untreatable." U/U at one place might not be U/U at another place. It depends on the resources at that particular shelter. One place might euthanize an otherwise healthy puppy under 8 weeks old and would classify that as 'U/U" because it is underage. Most progressive places wouldn't dream of euthanizing such a highly adoptable animal that simply needs some veterinary care and time to grow up in a foster home... still others wouldn't even consider Parvo int hat same animal U/U and would treat the animal. All could act according to their own standards and 'claim' to be "No Kill."

In addition, 'open admission' is also a useless term. At one place it means that they won't turn anything down that walks in the door. At another, it means they won't turn the customer down, but they will make them wait for the next available appointment, which might be days or weeks later. Both are really 'open admission' when you look at it, because neither is rejecting animals based on age, breed, medical status, beauty, behavior, etc.. Unfortunately, the terminology that people love to throw around is absolutely unhelpful. ((And I would argue/complain that Maddie's Fund needs to define these terms, but particularly define what the eval codes are across the board for H, T/R, T/M, and U/U. Right now each group can define them as they please.))

How do you measure the performance of a shelter? So many metrics, really... but a couple are considered the 'gold standard.' I would look at a group's intake policies/procedures, consider their criteria for adoptability and how they define the following: Healthy, Treatable/Rehabilitatable, Treatable/Manageable, and Unhealthy/Untreatable; I would take into account the overall number of animals they are serving and look at their Asilomar Live Release rate. There are other things you could look at, too, such as average length of stay, the actual facility, their protocols and procedures for animal care, especially for treatment/containment of contagious disease/vaccine protocols, etc., the role of volunteers, etc..

Add the the fact that many groups actively help one another out by transferring animals in and out of each other's systems, some more willy-nilly than others... it's messy.

In short, its just not simple at all. But please be skeptic and don't just listen to what certain groups/individuals may say--there is a ton of politics within the industry... and it can get really ugly and it isn't always the truth. I definitely think that most groups are more likely to be defensive than they are to admit that they could be doing more and better with the very resources they currently have. Some that are better-managed are set up in such a way that they continually address that issue by reevaluating how they operate with respect to their budget and to the animals they are serving. Others, sadly, are not...
 
Dealing with highly contagious diseases in a shelter environment is one of the most difficult aspects in my opinion. There was an outbreak of panleuk at our shelter (before I was there) and after MONTHS of trying to get it under control - including quarantine - turning away any new cats - the shelter had to "depopulate" - all of the cats whether healthy or sick were euthanized and cat admissions suspended for awhile to ensure it would not pop back up - I can't even imagine being the vet having to make that choice.

A panleuk outbreak that could not be controlled? That is an eye opener for me. Panleukopenia is not that easily spread--it's not as hardy in the environement as Canine Parvo is and cats need a certain level of exposure to get it. I see maybe five cases a year (out of thousands of cats and kittens). I can't imagine how that happened unless the following:

A. The shelter did not routinely vaccinate animals on intake and booster them effectively
B. The shelter did not have good protocol for preventing animals from infecting one another. Either the cleaning or housing protocol or both were flawed... So many questions arising for me as a result of this--what disinfect were they using? What was the cleaning protocol like? Were there no ways to remove vulnerable animals from the shelter to foster homes or isolated areas to decrease the risk of transmission once there were confirmed cases?
C. I suppose the area could be very unique and you might have incredibly high rates of Panleukopenia in your community (but that would still surprise me)...

Here's a sad story for 'ya.
I know of a shelter that RECENTLY had one unconfirmed case of Panleuk in a kitten and then a confirmed case the following day in another kitten (In-house snap test). These were animals housed in individual cages. Their response? Euthanize every cat in the shelter, including adult vaccinated cats... if that wasn't enough, they called in all the cats from their foster homes and killed them, as well.

This is a shelter that does whine about not having the funding and staffing to achieve greater live save rates. They have a brand new facility, too.

Before euthanizing every last cat in the system, do you think any groups were contacted--groups that routinely pull animals from their shelter to fill their own space and 'relieve' this shelter (which is never visibly full)--to see if they would help out in this crisis? Nope. 👎

As I said, please be a skeptic when you hear excuses. 👎
 
Edit: Just saw Nyanko's post. Do you mind posting some links to the studies or PMing me with them that you're referring to?

I think this is the major one people cite.

There were others analyzing stomach contents of cats and such, and a lot of evidence that cats kill a lot of things they have absolutely no intention of eating (mostly voles IIRC). I think it's mostly accepted that cats hunt whether they are well-fed or not.
 
Hate to be the one stirring the pot and bring something controversial up, but a recent article posted on my friend's FB page drew the ire of many of Winograd's devotees because it discussed the heartache felt by shelter workers who performed humane euthanasia regularly. Shelter workers were demonized as "killing apologists" and "murderers" frequently and it reminded me of the criticisms I faced from rescue/"no-kill" people when I worked at a shelter run in cooperation with a fairly large city.

Even associating yourself with shelters as a veterinarian may bring you into contact with people who will not appreciate your work. We used to get feral cat TNR people bringing boatloads of cats in cages to our facility when the vet was in during her surgery days and despite getting essentially free spays for her cats, she'd still badmouth everyone who worked there on a regular basis.

http://www.examiner.com/dog-rescue-in-national/euthanasia-animal-shelters-whose-fault-is-it?
 
This is a great thread with some students that show a lot of insight into the challenges of shelter medicine. I am glad that you recognize the options shelters have for improving the outcomes of their animals and the pivotal role that good shelter veterinarians can play in leading the way. Students who are seriously considering a career in shelter medicine (and I hope you all are) should give the Certificate in Shelter Medicine Certificate Program at the University of Florida a look. Just this year our vet students neutered several thousand feral cats in the Operation Catnip TNR program, participated in a large-scale cruelty response in which they helped triage 700 cats seized from a sanctuary, assisted in forensic exams in a dog-fighting case, practiced large-animal technical rescue, ran an adoptathon in which more than 130 dogs and cats were adopted in 2 days, performed shelter research such as DNA testing of shelter dogs to determine reliability of pit bull identification, responded to disasters, and participated in comprehensive shelter consultations. Check out our program at www.ufsheltermedicine.com
 
I've been volunteering at my local SPCA for a little while, and even though I'm only a senior in high school and not in even a pre-vet course, I've had the opportunity to ask several of the vets at our shelter similar questions. I'll relay the information I've gotten from them to you, but do take it with a grain of salt, as I haven't had any personal experience to prove anything they've mentioned to me.

I do know that our SPCA is No-Kill. It wasn't always, but for a while now it has been, so that will be significantly different than some of the shelters others have mentioned. Our shelter also has three separate facilities that operate separately.

The Spay and Neuter Clinic's veterinarians focus primarily on preforming spays and neuters for shelter animals pre-adoption, as well as for the public, at discounted rates. They aren't employed by the shelter, per say, but have an agreement with the shelter, so this might not be exactly what you're looking for. But from what one of them has told me, when they are dealing with animals from the shelter, it's nearly exclusively for spays and neuters.

The Adoption Center's veterinarians focus more on keeping the animals in the shelter healthy and treating any injuries some of them might have. They might occasionally help with the spays and neuters (I can't remember whether the woman I talked to said she did or not), but mostly she was just responsible for overseeing medications for dogs and cats with health issues, examining animals when a volunteer or staff member said they noticed something off, examining samples from loose stool or blood, and taking care of the post-operation medications for fixed animals. We also have a bunch of techs that do most of those tasks, but that's still the basic rundown. The vets from our adoption center don't usually have to deal with major issues or euthanizing animals, but every once in a while, two dogs will get in a fight or something, and one will need some emergency treatment, or we'll have a dog for adoption that has chemical burns that need to be treated, or something like that.

The veterinarians that have to deal with euthanizing animals work in our holding facility. Again, it's a no-kill shelter, so the only animals ever put down are ones that do not have an acceptable quality of life, or ones who are too aggressive or dangerous to be put in a home. That's up to our behavioral specialist to determine, but she generally works long and hard before determining a dog to be too aggressive. That being said, we just had a dog with a MAJOR food bowl problem, who literally destroyed the plastic hand every time you put it near his food, who ended up getting adopted like three weeks ago. He's a great dog otherwise, and our specialist had worked with him for months on the resource guarding problem, but he wasn't really improving, and the man who applied to adopt him was well aware of everything, so they let him be adopted. So it's not like there are a lot of dogs that are determined to be too aggressive. They also deal with injured animals that come in and might need emergency treatments, and with routine care of the animals in the holding facility.

...I'm not sure how helpful this was for you, but at least it shows you that not every "shelter vet" has the same kind of day-to-day experiences. Depending on the shelter itself, and whether it has different branches or facilities, the tasks preformed by one vet in the shelter might be very, very different from another vet in the same shelter. I guess the point is that no matter what you prefer to do (standard surgeries, general care, emergency care), there is probably plenty of jobs at shelters for you.
 
A panleuk outbreak that could not be controlled? That is an eye opener for me. Panleukopenia is not that easily spread--it's not as hardy in the environement as Canine Parvo is and cats need a certain level of exposure to get it. I see maybe five cases a year (out of thousands of cats and kittens). I can't imagine how that happened unless the following:

A. The shelter did not routinely vaccinate animals on intake and booster them effectively
B. The shelter did not have good protocol for preventing animals from infecting one another. Either the cleaning or housing protocol or both were flawed... So many questions arising for me as a result of this--what disinfect were they using? What was the cleaning protocol like? Were there no ways to remove vulnerable animals from the shelter to foster homes or isolated areas to decrease the risk of transmission once there were confirmed cases?
C. I suppose the area could be very unique and you might have incredibly high rates of Panleukopenia in your community (but that would still surprise me)...


Before euthanizing every last cat in the system, do you think any groups were contacted--groups that routinely pull animals from their shelter to fill their own space and 'relieve' this shelter (which is never visibly full)--to see if they would help out in this crisis? Nope. 👎

As I said, please be a skeptic when you hear excuses. 👎

Having an outbreak usually means being able to send animals off to other places is out of the question. That would violate some major tenets of epidemiology.

A. Panleuk is still highly contagious and persists for a long time in the environment. Even vaccinating animals on intake, there can be cases of very young, immunologically naive kittens dying from panleukopenia because they are infected before the vaccine has caused protective immunity. With the timing of boosters and difficulty in finding space to isolate all kittens with no vaccine histories for several weeks until they have protective immunity, deaths can still occur.

B. The virus is extremely hardy. It can last in the environment for a VERY LONG TIME. How large of an isolation area do you think most shelters have to house suspected cases of infectious disease and do you think they want to put seriously infected animals next to animals with minor illnesses who are already in Iso? It's easy in hind-sight to think of all the protective/preventative measures a facility can utilize to prevent exposure, but there are fomites all around us and viruses can be carried by all of them. I agree a facility ought to try its best to have proper protocols, but even with the best protocols in place, outbreaks can still occur.

C. According to the link I've attached you're right that outbreaks are rare, but they occur most frequently at "kennels, pet shops, animal shelters, unvaccinated feral cat colonies, and other areas where groups of cats are housed together appear to be the main reservoirs of FP. During the warm months, urban areas are likely to see outbreaks of FP because cats are more likely to come in contact with other cats." Vaccination has come a long way in reducing this disease's destructive effect on cat populations, but I doubt we'll ever be rid of it due to the reservoirs in feral, unvaccinated cat colonies and the fomites in the environment.

Here's some information about Panleukopenia from the AVMA & UGA: https://ebusiness.avma.org/ebusiness50/files/productdownloads/FelinePanleukopenia_En.pdf

http://www.vet.uga.edu/VPP/clerk/mcninch/index.php
 
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Having an outbreak usually means being able to send animals off to other places is out of the question. That would violate some major tenets of epidemiology.

A. Panleuk is still highly contagious and persists for a long time in the environment. Even vaccinating animals on intake, there can be cases of very young, immunologically naive kittens dying from panleukopenia because they are infected before the vaccine has caused protective immunity. With the timing of boosters and difficulty in finding space to isolate all kittens with no vaccine histories for several weeks until they have protective immunity, deaths can still occur.

B. The virus is extremely hardy. It can last in the environment for a VERY LONG TIME. How large of an isolation area do you think most shelters have to house suspected cases of infectious disease and do you think they want to put seriously infected animals next to animals with minor illnesses who are already in Iso? It's easy in hind-sight to think of all the protective/preventative measures a facility can utilize to prevent exposure, but there are fomites all around us and viruses can be carried by all of them. I agree a facility ought to try its best to have proper protocols, but even with the best protocols in place, outbreaks can still occur.

C. According to the link I've attached you're right that outbreaks are rare, but they occur most frequently at "kennels, pet shops, animal shelters, unvaccinated feral cat colonies, and other areas where groups of cats are housed together appear to be the main reservoirs of FP. During the warm months, urban areas are likely to see outbreaks of FP because cats are more likely to come in contact with other cats." Vaccination has come a long way in reducing this disease's destructive effect on cat populations, but I doubt we'll ever be rid of it due to the reservoirs in feral, unvaccinated cat colonies and the fomites in the environment.

Here's some information about Panleukopenia from the AVMA & UGA: https://ebusiness.avma.org/ebusiness50/files/productdownloads/FelinePanleukopenia_En.pdf

http://www.vet.uga.edu/VPP/clerk/mcninch/index.php

Thank you for posting this response - I felt turned off by the response to my original post because it felt harsh and I couldn't really articulate a response that wasn't full of emotion. I appreciate that you took the time to put together a response that pulls together the facts and points about panluk

The shelter I worked at did everything they could to keep from euthanizing all the cats in the building and to think that they did so without much thought, grief, and distress is to not truly understand shelter work.

All cats were vaccinated upon arrival (always had been), much isolation was attempted, they stopped taking in any new cats (even refused to allow cats in foster to come back in the building), increased and hardened cleaning protocols, but it didn't work. To this day the word panluk still brings slight chills because of how serious a situation it can cause - nothing like that happens in a shelter without it traumatizing the staff (those that worked there when it happened and even those that came to work there after - as I did)
 
Right with you Cypress. And many shelters are open-intake and legally cannot turn animals away, making the situation even more pressing.
Sometimes in outbreaks depopulation is all you can do given that shelter's layout and resources. What is worse - euthanizing X number of animals or letting 10X number of animals suffer and probably die?
 
Thank you for posting this response - I felt turned off by the response to my original post because it felt harsh and I couldn't really articulate a response that wasn't full of emotion. I appreciate that you took the time to put together a response that pulls together the facts and points about panluk

The shelter I worked at did everything they could to keep from euthanizing all the cats in the building and to think that they did so without much thought, grief, and distress is to not truly understand shelter work.

All cats were vaccinated upon arrival (always had been), much isolation was attempted, they stopped taking in any new cats (even refused to allow cats in foster to come back in the building), increased and hardened cleaning protocols, but it didn't work. To this day the word panluk still brings slight chills because of how serious a situation it can cause - nothing like that happens in a shelter without it traumatizing the staff (those that worked there when it happened and even those that came to work there after - as I did)

I worked at a place that had an outbreak, too. We didn't have to euthanize all the cats, but a significant number of kittens were felled by the virus. It was so tragic. The only way we got control of the situation was to put people on overtime (i.e. normally a 10-hr day became a 12-14-hr day) to basically attempt to disinfect the entire building, and enact all those quarantine/isolation protocols that you mentioned.
 
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