Short story of encouragement to applicants with borderline or failing grades...

[DoctorRx1986]

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Hello, fellow SDNers. Previous threads I've read have indicated a general feeling of unease and doubt among former or current pharmacy school applicants about academic ability and the rigors of pursuing a pharmacy education. Many express uncertainty because of low grades and failures. Well, in an attempt to put those worries to rest, let me provide a little anecdote of what a pharmacist I worked with today told me.

I live in New York and work at a CVS. Normally, I work with two different pharmacists, one of whom is currently on vacation and the other off. As a substitute, we had a pharmacist from another CVS pharmacy work today's shift and I had the opportunity of meeting her and getting to know stuff about her education, background, and how she got started in the pharmacy profession.

Initially, as both of us began exchanging information, I asked her out of curiosity what her favorite course was as a student in college and if she really liked chemistry. She said her favorite course in college was biology and that she didn't really like chemistry very much. In fact, when I referred to ORGANIC CHEMISTRY (a major love and passion of mine as a subject), she said she hated the material in this course. Here is the catch though: Not only did she hate organic chemistry, but she failed it 3 times for a variety of reasons, both personal and instructional. Further, she was a student at LIU for the pre-professional phase, but when it came time to apply for the professional phase of the program, the dean downright rejected her because of her low GPA and multiple failures. She got kicked out of the school.

While many of her peers were ecstatic about being accepted into the professional program at LIU, she had ALL doors closed and felt like a complete failure. But it doesn't end yet...in the end, she was accepted into St. John's University and completed her pharmacy degree in 2001. So....What is the point I'm making?

Simple. For those of you who stress about having a B+ or a C in organic chemistry, calculus, biology, statistics, or any other pre-requisite, relax. You are not somehow inferior intellectually and having a lower grade will not automatically eliminate you as a future applicant. Just look at this woman I've referred to. She failed ochem, probably one of the most looked upon courses, 3 times, not once or twice, and yet, in the present day, she is a pharmacist. Additionally, some of her peers who were excited about starting the professional coursework later dropped out within the 4th or even 5th year. Someone who was at the bottom rose to the top despite being rejected at LIU and failing an important chemistry course three times.

So, in light of this story, I encourage current applicants and future applicants not to stress about a meaningless C or B in a particular course. If you do well in all your other courses, you have a great shot at getting in. More over, I'm the type of person who believes that if something is in your destiny, it will happen at one point or another. I know not everyone might agree with me, but if it it's in your destiny to become a pharmacist, you WILL become one. It is all a matter of choices, perseverance, hard work, and the willingess to overlook a C. I see many people on SDN thinking about retaking a course in which they earned a C. Why bother? Apply anyway. You didn't fail the course anyway and that C, however mediocre it appears to be, indicates minimum or average mastery of the material, not failure. So, for those sticklers here, if you took organic chemmistry 1 and obtained a C and earned an A in the second semester, why bother retaking the first semester if you clearly demonstrated mastery of what is supposed to be a more challenging second term of the course?

I really hope you give these things some consideration.

 

[kgard7777]

Hello!

Great story and thanks for sharing

 

[jiiniix2]

This is exactly how I feel when people ask if they should apply or not based on their GPA's, PCAT's, and whatnot. My feeling is that as long as you meet the minimum requirements, why not apply (unless finance is the issue). You never know what would happen and luck might be on your side. People might tell you that you won't be competitive, but then again even if they're trying to be realistic, they're not on the adcom.

This applied to me too. My GPA was low but that didn't stop me from applying. What I might have lack with GPA I tried to make up for in ECs, LORs, and the PS. In my PS, I emphasized the qualities that I have that would make me a great pharmacist such as time management (ie working 3 jobs while attending school).

Point is... just apply, you have nothing to lose except for several hundred dollars. 😛

 

[typharm]

I believe that the story has encouraged many readers. I think the same way about "destiny" too and it's better not to let bad grades hold me back.

 

[pkp]

This is exactly how I feel when people ask if they should apply or not based on their GPA's, PCAT's, and whatnot. My feeling is that as long as you meet the minimum requirements, why not apply (unless finance is the issue). You never know what would happen and luck might be on your side. People might tell you that you won't be competitive, but then again even if they're trying to be realistic, they're not on the adcom.

This applied to me too. My GPA was never above a 3.0 since I started college. That didn't stop me from applying. What I might have lack with GPA I tried to make up for in ECs, LORs, and the PS. In my PS, I emphasized the qualities that I have that would make me a great pharmacist such as time management (ie working 3 jobs while attending school).

Point is... just apply, you have nothing to lose except for several hundred dollars. 😛

If you don't mind my asking, what was your overall GPA? You are giving me hope! I was planning on only applying to candidate schools.

 

[ffpickle]

while inspiring, imo, this story doesn't seem to add up, particularly the part about failing Ochem 3x and still making it to pharm school. I know it's a hard subject, but it seems even harder to be able to fail 3 times.

 

[DoctorRx1986]

while inspiring, imo, this story doesn't seem to add up, particularly the part about failing Ochem 3x and still making it to pharm school. I know it's a hard subject, but it seems even harder to be able to fail 3 times.

Well, while it may not seem to add up, it's the truth. It seems hard to you to fail it three times probably because you did well in it, but to some people, such as the pharmacist I've referred to, it was a very big obstacle course in their careers. Not every story seems to add up sometimes and that doesn't preclude it from being true.

 

[cdhoward]

This certainly is a great success story, but I must say...

I hate to play 'Debbie Downer,' but if she graduated pharmacy school in 2001, then she began no later than 1997. It was a lot easier to get in pharmacy school then than it is now.

 

[Sparda29]

Yeah, but basically she had to start all over again. Whatever years she spent at LIU + 6 years at St. John's.

 

[bklyngirl]

Yeah, but basically she had to start all over again. Whatever years she spent at LIU + 6 years at St. John's.

She most likely was accepted to St. John's for the professional phase so it's not 6 years at St. John's but 4.

 

[bklyngirl]

She most likely was accepted to St. John's for the professional phase so it's not 6 years at St. John's but 4.

St. John's accepted transfer students in the late 1990's. I'm sure that if this pharmacist completed all prerequisites, they wouldn't have her start from the beginning. Therefore, she probably spent 4 years at St. John's, and 2-3 previously at LIU completing prereq's - compatible to what it usually takes to achieve a pharmD degree.

 

[AbsoluteEthanol]

are you trying to make the point that even if students don't take their school work seriously they shouldn't stress because there is always a money hungry private school that is willing to decrease the academic merit of the average pharmacist for a profit?


thanks for sharing, but i already knew that!

 

[bklyngirl]

are you trying to make the point that even if students don't take their school work seriously they shouldn't stress because there is always a money hungry private school that is willing to decrease the academic merit of the average pharmacist for a profit?


thanks for sharing, but i already knew that!

What he's trying to say is that if you really, really want something don't let anyone get in the way of you pursuing it. Although this pharmacist failed orgo 3 times, none of us really know the circumstances behind this. BUT in the end her determination helped her to achieve her goal, while others she knew did not struggle earlier, but wound up dropping out later.
It may have also helped her because she probably was a NYC resident, applying to one of two NYC pharmacy schools. NYC has had a pharmacy shortage for a while now, and St. John's and LIU giving preference to NYC applicants who plan on working in the city will help alleviate the shortage.
I myself have a few B's and C's from freshman year. Not due to laziness, but stress. I was and continue to be a serious student, and believe there are many other applicants like myself who take education seriously, but weren't successful in being a straight A student. As we all know, an A in one college may be a hell of alot easier to achieve than at another. That's what PCAT's are for - to even the score

 

[medicalCPA]

are you trying to make the point that even if students don't take their school work seriously they shouldn't stress because there is always a money hungry private school that is willing to decrease the academic merit of the average pharmacist for a profit?


thanks for sharing, but i already knew that!

Seriously?!?!?

 

[cystapharm]

wow failing it 3X is really something. was she not smart enough to not take it again until she is ready to take it?? or do some research and look for better professors?


she was lucky she got accepted because when you go into a profession where poeples' lives are in your hands you can't really say oops lets try it again.

i hope she gahters all her weak subjects in pharamcy school and really nail it before she goes out an practice.

 

[Allure]

I think you should be more careful of what you post online because the way you described the pharmacist as in where she currently lives and works, where she went to school as undergrad and for pharmacy school, it's not hard for people to be able to identify her. It would be worst if she was on the site and saw the story herself, especially if she never gave you permission to put her story online.

 

[DoctorRx1986]

I think you should be more careful of what you post online because the way you described the pharmacist as in where she currently lives and works, where she went to school as undergrad and for pharmacy school, it's not hard for people to be able to identify her. It would be worst if she was on the site and saw the story herself, especially if she never gave you permission to put her story online.

Thanks for the advice, but there is no need for the paranoia. The chances of her being identified are slim to none and even if she was, what does it matter? In the end, she is a successful pharmacist and that is what matters. There are thousands of pharmacists here and she is not likely to be identified. If you have nothing to contribute to the discussion like other posters have done without pointing the finger, please refrain from posting these kinds of non-sense posts. 🙂👍

 

[DoctorRx1986]

What he's trying to say is that if you really, really want something don't let anyone get in the way of you pursuing it. Although this pharmacist failed orgo 3 times, none of us really know the circumstances behind this. BUT in the end her determination helped her to achieve her goal, while others she knew did not struggle earlier, but wound up dropping out later.
It may have also helped her because she probably was a NYC resident, applying to one of two NYC pharmacy schools. NYC has had a pharmacy shortage for a while now, and St. John's and LIU giving preference to NYC applicants who plan on working in the city will help alleviate the shortage.
I myself have a few B's and C's from freshman year. Not due to laziness, but stress. I was and continue to be a serious student, and believe there are many other applicants like myself who take education seriously, but weren't successful in being a straight A student. As we all know, an A in one college may be a hell of alot easier to achieve than at another. That's what PCAT's are for - to even the score

RIGHT ON TARGET...🙂 Got the message and point exactly.

 

[DoctorRx1986]

are you trying to make the point that even if students don't take their school work seriously they shouldn't stress because there is always a money hungry private school that is willing to decrease the academic merit of the average pharmacist for a profit?


thanks for sharing, but i already knew that!

No, poor interpretation Must improve reading comprehension, I see. Lol, jp. Read the Bklyngirl's post down below. That is the central theme of the story. A private pharmacy school is not going to accept you for a profit if in the end you might turn out to be a liability. They don't want to risk accepting a student who is likely to drop out or do they? They'll lose more and have a negative profit if the student drops out rather than choosing someone qualified who will stay the entire four years and pay tuition each year.

 

[Mistysmoke]

As a person struggling through, of all things, an intro to chem class online, I appreciate the story. I am not slacking off, I generally study 8 hours three days a week for chem and 8 hours 3 days a week for the biology class I am taking. I try to take a break one day a week, but, it usually doesn't happen like that. If you were to ask my family they would say all I do is study. I have two kids that I am taking care of as well as an extended family member. My friends that live nearby are irritated because I have not seen them since the day before classes started, in May.

I am at the point where part of me is wondering what other career I can go into that truly helps others and the other part is saying hogwash, you can do this.

So, I appreciate the story.

 

[Sparda29]

The thing with Organic Chemistry is that, it is not a judge of how smart you are. It is a judge of how hard you work. I'm gonna be honest, my 1st and 2nd time in Organic I and 1st time in Organic II, my strategies were basically to study in a way that involved the least amount of work. The strategy backfired horribly. (Received these grades respectively, UW,D,F.)

My 3rd time in Organic I and 2nd time in Organic II, I decided to do every homework problem in the book and studied probably 7-8 hours/week for Organic, resulting in an A in Orgo I, and a B in Orgo II.

I've said this before about PharmCAS.

Yes, the people who took Organic once and did great in it should be rewarded, but not by making it harder for those who struggled.

You still have to put all your grades down anyway.

Let's say they only count the highest grades on PharmCAS, my GPA is a 3.4. Now, compare this to a person with a 3.4 PharmCAS as well, but did well the same time.

The school will be able to see that the person was able to complete it in one try, and that is where they get the reward.

Now, by counting every grade, it reduces my GPA to like a 2.8. I asked LIU about the system, and I was told that they do have a GPA cutoff. So, if my GPA is below a 3.0, the rest of my application is not even looked at, never even giving me a chance to awe them with the PCAT, or essay, or LORs.

 

[ffpickle]

The thing with Organic Chemistry is that, it is not a judge of how smart you are. It is a judge of how hard you work. I'm gonna be honest, my 1st and 2nd time in Organic I and 1st time in Organic II, my strategies were basically to study in a way that involved the least amount of work. The strategy backfired horribly. (Received these grades respectively, UW,D,F.)

My 3rd time in Organic I and 2nd time in Organic II, I decided to do every homework problem in the book and studied probably 7-8 hours/week for Organic, resulting in an A in Orgo I, and a B in Orgo II.

I've said this before about PharmCAS.

Yes, the people who took Organic once and did great in it should be rewarded, but not by making it harder for those who struggled.

You still have to put all your grades down anyway.

Let's say they only count the highest grades on PharmCAS, my GPA is a 3.4. Now, compare this to a person with a 3.4 PharmCAS as well, but did well the same time.

The school will be able to see that the person was able to complete it in one try, and that is where they get the reward.

Now, by counting every grade, it reduces my GPA to like a 2.8. I asked LIU about the system, and I was told that they do have a GPA cutoff. So, if my GPA is below a 3.0, the rest of my application is not even looked at, never even giving me a chance to awe them with the PCAT, or essay, or LORs.

Bro, Stop Investing so much energy in complaining on this forum and just get 'er done...everyone makes mistakes, but honestly, stop crying and just Do what you gotta do to mitigate the negative effects of poor decisions in the past.

 

[mrblah]

Bro, Stop Investing so much energy in complaining on this forum and just get 'er done...everyone makes mistakes, but honestly, stop crying and just Do what you gotta do to mitigate the negative effects of poor decisions in the past.

well said... Some people use failure as a way to motivate them to succeed and I give them props. Others just like to whine and blame everyone but themselves for their own personal failure.

 

[Sparda29]

Bro, Stop Investing so much energy in complaining on this forum and just get 'er done...everyone makes mistakes, but honestly, stop crying and just Do what you gotta do to mitigate the negative effects of poor decisions in the past.

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm not blaming the professors, the guy who ruined the curve, the blame is on me. All I'm saying is, does it make sense for me to have to jump through flaming hoops now to try to get into pharmacy school?

For me to increase my GPA to a 3.8, I would have to get A's in every class for about 2 more years.

 

[Nubianssense]

I agree with the original post. Sometimes people need a second chance at it. Obviously STJU gave her the second chance she needs and indeed she completed the program. Also some schools curriculum is not feasible for all students. And I believe the moral of the story is to not give up just because you did not excel in a course, but just focus on making sure you excel at everything else. Most people will give up after failing the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd time but she kept her dream alive. Thanks for the post..

 

[jyw003]

Very inspiring. This has always been my mind set, but until I read it in your words, I didn't think much of it. Thanks for the great reminder =]. Good luck to all that are applying.