Should I answer this secondary question?

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"If applicable, indicate any special experiences, unusual factors or other information not previously included in your AMCAS application or this supplement that you feel the admission committee should consider when evaluating your application."

The only thing I can think of is my MCAT score. I got a 7 in PS both times I took it. Overall score was 27 (7 PS, 10 VR, 10 BS). It was really a lack of preparation for physics on my part. Also my physics grades were lower than my other grades (B- both semesters).

Should I own up to a weakness in physics or just let it go unmentioned?

Why would you want to bring to light your weakness is physics?

You're supposed to be portraying yourself in as favorable a manner as possible. Drawing negative attention to any part of your application when it's not absolutely necessary is just silly.
 
"If applicable, indicate any special experiences, unusual factors or other information not previously included in your AMCAS application or this supplement that you feel the admission committee should consider when evaluating your application."

The only thing I can think of is my MCAT score. I got a 7 in PS both times I took it. Overall score was 27 (7 PS, 10 VR, 10 BS). It was really a lack of preparation for physics on my part. Also my physics grades were lower than my other grades (B- both semesters).

Should I own up to a weakness in physics or just let it go unmentioned?

Should you be even applying with a 27? I hope the rest of your application is solid to compensate, or that you are selecting the right batch of schools to apply to.

Since you're already knee deep in the application cycle, I don't see any reason why you should address your physics deficiency. It doesn't seem like you have a good reason behind your poor performance. By telling the admissions committee it was due to a lack of preparation (so you didn't prepare for both the MCAT physical sciences AND your physics classes?), they'll have a more tangible reason to throw your application aside. You got a 7 both times and that tells me you didn't prepare any better the second time.
 
No. That area is meant to explain stuff like illness, death in family, medical condition, etc. that lead to poor grades, bad MCAT scores, holes in EC's, etc.

You sure as hell shouldn't bring even MORE attention to what is already a red flag and just say you "aren't good at it." If you aren't good at it there are 1000's of applicants who are and to adcoms you are just another applicant and they will reject you coldblooded. Don't dig your own grave.
 
"If applicable, indicate any special experiences, unusual factors or other information not previously included in your AMCAS application or this supplement that you feel the admission committee should consider when evaluating your application."

The only thing I can think of is my MCAT score. I got a 7 in PS both times I took it. Overall score was 27 (7 PS, 10 VR, 10 BS). It was really a lack of preparation for physics on my part. Also my physics grades were lower than my other grades (B- both semesters).

Should I own up to a weakness in physics or just let it go unmentioned?
Surely this is a joke...?

You are going to tell a school that the reason your score is bad is because you didn't prepare for it...? And somehow expect a response outside of a swift and merciless rejection?
 
Thanks...

There is way too much emphasis on the MCAT by the people on the allopathic side. I'm going back to the DO forum where people actually realize there is more to a person than an MCAT score. The MCAT is invalid (and unreliable actually) in a lot of ways anyway...hardly a sole predictor of who should be a doctor and who shouldn't.

My score went up 8 points when I retook the MCAT. As you can see, "little changed in my preparation". Same person, completely different scores. Kind of useless IMO.

I appreciate the help anyway...you have answered my question.

MCAT is about the only thing that we can fairly compare applicants to each other (ie - apples to apples). Too much variation and subjectivity in UG's, GPA's, majors, classes taken, EC's done, leadership, research, awards, LORs, essays, etc. to adequately separate applicants IMO.

But lets just agree to disagree on that one. Best of luck this cycle.
 
There is way too much emphasis on the MCAT by the people on the allopathic side. I'm going back to the DO forum where people actually realize there is more to a person than an MCAT score. The MCAT is invalid (and unreliable actually) in a lot of ways anyway...hardly a sole predictor of who should be a doctor and who shouldn't.

My score went up 8 points when I retook the MCAT. As you can see, "little changed in my preparation". Same person, completely different scores. Kind of useless IMO.

You didn't prepare correctly if you went up 8 points, but your physical sciences remained at a 7. We're not talking about the volatile verbal section, this is the very study-able physical sciences section.

I don't think the MCAT is invalid, but I do agree that it shouldn't be a sole predictor of who should be a doctor. Oh wait...that's right, it isn't the sole predictor of who should be a doctor. You can get accepted with a below average MCAT score, and you can get rejected with an above average MCAT score. Whether or not you agree with standardized testing, it is a large part of a medical education. Medical schools won't accept <24 MCAT scores because what chance do these people have at STEP 1, and the many tests that follow in a medical career?

I bet a lot people who complain about the MCAT are the ones that perform poorly on it. I also bet these same people may never have said a word about the SAT because they did just fine on that test. Like all standardized testing, it's all preparation.
 
I already said that I didn't prepare correctly. Mostly because I found the MCAT to be a joke. My verbal score went up SIX points the second time. Little to nothing changed between sittings. That score change is the difference between a doctor and someone who doesn't get in. And that is what MD ADCOMs are placing their bets on. LOL.

I know lots of people with 3.6-3.9 GPA's who did terribly on the MCAT. I am talking scores like 16, 17, 21. They are very intelligent and hard-working people, and now they are reconsidering their careers over this one stupid test. They would make much better doctors than some of the creeps and social ******s from my organic chem classes who happened to get 38's on their MCAT.

Yes, standardized testing is a part of the education process. But people attach way too much weight to the MCAT, that like all tests, doesn't truly test what it says it does. The correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE scores is there...but like basically all correlations the MCAT doesn't explain all the variation. Motivation for medicine, undergraduate science GPA, overall GPA, preparation for the USMLE, performance in medical school...all of these things can explain the rest of the variation. The USMLE is also a completely different test, with a different format, different material, and medical schools try very hard to prepare people for it. I am not convinced that someone with a low MCAT can't make it through medical school if they have otherwise been successful.

I guess that the LORS, essays, transcripts, and interviews that adcoms spend hours upon hours sifting through are just formalities, right?

Although MCAT scores do play a part in admissions, it is definitely not the only part of admissions. The MCAT reveals a side of the applicant that is different from what the sGPA, cGPA, ECs, and interviews reveal.
 
I guess that the LORS, essays, transcripts, and interviews that adcoms spend hours upon hours sifting through are just formalities, right?

Although MCAT scores do play a part in admissions, it is definitely not the only part of admissions. Like sGPA, cGPA, ECs, and interviews, the MCAT sheds more light on the applicant.

I am well aware of the rest of the application process...

The problem is the schools that screen based on NUMBERS. And you know exactly what I am talking about. If you don't have the minimum score, you are OUT. People in this thread even got on and started saying **** about how a low MCAT section is a red flag, that I shouldn't even apply, etc. That lets me know people aren't convinced that other parts of your application are important. They just think "MCAT MCAT MCAT".

I hear so much nonsense from allopathic applicants / MD admissions about the MCAT. The MCAT needs a massive overhaul IMO and admissions need to care less.
 
I am well aware of the rest of the application process...

The problem is the schools that screen based on NUMBERS. And you know exactly what I am talking about. If you don't have the minimum score, you are OUT. People in this thread even got on and started saying **** about how a low MCAT section is a red flag, that I shouldn't even apply, etc. That lets me know people aren't convinced that other parts of your application are important. They just think "MCAT MCAT MCAT".

It's not that people think everything outside the MCAT (and GPA) is unimportant, it's that the more qualitative factors are harder to measure, and thus harder to obsess about.

Trust me, if schools start publishing cutoffs for number of volunteer/research/shadowing/whatever experiences/hours, you'd be hearing a lot more of:

"Only 150 hours in the ED, are you sure you should be applying...?"
 
"If applicable, indicate any special experiences, unusual factors or other information not previously included in your AMCAS application or this supplement that you feel the admission committee should consider when evaluating your application."

Try to find anything that you could write about that would 1) Fulfill the prompt's criteria (important, don't just write about anything), and 2) Increases your chances of getting in - something positive. Frequently, it is a great secondary essay in one of the 'optional' essays that makes a difference. But you don't want to BS it if you can't find something that fits. Show them you want it OP, good luck
 
I already said that I didn't prepare correctly. Mostly because I found the MCAT to be a joke. My verbal score went up SIX points the second time. Little to nothing changed between sittings. That score change is the difference between a doctor and someone who doesn't get in. And that is what MD ADCOMs are placing their bets on. LOL.

I know lots of people with 3.6-3.9 GPA's who did terribly on the MCAT. I am talking scores like 16, 17, 21. They are very intelligent and hard-working people, and now they are reconsidering their careers over this one stupid test. They would make much better doctors than some of the creeps and social ******s from my organic chem classes who happened to get 38's on their MCAT.

Yes, standardized testing is a part of the education process. But people attach way too much weight to the MCAT, that like all tests, doesn't truly test what it says it does. The correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE scores is there...but like basically all correlations the MCAT doesn't explain all the variation. Motivation for medicine, undergraduate science GPA, overall GPA, preparation for the USMLE, performance in medical school...all of these things can explain the rest of the variation. The USMLE is also a completely different test, with a different format, different material, and medical schools try very hard to prepare people for it. I am not convinced that someone with a low MCAT can't make it through medical school if they have otherwise been successful.
Awesome. I love it when people think they are entitled to medical school without doing the work involved. Next time you decide not to take the exam seriously and do a crappy job, please don't whine to the folks who study their asses off to give themselves the opportunity to be competitive for a career that they actually care enough about to spend a couple of months of dedication to. None of us liked taking the MCAT, but we cared enough about being doctors to suck it up. Please feel free to do the same.

You have got to be a troll.
 
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I am well aware of the rest of the application process...

The problem is the schools that screen based on NUMBERS. And you know exactly what I am talking about. If you don't have the minimum score, you are OUT. People in this thread even got on and started saying **** about how a low MCAT section is a red flag, that I shouldn't even apply, etc. That lets me know people aren't convinced that other parts of your application are important. They just think "MCAT MCAT MCAT".

I hear so much nonsense from allopathic applicants / MD admissions about the MCAT. The MCAT needs a massive overhaul IMO and admissions need to care less.

Lol-he-mad.jpg
 
I was talking with a professor a couple years ago about what a drag standardized testing is. And he said "colleges just want to see what amount of crap you're willing to wade through to achieve your goal." I think this is always a good thing to keep in mind, sometimes schools aren't necessarily looking at your scores but how you can handle disappointment etc. Yes, the mcat sucks it's probably unfair to applicants in some ways, but nothing in life is ever truly fair so just relax and don't let it bother you.
As for your prompt, I can't offer too much advice because I'm in your same boat, but I used a space like that to talk about things I didn't have a chance to in my personal statement. Good Luck! 🙂
 
You have a 7 in Physics times 2 test administrations and B-/B- in physics.

As I have been known to say, "Don't mention the zit on your chin. The adcom can see the zit; why draw attention to it? Instead, draw their attention to something you'd like them to focus on."

Would you go on a blind date and then say, "I have this zit, right here. It is because I'm not very diligent at washing my face." 🙄
 
...There is way too much emphasis on the MCAT by the people on the allopathic side. I'm going back to the DO forum where people actually realize there is more to a person than an MCAT score. The MCAT is invalid (and unreliable actually) in a lot of ways anyway...hardly a sole predictor of who should be a doctor and who shouldn't.

My score went up 8 points when I retook the MCAT. As you can see, "little changed in my preparation". Same person, completely different scores. Kind of useless IMO.
Just because you don't approve of the test's content/methods doesn't mean you can use it as an excuse for the product of your (lack of?) efforts. Yes it's not entirely fair, yes your score could be different if you woke up on the other side of the bed that day, but you just have to play the game and account for as many variables as you can beforehand.
 
The MCAT is invalid (and unreliable actually) in a lot of ways anyway...hardly a sole predictor of who should be a doctor and who shouldn't.

The MCAT isn't the sole predictor of who should be a doctor? 😕 Look I understand where you're coming from in that adcoms look at a 5 hour test that you took and weigh it almost as equally as 4 years of performance, but there is no need to be discrediting the test, as well as putting down allopathic medical schools.

As someone who got into 2 MD schools who scored in the 27-29 MCAT range I can tell you for a fact that they don't just look at MCAT scores.

Also, something that you seem to be forgetting is that more people apply to MD schools than they do DO. When you have over 50,000 applicants, do you really think that they're going to have the time to sit down and thoroughly look through all of those applications? Absolutely not. They need ways of cutting down the # of applicants b/c let's face it, it is a competition after all (unfortunately). The MCAT is one of several factors that they use to eliminate applicants. Is it fair? No. But given the tons of applicants every year it's understandable.

Trust me, you will see that as the # of DO applicants increase the average MCAT scores of those who are accepted will increase as well.
 
OP wouldn't be bashing the MCAT if she got a balanced 36 on it. She'd probably be hailing it as the great equalizer that it is. It's funny how a low score suddenly means that the test is a bad judge of intelligence and work ethic instead of exposing your own weaknesses.
 
Awesome. I love it when people think they are entitled to medical school without doing the work involved. Next time you decide not to take the exam seriously and do a crappy job, please don't whine to the folks who study their asses off to give themselves the opportunity to be competitive for a career that they actually care enough about to spend a couple of months of dedication to. None of us liked taking the MCAT, but we cared enough about being doctors to suck it up. Please feel free to do the same.

You have got to be a troll.

👍👍


Thanks to the people who were helpful.
....
Heavy reliance on the MCAT in the admissions process leaves adcoms ignoring important social traits in applicants. That's why I prefer DO schools...the approach is holistic and even their admissions process is holistic when it comes to applicants. I have met some really weird and arrogant people who did well on the MCAT. The thought of them being responsible for someone's health is really scary actually. They lacked some really basic social intuition. But they will probably get in because adcoms love those high MCAT scores. Part of being a doctor is being good at communicating and dealing with people.

Observe the correlation:

8z0mjr.jpg

I have seen some pretty crazy people who didn't do well on their MCATs.. What does that mean then?

You do realize that there is a good number of applicants with near perfect stats getting rejected right? Like hundreds of them?
Wouldn't it be best to have a doctor that is both empathic and proficient (knowledgeable)?
 
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They lacked some really basic social intuition. But they will probably get in because adcoms love those high MCAT scores.

Okay, so not only now is the MCAT a worthless test and MD schools are unfairly choosing applicants, but now MD students lack basic social skills?

Well let me enlighten you with my own personal experience. I will not name the DO school that I interviewed at, but I can tell you right now that the students that they selected to represent their school were some of the most arrogant pricks I've ever met in my life. The whole time was them telling me why they were better than MDs. I was so put off I immediately called the school when they accepted me to tell them that I was rejecting their offer. 👎

This isn't a "my school is better than your school" competition. Get over this bitterness and grow up.
 

I guess I'm completely incapable of talking to people since I have negative social skills.

okay-face.jpg


If you honestly think that chart is in any way true, you are either 1) a ***** or 2) someone with a low MCAT score trying feel better about yourself. I'm gunna go with #2 with a little bit of #1 mixed in.
 
Thanks to the people who were helpful.



As for you, I don't think anyone is entitled to medical school. But some people are certainly more qualified to be doctors than others and for the most part, that qualification doesn't have much to do with their MCAT score. Your performance on the MCAT shows me how good you are at taking the MCAT and reading its pointlessly convoluted passages with questions that use too many double negatives. The PCAT is IMO a superior way to assess someone's scientific knowledge and abilities.

Heavy reliance on the MCAT in the admissions process leaves adcoms ignoring important social traits in applicants. That's why I prefer DO schools...the approach is holistic and even their admissions process is holistic when it comes to applicants. I have met some really weird and arrogant people who did well on the MCAT. The thought of them being responsible for someone's health is really scary actually. They lacked some really basic social intuition. But they will probably get in because adcoms love those high MCAT scores. Part of being a doctor is being good at communicating and dealing with people.

Observe the correlation:

8z0mjr.jpg

Now I know where OP's terrible PS scores came from. A lack of understanding of basic math and reading graphs.
 
You have a 7 in Physics times 2 test administrations and B-/B- in physics.

As I have been known to say, "Don't mention the zit on your chin. The adcom can see the zit; why draw attention to it? Instead, draw their attention to something you'd like them to focus on."

Would you go on a blind date and then say, "I have this zit, right here. It is because I'm not very diligent at washing my face." 🙄

As always, this is great.
 
I didn't label it with numbers, did I? 😉 I drew it so the message would be simple. Although the message has been lost on you.

I am satisfied with my MCAT score...as I did well enough. And you know what, the whole time I was studying I was going out with friends, hanging out with my girlfriend and having a good time. I wouldn't give that up for another point or two on the MCAT.

Many pre-meds become so engrossed in the MCAT and their studies that they become what I consider pre-med robots. The term gunner gets thrown around here, which is definitely part of the group I am referring to. Your social ability is like a muscle; the more you use it the more it grows. And it can't grow if all you do is sit in the library all day preparing for the MCAT, doing unnecessary hours of EC's for medical school that you don't even want to do, etc. I really think that is why many doctors are the way they are. The AAMC even made a comment about it a while ago...and they added the Writing Section. They decided that they wanted to combat the reputation of doctors as unsociable scientists basically. Unfortunately no one really cares about the Writing Section.

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people complain about things doctors have done:

1. Not making eye contact
2. Rude to a patient
3. Didn't listen to a patient, cut them off.
4. Missed basic psychological and social background that would have led to a correct diagnosis.
5. Didn't explain a patient's illness well.

My philosophy is study hard when you have to, but never study so hard that you cease to be a well-rounded person. Because people are not just biological machines to be understood in terms of physiology and diagrams; there are a whole world of psychological and social aspects of a person that you can only understand from well...stepping outside of the library.

Give it up already.
 
I have seen some pretty crazy people who didn't do well on their MCATs.. What does that mean then?

You do realize that there is a good number of applicants with near perfect stats getting rejected right? Like hundreds of them?
Wouldn't it be best to have a doctor that is both empathic and proficient (knowledgeable)?

Yes, absolutely! It is best to have that kind of doctor! And that is what I am talking all about. I want a whole lot more doctors to be that way.

You pointed out counter examples and I would never deny the fact that those counter examples are out there. I expect them. But I am talking about a general trend I have seen with doctors, the general public has seen...the AAMC themselves have seen...
 
My philosophy is study hard when you have to, but never study so hard that you cease to be a well-rounded person.

Well OP I think you may find your philosophy slightly changing when med school hits you but I won't rain on your parade. Good luck to you for this application cycle.
 
Cute. Out of curiosity - are you gay?

Probably

[youtube]rmeDlfk2aYc[/youtube]

But seriously, you do realize he scored higher on 2 sections of his MCAT combined than you did on 3 combined, right?
 
"If applicable, indicate any special experiences, unusual factors or other information not previously included in your AMCAS application or this supplement that you feel the admission committee should consider when evaluating your application."

The only thing I can think of is my MCAT score. I got a 7 in PS both times I took it. Overall score was 27 (7 PS, 10 VR, 10 BS). It was really a lack of preparation for physics on my part. Also my physics grades were lower than my other grades (B- both semesters).

Should I own up to a weakness in physics or just let it go unmentioned?

No. Failing to prepare properly for the mcat and not doing well in your classes do not qualify as special/unusual circumstances. They know your score and grades; no need to talk about them.
 
in response to the OP, I don't think that the prompt necessarily means that you have to dwell on a negative experience. The special experience or unusual factor could be some positive attribute or experience that lets you stand out or has pushed you towards a career in medicine. Try to think of something unique that will help contribute to your application in a positive way. I really don't think that you need to explain a bad grade.

Also I think it is extremely unfair that everyone is bashing the OP for simply defending his or herself in response to certain people tearing apart their application. This is a forum to help people and answer their questions, not mock them and tear them apart... You will be much more helpful to people when you are being respectful, not condescending
 
I am satisfied with my MCAT score...as I did well enough. And you know what, the whole time I was studying I was going out with friends, hanging out with my girlfriend and having a good time. I wouldn't give that up for another point or two on the MCAT.

Many pre-meds become so engrossed in the MCAT and their studies that they become what I consider pre-med robots. The term gunner gets thrown around here, which is definitely part of the group I am referring to. Your social ability is like a muscle; the more you use it the more it grows. And it can't grow if all you do is sit in the library all day preparing for the MCAT, doing unnecessary hours of EC's for medical school that you don't even want to do, etc. I really think that is why many doctors are the way they are.
Here's where you lost me. 👎 Allow me to explain my point of view.

Becoming a doctor is a privilege! All I read in this post is ENTITLEMENT. A doctor should be prepared to sacrifice his own social time and enjoyment for his patients. If you don't believe that, well....... I wouldn't want you to be my doctor.

This obviously can't be a black and white issue, but frankly it seems "having a good time" instead of gunning for "another point or two on the MCAT" demonstrates a certain lack of self-sacrifice that I believe is desirable for physicians. In other words: you should have sucked it up and studied more. Sorry!
 
Still, you have to give it to DO ninjas that sneak in and wreak this much havok. I especially loved the paintbrush graph, it kept me on the edge of my seat.
 
Here's where you lost me. 👎 Allow me to explain my point of view.

Becoming a doctor is a privilege! All I read in this post is ENTITLEMENT. A doctor should be prepared to sacrifice his own social time and enjoyment for his patients. If you don't believe that, well....... I wouldn't want you to be my doctor.

This obviously can't be a black and white issue, but frankly it seems "having a good time" instead of gunning for "another point or two on the MCAT" demonstrates a certain lack of self-sacrifice that I believe is desirable for physicians. In other words: you should have sucked it up and studied more. Sorry!

Plus, not going out with friends every night the month before the MCAT doesn't equate to a lack of social skills. Just looking around the mcat subforum, no study plan requires studying 12 hours a day for 3 months straight, and those who do well are not becoming hermits over their study period. More than that, one of the most effective methods for studying is working with others and explaining something that you have a better understanding of (something really central to doctor/patient interaction). The general attitude on this site is to study seriously, but not ignore break days or study too much so that you avoid burning out. You can still have fun and study well.

The posts in this topic aren't meant to berate the OP's score, but his/her attitude towards it. Most people can accept that the verbal scores can be really volatile, but the PS and BS can definitely be studied for. Adcoms need some way to measure academic performance that is standarized across schools, and this is really the only way to do it. They obviously do care about social skills and such, and that's why they place so much weight on LOR, ECs, and interviews, but they do need to look for academic achievement and intelligence too.

SaviorFaire, how would you propose they change it? Just interview everyone or only those with low scores (since that supposedly equates to better social skills)?
 
Thanks to the people who were helpful.



As for you, I don't think anyone is entitled to medical school. But some people are certainly more qualified to be doctors than others and for the most part, that qualification doesn't have much to do with their MCAT score. Your performance on the MCAT shows me how good you are at taking the MCAT and reading its pointlessly convoluted passages with questions that use too many double negatives. The PCAT is IMO a superior way to assess someone's scientific knowledge and abilities.

Heavy reliance on the MCAT in the admissions process leaves adcoms ignoring important social traits in applicants. That's why I prefer DO schools...the approach is holistic and even their admissions process is holistic when it comes to applicants. I have met some really weird and arrogant people who did well on the MCAT. The thought of them being responsible for someone's health is really scary actually. They lacked some really basic social intuition. But they will probably get in because adcoms love those high MCAT scores. Part of being a doctor is being good at communicating and dealing with people.

Observe the correlation:

8z0mjr.jpg
Sweet graph, next time I meet someone with a sub-zero mcat score, I will be sure to ask for his advice on common social graces.

DO admissions are not any more holistic than MD admissions. A high mcat score does not guarantee admission into any MD school. But you must be right, adcoms obviously have no idea what they are doing when picking the best applicants, and that is why the leagues of MDs out there are incompetent bastards while DOs go out to fix their mistakes and "treat the whole person" right?

And yes, your attitude is very much entitlement. You seem to think that you deserve to get into an MD program without doing the work involved. If you truly only scored a 7 on ps because you didn't care enough about doing well on it (which, after seeing that little figure of yours, I'm less inclined to believe is actually the case), and then come onto the pre allo forum talking about how you deserve to go to an MD school (and you are going to be a better doctor than the rest of us because you didn't study for your mcat), then yes, that is entitlement.
 
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