Should I apply again?

[35m]

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gpa: 3.85
mcat: 35m

I graduated after two years rather than four, but with no ECs other than 24 hours of shadowing. I applied after graduating, rather than during my junior year (semester).

I submitted AMCAS with only the shadowing for ECs, which hurt me a bit, but I got three interviews. By the time of my interviews, I was doing some volunteer work, working 12 hours per week as an emergency room orderly, and had been certified as EMT Basic.

I feel like I have wasted a year, and that I am not making much progress; I do not want to waste a second year.

My weakness is that I lack initiative and passion. Once I start anything, I finish it succesfullly, but I am not good at starting new things or showing passion toward anything. I was planning on doing more with this past year, but I did not land any full time jobs. I spent a lot of time sitting around waiting for something to happen.

I did not even make an alternate list.

I have been told that my interview performance was lacking. I could improve my skills, but I feel like doing so would be dishonest. If the idea is for them to get to know me, why cant I just be myself? The problem is, the true me is not what they want; I am a dispassionate person, skilled at analytical thinking, who wants to work hard and be well compensated for doing something useful.

I have a friend with cystic fibrosis. I could lie and say that I want to go into medicine because I feel so bad that he is diseased and that this motivates me to want to help all diseased people. I do not think like that. He is just one of many, and my awareness of the many is more significant than my personal interaction with any individuals.

Should I try again? Can a 100% dispassionate person get into medical school with the honest approach?

I am interested in pathology and radiology, but not enough to waste 5 years trying to get accepted

 

[Rogerswife]

I've had the same issue. It feels like medical schools want you to say that you want to be a doctor because of a dying relative, a trip to a third world country, or a religoius revelation. Honestly if that bull**** were true for even half the people who applied then why are plastic surgery and dermatology two of the most competitive residencies? And why would such a huge percentage of doctors be the children of, shocking revalation, doctors? Just a giant conincidence, apparently. None the less 'I think it's a good job and I think I would be good at it' doesn't cut it for medical schools, so short answer yes: I think you should probably turn some mildly influential experience into a revelation. The other alternative, I guess, would be to apply to easier schools. With stats like yours LLU or Howard would probably take you if you showed up to the interview bare-assed.

Also, no hobbies? Before you start Med school you should probably try yoga or something or your head is going to explode.

I completely agree with this. The truth is that you absolutely have to play their game in order to get into medical school. It doesn't matter that it's not fair and that it probably doesn't select for people who would find the most satisfaction in the field. The only thing that matters is that if you play the game you will be successful, and if you don't, you won't. There may be state schools where it is less competetive if you are in-state where this is not true, but the vast majority just want you to stick to the script. I guess it all just depends on whether or not its worth it to you to feel a little bit phony in order to accomplish your goals, and whether you will always wonder what if should you decide you just can't pretend to be someone you're not.

 

[ana]

I've had the same issue. It feels like medical schools want you to say that you want to be a doctor because of a dying relative, a trip to a third world country, or a religoius revelation. ... so short answer yes: I think you should probably turn some mildly influential experience into a revelation.

Also, no hobbies? Before you start Med school you should probably try yoga or something or your head is going to explode.

Wow, I could not disagree with this more. ADCOMs roll their eyes when they read the following on an applicant PS:

" ... as my [significant person] lay there dying..."
" Dr. X was so amazing, he inspired me to be a doctor..."
" .... the poverty I saw inspired me to be a doctor and come back to ..."

I don't know of any applicant who said stuff like that whom I subsequently rated highly when I was an interviewer. Usually, it came out so corny, rehearsed, and mostly just totally ridiculous. When you do this and are not sincere, you really run the risk of appearing exploitive. It's a rare person who can actually talk like that and sound genuine.

Yes, I have interviewed people who have had tragedies or inspirational events in their lives. However, when they discuss it, they are sober, brief, and dignified in their response. It practically never came out in the context of "... this is why I want to become a dr."

 

[ana]

gpa: 3.85
mcat: 35m

I submitted AMCAS with only the shadowing for ECs,

My weakness is that I lack initiative and passion. Once I start anything, I finish it succesfullly, but I am not good at starting new things or showing passion toward anything.

I have been told that my interview performance was lacking. I could improve my skills, but I feel like doing so would be dishonest. If the idea is for them to get to know me, why cant I just be myself?

I have a friend with cystic fibrosis. I could lie and say that I want to go into medicine because I feel so bad that he is diseased and that this motivates me to want to help all diseased people. I do not think like that. He is just one of many, and my awareness of the many is more significant than my personal interaction with any individuals.

Should I try again? Can a 100% dispassionate person get into medical school with the honest approach?

I am interested in pathology and radiology, but not enough to waste 5 years trying to get accepted

Well, what you mean by dispassionate exactly?

There is nothing dishonest with improving your interviewing skills. It's not the content you need to change, it's the delivery.

Sometimes, when I interviewed people for my school, they were so afraid of making a mistake that they were flat in their affect. Is this what you mean?

You want to be "yourself" for the interview? Well, that is like going on a first date and showing up in your comfortable grubbies (geez, even if you were going to the beach, you would still put on nice casual stuff, right?). There's nothing insincere about dressing up and showing you have more serious intentions than that.

Could you be more specific about what your feedback was regarding your interview style?

 

[rdrt]

Wow, I could not disagree with this more. ADCOMs roll their eyes when they read the following on an applicant PS:

" ... as my [significant person] lay there dying..."
" Dr. X was so amazing, he inspired me to be a doctor..."
" .... the poverty I saw inspired me to be a doctor and come back to ..."

I don't know of any applicant who said stuff like that whom I subsequently rated highly when I was an interviewer. Usually, it came out so corny, rehearsed, and mostly just totally ridiculous. When you do this and are not sincere, you really run the risk of appearing explotive. It's a rare person who can actually talk like that and sound genuine.

Yes, I have interviewed people who have had tragedies or inspirational events in their lives. However, when they discuss it, they are sober, brief, and dignified in their response. It practically never came out in the context of "... this is why I want to become a dr."

question: in my ps i talked about an event i witnessed when i was very young, it was my father, an er physician helping a neighbor that had lacerated their hand. from that point i discussed experiences i pursued to decide if medicine was right for me, shadowing and volunteering. when i did the shadowing i learned a lot about medicine and it's application watching those physicians and they did help me make my decision. in my essay i don't fawn over the experience but i talk about how it really reinforced my decision to pursue medicine. is this too cliche?

 

[ana]

question: in my ps i talked about an event i witnessed when i was very young, it was my father, an er physician helping a neighbor that had lacerated their hand. from that point i discussed experiences i pursued to decide if medicine was right for me, shadowing and volunteering. when i did the shadowing i learned a lot about medicine and it's application watching those physicians and they did help me make my decision. in my essay i don't fawn over the experience but i talk about how it really reinforced my decision to pursue medicine. is this too cliche?

I think as long as it wasn't a ... 'SHAZAM!-I-am-suddently-interested-in-medicine!: ... kind of experience, and you didn't make it more than what it was (the first of a series of events with a natural progression), it should be fine. But if you have any doubts, you should show it to a physician (maybe your dad?) or your premed advisor and ask the whole thing sounds.

 

[ana]

Maybe these particular statments are cliched, but you have to admit that medical schools seem to want a bizzare amount of fanaticim from their students compared to other competitive, difficult professions. .. In comparrison I've been advised NEVER to admit that I've considered a non-medical career. ... Is what I've been told wrong? Could I admit to an interviewer that while medicine is by far my top choice, I could picture myself doing engineering, or the military, or research chemistry as well? Could my personal stament really not mention any other motivation other than 'I tried it and liked it'? I'd appreciate hearing this if it's true, because like the OP I also feel sort of guilty.

Anyway, sorry for the slight threadjack. To reitterate to the OP, I think your stats are just to good to quit and not reapply.

I think this is because it takes so long to become a physician as opposed to engineers (academic engineers being excepted). It's terrible to spend 10 years of your life trying to achieve something and then find out its not for you. What can I say? Trying to discern the motivation of an applicant during a short meeting is not easy.


I think you should take the above advice with a grain of salt. You can say you have considered other careers (and let's face it, if you are a non-trad, you have probably had another career), you just have to be able to say why you would choose medicine over that intead. And the reason has to make sense.

Sometimes, you are given no choice about discussing an alternate career. I was once asked what other career I would want to have if I could not become a physician (note there is no way not to answer the question the way it is worded).

To the OP: apologize for the tangients. You definitely have the #s for med school. Just work on interview skills. It's not insincere.

 

[35m]

Well, what you mean by dispassionate exactly?

There is nothing dishonest with improving your interviewing skills. It's not the content you need to change, it's the delivery.

Sometimes, when I interviewed people for my school, they were so afraid of making a mistake that they were flat in their affect. Is this what you mean?

You want to be "yourself" for the interview? Well, that is like going on a first date and showing up in your comfortable grubbies (geez, even if you were going to the beach, you would still put on nice casual stuff, right?). There's nothing insincere about dressing up and showing you have more serious intentions than that.

Could you be more specific about what your feedback was regarding your interview style?

By dispassionate, I mean that there is no emotional force driving me toward a career in medicine. My only motivation is that medicine seems logically to be the best career choice for me, considering my aptitudes and preferences.

As for interviews, content was lacking rather than presentation.

Interview 1:

Q: "Describe a time when you overcame adversity"
A: "I have never faced any significant adversity. "

Q: "Tell me about your ECs and volunteer work during college"
A: "I did not participate in ECs or volunteering during college"

Q: "Why not?"
A: "No activities interested me, and I did not encounter any volunteer activities which I considered worthwhile."

Q: My daughter went to your school and participated in many great volunteer activities. Why could you not find any?
A: Three fourths of the population in the town of the university which I attented are members of the university. I perceived that there was an excess of willing volunteers, so much that there was competition for volunteer opportunites. I care about people getting helped, rather than me being the one who helps them; the altruistic thing to do was to let others perform the volunteering.

I slowly lost my confidence, as I was on the defensive for the majority of the interview. My presentation had declined by the end. I later talked with the dean of admissions, who told me that I received a poor interview score because the interview revealed my lack of ECs; he never mentioned interview skills.

Interview 2:

I thought that I did well. I was never on the defensive, and I thought that my answers were faily intelligent and honest.

I talked with the dean of admissions. She told me that I interviewed poorly. She said that the interviewers questioned my communication skills and my commitment. In the context of our conversation, I interpret this as I failed to communicate what they wanted to hear, since she eventually said "how can we accept you, with , when we have others with comparable numbers who went on missions to Africa?"

Interview 3: I scheduled a second interview with the school at which I first interviewed. I know that I performed poory, as I made clear my lack of confidence, but at this point I had no reason to be confident.

Interview 4: This was an interview for a waitlist. I thought that I did well, although one of the two interviewers at this school made it clear that he did not find my reasons for wanting to pursue medicine convincing. Also, I failed to come up with an intelligent answer to "if you were a chef and could invite any two fictional characters to dinner, who would you chose?"

My last interviewer (interview 4), basically tried to talk me out of pursuing medicine. He asked, "why not biomedical engineering or a university professor?" I had no great answer, other than the truth, which is that I want to live in a rural area, and that there are few oppurtunites for professors and biomedical engineers in rural areas. I neglected to mention that medical doctors get paid better: a factor which I also find attractive.

I think that he wanted me to say that I wanted the personal interaction with patients, but I do not; I want to be a pathologist or radiologist and spend my time alone analyzing with a microscope or looking at xrays in a dark room.

 

[glamqueen]

Although I appreciate your honesty, you don't sound very committed to me, and I'm a peer and not an adcom member....

I know it seems fake to you, but it may not hurt to search HARD for some kind of volunteer opportunity maybe even in radiology etc. or something that you are passionate about so you can talk about it passionately in your next interviews. I totally get why they want future doctors who are absolutely convinced they can be nothing else but a doctor - find a way to present that to them.

 

[Medinsane]

It's fine if you're not intersted in patient work. Just be honest and say that youre interested in sitting in front of a microscope all day. My interviewer was a pathologist and he was honest and said that he wasnt interested in patients either when we were talking.

But its one thing to be honest but another thing to really sell yourself. Youre not selling yourself. When saying that you did not volunteer, you could answer that you were focused on studies. Try not to focus on the negative side of your application.

But I do suggest shadowing for a radiologist or a pathologist if you haven't done so already.

 

[ana]

Your attitudes aren't just dispassionate, they are actually quite negative, thrown in with somewhat twisted logic (you were being altruistic by letting others do the volunteering... I can't believe even you believe that...).

I still think delivery is a problem. However, you are right in that there is a content problem in that there was no content. Essentially, you had nothing to say about yourself or medicine. And no, you will not get past a medical school interview in that state.

If you have nothing to say in an interview, how was it you were able to write a personal statment at all for the amcas? And what was in the personal statement? It seemed to be enough to get you interviews.

 

[ana]

"if you were a chef and could invite any two fictional characters to dinner, who would you chose?"


Well, whom did you choose?

 

[ana]

You've never felt this way? I've done quite a lot of volunteering in college, and it always seems like the organizations I'm working with need absolutely everything except more college and HS volunteers. They all need skilled workers (like actual doctors), they all desperately need money, but they generally have useless volunteers wall to wall. At the extreme example I work in a soup kitchen that feeds about 70 disadvantaged people at a time, and on a given day has 300 volunteers to serve the soup. At the end of the day not a single volunteer offers a donation. Unless you're one of the lucky few that has an EMT cert, you start to feel like all your doing in a volunteer slot is denying someone else the chance to put that volunteer work on their resume, or at best witnessing someone else's misery so you can fix it 10 years down the line when you're actually a doctor.

If you volunteer at a soup kitchen around the holidays, yeah the volunteers will outnumber the homeless. The same goes for medically related volunteer work; there are always tons of premeds and HS students wanting to show what great doctors they would be; but there are other less glamorous, non-medically related worthy organizations that could use help.

Sometimes it helps to be off the beaten path.

 

[nlax30]

You've never felt this way? I've done quite a lot of volunteering in college, and it always seems like the organizations I'm working with need absolutely everything except more college and HS volunteers. They all need skilled workers (like actual doctors), they all desperately need money, but they generally have useless volunteers wall to wall. At the extreme example I work in a soup kitchen that feeds about 70 disadvantaged people at a time, and on a given day has 300 volunteers to serve the soup. At the end of the day not a single volunteer offers a donation. Unless you're one of the lucky few that has an EMT cert, you start to feel like all your doing in a volunteer slot is denying someone else the chance to put that volunteer work on their resume, or at best witnessing someone else's misery so you can fix it 10 years down the line when you're actually a doctor.

I see where you're coming from as I'm also in a smaller college town with a large state university with a seemingly over abundance of willing undergrad volunteers. But, however "unfair", the facts remains that you have got to show some initiative and drive that you do, in fact, want to go to med school. The logic that there are plenty of other willing volunteers may be technically accurate, but is definitely not the attitude that ADCOMS (most at least) are looking for. In my experience that attitude is not entirely healthy for any area of life, especially in deciding upon a long-term career. Do you think you'd truly be happy as a physician? Don't mean to sound cliche, but the last thing I want is to wake up 20 years down the road and hate what I do

Unfortunately, unless you get real lucky, you're going to have to play the "game". What about doing some shadowing and/or volunteering with a pathologist, radiologist or a lab? I agree that it's perfectly fine if you don't care for the patient contact and are drawn towards those two specialties. An adcom is going to see that those are your interests, but then they'll see that you really don't know what all is involved since you don't have much, if any, experience in those areas. I'm sure you could find a pathologist or rads doc in town that'd let you shadow him or her.

Anyway, don't mean to sound too negative in this but I've kind of run into a similar situation with my local state MD school that has an overall mission statement focusing on sending out family medicine docs to rural areas. In the end I won't be going there, but in talking with advisors and current students, they all said that no matter if that's what you want to do or not, you have to tell the school what they want to hear. If you have your heart set on being a neuro surgeon in New York, then either don't apply to that school or don't mention it in the application.

You've got the GPA/MCAT stats, just decide if it's what you really want to do and if so, then apply again. Remember, med schools are a business like anything else and they want students who will stick around, and right now the lack of dedication/caring in your interviews is definitely a turn off.

 

[35m]

Will my chances be much better if I apply to DO schools?

What about doing some shadowing and/or volunteering with a pathologist

My father is a pathologist, so I have years of informal shadowing.

"if you were a chef and could invite any two fictional characters to dinner, who would you chose?"


Well, whom did you choose?

First I chose Odysseus , then after thinking for a long time, I chose Thomas Jefferson 😕 . He corrected my error, and for my second try I chose Odysseus and Superman.

If you have nothing to say in an interview, how was it you were able to write a personal statment at all for the amcas? And what was in the personal statement? It seemed to be enough to get you interviews.

I wrote that I have an aptitude for analytical thinking, that I enjoy analytical thinking, and that I want to apply my aptitude toward something useful.

The above is true. The problem is that I do not find any formal field of knowledge intrinsically interesting. Medicine, Biology, Engineering, Physics, Mathematics, etc. interest me only in the utility which they provide.

I really do not care much about my personal happiness. I just want to do that which I should do. I have goals, based upon my own philosophic ideas, and I wish only to accomplish these goals. I have no logical reason to value any emotional state, so long as my mental state does not deteriorate to a point at which I can no longer perform well.

Whatever I end up doing, it is unlikely that I will be passionate about it. Many years have passed since I was last passionate about any activity.

 

[1Path]

Your attitudes aren't just dispassionate, they are actually quite negative, thrown in with somewhat twisted logic (you were being altruistic by letting others do the volunteering... I can't believe even you believe that...).

Ana, I think you're being extremely nice here which I guess is a good thing.😕 Those interview reponses reek of a person that simply needs to add a few more birthdays and THEN reapply.👍

 

[silas2642]

gpa: 3.85
mcat: 35m

I graduated after two years rather than four, but with no ECs other than 24 hours of shadowing. I applied after graduating, rather than during my junior year (semester).

I submitted AMCAS with only the shadowing for ECs, which hurt me a bit, but I got three interviews. By the time of my interviews, I was doing some volunteer work, working 12 hours per week as an emergency room orderly, and had been certified as EMT Basic.

I feel like I have wasted a year, and that I am not making much progress; I do not want to waste a second year.

My weakness is that I lack initiative and passion. Once I start anything, I finish it succesfullly, but I am not good at starting new things or showing passion toward anything. I was planning on doing more with this past year, but I did not land any full time jobs. I spent a lot of time sitting around waiting for something to happen.

I did not even make an alternate list.

I have been told that my interview performance was lacking. I could improve my skills, but I feel like doing so would be dishonest. If the idea is for them to get to know me, why cant I just be myself? The problem is, the true me is not what they want; I am a dispassionate person, skilled at analytical thinking, who wants to work hard and be well compensated for doing something useful.

I have a friend with cystic fibrosis. I could lie and say that I want to go into medicine because I feel so bad that he is diseased and that this motivates me to want to help all diseased people. I do not think like that. He is just one of many, and my awareness of the many is more significant than my personal interaction with any individuals.

Should I try again? Can a 100% dispassionate person get into medical school with the honest approach?

I am interested in pathology and radiology, but not enough to waste 5 years trying to get accepted

Well, I guess I'm kind of confused as to why you want to go into medicine. If I were you I would be kind of concerned being this apathetic this early in the game because medicine is such a long, hard road-- those who start out passionate for helping others can often end up burnt out at times, so I can't imagine what it would be like for someone who doesn't even really care about the field or about the people in the first place. I think that that may be one of the adcoms concerns when interviewing you-- your lack of commitment and your lack of passion. They're worried about burnout and whether or not you're going to be able to successfully finish what you've started and still be happy in the end.

The other question I have is how old you are-- are you 19 or 20? If so, why the hurry to matriculate to med school? Why don't you take some time off and travel, find what you love, volunteer in a third world country where they do need help and don't have an excess of volunteers and see if you really like helping people-- give yourself a chance to see what turns you on. I thought that I wanted to go into medicine when I entered college, and it turned out that I did, but I didn't matriculate until I was 25-- I had to go through a stage of growing up and trying different things to find out that this was what I really wanted. It turned out that this was the best thing I could have ever done for myself.

 

[35m]

I am almost 22 years old, and I feel like I do not have enough years left to waste any. [I wish that I could live forever.]

I think that I come across as less enthusiastic than I really am. If I rank all my options equally, I can say that I love all of the options, or that I hate all of the options, but it really does not matter because it is relative value rather than absolute which determines all action. I generally come across as negative; I do not have much of anything good to say about anything, yet I work hard and I am responsible.

I had an economic professor (old man) who lectured that volunteering was counterproductive (the world would be better off if the volunteering time was spent making money in the free market) and that all volunteers volunteered for selfish reasons (to look good for applications and socially). While I do not totally accept his argument, I do not think that it fair to say that my views indicate a lack of maturity.

(I am somewhat confused by the concept of diversity. They say that they want a diverse group with different viewpoints, yet at the moment they mandate that our viewpoints lie in a specific quadrant. My economics professor (that I mentioned above) was a good person, worked hard, cared for his family, etc, but he would have to lie about his opinions if he wished to get accepted into medical school.)

I still think that the textbook premed attitude makes no sense. The altruist does not volunteer because it feels good (he volunteers because he wants others to be helped). True altruistic motives are frowned upon (such as going into medicine to please one's parents [this is altruistic, going into medicine because one enjoys medicine is selfish])

To be honest, I would have volunteered if I had realized how important it is for admissions. The problem is, I had acquired the impression that it was not that important from some of the doctors of the previous generations who have never done an hour of volunteering in their lives (are they bad doctors?).

Well, next year I will have an answer if asked to describe a time when I faced adversity, as I have now failed at something.

I will most likely apply again.

I will find it difficult to sell myself in interviews while remaining honest about my thoughts. I guess that I need to learn to not "over analyze" things and to just accept those things which are generally considered good as good. When asked about my volunteering at the soup kitchen, I will say something other than "I question whether the people would be better off if forced to feed themselves, and I question the benevolence of the organization, which trades food for adherence to Christianity".

Sorry for the long post. I suppose that it accomplishes nothing other than the venting of my frustration.

 

[JDWflash44]

My $.02 from a current medical student. You have good numbers and seem smart, but news flash, each of these schools has thousands of applicants that meet these requirements. I know this is debatable, but I think there isnt as much significance of the MCAT on performance in med school than pre-meds think. Its much more about how much you bust you a$$(people with MCATS in the 20's get 99s on USMLEs), so if you come off as lackadaisical and without a real drive for medicine then you are less likely to succeed in med school. If you dont show some some sort of passion(it doesnt have to be a burning dying passion) for medicine and maturity then you're probably not going to get in.

"I generally come across as negative; I do not have much of anything good to say about anything, yet I work hard and I am responsible."

To be honest, I wouldnt want to have a classmate like that (I think the learning environment is important in med school) and I wouldnt want to have a colleague like that when I'm working in the hospital(I think neither would the people on the admissions committee). Nobody wants someone that is always negative around. Besides, if you lack inititive then med school might be hard for you. Medical school is a grind, sometimes its even hard to see the light at the end of the long tunnel, if you want to make money there are a lot of easier ways to do it without going 8-10 years working ungodly hours and going into debt/making peanuts like we do. Get an MBA or something or get a PhD and an MBA.

Its hard to believe that you gave answers like that at your interviews. Whether you want to be a pathologist or radiologist is irrelevant to getting into med school. You still have to do well in the clinical years of med school. To be a radiologist you definetly have to do well. Remember that these interviewers may be your attendings in your 3rd and 4h year and they in no way want to be dealing with a student that has no interest in seeing patients, or seemingly even learning how to see patients.

I also would advise not to reapply to the schools that said you interviewed very poorly. You probably already ruined your chances of getting into those schools, and probably wont be granted another interview unless you substantially show change in your app/PS.

Most importantly: If you dont have a good answer as to why you want to go into medicine, then go out and get some real life experiences that give you an answer to that question. If you never find one, then find a profession that you can answer the question "why do I want to do this for the rest of my life?"

Your answer doesnt have to be ground breaking or a tear jerker or anything. My answer to "why medicine?"
-I was very good at sciences, and enjoyed them
-had done research, really enjoyed the intellectual stimulation,and liked asking and answering questions
-I was very social and really liked working with people and enjoyed the clinical experiences that I had

Nothing ground breaking, I was just honest.

And dont worry about being too old or "wasting a year" or two... It'll be worth it if you find out what you really want to do with the rest of your life.

Not trying to be harsh or anything, just trying to help.

 

[Knockout Mouse]

It sounds to me like you honestly don't want to be a doctor.

You are an analytic type who likes to solve problems, cool.
Then consider a PhD.

If nothing you saw in the ER, shadowing, or EMT training turned you on then its a clear sign that the clinical aspect of medicine is just not for you.

Have you had any research experience? Maybe try that for a while and think about things some more.

Definitely DO NOT fake being excited about medicine if you are not.

 

[silas2642]

I am almost 22 years old, and I feel like I do not have enough years left to waste any. [I wish that I could live forever.]

I think that I come across as less enthusiastic than I really am. If I rank all my options equally, I can say that I love all of the options, or that I hate all of the options, but it really does not matter because it is relative value rather than absolute which determines all action. I generally come across as negative; I do not have much of anything good to say about anything, yet I work hard and I am responsible.

I had an economic professor (old man) who lectured that volunteering was counterproductive (the world would be better off if the volunteering time was spent making money in the free market) and that all volunteers volunteered for selfish reasons (to look good for applications and socially). While I do not totally accept his argument, I do not think that it fair to say that my views indicate a lack of maturity.

(I am somewhat confused by the concept of diversity. They say that they want a diverse group with different viewpoints, yet at the moment they mandate that our viewpoints lie in a specific quadrant. My economics professor (that I mentioned above) was a good person, worked hard, cared for his family, etc, but he would have to lie about his opinions if he wished to get accepted into medical school.)

I still think that the textbook premed attitude makes no sense. The altruist does not volunteer because it feels good (he volunteers because he wants others to be helped). True altruistic motives are frowned upon (such as going into medicine to please one's parents [this is altruistic, going into medicine because one enjoys medicine is selfish])

To be honest, I would have volunteered if I had realized how important it is for admissions. The problem is, I had acquired the impression that it was not that important from some of the doctors of the previous generations who have never done an hour of volunteering in their lives (are they bad doctors?).

Well, next year I will have an answer if asked to describe a time when I faced adversity, as I have now failed at something.

I will most likely apply again.

I will find it difficult to sell myself in interviews while remaining honest about my thoughts. I guess that I need to learn to not "over analyze" things and to just accept those things which are generally considered good as good. When asked about my volunteering at the soup kitchen, I will say something other than "I question whether the people would be better off if forced to feed themselves, and I question the benevolence of the organization, which trades food for adherence to Christianity".

Sorry for the long post. I suppose that it accomplishes nothing other than the venting of my frustration.

Okay, your economic's professor was one cold fish who might have been missing a heart. I think that you're kind of missing the point here. Volunteering isn't a requirement in order to get into medical school, but some sort of human contact is; patient contact is probably preferrred. When you see other people, people that you are able to help and make their lives better, you're supposed to feel something, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be cheesey or anything, but that's just the way it is. When you're by the bedside of someone who is sick, or when you're playing with a child, or tutoring a teenager, you're supposed to have this feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction, like you're making a difference, and like you want to do more of it. At least, this is how it is for a lot of us. I think this is what you're supposed to get out of the volunteering experiences-- whether or not you like helping people, and whether or not you want to spend the rest of your life helping people. It's not just to "buff" your resume or to "play the game."

No offense, but you just seem to lack emotion and passion in your postings and this is probably coming across in your interviews. Do you like helping sick people? Is that what you want to do for the rest of your life, because that's pretty much what being a physician entails. I know you said that you want to go into pathology or radiology but radiology is pretty competitive-- what if you don't match into rads? What would happen if you didn't do well on boards or during your third year and couldn't match into path? Also, I'm not sure how adcoms feel about accepting applicants who have their minds made up about specialties.

Have you considered any other fields that might suit your personality better? What about economics, engineering, research?

 

[Top Gun]

Dude, seriously, if you don't have a real passion for medicine, then why are you even bothering applying? Med school is a tough road. First, you have two years of basic sciences classes where you will be spending hours in lectures, labs and studying. Then you have to take a very difficult exam, known as the USMLE, which tests all the knowledge you learned in your first two years of med school, and you have to do really well on it to even be considered for something like rads, which you mentioned you're interested in. Then there's two years of clinicals, where you will be at the hospital many times for at least 10 hours a day, and will work with residents and attendings, many of whom will make it their mission in life to s**t upon you because you're just a med student. Oh, and sometimes you might even have to do 24-hour call, in which you won't even be able to go home until noon the next day. Some call nights you might even be lucky to get so much as half an hour of sleep. Oh, and med school is just the beginning. Once you finish, you have to do internship and residency, in which the demands upon you multiply.
I happen to love medicine. That's why I was able to get through the whole process of med school, in spite of everything I mentioned above. Seriously, you need to ask yourself whether it is worth putting yourself through all this if you don't even have a real interest in medicine.

 

[blues91776]

op, you just seem to be unhappy. Don't take it the wrong way, I have quite a few close friends that are simply unhappy with life for various reasons, so I was able to sense it in your writing.

I was really unhappy with life up until I switched my career plans from philosophy/political science major to medicine during my sophomore and junior year. To be honest, my childhood and teen years up to that point was very depressing and I've had my moments of suicidal thoughts. I'm not trying to say that I've "figured out" who you are but I'm just trying to give some context to what I'm saying. My majors before going pre-med was under the goal of trying to find something to do where I can really help other people, "utility" as you mentioned. I ultimately was able to find a path with that same goal in medicine. How? It's really hard to say but I'm really passionate now, about becoming a doctor . My life style has also changed from everyday being a sluggish drag to being excited about being productive and learning more about medicine. Again, I'm not trying to correlate myself with you.

The point is that, if anyone told me that I can actually find something to be passionate about in life before my pre-med years, I would listen but wouldnt really acknowledge it. I had to figure out my path on my own, for better or worse. I've tried to tell my few close friends who are unhappy that I've been there more than they can know and that they can move on from it if they really want to. Of course they kept an open ear but it goes out the other, but I understand why and I'm just trying to accept them for who they are at the present. They are really set on what they think they know and how they think, just like I was. You really seem to be like that in this sense. You seem to be really smart in the sense that you can really think on your own, ask questions of the deep nature, but also pretty stubborn about what you think and how you think (i.e. you're 22 and you think you can't waste any more time "idling" away while the majority of premeds and doctors will tell you 22 is like an infant).

My best advice is like most already given on this thread, take your time and figure out what you want in life. It doesn't necessarily have to conflict with your ideas of what you SHOULD do in life but try not to be so set with what you know and your decisions...things change all the time and so do people.

If I totally missed the target...oh well, nice talk!

 

[cleothecat]

re

You might want to consider his advice: you might get stuck being a family doctor despite your intelligence, hard work, and best intentions.

So what is wrong with being a family doc and connecting with and treating real people and their families?
It trakes intelligence, motivation and compassion to be a family doc and to take care of real people, not just diseases.

Re "should he/she apply". If there is no enthusiasm, compassion, or motivation then do not take the spot of someone who will be a "real physician".

😡

 

[HailMary]

Maybe these particular statments are cliched, but you have to admit that medical schools seem to want a bizzare amount of fanaticim from their students compared to other competitive, difficult professions. Engineering education can be as arduous, challenging, and exhausting as medicine, but people interviewing for engineering programs don't seem to expect that their students couldn't possibly picure themselves doing any other job. In comparrison I've been advised NEVER to admit that I've considered a non-medical career. That I should make it clear that I'd be willing to stay a premed until I'm 85, or to work as a part time LPN for $15,000/year, so long as I never have to give up on my dream of dealing with bedpans, vomit, and impacted bowels. Is what I've been told wrong? Could I admit to an interviewer that while medicine is by far my top choice, I could picture myself doing engineering, or the military, or research chemistry as well? Could my personal stament really not mention any other motivation other than 'I tried it and liked it'? I'd appreciate hearing this if it's true, because like the OP I also feel sort of guilty.

Anyway, sorry for the slight threadjack. To reitterate to the OP, I think your stats are just to good to quit and not reapply.

If you think about it from the med school's perspective, they have a financial interest in getting students who aren't going to drop out. For example, at a school with $60K/year tuition, if someone drops out after second year that school is losing $120K (assuming they don't take transfers, which many don't). If 10 students drop, it's $1.2 million. Med schools want you to know what you're getting into so that you don't take your $$ and leave in the middle of it.

They also have so many more applicants than slots that uninterested students are easy to weed out. Imagine if you had 10 hot members of your preferred gender who were dying to go out with you, and one who only kinda wanted to. Who would be the first to cross off the list?

IMHO, if you're not 100% sure you want to be a doctor, don't put yourself through it. There are plenty of careers where you can be intellectually challenged and make a lot more $$ with a lot less schooling.

 

[Krisss17]

I am almost 22 years old, and I feel like I do not have enough years left to waste any. [I wish that I could live forever.]

Come on...22? you're a baby....if you look on the nontrad thread, you'll find applicants twice your age or more who are working to pursue this goal.

Also, you say that you want to specialize in either radiology or pathology, but in a rural area...somehow, this just doesn't jive...while rural areas need more family practitioners for primary care...the population of rural areas don't really support independent radiology or lab practices. In a rural hospital, you are also going to find more deficits in equipment which for both of this specialties can be a major problem.

I really suggest that you do some career research and find a career that fits more with your personality.