Should I apply out of a guaranteed acceptance at SLU SOM?

[medkid63108]

Hello SDN,

My Stats:
-Undergrad at Saint Louis University (SLU)
-GPA: 3.97 -- Math/Science around the same
-MCAT 2015- 90-100% still only have preliminary score. Actual score comes on June 16th
-Medical scholar with a guaranteed acceptance to SLU SOM if I exclusively apply to SLU in my primary application
-EMT certified
-Tons of Service. Now, in a Service Leadership position in a student organization.
-Research experience in public health and bench research in basic science (still working on a publication)
-100 hours of shadowing

With these stats, should I apply out of a guaranteed acceptance at SLU SOM? If I apply out I lose my guarantee but I get the opportunity to go to a Top 25 medical school. What are my chances of getting into a Top 25 school?

Also, what hypothetical MCAT 2015 score should I look for in order to apply out? Again my preliminary score range is 90-100%.

Thanks! I look forward to your input.

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[WedgeDawg]

Most of the top 25 schools have median MCATs of 36 (range: 35-38), which corresponds to about a 520. If you score 520+ (balanced) on the new MCAT, you certainly have a shot at top 25 schools. However, you look like another average applicant for top schools. If you apply broadly, will you get into an MD school somewhere? Almost certainly. Will you get into a top 25 school? It's possible, but you're competing with thousands of similar or more competitive applicants for a limited number of spots without too much that truly sets you apart. That's not saying it can't be done, just that there's no guarantee. The "safe" option here would be to run with your guaranteed acceptance, but you wouldn't be risking too much (other than a lot of time, effort, money, and headaches) by applying, given the general strength of your numbers and experiences.

 

[SpicyFalafel]

OP, you are already got an acceptance under your belt. In real world, you are going to be a doctor regardless of where you got your MD degree.
BTW, congrats!

 

[Sterling Archer]

You should take into consideration what you want out of your medical education. If you're very interested in research, it may be worth a gambling your 'guaranteed' acceptance at SLUSOM for schools which have better research resources. If you're more interested in medical practice then take what you have and go to SLUSOM.

 

[Lamel]

Why do you want to go to a top 25? If you're gunning for academia or research or a super competitive specialty, it could help to go to a prestigious school. If you're interested in primary care or a relatively non-competitive specialty, maybe its not so worth it to risk your guaranteed acceptance.


Overall chances are you can get in somewhere else, so if you have compelling reasons not to go to SLU then go for it. But SLU is a great school either way.

 

[Flashfan]

Hmm, save thousands of dollars in application costs and travel, enjoy your senior year to go to a school that seems to genuinely care about its students or keep jumping through all the hoops for the uncertainty of the process.

 

[resiroth]

Apply to SLU for now. Wait on the MCAT. If it's top 1% apply out imo. 90-100% sounds good until you realize that top schools often have medians around 2-3%

Also top 25 is undergrad. Top 20 is medical school.

 

[Shams al Deen]

Apply to SLU for now. Wait on the MCAT. If it's top 1% apply out imo. 90-100% sounds good until you realize that top schools often have medians around 2-3%

Also top 25 is undergrad. Top 20 is medical school.

Yeah because Mt. Sinai is in a totally different category than Baylor lol. This isn't law school where the top 14 have been the same top 14 for decades and are clearly superior to schools 15-30. The lines are a lot more blurred with medical schools.

I agree with your advice though. I'd wait to see if OP has an elite MCAT. If it's elite, then apply all over. If it's (the equivalent of) ~33-34 just keep SLU.

 

[resiroth]

Yeah because Mt. Sinai is in a totally different category than Baylor lol. This isn't law school where the top 14 have been the same top 14 for decades and are clearly superior to schools 15-30. The lines are a lot more blurred with medical schools.

I agree with your advice though. I'd wait to see if OP has an elite MCAT. If it's elite, then apply all over. If it's (the equivalent of) ~33-34 just keep SLU.

It's not a strict cutoff, but there is a reason it's top 5, top 10 and top 20, and not top 15 (10-15 is around same as 15-20) or top 25.

Ex. UCLA's numerical score is 72 (highest in 10-15). Pittsburgh is 70 (highest in 15-20). Not much difference. Pittsburgh is 70 (highest in 15-20) and Baylor is 63 (highest in 20-25)...that's a difference.

 

[allantois]

It's not a strict cutoff, but there is a reason it's top 5, top 10 and top 20, and not top 15 (10-15 is around same as 15-20) or top 25.

Ex. UCLA's numerical score is 72 (highest in 10-15). Pittsburgh is 70 (highest in 15-20). Not much difference. Pittsburgh is 70 (highest in 15-20) and Baylor is 63 (highest in 20-25)...that's a difference.

And I'm sure all of those schools sent students into most competitive specialties/residencies. As has been pointed out, it's not like law school where if you don't attend a top 5, you won't get where you need to get.

 

[resiroth]

And I'm sure all of those schools sent students into most competitive specialties/residencies. As has been pointed out, it's not like law school, where if you don't attend a top 5, you won't get where you need to get.

That is certainly the case! Thankfully. But there is a basis for top 20 as opposed to top 25/30 is my point.

Honestly the most significant divides in my experience were top 5 (student EC involvement was insane) top 20 (funding was still amazing/still very smart students/ambitious) ranked at all (good medical schools, clearly know what they're doing, have some research, would get a good education etc.) and unranked which at least in my experience were...less good. But hey an MD is an MD!

Also: for academic medicine I would argue that being from a top 5/10/20 is a pretty important thing to shoot for. Ideally with minimal debt because your salary will be terrible.

 

[Goro]

Do I have to crawl through the Internet to smack you upside the head?????

Hello SDN,

My Stats:
-Undergrad at Saint Louis University (SLU)
-GPA: 3.97 -- Math/Science around the same
-MCAT 2015- 90-100% still only have preliminary score. Actual score comes on June 16th
-Medical scholar with a guaranteed acceptance to SLU SOM if I exclusively apply to SLU in my primary application
-EMT certified
-Tons of Service. Now, in a Service Leadership position in a student organization.
-Research experience in public health and bench research in basic science (still working on a publication)
-100 hours of shadowing

With these stats, should I apply out of a guaranteed acceptance at SLU SOM? If I apply out I lose my guarantee but I get the opportunity to go to a Top 25 medical school. What are my chances of getting into a Top 25 school?

Also, what hypothetical MCAT 2015 score should I look for in order to apply out? Again my preliminary score range is 90-100%.

Thanks! I look forward to your input.

 

[Shams al Deen]

It's not a strict cutoff, but there is a reason it's top 5, top 10 and top 20, and not top 15 (10-15 is around same as 15-20) or top 25.

Ex. UCLA's numerical score is 72 (highest in 10-15). Pittsburgh is 70 (highest in 15-20). Not much difference. Pittsburgh is 70 (highest in 15-20) and Baylor is 63 (highest in 20-25)...that's a difference.

I think you're putting a bit too much stock into the numerical scores that USNews give. I mean if you really want to go by those scores then there is a huge drop off from Harvard to whoever is number 2 in any given year. Like the drop off between 1 and 2 is the same (using those USNews scores) as the drop off between 10 and top 25.

Also the 72 vs 70 comparison is really between the 13th and 16th highest ranked school. The scores are more similar because they aren't really separated by 5 schools.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Stay with SLU unless you absolutely hate saint Louis.

 

[On Eagle's Wings]

A bird-in-hand is worth much more than two Top 20 birds in a bush🙂

 

[ski89]

@medkid63108

I totally understand the allure of possibly getting into a prestigious school. But what you have yet to experience is the agonizing, heart wrenching, costly, time consuming, stressful, and anxiety inducing process that is the med school application year. You have the opportunity to skip it all!! And SLU is a great school that will give you ample opportunity to pursue any medical field. I understand that it's tempting to shoot for the stars but this is really a no brainer IMO.

Take the acceptance and go ENJOY the next year! Hell, add up all the money you would spend applying to schools and going on interviews and go to Europe for a month!

 

[Glandzburg]

That is certainly the case! Thankfully. But there is a basis for top 20 as opposed to top 25/30 is my point.

Honestly the most significant divides in my experience were top 5 (student EC involvement was insane) top 20 (funding was still amazing/still very smart students/ambitious) ranked at all (good medical schools, clearly know what they're doing, have some research, would get a good education etc.) and unranked which at least in my experience were...less good. But hey an MD is an MD!

Also: for academic medicine I would argue that being from a top 5/10/20 is a pretty important thing to shoot for. Ideally with minimal debt because your salary will be terrible.

Only on SDN will people argue about top 20 vs 25. The neuroticism is ridiculous. There's no difference.

 

[northernlights15]

Go to SLU. The anxiety of uncertainty is just not worth it to me! At the end of the day, you'll be a physician and that is truly all that matters.

 

[PantherPride]

Apply to SLU for now. Wait on the MCAT. If it's top 1% apply out imo. 90-100% sounds good until you realize that top schools often have medians around 2-3%

I agree with this, it depends on your MCAT. If your MCAT is really high (97% and greater), I'd say shoot for the stars and see what happens, as long as the rest of your application is in line. If its in the 90-95%, I'd consider just sticking with SLU.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Hello SDN,

My Stats:
-Undergrad at Saint Louis University (SLU)
-GPA: 3.97 -- Math/Science around the same
-MCAT 2015- 90-100% still only have preliminary score. Actual score comes on June 16th
-Medical scholar with a guaranteed acceptance to SLU SOM if I exclusively apply to SLU in my primary application
-EMT certified
-Tons of Service. Now, in a Service Leadership position in a student organization.
-Research experience in public health and bench research in basic science (still working on a publication)
-100 hours of shadowing

With these stats, should I apply out of a guaranteed acceptance at SLU SOM? If I apply out I lose my guarantee but I get the opportunity to go to a Top 25 medical school. What are my chances of getting into a Top 25 school?

Also, what hypothetical MCAT 2015 score should I look for in order to apply out? Again my preliminary score range is 90-100%.

Thanks! I look forward to your input.

 

[mimelim]

To offer a little different perspective... This all comes down to your MCAT. You have a strong application as of right now. Assuming you have a decent MCAT (33+) I can't offer you any guarantees, but SLUSOM is going to recruit you hard if you choose to apply elsewhere. Your likelyhood of getting in as a med scholar + strong stats + strong app is damn near as close to a guarantee as there is in this process. The lower your MCAT is, the more gambling this is, but I can honestly see anything higher than a 33 equivalent being reasonable to apply elsewhere.

Also keep in mind that SLUSOM is one of the more expensive private schools out there and having competing offers from other schools can go a long way toward reducing that burden. You will have a reasonable shot at some of the top 20 schools with a strong MCAT and lose very little in my mind by giving up your 'guarantee'.

 

[resiroth]

I think you're putting a bit too much stock into the numerical scores that USNews give. I mean if you really want to go by those scores then there is a huge drop off from Harvard to whoever is number 2 in any given year. Like the drop off between 1 and 2 is the same (using those USNews scores) as the drop off between 10 and top 25.

Also the 72 vs 70 comparison is really between the 13th and 16th highest ranked school. The scores are more similar because they aren't really separated by 5 schools.

ok but "#10" is 74. Typically #11 would be probably ~73. Still, even with #10 it's not nearly as large of a gap.

And yeah, Harvard has crazy high ratings because Harvard sort of games the system a bit, but even with just mass gen they'd be #1. In terms of research output I'd say there is a significant difference from Harvard and the runner up. These aren't rankings for the best medical school education, they're rankings for research (and prestige). It doesn't mean you should go to Harvard. A lot of people shouldn't. But if someone asks you what is the most prestigious medical school and you say something other than Harvard you're flat out misleading them. If they ask what the "best" medical school is that's up for debate.

People recommending SLUSOM over trying with the general app cycle don't realize that if you can leverage offers as @mimelim says you can easily save 50-200k, which with interest becomes 75-300k. It's not trivial by any means.

Furthermore I'd be shocked if OP with a 36 MCAT doesn't end up somewhere better than SLU, or alternatively with a scholarship at SLU. SLU has no incentive to give him scholarships if there is no risk of him going elsewhere.

 

[Paperbackwriter1356]

So I was in your situation last season. I was in the guaranteed program at Mercer, and had to apply early decision there to matriculate or give up my spot.

I gave up my spot and now I'm really happy with what happened afterwards.

Stats:
4.0 gpa
36 mcat (97 percentile)
Strong ECs and involvement
Excellent references
Volunteering and shadowing hours

I interviewed at Harvard, UVA, emory, nyu, case western, MCG, wake forest, washU. I dropped my mercer reg decision interview. I have a full tuition scholarship to go to school now which was a lot better than $55K tuition at my guaranteed school.

I took a chance because I was confident in my application and I really wanted a new environment. Though I can't tell you what to do, I hope this helps! I had a lot of people tell me to take my guaranteed spot but in the end, I did what makes me happy.

Good luck!

 

[GrapesofRath]

So I was in your situation last season. I was in the guaranteed program at Mercer, and had to apply early decision there to matriculate or give up my spot.

I gave up my spot and now I'm really happy with what happened afterwards.

Stats:
4.0 gpa
36 mcat (97 percentile)
Strong ECs and involvement
Excellent references
Volunteering and shadowing hours

I interviewed at Harvard, UVA, emory, nyu, case western, MCG, wake forest, washU. I dropped my mercer reg decision interview. I have a full tuition scholarship to go to school now which was a lot better than $55K tuition at my guaranteed school.

I took a chance because I was confident in my application and I really wanted a new environment. Though I can't tell you what to do, I hope this helps! I had a lot of people tell me to take my guaranteed spot but in the end, I did what makes me happy.

Good luck!

There aren't much in the way of valid arguments for turning down a guaranteed acceptance to medical school. Even for the research argument; unless you are absolutely set on dedicating a career to research(and my guess is you aren't like the large majority of MD's) by and large you'd still be a fool for turning down a guaranteed acceptance.

Now, the scholarship argument..... now that CAN be a valid argument for turning down Saint Louis if they aren't offering you money, particularly if you don't consider your financial situation to be ideal as you would like. If you really are in a bit of a financial bind or are worried about the cost of Saint Louis I would wait until your MCAT score percentiles comes out. 90th-100th percentile for what you are looking for; scholarships in this situation-- isn't specifying much. A 3.97 with a 33 MCAT(90th percentile) and I wouldn't go through the hassle and burden of applying to medical school and taking the risk of losing your spot, unless it really calls for it financially. Now, a 4.0/38(99th percentile)? I think there is a legitimate enough chance of getting a scholarship/not having to pay significant money at a school that takes you, that it would be worth considering taking depending on finances.

I know a number of people with 3.95+GPA/35+MCATs who got scholarships and paid little or nothing for medical schools. I even know people with those stats who didn't have to pay much for top schools. Your EC's are on the generic side but if that publication comes out I think there might be enough where you have a valid chance of getting a good scholarship at another school. You have to make your decision for yourself(like I said before I wouldn't turn down this acceptance unless there is real reason to) but it is food for thought.

 

[Wordead]

Cant you just take the MCAT and then decide? Or is there a timeline thing I'm missing here?

 

[unnumzaan]

Cant you just take the MCAT and then decide? Or is there a timeline thing I'm missing here?

OP's actual MCAT score is released on June 16th, which might be a tad late for primary submission, especially if documents aren't all in yet.

If that score ends up being 95th+ percentile and you don't absolutely love St. Louis/SLU, I would go ahead and apply. You are almost guaranteed to get in anyway, and there are significant financial incentives to consider. People say that the process is expensive and stressful, but I think that can really vary from individual to individual. If you apply smart and maintain a good mindset, especially with a strong app that should yield success relatively early in the cycle, it really isn't that bad. Flying around the country to interview is tiring and expensive, but can also be a lot of fun. That's what I would do in your case.