Should I gun for chief resident spot? Is it worth it for fellowships?

[Blitz2006]

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Now I know in the world of internal medicine, being chief boosts your app a lot for fellowships.

What about for us? I am interested in doing Neuropsych + CL fellowships. Will being chief/putting it on my CV help with my fellowship applications (to do fellowship at places like MGH, Hopkins, Columbia)?

Or does it not really matter.

Thanks,

 

[splik]

I think it depends on the fellowship. you basically need a pulse to do a CL fellowship even at good programs so im not sure it makes much difference. for forensics it definitely makes a difference, though i'm not sure how much. the only reason i took on a chief position was because i am applying for forensics and it was useful. if you were interested in neuropsych you would be better off using your 4th year to do some neuropsych research.

 

[Blitz2006]

You say you need a pulse for CL fellowship.

So here is stupid question time from me, and some food for thought.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Results-and-Data-SMS-2015.pdf

according to this table, on page 10 (Table 2). 56% of CL fellows are made up of US Graduates. This percentage is similar to Adult Hem/Onc and Cards (around 55%). Both those fellowships are considered to be 'competitive' IM fellowships.

Now on page 8 (Table 1), there are 24 unfilled CL fellowship programs. So granted, it is easy to match into a CL fellowship, but is it really that easy to match into a 'top' CL fellowship?

Just wondering,

Also, why do you think there are no stats for Forensics/Addiction fellowships?

 

[wolfvgang22]

It doesn't matter. Be chief if you like making schedules. It's not hard to become chief resident if you are a good resident. I had chance to be chief both in general psych and in fellowship, decided against it both times, and don't regret it. Zero impact on the CV.

 

[Blitz2006]

Sounds good. I hate admin work and non-clinical responsibilities. I would only do chief if it helped me attain an academic goal. Thats why I posted this, to see if it helps. If it doesn't, then I definitely will not pursue it.

 

[psychattending]

Rambling comments:

For most specialties in psychiatry there are way more positions than people who want to go into them -- hence the pulseless comment. Thus, even the programs in demand (usually because of location) still struggle to find "good" applicants.

I would say that coming from a stronger residency program would boost your chances of getting into a competitive program (assuming that you did well in your training program) more than being a chief resident. However, given the lack of bodies wanting to do specialty training this is not a requirement.

As others have said IMG status is rarely looked at since the person has to have graduated from an ACGME approved program in order to do an ACGME approved fellowship. Also there is the number issue way more slots than bodies.

 

[VMSmith]

I hate admin work and non-clinical responsibilities.

Don't be a chief.

 

[notdeadyet]

Sounds good. I hate admin work and non-clinical responsibilities. I would only do chief if it helped me attain an academic goal. Thats why I posted this, to see if it helps. If it doesn't, then I definitely will not pursue it.

If you hate admin work and non-clinical work and have a goal of academics, Chief is the least of your worries.

Incidentally, I did a chief year and loved it. But if you're just looking to pad your resume, do your program and fellow residents a solid and turn it down...


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[whopper]

Only go for it if you want to make a difference. If you're not let someone that is willing to make a difference take over the position (or someone willing to work at it more than you). It's about serving others.

 

[Igor4sugry]

Now I know in the world of internal medicine, being chief boosts your app a lot for fellowships.

What about for us? I am interested in doing Neuropsych + CL fellowships. Will being chief/putting it on my CV help with my fellowship applications (to do fellowship at places like MGH, Hopkins, Columbia)?

Or does it not really matter.

Thanks,

No.
Enjoy your 4th year, moonlight, repeat.

I sometimes feel that this drive (that started in middle/high school) to participate in activities to add to the resume here in US is hard to shake for high-achieving people.

 

[Blitz2006]

apps are out for the upcoming year. Any other advice/suggestions.?

Right now I'd rather focus on doing research/publishing than being a chief, for fellowship apps.

 

[Salpingo]

Now I know in the world of internal medicine, being chief boosts your app a lot for fellowships.

What about for us? I am interested in doing Neuropsych + CL fellowships. Will being chief/putting it on my CV help with my fellowship applications (to do fellowship at places like MGH, Hopkins, Columbia)?

Or does it not really matter.

Thanks,

CL at the top programs are a crap shoot, since there are so few spots. If a program has two spots and two of their own residents applying for them, it probably won't matter what's on your CV (although there are always exceptions). So you need a little more than a pulse

If you're really focused on those fields, you're probably better off investing your time doing research or an elective, both for yourself, your CV and to make future connections. If you're interested in administration, education or spreadsheets, chiefdom may be for you.

Tl;dr do what you love, not what you hope others will love to see

 

[WingedOx]

If you're the type of resident who would need to be chief to get into psych fellowships, then you probably aren't the type of resident who should be chief.

Though more seriously, please don't "gun" for chief resident. It won't work out well for you or your co-residents.

 

[Blitz2006]

Ok thanks. This also the case for fellowships like Geri or Addiction? Isn't C&A the most competitive relatively?

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[J ROD]

I want to earn the respect of my fellow residents and faculty and be asked to be the "chief"

 

[mass1]

Ok thanks. This also the case for fellowships like Geri or Addiction? Isn't C&A the most competitive relatively?

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Addiction psychiatry fellowships are not that difficult to obtain. During my addiction psychiatry fellowship interviews, I was not asked about my chief residency. Instead, every interviewer asked me about my addictions research or they asked me to present a case I had managing substance use disorders. Being chief resident can be a great experience in learning more about administrative psychiatry, if that is a career path you are considering. Feel free to PM me for further questions.

 

[thoffen]

Agree with the above. Being chief can be good because it gives you the opportunity to be in middle management. Middle management is not fun. However, you will learn so much about systems and people. Hopefully, you will turn that back inside to give you insight to how you acted as a resident and what qualities really matter in people at all levels of healthcare.

 

[Salpingo]

I want to earn the respect of my fellow residents and faculty and be asked to be the "chief"

I make all those under me refer to me as either Chief, El Jefe (because multiculturalism), or His Immaculate Sphincter (hat tip to splik)

 

[J ROD]

I make all those under me refer to me as either Chief, El Jefe (because multiculturalism), or His Immaculate Sphincter (hat tip to splik)

Funny, you mention that. My FF name is el Jefe.....lol

 

[masterofmonkeys]

I loved/hated being chief. My fiancée just hated me being chief. Like Whopper stated, it's about serving others. Truth is the admin responsibilities don't eat up that much time; It's more a question of do you view yourself as leadership and do you want to do something/change something/spark something or not? I did want to. And I ran up against the immovable object that is bureaucracy. Learning to problem solve around it was a useful endeavor in that I had to go beyond just raging against the machine and find a way to *vomit* work within the system as much as able. I also became aware of just how whiny the modern post-death-of-24h-call intern is.

Chief didn't get mentioned once in my fellowship interviews. Then again, I interviewed regionally, at solid but not spectacular programs. And uhh, even the Big Dogs scrambled in C/A this year so it's irrelevant. Chiefing is getting mentioned by prospective employers though (mostly academic, and mostly where I'd be wearing some sort of administrative and/or teaching hat in addition to attendinging).

Will it help my career? From a marketability standpoint, maybe slightly, as a junior academic attending stepping more rapidly into a leadership role than otherwise, MAYBE. Then again, the pulse phenomenon exists there too. *shrug* either way I liked it enough to do chief fellow this time around..

 

[eli20]

No.
Enjoy your 4th year, moonlight, repeat.

I sometimes feel that this drive (that started in middle/high school) to participate in activities to add to the resume here in US is hard to shake for high-achieving people.

Well when you go through like 3-4 cycles of this crap it's easy to forget what the real world is like, it doesn't help that the environment of academia breeds this kind of thing, and when all your advisors and mentors are essentially academics it's easy to get caught up in all of it.

 

[NickNaylor]

Interestingly, our chiefs are elected by the residents with zero to minimal input by the PD or other faculty. On the one hand, I somewhat like this democratic approach. On the other hand, the democratic approach can perhaps result in folks being chosen in non-meritocratic way. I have no problem at all with our current chiefs, but it isn't difficult for me to imagine people being chosen that have very little business being chief or, on the flip side, people that would likely be very good chiefs not being chosen.

I also think this approach removes the "prestige" - if there is any - of being a chief since, again, it essentially becomes a popularity contest rather than who is the "best" resident. Ideally the residents would vote for people that are good residents and would be good leaders. I'm too cynical to think that people would actually vote for folks using those criteria, though.

 

[Blitz2006]

Appreciate all the awesome responses,

I personally love doing research and teaching med students on the side, but I absolutely LOATHE meetings, admin work, bureaucracy, etc.
And it seems like publishing 2-3 papers/research will outweigh being a chief resident for future job prospects. So I'll think I'll pass on chief.

 

[jamfan90]

being chief sounds like possibly the worst job in the universe. you have to deal with kvetching (yiddish for complaining) non-stop--sounds like an exercise in masochism to me