Should I still apply

[sparklin85]

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I got my step 1 score. I got a 217. I was shocked to see the score. I was wondering if I have a chance of getting by an ophto program. Ever since first year of medicals school, I knew that I wanted to do ophtho. I am doing ok in all my classes. I have done research but no publications yet. I am involved in community projects. Should I start looking for another specialty? I am not sure what other specialty I would like to do. Please help.

 

[JMK2005]

Yes you should still apply, though you need to be smart about it. USMLE is important but not everything.

I recommend taking step 2 eary (July). IF you score well, that shows that you have potential to do well on the OKAPs (inservice) and ultimately be able to pass the board. Board pass rates for graduates is becoming increasingly important on how a program is looked upon.

Get good letters.

Rotate at realistic programs. If you make a good impression and they like you, it helps to overcome the blemish of a 217.

Have backup plans if you don't match, but a 217 shouldn't preclude you from applying.

G'luck.

 

[dantt]

Along this note, at what Step 1 score should you consider taking Step 2 early or late?

 

[nectarine]

Not trying to sound like an ass, but I didn't want to make another thread and was wondering the same thing. 227 here, wondering if I should still apply or focus more on something like anesthesia where i'd have an easier time matching. 1 asoprs abstract and working on a couple more ophtho abstracts/pubs. top 30 school, not sure of my rank. won't be AOA. thanks in advance.

 

[MAYOphtho]

Along this note, at what Step 1 score should you consider taking Step 2 early or late?

There are certainly no set rules/theories on this. I would say:

anything under 220 you DEFINITELY need to take it early

220-230 you should strongly consider it, especially if you're gonna go for a few reach programs

230-240 it's your call, you're probably fine but as people have mentioned...it seems the Step 1 score for new applicants climbs every year

240+ I guess the only times I'd take it early would be (1) if your med school requires it (2) you're SURE you can do as well or better and/or (3) you're an average candidate otherwise and still are aiming for top programs...

remember...as EVERYONE always mentions, this is just ONE aspect of the application...often a screening tool, but certainly not the only thing that matters...if you're asking for one person's opinion, that's it...and it's nothing more than this...others will differ in their opinions, but maybe this gives you a starting point

hope this helps at least a little

 

[jbloggs]

yeah 217 you're still in the game. i scored less than this and had more than 10 interviews. you have to do something to make your application stand out in the next couple months. whether that's really acing step 2 or it's putting yourself in a position to write a few papers. it's hard to create that position in medical school in a short amount of time but it's possible if you can be extremely proactive and for some people this can be easier than acing step 2.

at 227 and having shown some academic potential with abstracts is good. If you can publish papers off these abstracts between now and interviews and increase your step 2 score a little, then you're in a really solid position.

that said there are no easy answers, but gluck

 

[dantt]

Thanks for the reply. Also don't mean to be an ass and hijack this thread either...233. Below the average for matching in 2009 but know nothing about whether those applicants took Step 2 early or how they did.

As you mentioned, Step 1 scores are climbing every year. Average Step 1 scores released a couple days ago was 221 st dev 21 or so.

There are certainly no set rules/theories on this. I would say:

anything under 220 you DEFINITELY need to take it early

220-230 you should strongly consider it, especially if you're gonna go for a few reach programs

230-240 it's your call, you're probably fine but as people have mentioned...it seems the Step 1 score for new applicants climbs every year

240+ I guess the only times I'd take it early would be (1) if your med school requires it (2) you're SURE you can do as well or better and/or (3) you're an average candidate otherwise and still are aiming for top programs...

remember...as EVERYONE always mentions, this is just ONE aspect of the application...often a screening tool, but certainly not the only thing that matters...if you're asking for one person's opinion, that's it...and it's nothing more than this...others will differ in their opinions, but maybe this gives you a starting point

hope this helps at least a little

 

[Iladelphia]

I remember having this very debate last year at this time. I scored a 234 on Step I, so I thought I would have a *relatively* easy time matching considering that my score was above average (at the time...for my year I believe avg. boards went up to 235). Anyway, I didn't take Step II early. If I could do it over again, I would have as I managed to score quite well on it when I took it in January. Hey hindsight is 20/20. Anyway, if you go back and look at some of my previous posts I didn't have the greatest experience last year. I managed to garner enough interviews to match, but there was a time when I was definitely making back-up plans. My point is two-fold. 1. If you don't score above 240, especially when you consider that the avg. board score will likely go up even more, I would highly consider taking so it can be included in your application packet. The competition is fierce folks...you'll learn when you start navigating "the trail." 2. Board scores are definitely not all that matter. I've had a lot of time to think about my application and try to pinpoint whatever weaknesses I might have had in it. I had what turned out to be below avg. Step I scores, I had tons of research but none of it was related to ophtho (settled on my career aspirations to late in the game), a less-then-stellar undergraduate record (I'm sure they were wondering how I even got into medical school!), and I didn't get my final letter of rec. letter in until late september. My performance in medical school was in the top 1/3 @ a school with a fantastic ophto program, I had good letters of rec. once I got them in, and I felt my personal statement was fine. Some of these weaknesses may seem trivial, but they are enough to keep you out against very impressive competition. My point is, DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO MAKE YOUR APPLICATION STRONG. Most people have at least one or two weaknesses in their application (those that don't go to Bascom, Wills, Wilmer, MEEI, etc.)...you need to do everything possible to overcome these weaknesses. I'm sorry, but every poster on this thread has what would be considered weak board scores for ophthalmology. I'm Now...someone will certainly post as a follow-up that they had a 234 board score last year and they managed to match at a top 10 program. They will be the exception...not the norm. In summary my position is: Step I < 240...take Step II unless you're extremely strong otherwise. And...get your application in as early as possible. Seriously. I hope you guys don't get upset at my advice. I'm not trying to be an *ss. The next 6 months are going to be a grind for you. Good luck and I hope you had a better application experience then I did. If you have ANY questions at all throughout this process, please P.M. me. I would be more than happy to share my experiences.

 

[Iladelphia]

I apologize for the poor grammar above...just came off a 24h shift 🙂 But I thought this thread deserved my attention. Seriously....good luck guys/gals. It's definitely an exciting time!

 

[speyeder]

I remember having this very debate last year at this time. I scored a 234 on Step I, so I thought I would have a *relatively* easy time matching considering that my score was above average (at the time...for my year I believe avg. boards went up to 235). Anyway, I didn't take Step II early. If I could do it over again, I would have as I managed to score quite well on it when I took it in January. Hey hindsight is 20/20. Anyway, if you go back and look at some of my previous posts I didn't have the greatest experience last year. I managed to garner enough interviews to match, but there was a time when I was definitely making back-up plans. My point is two-fold. 1. If you don't score above 240, especially when you consider that the avg. board score will likely go up even more, I would highly consider taking so it can be included in your application packet. The competition is fierce folks...you'll learn when you start navigating "the trail." 2. Board scores are definitely not all that matter. I've had a lot of time to think about my application and try to pinpoint whatever weaknesses I might have had in it. I had what turned out to be below avg. Step I scores, I had tons of research but none of it was related to ophtho (settled on my career aspirations to late in the game), a less-then-stellar undergraduate record (I'm sure they were wondering how I even got into medical school!), and I didn't get my final letter of rec. letter in until late september. My performance in medical school was in the top 1/3 @ a school with a fantastic ophto program, I had good letters of rec. once I got them in, and I felt my personal statement was fine. Some of these weaknesses may seem trivial, but they are enough to keep you out against very impressive competition. My point is, DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO MAKE YOUR APPLICATION STRONG. Most people have at least one or two weaknesses in their application (those that don't go to Bascom, Wills, Wilmer, MEEI, etc.)...you need to do everything possible to overcome these weaknesses. I'm sorry, but every poster on this thread has what would be considered weak board scores for ophthalmology. I'm Now...someone will certainly post as a follow-up that they had a 234 board score last year and they managed to match at a top 10 program. They will be the exception...not the norm. In summary my position is: Step I < 240...take Step II unless you're extremely strong otherwise. And...get your application in as early as possible. Seriously. I hope you guys don't get upset at my advice. I'm not trying to be an *ss. The next 6 months are going to be a grind for you. Good luck and I hope you had a better application experience then I did. If you have ANY questions at all throughout this process, please P.M. me. I would be more than happy to share my experiences.

Overall I agree with what you wrote.

1. The competition IS fierce. I can't tell you how many applications I review that have single or double 99 board scores.

2. You should do everything you can to enhance your application or make yourself stand out. As far as whether or not to take Step 2 early, I think it's a judgment call. If I were applying again, I would take Step 2 early if my Step 1 was below average for those who matched the previous year.

3. Everything pretty much has to be aligned to have a good chance of matching. Research is good but ophtho research is better. Decent letters are okay but great letters are better. Late LORs and late applications are a killer, as some programs may have filled their interview spots and never even had a chance to review your application.

Like the poster said above, in many instances there is not a lot separating one applicant from another on paper. Therefore any weaknesses in your application will stand out in a negative way. Do what you can to make up for these deficiencies.

 

[nectarine]

I guess that's what I'm asking - is it a waste to attempt to match with a 227 and should I just start focusing on other fields at this point? It sounds bleak from what you guys are saying.

 

[Iladelphia]

Not what I'm saying at all ~ I would definitely still apply. But for you, it wouldn't be a horrible idea to take Step II CK early. My step I score was only moderately higher than yours and I still applied/matched successfully. And I had some other weaknesses to overcome. Definitely don't let my above post discourage you from pursuing your dream of an ophthalmology residency!

Go for it.

 

[JMK2005]

Agree with about. Still apply.

 

[deyer]

If you don't apply, there is absolutely no way you can match and become an ophthalmologist. If that is what you want to do you should go for it. I'm sure this is the most abused phrase in this type of situation, but average means that half of the people scored below it. I think everyone, or most people, look at their app and think of the 25 reasons they won't match. I think a great LOR and a strong personal statement can make up for some other holes in your app. I think lots of people will disagree with me and say Step 1 is the end all be all, then grades/aoa. I agree that these things are VERY important, but everyone posting so far doesn't have terrible scores, they are just below average and I think you can still put together a solid app. I happened to get some really great feedback about my personal statement and LORs and those are things that I could have gotten with a lot of hard work on rotations and terrible test scores. The bottom line is that after years of taking on residents, most of these PDs know there are a bunch of people at the top of the pile in terms of scores and grades) that are just no fun to be around, terribly boring, or ineffective. They don't all just want the top applicants, they want people who are interesting and fit in to the program, and the only real academic requirement is the ability to learn what they are going to teach you.

So, tips for all applicants:
I would recommend sending out lots of apps and following up with letters that convey your sincere interest in x-program. Try to say something specific about the city, program, department. Why you are interested, if you have any connection to the department or the city.

I think the winning personal statement recipe is one that doesn't waste too much time explaining your passion for ophthalmology. Everyone reading it already knows you like ophthalmology, and guess what - they like it too. So I wouldn't waste words and time explaining that the iris is mesmerizing and the gadgets are technically demanding and all that. Tell them why they want you in their program, and why they want to see your face, hear your voice, and read your name on a daily basis.

If you are below 225 or 230 or so, I'd say take it early, study really hard and crush it. FWIW I studied approximately 1/3-1/2 as much and did 5 pts better on 2. If you are in that gray area in the 230s or even higher, I would say take step 2 sometime around sept/oct. I took mine in early November and my score was available for my last few interviews. This was a good time, because my scores had already been released and only included step 1. That way I had the choice of whether or not to share my step 2 score. I did well and took it with me, but honestly nobody seemed to care much about seeing it.

As for applying to back up stuff. I think ophthalmologist, maybe more than other specialties, are fighting the belief that they are a "lifestyle field." I spoke with a radiology resident who said he didn't think it was a big deal to re-apply to rads after not matching in another field or without much background work in the field (research, extra-cirricular stuff). I don't think this is true in ophthalmology. My understanding is that the re-apply rate to ophtho is piss-poor. I think that if you're applying to ophtho and have anesthesia and radiology back-up apps, that would send up some red flags to the programs that you're looking for a lifestyle more than a career. Maybe I am wrong about this, but I think that eye docs like to see something on your app that shows you are genuinely interested in ophthalmology and have put some time into it. That can be difficult for people who decide late, but I really think this kind of stuff helps.
So, if you do apply to a back up (which I think might be a good idea if you are that worried), I would be somewhat discrete about it. Obviously don't lie about it, but don't announce it and downplay it if it comes up. One thing I have seen done is try to get in good with the other department at your school, talk with the PD and Chair. Let them know you are interested and thinking about applying. Sometimes you can get in app in very late (after your interviews for ophtho, maybe even after you don't match) and if you have this groundwork done you have a leg up.

 

[TMinusZero]

Definitely still apply, but apply to plenty of programs.
I heard from an advisor that the 'cutoff' score for interviews at a # of places is ~220+/-a couple points.
I think the average applicant applies to ~60 programs. If you really want to be an ophthalmologist, apply to as many as you can afford! Good luck 🙂