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Should someone with a 523 MCAT and 0-25th percentile CASPer score apply to schools that require CASPer?
Should someone with a 523 MCAT and 0-25th percentile in CASPer apply to schools that require CASPer?
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You miss all the shots you don’t take.
People with high mcat like yours get accepted to schools with low gpas (below 10th percentile) so why would Casper be any different?
Sure the score is not ideal but schools take a holistic approach!
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This^^^^. The only answer is that there is no answer. CASPer is intentionally a big black box. No one discloses how it is used, or even how it is scored. It seems arbitrary, although there is clearly some undisclosed logic behind the scoring.
Common sense would dictate that schools that require it see some value in it, and that, if they are going to use it at all, it would be to screen out those in the bottom quartile. OTOH, no one knows for sure, and, if there is going to be an exception, someone with a 523 and an otherwise good application would certainly qualify for one.
Before last year, you never would have seen that score, and you would have just applied. Personally, I wouldn't screen myself out based on some arbitrary SJT. Your score sucks, but it's just one element of your application, and it might very well be the least important one. No one knows except the adcoms at the schools in question, and they won't tell.
As @Mr.Blackdoc.5 so astutely pointed out, your result is guaranteed if you don't take your shot. I'll be pissed and disappointed if I get the same score as you, but, I'm applying before I see it (just like in 2019
), so I am walking the walk and applying regardless. I think you should do the same. The good news is that you will still have MANY shots regardless, since so few schools use it, with several dropping it just since last cycle, no doubt due to its dubious value. Many adcoms on SDN absolutely hate it, so there's that! Good luck!!!Was about to ask the same question. Got my score back yesterday morning (0-25 percentile) and was pissed to say the least. Love how you put in so much work for MCAT, GPA, Essays, etc only for Casper to take a giant crap on your application. Unfortunately I don’t have a 523 MCAT, but I guess I’ll apply and hope for the best.
On a side note... I would really like to know what I said in the test that was so bad. I did the practice test and followed most of the advice that you see. I mean I consider myself to be fairly reasonable person and felt like I gave complete and fair answers. I explained how I would want to get as much info as possible and try to get an in depth understanding of both sides of the issue before making a decision. Who knows… guess they think I’m a psychopath. Seems like a good way to take your money and screw people over if you ask me. (Sorry for the rant)
On a side note... I would really like to know what I said in the test that was so bad. I did the practice test and followed most of the advice that you see. I mean I consider myself to be fairly reasonable person and felt like I gave complete and fair answers. I explained how I would want to get as much info as possible and try to get an in depth understanding of both sides of the issue before making a decision. Who knows… guess they think I’m a psychopath. Seems like a good way to take your money and screw people over if you ask me. (Sorry for the rant)
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No one thinks you're a psycho. I'm certain that the problem is that we are pretty much all exposed to the same advice on how to approach the test. As a result, there are probably tiny, subjective differences between the first quartile and the fourth.
No one knows for sure, since this is the first year we are all receiving scores, but the proof will be when people like you receive IIs at schools that use the test. I'm betting you will, and I base this on the fact that some schools have dropped the test since last year, and many well regarded adcoms on SDN view the test with disdain, if not contempt.
This tells me some people at some schools think the test has some value, but that due to its opaque and subjective nature, they probably use it more to validate how they already view an applicant than to derail an otherwise attractive candidate, or elevate an otherwise unattractive one. Just my uninformed speculation. Hopefully, it gives you some comfort.
Unfortunately, we are the guinea pigs. Presently, there is lots of data to inform likelihood of success based on GPA and MCAT. Next cycle, data points will exist for CASPer, and people will have some idea how important the score is. Until then, all we can do is go with the flow and try not to freak out. The good news is that so few schools use it that it's not an all or nothing proposition like GPAs and MCATs that follow us everywhere.
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Casper is a new test and schools will be wrestling with how to factor it in for quite some time. My guess is most programs included it as a hedge in case they aren’t able to hold in person interviews or MMIs this year. Having an excellent score on a well known heavily weighted component like the mcat will outweigh the Casper score. Apply as you otherwise would and let the pieces fall where they may.
I don’t want to come off as rude (says everyone who is about to say something rude) but maybe the test works and it is revealing true flaws in the way applicants think about things. These scenarios are often aimed at making a person lean towards the easy answer but there may be so much more to the story that the person is not seeing. If they struggle to see both sides’ argument, it could represent a lack of reasoning skills, inability to recognize one’s own faults, or lack of life experience.
If you can’t see how you answered questions incorrectly and are not thinking “Dang it! I should have said…” my guess is that you just made a huge mistake in writing (something was deleted or worded in a weird way that allowed for alternate interpretations) or you really need to improve your ability to handle ethical dilemmas and have your beliefs challenged. It just sounds a little questionable to hear someone say “I scored super low. It must be a worthless invalid test…” Don’t get me wrong. I hated the test too. I have no idea how well I did either. My understanding is that it isn’t a “score as high as you can” type of test. It’s more of a “don’t score incredibly low and you’re fine” thing. I’m nobody though so my ideas are probably as worthless as Casper could be.
If you can’t see how you answered questions incorrectly and are not thinking “Dang it! I should have said…” my guess is that you just made a huge mistake in writing (something was deleted or worded in a weird way that allowed for alternate interpretations) or you really need to improve your ability to handle ethical dilemmas and have your beliefs challenged. It just sounds a little questionable to hear someone say “I scored super low. It must be a worthless invalid test…” Don’t get me wrong. I hated the test too. I have no idea how well I did either. My understanding is that it isn’t a “score as high as you can” type of test. It’s more of a “don’t score incredibly low and you’re fine” thing. I’m nobody though so my ideas are probably as worthless as Casper could be.
I don't disagree with you, but just as the MCAT is a test you can study for and get tangible feedback on how to improve, I think that's where this test fails. Yeah, sure, maybe I didn't think about something right, but how am I supposed to know how to think about it differently with no feedback? I've had several encounters in my life where I've had to make decisions with little to nothing to go on and I did what I thought best. Ultimately, those situations worked out. Could they have gone wrong? Of course, but I don't have any feedback to suggest that I'm missing something other than a percentile range. Having no transparency is the issue that I have.
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You're right. It's a BS test that measures BS. THIS is why most schools don't use it, why we don't receive scores other than in broad ranges (and, prior to this year, all candidates didn't even receive that!), and why they don't want to provide transparency, because then we'd be able to easily game it.
It is what it is. The good news is that so few schools use it (and a few have even dropped it in the past year or two) that it won't determine your overall outcome, to the extent that it even does actually negatively impact you at a few schools.
Here is a quote from the CASPer folks themselves:
"Whichever quartile your Casper score is placed, it should not dissuade you from applying to any program. Many programs consider all quartiles and use Casper as an additional piece of information among many metrics to make admissions decisions."
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greys_anatomy
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I honestly think there are gonna be more psychopaths in the 75-100th % than the 0-25th % lmao
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Probably -- we'll see when I get my score!
The simple fact is that anyone running an adcom who needs a written test like this to do what it purports to do (separate empathetic human beings from a-holes) should probably find another job because they absolutely suck at building teams and developing processes to evaluate people, and have no business serving as gatekeepers to a profession.
Keep in mind, this opinion is coming from someone who has had far more than his fair share of clueless, obtuse posts on SDN that totally fail to read the room. I have the objectivity of someone who has not yet received a score, but, if I am placed in anything above the lowest quartile, the test will by definition fail to do what it is supposed to do!
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I completely agree with you that these scenario type tests are not great at evaluating a person’s ability. As medical students, we pride ourselves on figuring out the patterns and habits needed to make us successful. Casper isn’t meant to measure one’s ability to figure out the grading system and give the answers they want to hear. I think they’re more aimed at evaluating a person’s judgement and experiences. I don’t think a person can “train” for a test like that since it’s not really designed for a person to learn to beat it. The best way to prepare is to have some life experiences with people that disagree with you, debate a heated/sensitive topic and defend the side you don’t agree with, immerse yourself in cultures that make you uncomfortable, etc. I think adcoms are hoping to be able to weed out brilliant applicants with limited life experiences and exposure to true ethical dilemmas. I’m not trying to be a jerk. I’m trying to say that some schools want the most intelligent and eager to research students so they value the high MCAT and 1000’s of hour is research. Some want those that fight for social justice so they will accept lower scores. Some want it all. If you were a brilliant mind surrounded by SJW’s fighting a fight that annoys you, you’d hate medical school and vice versa. Trust me. Any school that accepts you is looking for people like you and your classmates will make you feel like you’re at home.
Once the application cycle is over and you’re in, you’ll understand that you ended up exactly where you should be. I had something like 20+ hard immediate rejections but ended up getting several II and a couple A’s before I dropped out of the cycle and chose my school. I realized that the schools rejecting me aren’t looking for students with my experiences, my feelings, my viewpoints, or my goals. The schools that gave me invites do value what I bring and my classmates have similar values similar abilities so I know I ended up in the right place. Rejections hurt. 20+ rejections REALLY knock you down but it all makes sense once it’s over. Good luck to you! I’m sure you’ll do great.
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Of course there are. Here is my bottom line - ALL the adcoms advise not to apply anywhere without knowing your MCAT score. Yet nobody, not even the CASPer people themselves, advise you do the same with this test! So, how important can it really be?
I understand it's a really big deal in Canada, but, not so much in the US. I worry about everything and I'm not worried about this. If my score sucks and I don't receive IIs at any schools that require it, it will be what it will be. I have no doubt I'll also not be receiving IIs from plenty of schools that don't use it.
Thank you, I hope you are kicking ass in school!
That's the same logic I've come to after pondering it for most of the day. Best of luck to you this cycle!
I agree with you strongly. People are complaining that because they used a strategy from some random people on reddit (who didn’t even know their scores) and then they don’t get the a high quartile. It’s pretty obvious from these threads and others on reddit they are NOT looking for you to say “I will listen to both sides” anybody can say that . They are (speculating here) looking for your ability to connect and understand the problem and reason why someone may feel that way and propose a creative solution. I did not use those “take them aside privately, I would gather more information, etc” type answers. I just honestly answered and said how I would answer in real life. I got 75-100 quartile
Side note: I saw people on reddit complaining about how they didn’t know how to answer a specific question, when it was glaringly obvious they just wanted you to be a good friend and come up with ways to make the people around you not feel bad, and all of them kept saying how irrelevant and impossible of a question it was. Just answer like a human…
In sum it definitely feels like it’s doing it’s job
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deleted555445
I wouldn't let it stop you. Some schools are still only using it retrospectively, i.e. they are only going to look at it at the end of the cycle for data purposes, to see whether it would have saved them any time/found better candidates. Some schools may use it to weed out low scorers, but may cutoff at 10% or 20%, and you may have a 24%. I wouldn't let it stop you, although I would also make sure you're not applying exclusively to CASPer schools, as its still an unknown that changes every year school-to-school
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Top quartile scorer here. Probably accurate.
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People learn a lot and continue to mature and gain new insights and wisdom during med school, residency and beyond. Final result is cumulative so why allege a test can figure it out at such an early stage?
Yet another test is what everyone needs. The CS exam finally got canned but those of us that trained prior to it's inception knew it was bs because we get tested every day on same stuff during years of residency. Sure it made lots of money.
Yet another test is what everyone needs. The CS exam finally got canned but those of us that trained prior to it's inception knew it was bs because we get tested every day on same stuff during years of residency. Sure it made lots of money.
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