Shutting down M3/M4 clinical rotations

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fldoctorgirl said:
School just pulled us to online only until April 26th at the earliest. Cancelled all M3/M4 rotations. I have no idea how we're going to make up all of the labs/SPs/etc we're going to miss and still have a dedicated. I am seriously getting concerned now.
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The chances of a dedicated for us seems very slim at this point.
 
I heard from one student that they reduced their required elective time for graduation and today got an email from our departments clinical rotation coordinator that all med student rotations have been suspended until further notice. I'm a little surprised honestly, I am not sure how this is all going to go down.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
This is my biggest concern. I hope they just eliminate TTC which we all know is a waste anyways.
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They wont eliminate dedicated. To many people have already scheduled for early June and what not. SGA said that D'agustino said that dedicated would not be touched.
 
ohmanwaddup said:
They wont eliminate dedicated. To many people have already scheduled for early June and what not. SGA said that D'agustino said that dedicated would not be touched.
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You got an actual response? I asked them and just got that they have no idea lol
 
How is this going to effect EM apps this year with many students unable to complete an away rotation?
 
We don't have a dedicated for step 2, we just pull from a pool of "12 weeks of vacation." Majority of my classmates and I all scheduled both step 2 exams for this month, since we're just coming off core clerkships - knock those out before forgetting everything from the shelves, and then move on with our lives the rest of fourth year. That's all shot now. Now I'm going to have to take a day off my ACE to go take the stupid thing, or else just not take it until late in the fall, but our school still has a November deadline for both exams. I think they're gonna have to change that
 
Perrotfish said:
Not sure how much ICU you've had, but a critical care patient, from COVID or anything else, is absolutely not 'one thing'. Its one ROOT CAUSE, but its ultimately a dozen different organ systems failing at once and you need a really strong understanding of medicine to deal with any of them. Let alone all of them.
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Let me rephrase,I completely agree that ICU level patients should be managed by doctors, I was referring to all the other COVID patients that don't get to that level. The ones that we are triaging, babysitting, and are crowding ERs or normal inpatient beds. Basically the other 95% of COVID patients.
 
Essentially a majority of schools have pulled their students for two weeks after the acgme and lcme guidance.

This pandemic is going to last months .

Are we going to use the same logic to keep medical students off clinicals for months ?
 
libertyyne said:
Essentially a majority of schools have pulled their students for two weeks after the acgme and lcme guidance.

This pandemic is going to last months .

Are we going to use the same logic to keep medical students off clinicals for months ?
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That's my main worry. My ACE starts at the beginning of May and I legitimately think I might not get to do it
 
Dr. Doctor MD said:
Let me rephrase,I completely agree that ICU level patients should be managed by doctors, I was referring to all the other COVID patients that don't get to that level. The ones that we are triaging, babysitting, and are crowding ERs or normal inpatient beds. Basically the other 95% of COVID patients.
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I think you are underestimating how sick the hospitalized COVID patients are. They're respiratory distress, many with AKI, they have a reputation to suddenly have severe cardiac issues a week into hospitalization, and they are frequently elderly and/or comorbid to start with. The 90% of COVID patients that just need rest and fluids just go home. No one at all needs to see them.

No first hand experience yet, just what I'm reading from the countries that are further along.
 
UNMedGa said:
That's my main worry. My ACE starts at the beginning of May and I legitimately think I might not get to do it
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I think there's an extremely low likelihood that that rotation will happen. If you're not in one of the hotspot areas, you and your school may not realize the tidal wave that's coming. In hard hit areas it's obvious that the crisis is just about to start and things will be getting much worse before they get better. Rising 4th years should try to get their minds recalibrated and prepare to just simply be unprepared. I would look at July as the earliest possible return to anything we considered normal life up until 2 weeks ago.

The good thing is that we have organized leadership (though often weak and beholden to other interests) that will almost certainly be stepping in and leveling the playing field for 4th years. I'm sure national-level decisions will be made to standardize this year for different specialties.
 
C.elegans said:
What implications does the current situation hold for M3s in schools that have a 1yr or 1.5yr preclinical ? So they would currently be done with their core clerkships and Step 1 likely doing a dedicated research semester. Would this affect the elective/away rotation and residency application timeline?
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I'm not going to type it twice...
forums.studentdoctor.net

Away rotation postpone/cancellation due to COVID-19?

I had been accepted to a spot for an away in July at a school that blanket-sent all accepted candidates an email saying away rotations are currently postponed/might be canceled? Spoke to a doc at my home institution and they said many schools are holding off any visiting students for about 3...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net
 
kraskadva said:
I'm not going to type it twice...
forums.studentdoctor.net

Away rotation postpone/cancellation due to COVID-19?

I had been accepted to a spot for an away in July at a school that blanket-sent all accepted candidates an email saying away rotations are currently postponed/might be canceled? Spoke to a doc at my home institution and they said many schools are holding off any visiting students for about 3...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net
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Just type of response that keeps people coming to sdn for high quality info.

If you don't know the answer then just close the tab and walk away.
 
7331poas said:
Just type of response that keeps people coming to sdn for high quality info.

If you don't know the answer then just close the tab and walk away.
Click to expand...
I mean if its readily available on another thread it makes sense to link it. Also, literally nobody knows what is going to happen this has never happened so repeatedly asking "how does this affect x situation?" does nobody any good and just sparks panic from the doomsday prophets here on SDN. Things will get figured out. Also, I see you're contributing quite a bit to these threads, your only response most of the time is to chide people for 'high quality info'. Step off your high horse there bud

There is no way they delay graduation because that would collapse the system without residents on time. What will likely happen is relaxed graduation requirements. Which I mean if you're doing surgery do you really need a psych? Sure some elective time 4th year will be lost but if you're feeling the need to do 6 aways then you may just be over-matched for the specialty. Everyone believes they're the special snowflake that will match no matter what, but the truth is you most likely aren't that special in the world of medicine.

This crisis doesn't exist in a vacuum. Obviously PDs in every specialty will know that this happened and will be understanding of not as many aways, etc. Everyone just needs to relax instead of freaking out over literally everything that happens even remotely related to medicine. I'm an M3, likely the most screwed out of anyone and I still don't doubt it'll all end up fine in the end.
 
7331poas said:
Just type of response that keeps people coming to sdn for high quality info.

If you don't know the answer then just close the tab and walk away.
Click to expand...
The point is that NOBODY knows and asking the same question over and over like a kid on a road trip isn't helpful to anyone.

Most likely, this will take months before we even see the real peak.
Most likely, our healthcare system will break down.
Most likely, rotations as we know them won't exist again until maybe this summer, more likely this fall, possibly later.
Most likely, this will all lead to a global economic depression worse than the 1930s.

Potentially, the US will have to do what the UK and Italy are doing now, I.e. graduate the entire final year of med students early to fill gaps left by overworked, ill, or dead physicians.
Potentially the M3s will be sent back in as well, because with definitely be all hands on deck.

We don't know what this will look like, but we have some strong indications coming from the other countries that are a week or more ahead of us.
And not a one of them are concerned about aways for med students.
So maybe pop out of the self centered hole you're in and think about the bigger picture for a minute.
 
kraskadva said:
The point is that NOBODY knows and asking the same question over and over like a kid on a road trip isn't helpful to anyone.

Most likely, this will take months before we even see the real peak.
Most likely, our healthcare system will break down.
Most likely, rotations as we know them won't exist again until maybe this summer, more likely this fall, possibly later.
Most likely, this will all lead to a global economic depression worse than the 1930s.

Potentially, the US will have to do what the UK and Italy are doing now, I.e. graduate the entire final year of med students early to fill gaps left by overworked, ill, or dead physicians.
Potentially the M3s will be sent back in as well, because with definitely be all hands on deck.

We don't know what this will look like, but we have some strong indications coming from the other countries that are a week or more ahead of us.
And not a one of them are concerned about aways for med students.
So maybe pop out of the self centered hole you're in and think about the bigger picture for a minute.
Click to expand...

Or someone posts about a conversation they had with their dean or a uniquely informed PD.

The point of my post is that there is no need for the general assholery that people respond with on this forum.

But what do I know, maybe the "weak minds" should spend their time on reddit instead.
 
7331poas said:
Or someone posts about a conversation they had with their dean or a uniquely informed PD.

The point of my post is that there is no need for the general assholery that people respond with on this forum.

But what do I know, maybe the "weak minds" should spend their time on reddit instead.
Click to expand...
The deans don't know. The PDs don't know. Any nobody's gonna give 2 s***s about it until we can begin to have some kind of handle on the global crisis that is happening now.
Once we get to a stable point,then things can be reevaluated and decisions can be made about what ERAS will look like for next year. I can guarantee, what ever those decisions are, they're not going to delay graduating an entire year of med students because of whatever happens now. They can waive requirements and change licensure, but they can't go without and entire year of interns.
But until we reach that point, nobodys thinking about the M3s and their schedules.

And if pointing out facts, even hard ones, counts as asshollery, then I will continue to waive that flag and you can shove it.
 
7331poas said:
Or someone posts about a conversation they had with their dean or a uniquely informed PD.

The point of my post is that there is no need for the general assholery that people respond with on this forum.

But what do I know, maybe the "weak minds" should spend their time on reddit instead.
Click to expand...
How many people do you actually think have connections with/reguarly talk to their dean and or 'uniquely informed PD'? I mean cmon. Also its so program, region, and specialty specific even talking to someone in the field won't make a damn bit of difference in terms of generalizability
 
Chibucks15 said:
I mean if its readily available on another thread it makes sense to link it. Also, literally nobody knows what is going to happen this has never happened so repeatedly asking "how does this affect x situation?" does nobody any good and just sparks panic from the doomsday prophets here on SDN. Things will get figured out. Also, I see you're contributing quite a bit to these threads, your only response most of the time is to chide people for 'high quality info'. Step off your high horse there bud

There is no way they delay graduation because that would collapse the system without residents on time. What will likely happen is relaxed graduation requirements. Which I mean if you're doing surgery do you really need a psych? Sure some elective time 4th year will be lost but if you're feeling the need to do 6 aways then you may just be over-matched for the specialty. Everyone believes they're the special snowflake that will match no matter what, but the truth is you most likely aren't that special in the world of medicine.

This crisis doesn't exist in a vacuum. Obviously PDs in every specialty will know that this happened and will be understanding of not as many aways, etc. Everyone just needs to relax instead of freaking out over literally everything that happens even remotely related to medicine. I'm an M3, likely the most screwed out of anyone and I still don't doubt it'll all end up fine in the end.
Click to expand...
Like seriously , 2 million people might die. PDs and their colleagues are going to likely be placed in harms way, look at Italy they recruited dermatologists for vent management ,Millions of people are losing their jobs , possible difficulty securing away rotations seems like such a low priority right now that it sounds insane even complaining about it.
Like the rest of the nation there is alot of Uncertainty ahead.
 
Chibucks15 said:
What will likely happen is relaxed graduation requirements. Which I mean if you're doing surgery do you really need a psych?
Click to expand...

I mean, my answer would be yes so that I don't get that 30th daily consult on a patient who is "crying" in post op. But yeah, I agree this is likely the direction we're going in.
 
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