Sigma Phi is A JOKE!!!

[corpsmanUP]

I was just reminded about Sigma Sigma Phi when I was reading my December "the DO". I was reminded just how much of a joke this organization actually is in terms of being anything "academic". Sadly the ERAS has determined that SSP is worthy enough to put a spot on the residency application for it right next to AOA that MD students check if they have gained AOA status. This to me says that someone pulled the wool over the eyes of ERAS and made them believe that this organization is somehow comparable to AOA. NONSENSE!!!!

Perhaps it truly is a "servic society", but then it should not be on the application under academic achievements! And my very good friend is one of the leaders of SSP at my school, but she already knows what I think of SSP. I just want to reassure those of you who either decided not to participate in the organization or were kept out due to the "high school politics" involved, that it makes absolutely no difference when you go to apply for residency. What matters are your real stats, like scores, grades, letters, and personal statement. Not once have I been asked about not being a member of SSP. I was actually hoping that someone would ask me about it because I wanted to tell them how idiotic a process one must go through to get in SSP. First of all, it makes no sense to accept people into SSP your first year of school. The word honor in honor society clearly means that one should have done something worthy of honor. At my school, you basically had to kiss the a$$ of some 2nd year med student, which clearly eliminated most of the top academic students who were more involved with studying than the politics of low cut pants and navel piercings. The people in the class ahead of us who ran the process for accepting new SSP members did not base their decisions on what someone had actually accomplished or how much volunteer work they actually did. They simply based it on who knew who, and who was "popular" so to speak.

Well, I always have to start this thread about once a year just to piss off all the SSP members (sorry to my good friend M....C). A real honor society like AOA has a system of checks and balances that makes it very difficult to get in unless you have really accomplished something.

But in the end, trust me, it means nothing in DO world. Mayo, Duke, Indiana U, U Pitt, Case, UTSW, S&W, and about 20 other noteworthy institutions found it easy to overlook that I was not a member of the esteemed SSP.

Personally I feel it should be removed from the ERAS application until they spread the wealth and include the National Rifle Association, the Association of American Civil Liberties, and the Who's Who in American Medical School's List. Because SSP is no more impressive or disimpressive than being a member of any of these.

I'm Paul Harvey, and good day.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[kcumbDO]

SSP in not an academic honor society. It is an honor and service fraternity, meaning its member are picked by fellow classmates. The requirement are to be top 30 percent and have service activity. The real academic honor society in the DO world is PSA or Psi Sigma Alpha, this is the National Osteopathic Scholastic Honor Society which picks the top 15 percent of the class, this is a strictly academic society, there is no service required and you are selected by the dean.

 

[fuegorama]

SSP in not an academic honor society. It is an honor and service fraternity, meaning its member are picked by fellow classmates. The requirement are to be top 30 percent and have service activity. The real academic honor society in the DO world is PSA or Psi Sigma Alpha, this is the National Osteopathic Scholastic Honor Society which picks the top 15 percent of the class, this is a strictly academic society, there is no service required and you are selected by the dean.

Isn't that 15% only for the pre-clinical years?
If PiSsAh is based on a percentile, why would the dean be "picking"?

My issue with both SSP and PSA is that they both tout themselves as the equivalent of AOA. Neither of them stack up. We simply lack a substitute.

Does anyone have any history or info about DOs approaching AlphaOmegaAlapha about non-allo chapters?

 

[corpsmanUP]

I honestly believe that someone should take the bold move of starting an academic honor society for DO's. And not the one mentioned above, because it does not even exist at all schools. My school has no chapter. I just find it comical that ERAS has a spot to check off for anyone who is a member of Sigma Phi, and it is right there with the AOA checkoff. Thats like placing Stop-n-Go in the same category as Chipotle simply because you can get a burrito at either place...

 

[gclax30]

I was just reminded about Sigma Sigma Phi when I was reading my December "the DO". I was reminded just how much of a joke this organization actually is in terms of being anything "academic". Sadly the ERAS has determined that SSP is worthy enough to put a spot on the residency application for it right next to AOA that MD students check if they have gained AOA status. This to me says that someone pulled the wool over the eyes of ERAS and made them believe that this organization is somehow comparable to AOA. NONSENSE!!!!

Perhaps it truly is a "servic society", but then it should not be on the application under academic achievements! And my very good friend is one of the leaders of SSP at my school, but she already knows what I think of SSP. I just want to reassure those of you who either decided not to participate in the organization or were kept out due to the "high school politics" involved, that it makes absolutely no difference when you go to apply for residency. What matters are your real stats, like scores, grades, letters, and personal statement. Not once have I been asked about not being a member of SSP. I was actually hoping that someone would ask me about it because I wanted to tell them how idiotic a process one must go through to get in SSP. First of all, it makes no sense to accept people into SSP your first year of school. The word honor in honor society clearly means that one should have done something worthy of honor. At my school, you basically had to kiss the a$$ of some 2nd year med student, which clearly eliminated most of the top academic students who were more involved with studying than the politics of low cut pants and navel piercings. The people in the class ahead of us who ran the process for accepting new SSP members did not base their decisions on what someone had actually accomplished or how much volunteer work they actually did. They simply based it on who knew who, and who was "popular" so to speak.

Well, I always have to start this thread about once a year just to piss off all the SSP members (sorry to my good friend M....C). A real honor society like AOA has a system of checks and balances that makes it very difficult to get in unless you have really accomplished something.

But in the end, trust me, it means nothing in DO world. Mayo, Duke, Indiana U, U Pitt, Case, UTSW, S&W, and about 20 other noteworthy institutions found it easy to overlook that I was not a member of the esteemed SSP.

Personally I feel it should be removed from the ERAS application until they spread the wealth and include the National Rifle Association, the Association of American Civil Liberties, and the Who's Who in American Medical School's List. Because SSP is no more impressive or disimpressive than being a member of any of these.

I'm Paul Harvey, and good day.

YES, YES YES! 100% agree, thank you for saying this, it is about time. I honestly thought that we were out of the highschool popularity contest days but I guess I was wrong! I've never seen a club/organization so incredibly revered by students but so full of hot air.

I was invited to apply last year and thought it sounded good so I gave it a shot... I filled out their application and got my "interview" a few weeks later. It was 25 minutes of holier-than-though attitudes and glares, and I felt like I had to defend myself for having only joined a couple of clubs that year for the sake of keeping my grades up. As it turns out, the club only hosts two "service events" each year, one of which is a get-drunk-and-make-an-A$$-of-yourself event, so I'm not sure who they're actually "serving" through that one... anyway, I was invited to apply again this year and was told by someone on the board that I would definitely get in, even though I informed them that I hadn't done squat since I applied for it last year, but they said that was ok. Yeah, no thanks 👎

I had the same question about osteopathic students joining AOA, does anyone know if we can? I would be all for starting our own honor society (even though I probably wouldn't have the grades to get in )

 

[drusso]

Very interesting. I think that the best way to reform *ANY* group is to work from the inside. Being AOA carries much weight at ACGME-accredited programs---some programs giving extra points on the interview or total application for AOA status. DO students who are elected honor's status at their schools should also be similarly acknowledged and have similar advantages when applying to residency. Those who feel strongly about this should work hard to straighten out the situation.

http://www.sigmasigmaphi.org/

http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/

By the way the criteria for election to AOA is as follows:

Section 2. Medical Student Memberships


a. Those candidates whose scholastic qualifications place them in the upper twenty-five percent of their class shall be considered for election. From that number, one-sixth of the total number of the class expected to graduate may be elected to membership. In those medical schools that have no graded standings for students, the Dean or his/her designee can provide to the chapter Councilor the names of students that approximate in number the upper quartile of the class expected to graduate and who, by consensus, match the high criteria for selection to membership (see section 2c.).
b. Up to one-half of the quota for any class may be elected to membership in the spring of their junior year. Each chapter, each year, may determine whether or not to elect members from the junior class. Chapters may choose to elect all or a portion of their quota of student members at any time during the senior year prior to graduation. Each chapter is encouraged to save one or two positions in each class of students for seniors to be elected close to time of graduation, in recognition of notable achievements during the final year of undergraduate medical education.
c. Criteria for election:
Scholastic achievement should be the primary but not sole basis for election of a student. Leadership capabilities, ethical standards, fairness in dealing with colleagues, potential for achievement in medicine, and a record of service to the school and community at large should be criteria in addition to the academic record. These additional attributes will be weighted in the selection process by policies established within each chapter

http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/AOAmain/4thLevel/ConstitutionFull.htm

 

[Shinken]

Looks like some people are bitter that they didn't make it into SSP...that's OK. That's the whole point. Not everyone makes it in, and those who do should be recognized even if it seems asinine to those who didn't make the cut.

School life sometimes reflects real life. Many times it's who you know or how "popular" you are that makes a difference.

Affirmative action, legacy admissions, etc. It's real life. We must learn to deal with it or we'll go insane.

 

[sophiejane]

If it's so unimportant and worthless at all of the venerable institutions you feel the need to regularly remind us at which you have interviewed, why take the time to write such a novel of a post slamming this worthless little high-school organization?

If it's unimportant, who cares if it has a spot on ERAS? If PDs at all the BEST programs don't care, why should anyone else?

 

[gclax30]

If it's so unimportant and worthless at all of the venerable institutions you feel the need to regularly remind us at which you have interviewed, why take the time to write such a novel of a post slamming this worthless little high-school organization?

If it's unimportant, who cares if it has a spot on ERAS? If PDs at all the BEST programs don't care, why should anyone else?

Did you just need a little ego-stroking, Corpsman? Have you not been getting enough attention on SDN for being brilliant lately?

There, there. Not to worry. Soon you will be #1 EM resident at the #1 EM residency in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE and it really won't matter any more...

😉

On the contrary, I'm glad Corpsman made that initial post because I have been wondering since last year what all the big fuss was about SSP and if anyone actually gave a rip about it. I'm glad to see that no one apparently does. But it should be removed as a separate category from ERAS because it is completely arbitrary and no more prestigious than any other club. I'm sure you can fit it into your extracurriculars description somewhere. If not, they should put checks on there for SOMA, SOSA, UAAO, ACOFP, etc. if that is the case.

Shinken, I realize that the popularity politics b.s. exists in med school just as it does anywhere else in life, but "accepting" it doesn't mean shrugging it off and not speaking out against it.

 

[sophiejane]

Again, where is the logic in making this change (or even discussing it) if no one gives a "rip" anyway?

Apparently those advocating for taking the box off the ERAS app think it matters enough to PDs that it should be removed so as not to "confuse" them. But if they already know what a "joke" it is--why bother getting upset about it?

If it truly didn't matter, if it was no more significant that the address or zip code box, as some of you suggest, then what's the harm in leaving it there?

 

[gclax30]

Again, where is the logic in making this change (or even discussing it) if no one gives a "rip" anyway?

Apparently those advocating for taking the box off the ERAS app think it matters enough to PDs that it should be removed so as not to "confuse" them. But if they already know what a "joke" it is--why bother getting upset about it?

If it truly didn't matter, if it was no more significant that the address or zip code box, as some of you suggest, then what's the harm in leaving it there?

It's called principle.

 

[sophiejane]

On the contrary, I think it's called a few students who didn't get into SSP in spite of their stellar academic accomplishments being afraid that their middle-of-the-road classmates might get a leg up on them on their residency apps.

It's very transparent, really. You aren't THAT interested in principles. It seems to me that you are interested in making sure someone of lesser qualifications than you doesn't get an extra point when applicant ranking time comes around.

Do you think there would be an uproar if this little box HADN'T appeared on the ERAS form? I doubt it. SSP would have just cruised along, making few waves, nobody really caring if it existed or not.

But the minute the REAL top of the class gets wind of it, there's this collective whining that erupts. "It's not fair!! Look at all those nobodies with mere 85% averages getting their OWN BOX on the ERAS APPLICATION!!"

If you are a competitive applicant, nothing can take that away from you, as Corpsman suggests. Apparently, nobody looks at whether or not you have SSP membership anyway, so this being about principle is a moot point.

I couldn't honestly care less about the little box. I'm doing FP. Apparently all I need to get a residency spot is a pulse.

 

[drusso]

Both SSP and AOA members need to be elected, correct? Both SSP and AOA need to be in the top quarter of their classes, correct? Both have sort of vague exceptions to the rule that get people who don't meet the requirement class rank but possess other community service or leadership accomplishments that qualify for election, correct? So, what are the critics of SSP specifically upset about? It's not like everyone who qualified for AOA got elected either if I understand their election procedures.

Regardless, since MD-residency programs do give extra weight to AOA status, someone make sure that ACGME program directors understand the similarities between SSP and AOA if they indeed exist.

 

[EastCoaster78]

woops was thinking of PHI SIGMA GAMMA instead of SIGMA SIGMA PHI.

 

[Cowboy DO]

Both SSP and AOA members need to be elected, correct? Both SSP and AOA need to be in the top quarter of their classes, correct? Both have sort of vague exceptions to the rule that get people who don't meet the requirement class rank but possess other community service or leadership accomplishments that qualify for election, correct? So, what are the critics of SSP specifically upset about? It's not like everyone who qualified for AOA got elected either if I understand their election procedures.

Regardless, since MD-residency programs do give extra weight to AOA status, someone make sure that ACGME program directors understand the similarities between SSP and AOA if they indeed exist.

Unlike the AOA there aren't SPP chapters at every school. My school realized what a joke this was and stopped participating. Also to my knowledge AOA candidates are nominated by faculty members, SPP not so sure...

 

[DrBowtie]

Unlike the AOA there aren't SPP chapters at every school. My school realized what a joke this was and stopped participating. Also to my knowledge AOA candidates are nominated by faculty members, SPP not so sure...

There isn't AOA at every school.

 

[Sugar72]

To have an AOA chapter you have to have a certain number of faculty AOA members to support the chapter. You theoretically could have one at a DO school if you had enough MD's on faculty that are in AOA.
We are what we are and if you look at some of the discussions about AOA ther is a lot of anger over the politics of admissions into that group as well.

 

[corpsmanUP]

SJ- I think its time we shared a beer soon and let you work off some 3rd year steam!!

Russo,

For God's sake dude, I thought Rochester was having a nice warm winter this year. Are you suffering brain freeze? There is no comparrison between AOA and SSP. AOA cannot be joined after one mere semester of making top 25%, and it certainly requires faculty nomination. SSP can be joined in December of your first year in a DO school, and you are elected by a bunch of 2nd years who are also biased against anyone not their buddies. You must have been a member too is my guess. I usually appreciate all your comments here but this one really flew in the face of reason. I can tell you because I saw it first hand, at TCOM, there were a dozen or more stellar people who did not make it in. One was one of our most esteemed class leaders who has done more for our class and school than most people in our history. And several that got in had never done ANY volunteer work that was verifiable. This organization will not be changed from within. Thats like saying you need to join the KKK in order to make it respectable. I beg to differ.

 

[sophiejane]

Steam????what Steam???what The Hell Are You Talking About???i"m Not Stressed!!! I Love Getting Up At 4am!! I Love 3rd Year!!

And Ssp Rocks! It"s My Ticket To Derm! I Just Know It!!

 

[drusso]

SJ- I think its time we shared a beer soon and let you work off some 3rd year steam!!

Russo,

For God's sake dude, I thought Rochester was having a nice warm winter this year. Are you suffering brain freeze? There is no comparrison between AOA and SSP. AOA cannot be joined after one mere semester of making top 25%, and it certainly requires faculty nomination. SSP can be joined in December of your first year in a DO school, and you are elected by a bunch of 2nd years who are also biased against anyone not their buddies. You must have been a member too is my guess. I usually appreciate all your comments here but this one really flew in the face of reason. I can tell you because I saw it first hand, at TCOM, there were a dozen or more stellar people who did not make it in. One was one of our most esteemed class leaders who has done more for our class and school than most people in our history. And several that got in had never done ANY volunteer work that was verifiable. This organization will not be changed from within. Thats like saying you need to join the KKK in order to make it respectable. I beg to differ.

I can't remember if I was in it or not. It wasn't an issue when I applied to residency. Clearly, with standardized ERAS application for both MD and DO programs, the stakes are higher. My point is that AOA status is given a lot of credence at ACGME-accredited residency programs. If there is an error then someone should fix it. Isn't that what SOMA is for? I imagine that you could either ask ERAS to remove SSP and replace it with Psi Sigma Alpha or reform SSP. I do know that AOA is not based *SOLELY* on academic factors but it is given the most weight in the selection process.

P.S. I am aware of more than one DO who applied before SSP was on the ERAS application and checked the AOA box because they thought it was "American Osteoopathic Association." No one ever asked for clarification on interviews so I don't think that PD's know that DO schools can't have AOA chapters.

 

[corpsmanUP]

I can't remember if I was in it or not. It wasn't an issue when I applied to residency. Clearly, with standardized ERAS application for both MD and DO programs, the stakes are higher. My point is that AOA status is given a lot of credence at ACGME-accredited residency programs. If there is an error then someone should fix it. Isn't that what SOMA is for? I imagine that you could either ask ERAS to remove SSP and replace it with Psi Sigma Alpha or reform SSP. I do know that AOA is not based *SOLELY* on academic factors but it is given the most weight in the selection process.

P.S. I am aware of more than one DO who applied before SSP was on the ERAS application and checked the AOA box because they thought it was "American Osteoopathic Association." No one ever asked for clarification on interviews so I don't think that PD's know that DO schools can't have AOA chapters.

You have an incredible career in politics awaiting you should you want one Russo. I know a lot more about you than you might think, and I can say for certain that there is NO way you would forget whether or not you were in it or not. It hasn't been that long since you were here at good old TCOM. Your name is still littered across the OMM department studies and you are some sort of legend as a PDF. I think next to Steve Simmons you are probably one of the most famous DO's to leave here. But I'll play along Russo, and I won't give you any crap for not admitting your membership status. I wouldn't admit it either 😉 By the way, is that ugly blown glass still hanging in Gonda?