Skip general biology II for upper level?

[zeppelinpage4]

So yeah my first semester schedule has been pretty standard with
Gen Chem I, Gen Bio I, Bio lab, Calc I and one writing course.

For next semester I was going to go to chem II, gen bio II, chem lab, Calc II and some sort of fifth general ed class.

My current general biology class covers Cells, Genetics, Evolution.

The course following it covers Diversity, Physiology, Ecology.

So far I have loved the material in my bio I class, the concepts and ideas behind topics like genetics really interests me and i've been doing okay in the class.

Only I have heard that bio II with diversity, is much more memorization and I recall disliking those sections in AP bio. Very few concepts and just classifying organisms, physiology might be the only thing I would like. So after discussing with a few upper class men, I decided to use my AP credits and skip general biology II and go to Principles of Ecology which is a 200 level course.

I initially took general biology because I had no idea how hard the courses would be and I thought it was the safest choice but now it seems like it might be okay to go to the upper level. The material is harder but it should be more interesting and I won't be in a 150 student lecture hall. Have any premeds or med students gone this route? Did you do okay in the upper level class compared to staying in the intro courses?

I'm a bio major and taking the upper level would help me get to my degree faster (and I could avoid gen bio II) but I question how badly my GPA could suffer. The upperclassmen i've talked to have told me that it's not much harder than Gen bio II, you just need to put the work into it. I am also taking a special biology focused Calc II course so it's likely to be a bit rigorous next semester. I want to learn alot and take as much as I can while I am here and I know I probably won't be pulling many A's but I don't want to dramatically hurt chances for medical school later on.

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[apumic]

In general, Bio IS memorization-heavy...and from what I gather, med school is far moreso. I'd probably finish out the bio sequence as the phys and diversity (esp as it pertains to evolution) will show up on the MCAT. Most schools also dislike students skipping prereqs. On the other hand, I was never one for prereqs and did a lot of skipping around myself. It's totally doable, but don't expect to get any extra help because you lack the background.... (200-level classes, btw, are generally quite easy. If you were skipping the intro to cell part of gen bio for cell bio, cell physio, or immunology, OTOH, there might be reason for concern.)

 

[Evergrey]

I did not take Biology II at my school. Biology II, at my school at least, ONLY discusses ecology, evolutionary biology, and other stuff pertaining to plants, fungi, insects, and other organisms besides humans, etc. I don't know if your Bio II is more pertinent to medical school than the one at my college, but at my school it was a waste for any Pre-Med who cared more about molecular and cellular biology and not at all about what the different phyla of fungi are. In my limited humanities major schedule, I chose to take two other classes instead: Molecular & Evolutionary Biology, and Biochemistry.

Personally, I don't see a reason why medical schools would unfavorably view taking a relevant upper division biology course instead of an only peripherally related lower division biology course. Most schools (if not all) say that you need one year of biology, and do not specify whether or not it is only the introductory-level courses. I would definitely think that succeeding in harder classes proves to medical schools that you are more than capable of succeeding at the basic classes as well.

 

[Tots]

How would Principles of Ecology be any different than Diversity and Ecology? I would just take Bio II, sure you will have some of the Diversity stuff thrown in but...enjoy the physiology, sure sounds better than Principles of Ecology.

Anyways I doubt your GPA will really differ depending on whether you take Principles of Ecology or the Diversity, Physiology, Ecology course. Though this is probably be very school dependent.

 

[MexicanDr]

Biology II, at my school at least, ONLY discusses ecology, evolutionary biology, and other stuff pertaining to plants, fungi, insects, and other organisms besides humans, etc.

This is the same stuff that I will be covering in my Bio II class. My question is: Is any of these things really relevant when it comes to the MCAT? or why does the majority of premed students take Bio 2? I understand why taking BIO 1( Cell, Biochem, Genetics,Physio), but how relevant is BIO II to the mcat stuff?

If one can avoid this class, then I will do that, but since this is new to me, I ll wait for more of your opinion/advice.

 

[Evergrey]

Well, anecdotally, I didn't see anything on the MCAT that hadn't been at least touched on in my intro bio class (Bio I: Intro to Molecular, Biochem, and Cellular). But you will definitely need to review the gaps while studying for the MCAT. Kidney physiology for instance is extremely important for the MCAT, but it was only briefly talked about in my bio class.

The only thing that you get from taking Bio II is basic evolutionary biology (and you can learn what you need to know for the MCAT from self-studying easily), and information on fungi (which I have never even heard of being mentioned on the MCAT, but was covered on EK Bio nonetheless since it is on the MCAT topic list).

 

[Evergrey]

I guess ultimately what I'm getting at is, take classes that are fun that will prepare you better for the MCAT. In terms of effort and time invested, Bio II does not seem like a good idea. Plus it will be boring for people who are more interested in the molecular basis of life (i.e. medicine). If you want to have an introduction to ecology and a survey of all life, then definitely take Bio II. It's just my opinion that it is not particularly helpful for premed aspirations (indeed it is not even listed as a suggested course on my school's premed website).

 

[scattun]

How would Principles of Ecology be any different than Diversity and Ecology? I would just take Bio II, sure you will have some of the Diversity stuff thrown in but...enjoy the physiology, sure sounds better than Principles of Ecology.

Anyways I doubt your GPA will really differ depending on whether you take Principles of Ecology or the Diversity, Physiology, Ecology course. Though this is probably be very school dependent.

At my school at least, there is a huge difference. The general class is more accurately described as diversity/classification and physiology with some ecology thrown in. I seriously doubt they get past food webs in the general class, and the ecology class assumes you already know them and starts with more advanced ecological topics.

For the OP, take your bio 2 credit and run. As a bio major you are going to have so many upper level bio classes that no adcom is going to care that you took ap credit for a single semester of general bio (I took credit for both semesters of general bio and I have had zero problems with it while applying). As for if skipping the class will hurt your performance, I really doubt it will. General biology is meant to give you a base yes, but its unnecessary to memorize minute details for your next class. As long as you have major concepts down (i.e. evolution and natural selection), you will be perfectly fine.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

Awesome, thanks a lot guys looks like I'll stick with Principles of Ecology and skip Bio II then.

If there's anything I could miss for the MCAT it seems I can go over those topics when actually studying for the exam. Also it is true my Bio II course will most likely just be the last couple chapters on phylogenetic trees and classification. Both ways I will be doing ecology and similar topics but if I can skip Bio II and Principles of Ecology has more depth it might be a little more interesting.

It's really good to know some of you guys have managed to do this.

THanks again, it was huge help getting your opinions on this.

 

[nonsciencemajor]

I would take General Biology II, even if it does not interest you. Every med school will accept General Bio I and II for the biology requirement, but some schools (I believe like SUNY Upstate) will not take anatomy and physiology to meet the biology requirement as an example.... so to be safe and eligible for as many medical schools as possible, just take General Biology II

 

[boaz]

i would take general biology ii, even if it does not interest you. Every med school will accept general bio i and ii for the biology requirement, but some schools (i believe like suny upstate) will not take anatomy and physiology to meet the biology requirement as an example.... So to be safe and eligible for as many medical schools as possible, just take general biology ii

+1

 

[CoffeeCzar]

Take whatever will give you a good GPA. You'll have plenty of time for upper level science classes later.

 

[MexicanDr]

What med schools WILL take Some other Bio (Physiology w/lab or Anatomy w/lab) instead of Bio II? Is there a place I can find this info at without checking the many med schools?

 

[nonsciencemajor]

What med schools WILL take Some other Bio (Physiology w/lab or Anatomy w/lab) instead of Bio II? Is there a place I can find this info at without checking the many med schools?

its very hard to find this info, unless you search all the official med school admission websites... just take bio ii.........

And this is just a personal belief, but I think taking general bio I and II are admission committee's most preferred way for applicants to fulfill the bio requirement... General Bio, General Chem, Orgo, and Physics are the MOST important courses for any applicant... even more important than upper level science courses, as these prereq's are the only true way (other than MCAT) to compare applicants who have different majors, and those applicants who elected not to take upper level science courses.. thats why I dont even think getting AP credit is smart for these general science courses

in addition, in med school general bio wont be taught but all those upper level bio courses will be taught, so I just get the impression med school's wanna see general bio i and ii

and technically for the MCAT, general bio is what they test

 

[madamebovary]

technically your gen BIO II course would be easier than upper div course and for gpa purposes, it may be easier to get an good grade. However, it is not necessary to fulfill the premed req of one year of bio + lab. I just skipped BioII and went straight to upper div Genetics, since i really not interested in plants and ecology. So only advice is play to your strengths and whatever interests you more.

 

[MexicanDr]

I have taken Anatomy w/lab, Physio w/lab and Micro w/lab and did really well on those classes. Since I recently considered that i want to apply to med school, I will be starting my pre-reqs, but if I DONT have to take Bio II, I wont since its all about plants and ecology and some evolution.

The question is which med schools will be ok WITHOUT Bio II and being substituted by the classes mentioned above or genetics which I plant to take later on.

What should I do now?? lol damn...😕

 

[Evergrey]

Well I looked at the page for SUNY Upstate, and that's the first time I've ever heard of a school having a preference for Bio II over an upper division biology class. This is by far not the norm and you will have no trouble finding schools that accept (and also prefer) more relevant and challenging biology courses than Bio II.

After having gone through college and taken the MCAT, I guess in my opinion the best preparation would be Bio I, Genetics, Cell Biology, and Biochemistry. Since you already have a strong background in Biology, I'd probably recommend Genetics and Biochemistry (those are the two classes that I see consistently mentioned as recommended courses by admissions offices in order to help you succeed in a medical school curriculum). That will give you a great foundation for the MCAT and for medical school. And, even though lots of people talk about how you only need the barebones science prereqs to succeed in medical school, my understanding after talking to several humanities major medical students and physicians is that having a background in medical coursework doesn't necessarily help you succeed, but it will take less time to synthesize concepts resulting in less study time overall.

 

[mybubbles14]

I didn't take it...in hindsight I wish I hadn't used so many AP credits to skip some of the intro classes but oh well. One of my best friends didn't take either of the "intro bio" classes (although he took upper level bio classes) and got accepted as well.

my best suggestion is to research the schools that you're interested in to be sure of their requirements regardless...

 

[PinkIvy08]

I did not take Biology II at my school. Biology II, at my school at least, ONLY discusses ecology, evolutionary biology, and other stuff pertaining to plants, fungi, insects, and other organisms besides humans, etc. I don't know if your Bio II is more pertinent to medical school than the one at my college, but at my school it was a waste for any Pre-Med who cared more about molecular and cellular biology and not at all about what the different phyla of fungi are. In my limited humanities major schedule, I chose to take two other classes instead: Molecular & Evolutionary Biology, and Biochemistry.

Personally, I don't see a reason why medical schools would unfavorably view taking a relevant upper division biology course instead of an only peripherally related lower division biology course. Most schools (if not all) say that you need one year of biology, and do not specify whether or not it is only the introductory-level courses. I would definitely think that succeeding in harder classes proves to medical schools that you are more than capable of succeeding at the basic classes as well.

I agree 100%. I did not take BioII (knew it'd be boring and unimportant to my future career) and took upper level bios instead. I've been accepted and I know many others in the same boat. My pre-med advisor even suggested that I forego the course and take more pertinent courses (i.e. micro, genetics, cell bio, etc). I guess you could research schools, but I feel that very few specifically require BioII. You just need 2 Bios with labs.

Just look at the "Most Hated Class" thread. There's a reason BioII is on there repeatedly. Don't do it to yourself! Run while you still can!!! lol

 

[MexicanDr]

So would it still apply to people like me who do not have AP Bio credit and still want to skip Bio II and take some other Bio class more relevant to medicine?

 

[mathgrl83]

To those people considering this route: I would not make this decision until you have confirmed with every school that you want to apply to that they will accept it. The last thing you want is to find out later that you can't apply to a school because you didn't take Bio 2. I noticed many schools during the application process that said specifically 2 semesters of General Biology are required. That said, about 1/4 of my Bio 2 class was anatomy and physiology, which was both interesting and helpful. It also included bacteria and viruses, which would be useful background info for a future doctor to know. It wasn't ALL plants and ecology.

 

[nonsciencemajor]

To those people considering this route: I would not make this decision until you have confirmed with every school that you want to apply to that they will accept it. The last thing you want is to find out later that you can't apply to a school because you didn't take Bio 2. I noticed many schools during the application process that said specifically 2 semesters of General Biology are required. That said, about 1/4 of my Bio 2 class was anatomy and physiology, which was both interesting and helpful. It also included bacteria and viruses, which would be useful background info for a future doctor to know. It wasn't ALL plants and ecology.

yes my general bio II class was this also, except it was about 1/2 anatomy and physiology. Remember, the MCAT technically tests only General Biology, as the MCAT is a standardized test... they have assumed everyone has taken general bio, but they will not assume everyone has taken cell bio, genetics, biochem, etc... sure these topics are tested, BUT it is expected to have been covered in your general bio sequence....

From my understanding, upper level science courses fulfill the biology requirement IF you got AP credit (4 or 5) for general biology... if you didnt, it would be in your BEST interest to take general bio i and ii, and then you dont even need to take any upper level bio courses....

if an applicant does not have AP credit and just does the general science sequence, from my understanding, med schools dont care at all if an applicant like this has or has not taken upper level science courses.... but they are looking for (3.5+) in the required prereq's of General Bio, General Chem, Physics, and Orgo.

Remember, these are the courses which are used to compare applicants.

 

[nonsciencemajor]

What med schools WILL take Some other Bio (Physiology w/lab or Anatomy w/lab) instead of Bio II? Is there a place I can find this info at without checking the many med schools?

I am guessing you are from California from your profile... Remember Cali is very difficult for med school, so it is in your interest to apply to out of state schools which are friendly to out of staters... SUNY Upstate is definitely one of them.. keep this in mind

 

[Abby_Normal]

My school does not have general biology. There's a one semester intro to life sciences, and then you can choose from cell biology, general microbiology, genetics, vertebrate zoology, and other 200-level bio courses. I placed out of intro to life sciences and took cell bio and general micro. I did start to worry about the not having taken 100-level general bio, so I talked to a doctor who put the question to some of his colleagues with admissions experience and they didn't think most schools would expect a student to go back and take a course they placed out of, as long as they took an upper-level equivalent in its place (for biology, at least). Obviously, some schools do, but as a general rule...

 

[zeppelinpage4]

Yeah i'm hoping it's only a small precentage of medical schools that require Bio II.

I tried looking at some other schools including the SUNY ones but couldn't find much information on prerequisite requirements. Truth be told I'm only a freshman so I have no idea what schools I would be interested in and who to check up with.

I suppose only time will tell really, I could regret this big time later down the road or I could be glad I did it.

Maybe they'd allow taking Bio II at a communicty college over the summer later on if I found out I really needed it.

 

[madamebovary]

I'm pretty certain that as long as it's bio class with lab, it will fulfill the prerequisite, so it's not necessary to take BIO II as long as you take like upper div bio class with lab. Plus, many schools recommend you taking genetics, biochem, physio, e.g. (there is a list).
And put it this way, worse case sceneario, you are applying to med schools the summer of junior year, you can always tell the med school adcoms that you will finish that BIO II req second semester of senior year.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

^ Yeah I really hope it works out in the long run.

I met again with my advisor and he...well hasn't been the easiest to deal with.
He says the Bio II stuff will comprise a good portion of the MCAT BS section, while my upper level courses will not be on it as much.
He's also telling me that most students he sees that skip out of Bio II seem to do worse in upper level and he's sort of pressuring me into taking 119. He says it will be better but he's really pushing for me to take Bio II and I don't think he wants to se me in Principles of Ecology.

I'm almost scared that if I take Principles of Ecology, my advisor is going to think I didn't take his advice and he's not going to be very helpful if all this doesn't work out. Hasn't done much up till this point beyond telling me to take Calc II and 119...

Also is it true Principles of Ecology has calculus inolved? I'm taking Calc I now but math is certainly not my strongpoint.

I don't know, I really want to skip Bio II, if I take Principles of Ecology now, I can take Cell Biology by the end of my sophomore year as opposed to the beginning of my junior year and most of the upperclassmen i've spoken with told me it's better to skip it. So I really don't know who to listen to here. 😕

 

[csmittyB]

I met again with my advisor and he...well hasn't been the easiest to deal with.
He says the Bio II stuff will comprise a good portion of the MCAT BS section, while my upper level courses will not be on it as much.

Has he taken the MCAT or studied for it? Use your AP credit for Bio II(if thats what you want), take the money you would use to buy the Bio II textbook and buy a BS MCAT prep book. That should help you fill the gaps.

I'm almost scared that if I take Principles of Ecology, my advisor is going to think I didn't take his advice and he's not going to be very helpful if all this doesn't work out.

Advisors are almost never helpful. They are advisors because they couldn't do anything else with their life.

 

[Evergrey]

He's also telling me that most students he sees that skip out of Bio II seem to do worse in upper level and he's sort of pressuring me into taking 119.

This is just wrong! If you compare the topic list of Bio II to the MCAT required topics, there's a significant disjunction. Some things might be useful, but they can easily be learned by self-study. Remember, learning knowledge is the easy part about the MCAT. Doing a lot of practice problems and being able to synthesize the knowledge in unfamiliar situations is the part where the "critical analysis" comes in.