General Admissions & OTCAS Snarkyness from PTs?

[occupationalguy]

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Just wondering if you guys have ever encountered this in the field, or in a program?
I've posted a few things in the DPT forum where I questioned the utility of a clinical doctorate, and a student chimed in saying that PTs are more critical in the rehabilitation process. I have not personally encountered anything that bad in the field. I've worked with one unpleasant DPT who insisted that his patients refer to him as "doctor" XYZ. Most patients and PTs rolled their eyes, as did I.

Has anyone else encountered this stuff? I don't get the rivalry that some people promote. Luckily everywhere I have ever worked PTs have been pretty great and collaborative. I view them as partners in rehab, but I've gotten a vibe from some here which is really off putting.

 

[Bokonomy]

I've had a bad experience with a rehab director who was a PT, but I haven't had too many issues. I like to make jokes about PTs sometimes when taking to friends outside of the field, but I always try to follow it up by saying how important they are and why we need rehab professionals who are biomechanical as well.

 

[occupationalguy]

I've had a bad experience with a rehab director who was a PT, but I haven't had too many issues. I like to make jokes about PTs sometimes when taking to friends outside of the field, but I always try to follow it up by saying how important they are and why we need rehab professionals who are biomechanical as well.

I agree. They are invaluable. We are too. PS many OTs are very biomechanical in orientation when it comes to UE conditions (you might just be speaking to one right now 🙂

Take a peek at the thinking at the PT forum, there is a lot of interesting ideas about how they are more "central to rehabilitation", and they have "amazing salary potential" we do not have, and that we "put socks on people and feed them". It's all a bit shocking. Then again it is coming from students who have zero experience in our field.

 

[DMStudiezOT]

So, I am a student in my second semester, so I don't have a lot of insight about this, but at a facility i volunteered at the PTs were always making remarks to clients about how they can do what OTs do as well as their job and would even attempt to use ADLs and bill for them. I also have heard stories from a few of my classmates about PTs looking down on OTs because they believe we don't really carry the same value.

 

[Future OT2Be]

My mom is a PT and I am applying to OT school right now. We constantly make jokes about the others profession because we know that they are some what competitive. I have seen PTs say they are better than OTs but I have also seen OTs say they are better than PTs. My mom has remarked that the best jobs she has had was when the OT and her did not care who was better and just worked together. Sometimes she does something the OT usually does if they are busy and sometimes the OT does something that she usually does because she is busy. So it depends on the person. She said she noticed a lot more PTs talking down to OTs when they changed to a mandatory doctorit. So maybe it will change when OT becomes a mandatory doctorate as well.

 

[occupationalguy]

Agreed. Take a look at this: "SloanTriumph said: ↑
The OT i shadowed taught patients how to put on socks all day, and ADL toilet duties. Not really interested in that. Just saying i prefer PT over OT. "

Look at this: "DPTs have a much bigger responsibility in the rehabilitation process than OTs. Most clinics have more PTs hired than OTs. Your first post stated the OTs are gonna beat PTs out, so you're the one trying to make this a competition."

That's in the DPT forum. It's the biggest pile of Horse Sh%&t I've seen in a while.


https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...cnns-list-of-top-100-jobs-in-america.1237658/

 

[DMStudiezOT]

Honestly, I began wanting to go to school for PT. I have never even heard of OT before, but because I was a big athlete I had worked with personal trainers/PTs before. It wasn't until I started volunteering/shadowing for PT hours that I discovered OT and became far more interested in that. I really just like the aspect of treating the entire body/mind and focusing on all aspects of life. With that being said, what would you current OT say to a student about how to manage these types of relationships between PT and OT? I hope to work in a large hospital one day, so I know I will have to collaborate a lot with other disciplines.

 

[NPULFC]

Honestly, I began wanting to go to school for PT. I have never even heard of OT before, but because I was a big athlete I had worked with personal trainers/PTs before. It wasn't until I started volunteering/shadowing for PT hours that I discovered OT and became far more interested in that. I really just like the aspect of treating the entire body/mind and focusing on all aspects of life. With that being said, what would you current OT say to a student about how to manage these types of relationships between PT and OT? I hope to work in a large hospital one day, so I know I will have to collaborate a lot with other disciplines.

Don't worry about this. This person is a jerk and it is easy to be a jerk through the internet. In person I am sure people will be a lot more civil especially in a work setting,

 

[NPULFC]

Agreed. Take a look at this: "SloanTriumph said: ↑
The OT i shadowed taught patients how to put on socks all day, and ADL toilet duties. Not really interested in that. Just saying i prefer PT over OT. "

Look at this: "DPTs have a much bigger responsibility in the rehabilitation process than OTs. Most clinics have more PTs hired than OTs. Your first post stated the OTs are gonna beat PTs out, so you're the one trying to make this a competition."

That's in the DPT forum. It's the biggest pile of Horse Sh%&t I've seen in a while.


https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...cnns-list-of-top-100-jobs-in-america.1237658/

To be fair in that thread you are instigating and being very defensive and attacking people. Regardless, people will be jerks to others especially on the internet. I would not worry about what people say. We all are on here to seek out our passions and sometimes we justify why we like something so much it may come off as condescending to other fields.

 

[sngot]

Like my professors stated in class. There are great therapists and mediocre ones. Who do you want to be? This applies to all type of people. There will be bad PTs and there will be bad OTs too. "Just putting on socks" only matters if it is a meaningful occupation to the client. If they don't need it, then we shouldn't do it. Physical therapy school does provide focus in anatomy and biomechanics- I wouldn't argue with that. Occupational therapy uses variety of approaches- biomechanics, cognitive, socio-emotional, developmental, compensatory... It is very client specific and facility dependent. Our specialty has always been problem solving to support means of occupation. It's our job to advocate and educate others on the merit of OT.

 

[occupationalguy]

To be fair in that thread you are instigating and being very defensive and attacking people. Regardless, people will be jerks to others especially on the internet. I would not worry about what people say. We all are on here to seek out our passions and sometimes we justify why we like something so much it may come off as condescending to other fields.

I'd ask you to actually read the stuff I wrote, nothing I have said was instigating anyone.

 

[slpOT]

That SloaneTriumph guy really needs to work on his then/than grammar rules, especially for a "doctor." Not a comment I was about to add to the PT post. lol

 

[occupationalguy]

That SloaneTriumph guy really needs to work on his then/than grammar rules, especially for a "doctor." Not a comment I was about to add to the PT post. lol

Lol.

 

[ExceptionalSea]

I feel like it's an insecure student thing. I got that a little bit while I was in my program from a couple PT students but I feel like it came down to they just didn't understand what we did. Out in the field I've seen nothing but collaborative relationships and mutual respect. I think when PTs see OTs working with a client on something the PTs didn't learn about in school (e.g. adaptive feeding or something), the lightbulb finally goes off.

And, people are gonna hate me for saying this but... depending on the setting, PTs and OTs really end up doing a lot of the same things. Maybe in 100 years we will merge into one profession, learning all of the biomechanics stuff PTs learn, and all the psych, adaptations, and grading that OTs learn and be one super-therapy-profession from whence you can specialize...

 

[TCMena]

Through volunteering at a snf, the acute/inpatient clients were usually tired. one PT who was contracted came in one day and made a remark about how the OTs were not supposed to cover walking or what PTs do or else the patient would've been willing to get up and work with him. I think in general from what i've seen, both PTs and OTs are willing to work together and what they do overlaps. I asked the OT i work with what he thinks about PTs taking over, and he said if a PT feels s/he can cover an OTs job, the OT has to stand his ground since they are different fields though similar.

 

[occupationalguy]

Both your views are absolutely correct. I've seen us work collaboratively. Students are insecure often and feel a need to put other disciplines down. I have only once heard a PT make a snarky comment about OTs in a clinical setting, and it really seemed to be more of a personal problem than an actual perspective based on objective reality.

The move to a DPT has made some students get a big head. As you said: students. Most PT practitioners have BS or MS degrees.

Some OTs (and I would count myself among them) are quite comortable with anatomy and employ a biomechanical FOR.

 

[nd_dpt]

I somehow managed to wander over to this forum, but I am a current PT student. I think there will always be friendly joking/competition between PTs and OTs, but both are vital to rehabilitation. You guys are wonderful at developing, recovering, and maintaining skills that make daily living possible, where as we are known as specialists in correcting movement dysfunction. I saw a lot of overlap between the two fields as I was shadowing before school, but that is one of the reasons as to why they work so well together in the clinic. Being able to coordinate patient care so that all needs/impairments are met is why we work so closely together. When I first started PT school and met a lot of the OT students, I learned about a lot things I didn't know OTs could do, and in return they also learned a lot about what we do as PTs. Just try to keep an open mind when working with other professions, because interprofessional practice is the best way to ensure that you're providing your patients with the best care possible!

 

[atroposlachesis]

I somehow managed to wander over to this forum, but I am a current PT student. I think there will always be friendly joking/competition between PTs and OTs, but both are vital to rehabilitation. You guys are wonderful at developing, recovering, and maintaining skills that make daily living possible, where as we are known as specialists in correcting movement dysfunction. I saw a lot of overlap between the two fields as I was shadowing before school, but that is one of the reasons as to why they work so well together in the clinic. Being able to coordinate patient care so that all needs/impairments are met is why we work so closely together. When I first started PT school and met a lot of the OT students, I learned about a lot things I didn't know OTs could do, and in return they also learned a lot about what we do as PTs. Just try to keep an open mind when working with other professions, because interprofessional practice is the best way to ensure that you're providing your patients with the best care possible!

Thanks for the wonderful perspective, nd_dpt. I do think PTs are generally perceived as more prestigious than OTs, but that's because their roles are easier for the layperson to understand. OT has the flexibility and psych focus I find more interesting. I think it's especially important to remember that this the medical field. EVERYBODY competes with everyone else. Even if you're a doctor, you're looked down on by docs from more prestigious schools. Go to Wash U? Get looked down on by docs from Harvard. Doc from Harvard? Looked down on by docs from Harvard with PhDs. Doc from Harvard with PhD? Get looked down on by the former high school drop-out who got into business rather than going to school and now makes three times as much with a third of the stress and no debt (okay, less likely to happen these days, but still).

Point is that chasing prestige is an empty game if you're not doing what you love.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

So, I am a student in my second semester, so I don't have a lot of insight about this, but at a facility i volunteered at the PTs were always making remarks to clients about how they can do what OTs do as well as their job and would even attempt to use ADLs and bill for them. I also have heard stories from a few of my classmates about PTs looking down on OTs because they believe we don't really carry the same value.

There's overlap like many fields. Good settings make the overlap work well.

My mom is a PT and I am applying to OT school right now. We constantly make jokes about the others profession because we know that they are some what competitive. I have seen PTs say they are better than OTs but I have also seen OTs say they are better than PTs. My mom has remarked that the best jobs she has had was when the OT and her did not care who was better and just worked together. Sometimes she does something the OT usually does if they are busy and sometimes the OT does something that she usually does because she is busy. So it depends on the person. She said she noticed a lot more PTs talking down to OTs when they changed to a mandatory doctorit. So maybe it will change when OT becomes a mandatory doctorate as well.

There is still a fundamental misunderstanding due to the doctorate elevation. It's due to rehabilitation science competing against procedural medicine to keep people healthy and out of the healthcare system from readmission after care and off of excess narcotics. If other professions elevate without any purpose then outcomes will demonstrate zero value to CMS and insurance which will make it superfluous.

Honestly, I began wanting to go to school for PT. I have never even heard of OT before, but because I was a big athlete I had worked with personal trainers/PTs before. It wasn't until I started volunteering/shadowing for PT hours that I discovered OT and became far more interested in that. I really just like the aspect of treating the entire body/mind and focusing on all aspects of life. With that being said, what would you current OT say to a student about how to manage these types of relationships between PT and OT? I hope to work in a large hospital one day, so I know I will have to collaborate a lot with other disciplines.

That SloaneTriumph guy really needs to work on his then/than grammar rules, especially for a "doctor." Not a comment I was about to add to the PT post. lol

I'm posting a link that focuses on the current science for why timelength developed due to science progression rather than just lobbying and prestige elevation like a DNP degree. Please see below.

This is solid marketing.
http://www.menshealth.com/health/how-physical-therapists-can-help-you/slide/6

I feel like it's an insecure student thing. I got that a little bit while I was in my program from a couple PT students but I feel like it came down to they just didn't understand what we did. Out in the field I've seen nothing but collaborative relationships and mutual respect. I think when PTs see OTs working with a client on something the PTs didn't learn about in school (e.g. adaptive feeding or something), the lightbulb finally goes off.

Good post.

And, people are gonna hate me for saying this but... depending on the setting, PTs and OTs really end up doing a lot of the same things. Maybe in 100 years we will merge into one profession, learning all of the biomechanics stuff PTs learn, and all the psych, adaptations, and grading that OTs learn and be one super-therapy-profession from whence you can specialize...

Hand therapy is an example in which both work postop in a clinic Patients are delegated to whichever profession has a higher reimbursement rate from their insurance to generate more revenue from the clinic head. From a practice perspective there is zero difference. Acute and subacute without a cardiopulmonary unit is another example. One degree with just encompassing subspecialties would be best but tuition would need to decrease at new programs trying to create a merge.

Through volunteering at a snf, the acute/inpatient clients were usually tired. one PT who was contracted came in one day and made a remark about how the OTs were not supposed to cover walking or what PTs do or else the patient would've been willing to get up and work with him. I think in general from what i've seen, both PTs and OTs are willing to work together and what they do overlaps. I asked the OT i work with what he thinks about PTs taking over, and he said if a PT feels s/he can cover an OTs job, the OT has to stand his ground since they are different fields though similar.

In general, yeah. You can only do certain things within a day. Different professionals have to establish their own set of habits as their turf.

I somehow managed to wander over to this forum, but I am a current PT student. I think there will always be friendly joking/competition between PTs and OTs, but both are vital to rehabilitation. You guys are wonderful at developing, recovering, and maintaining skills that make daily living possible, where as we are known as specialists in correcting movement dysfunction. I saw a lot of overlap between the two fields as I was shadowing before school, but that is one of the reasons as to why they work so well together in the clinic. Being able to coordinate patient care so that all needs/impairments are met is why we work so closely together. When I first started PT school and met a lot of the OT students, I learned about a lot things I didn't know OTs could do, and in return they also learned a lot about what we do as PTs. Just try to keep an open mind when working with other professions, because interprofessional practice is the best way to ensure that you're providing your patients with the best care possible!

Good post.

Thanks for the wonderful perspective, nd_dpt. I do think PTs are generally perceived as more prestigious than OTs, but that's because their roles are easier for the layperson to understand. OT has the flexibility and psych focus I find more interesting. I think it's especially important to remember that this the medical field. EVERYBODY competes with everyone else. Even if you're a doctor, you're looked down on by docs from more prestigious schools. Go to Wash U? Get looked down on by docs from Harvard. Doc from Harvard? Looked down on by docs from Harvard with PhDs. Doc from Harvard with PhD? Get looked down on by the former high school drop-out who got into business rather than going to school and now makes three times as much with a third of the stress and no debt (okay, less likely to happen these days, but still).

Point is that chasing prestige is an empty game if you're not doing what you love.

Good post.

 

[occupationalguy]

Lay people may think that PT is more prestigious, but I didn't choose my career based on what uninformed people think. OT and PT have different but at times overlapping domains of practice. I wonder how much prestige matters when a patient has had a stroke or TBI. Bring that PT in and the patient would likely not get the focus in the area needed. Same with a patient with a torn ACL; go to PT.

The doctorate transition is absurd if you ask me, but I suppose it will dissuade more people from pursuing an OT degree, thus limiting the number of practitioners. The law of supply and demand will mean our salaries will be safeguarded from a huge influx of practitioners lowering our pay.

 

[nd_dpt]

Lay people may think that PT is more prestigious, but I didn't choose my career based on what uninformed people think. OT and PT have different but at times overlapping domains of practice. I wonder how much prestige matters when a patient has had a stroke or TBI. Bring that PT in and the patient would likely not get the focus in the area needed. Same with a patient with a torn ACL; go to PT.

The doctorate transition is absurd if you ask me, but I suppose it will dissuade more people from pursuing an OT degree, thus limiting the number of practitioners. The law of supply and demand will mean our salaries will be safeguarded from a huge influx of practitioners lowering our pay.

Be careful with where you are going with that. PT plays an extremely large role in stoke recovery, TBIs, and neuro in general. We don't just work in orthopedics. Like I said, both professions are needed for the best patient care.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Be careful with where you are going with that. PT plays an extremely large role in stoke recovery, TBIs, and neuro in general. We don't just work in orthopedics. Like I said, both professions are needed for the best patient care.

You also left out pelvic health, high level return to play sports, cardiopulmonary following an MI, peds,sensory integration in development, and vestibular and balance (neuro related but different....which is why it's getting labeled directly now)

Who was this at btw? I hope I didn't come off as just general orthopaedic up there

 

[nd_dpt]

You also left out pelvic health, high level return to play sports, cardiopulmonary following an MI, peds,sensory integration in development, and vestibular and balance (neuro related but different....which is why it's getting labeled directly now)

Who was this at btw? I hope I didn't come off as just general orthopaedic up there

This was for occupationalguy. Your post was wonderful! I think this speaks to the general misconceptions we have about each others professions. We seem to underestimate the conditions that our counterparts are able to treat. I encourage everyone here to reach out to other health professions while in school to learn more about the services they provide!

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

This was for occupationalguy. Your post was wonderful! I think this speaks to the general misconceptions we have about each others professions. We seem to underestimate the conditions that our counterparts are able to treat. I encourage everyone here to reach out to other health professions while in school to learn more about the services they provide!

Schools have interdisciplinary work but most students don't care and many find ways to completely skip. I've had good experience personally. A required grade percentage would incentivize people to do it more and then to actually practice correct referral sources when out.

 

[occupationalguy]

This was for occupationalguy. Your post was wonderful! I think this speaks to the general misconceptions we have about each others professions. We seem to underestimate the conditions that our counterparts are able to treat. I encourage everyone here to reach out to other health professions while in school to learn more about the services they provide!

Apologies for my carelessness. It wasn't my intention to imply that PT doesn't play a role in recovery from stroke and TBI. I meant to emphasize that neuro is a central domain of practice for OTs, I should have said that.

I've never personally had anything but positive experiences with PTs I have worked with.

 

[occupationalguy]

You also left out pelvic health, high level return to play sports, cardiopulmonary following an MI, peds,sensory integration in development, and vestibular and balance (neuro related but different....which is why it's getting labeled directly now)

Who was this at btw? I hope I didn't come off as just general orthopaedic up there

Exactly. I chose to be an OT because I was interested in rehabilitation and remediation for patients to master ADLs and IADLs. It is accurate to say that PT is focused on biomechanical remediation, and PTs do not focus on ADLs as much as OT education does. Working with otherwise healthy individuals the PT approach is going to be more useful. In my setting (outpatient neuro) I saw a PT working on gait with a patient who had such poorly managed diabetes / blood glucose levels. With OT intervention to help this patient manage his diabetes he was able to work on strengthening and gait deficits with the PT later. I've also seen my PT colleagues play critical role in patient rehab. That's why we work together.

If I were a benevolent monarch I would squish the two fields together: a degree that emphasizes the strengths of both of our fields is certainly possible. In today's climate we would make such a field a post doctorate or something; meanwhile in Europe physiotherapy is a bachelor's degree still.