So despite all these issues with Crna's are Gas docs still making 350K?

[HEME-ONC]

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I have heard that salaries are dropping. And the demand for Gas docs is dropping. What are some of the things a Gas doc can do if he is let off from his job to make an income?

Thanks

 

[jetproppilot]

I have heard that salaries are dropping. And the demand for Gas docs is dropping. What are some of the things a Gas doc can do if he is let off from his job to make an income?

Thanks

There is not a hospital in any metropolitan area or suburb that will resort to MDA-less anesthesia in this very litiginous society.

 

[jetproppilot]

There is not a hospital in any metropolitan area or suburb that will resort to MDA-less anesthesia in this very litiginous society.

In very small towns, some hospitals are MDA-less, but if they could have an MD, they would.
Don't think para-professional encroachment is unique to anesthesia- internal medicine, family medicine, pediatrics, ophtho, ortho (physical therapists and rehab), etc all have the same issue.

Radiology is undergoing an interesting transition- some hospitals are beginning to ship diagnostics to Australia and the like with computer technology being what it is- I don't know how ubiquitous this trend is, but I know of more than one hospital doing it, albeit small hospitals.

 

[VentdependenT]

You can sell your plasma I suppose.

Make movies on your super 8 and start an internet site featuring yourself selling your plasma. Members can watch you donate your plasma naked.

Open a mini-golf course.

See if the hospital giftshop is hiring. If the answer is yes tell them you will whittle keepsakes in the corner and sell them for a nominal fee.

Buy lotto tickets.

Go for the guiness book record for "walking down an up-escilator for the longest recorded time ever." That ought to bring in some serious bank.

Invent a new form of pizza.

Perhaps you can go back an do another residency. Thats always fun.

Lastly, you may wish to attend law school as a back up.

Good luck!

 

[jetproppilot]

I have heard that salaries are dropping. And the demand for Gas docs is dropping. What are some of the things a Gas doc can do if he is let off from his job to make an income?

Thanks

Again, 😳 , I really don't know where you are getting your information. There are not enough anesthesiologists to go around and that is not going to change for some time.

Hey, I heard Brad Pitt dropped Jennifer Aniston like a stone for Angelina Jolie- whats your take on that?

 

[jetproppilot]

You can sell your plasma I suppose.

Make movies on your super 8 and start an internet site featuring yourself selling your plasma. Members can watch you donate your plasma naked.

Open a mini-golf course.

See if the hospital giftshop is hiring. If the answer is yes tell them you will whittle keepsakes in the corner and sell them for a nominal fee.

Buy lotto tickets.

Go for the guiness book record for "walking down an up-escilator for the longest recorded time ever." That ought to bring in some serious bank.

Invent a new form of pizza.

Perhaps you can go back an do another residency. Thats always fun.

Lastly, you may wish to attend law school as a back up.

Good luck!

HEY VENT MY BOY YA GOT ANY EXTRA HANES CUZ I JUST WET MYSELF READING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ThinkFast007]

Again, 😳 , I really don't know where you are getting your information. There are not enough anesthesiologists to go around and that is not going to change for some time.

Hey, I heard Brad Pitt dropped Jennifer Aniston like a stone for Angelina Jolie- whats your take on that?

Jet please dont tell me you just found this out Come on man, you seemed like one of those guys that would have a TV in the OR instead of one of those BP monitoring machines.

By the way you guys should check out Mr. and Mrs. Smith ( Jet it's with both Brad Pitt and Ang) it starts today. Decent movie. But as most movies that have Brad in it are, this movie simply stretches reality waaaaaaaaay too out.

later

 

[HEME-ONC]

Again, 😳 , I really don't know where you are getting your information. There are not enough anesthesiologists to go around and that is not going to change for some time.

Hey, I heard Brad Pitt dropped Jennifer Aniston like a stone for Angelina Jolie- whats your take on that?

Why bother with all the hollywood gossip when I get it all here!

 

[Laryngospasm]

I have heard that salaries are dropping. And the demand for Gas docs is dropping. What are some of the things a Gas doc can do if he is let off from his job to make an income?

Thanks

Anethesiology is so, like, yesterday. Like its, totally not hot.

You should do a little research of your own.
Research is what people used to do before the internet made them lazy. Now they just post question after question incessantly on boards like this, where they expect other people to do their research for them, when a single faq could answer all their questions.

 

[jetproppilot]

Jet please dont tell me you just found this out Come on man, you seemed like one of those guys that would have a TV in the OR instead of one of those BP monitoring machines.

By the way you guys should check out Mr. and Mrs. Smith ( Jet it's with both Brad Pitt and Ang) it starts today. Decent movie. But as most movies that have Brad in it are, this movie simply stretches reality waaaaaaaaay too out.

later

Naw, that was justa little fun diversion from the incessantly burdensome when it comes to the same questions over and over...at least they could phrase it in a more palatable fashion than "My father's cousin is a CRNA, and his son, who went to anesthesia residency but then decided to become a CRNA,..." geez, some of this is worse than the gossip magazines, huh?
BTW, why would a dude leave a hot, relatively unscathed woman for a chick who has had Billy Bob Thornton's, uhhh, well you get the point. Beats me.

Looks like a great flick in any event.

 

[deleted59964]

BTW, why would a dude leave a hot, relatively unscathed woman for a chick who has had Billy Bob Thornton's, uhhh, well you get the point. Beats me.

Looks like a great flick in any event.

have you SEEN her? 👍

 

[bigdan]

yeah...I'd take the "scathed" Jolie over unscathed Aniston...and I'd take her right now!

dc

 

[jetproppilot]

yeah...I'd take the "scathed" Jolie over unscathed Aniston...and I'd take her right now!

dc

Don't get me wrong, shes hot by any standard. Just the Billy Bob Thornton thing....makes you wonder where else shes been...ya'll can take her. I'll stick with my wife.

 

[militarymd]

I have heard that salaries are dropping. And the demand for Gas docs is dropping. What are some of the things a Gas doc can do if he is let off from his job to make an income?

Thanks

There certainly are hospitals without anesthesiologists (I hate the term MDA....that's what CRNAs call us), but these rural hospitals would jump at a chance to have a good anestheiologist on board.

Unfortunately, there aren't that many GOOD anesthesiologists. There are a lot of riff raffs out there who never became BC, and who function essentially as CRNAs.

A lot of the problems of anesthesiology is because of the riff raff.

Take a look at gaswork......and see if there is no demand for anesthesiologist.

 

[ThinkFast007]

Naw, that was justa little fun diversion from the incessantly burdensome when it comes to the same questions over and over...at least they could phrase it in a more palatable fashion than "My father's cousin is a CRNA, and his son, who went to anesthesia residency but then decided to become a CRNA,..." geez, some of this is worse than the gossip magazines, huh?
BTW, why would a dude leave a hot, relatively unscathed woman for a chick who has had Billy Bob Thornton's, uhhh, well you get the point. Beats me.

Looks like a great flick in any event.

I know you were kidding..

but, if the q on this forum is between scathed vs unscathed.....and if the choice seems equivocal, why not just take both

oh wait what was the original post again :

 

[Frank Rizzo]

I have heard that salaries are dropping. And the demand for Gas docs is dropping. What are some of the things a Gas doc can do if he is let off from his job to make an income?

Thanks

I don't know... I can think of only 3 viable options:

1. collect cans/bottles(theres a few empties on in my trash can if you feel like going dumpster diving later on)
2. sell yourself on the street
3. paper route

That should cover you.

 

[jwk]

Unfortunately, there aren't that many GOOD anesthesiologists. There are a lot of riff raffs out there who never became BC, and who function essentially as CRNAs.

A lot of the problems of anesthesiology is because of the riff raff.

Really? Probably 95% of the anesthesiologists I have worked with have been great. Most of those were board certified - only the ones right out of residency were not, and they all ended up getting boarded, although some took a couple of tries at the orals. Most bigger hospitals and groups won't be hiring those not already board certified or in the process.

 

[OrthoFixation]

From my large sample size of 1 friend that just completed his Anesth Residency, he got $350K. That doesn't sound like a decline just yet.

I have hear that Pain Doc's really make the bank.

 

[militarymd]

Really? Probably 95% of the anesthesiologists I have worked with have been great. Most of those were board certified - only the ones right out of residency were not, and they all ended up getting boarded, although some took a couple of tries at the orals. Most bigger hospitals and groups won't be hiring those not already board certified or in the process.

Look at overall pass rates. There are a lot who never become BC...where do you think they wind up??? They certainly don't stop practicing. I have 2 in my group right now who have been told become BC or leave.

 

[timtye78]

What I am hearing from Texas through Oklahoma starting pay is roughly $285K-350K (big metro areas) plus if you go suburbs/small town you can get $450K to start. Partner level pay in same region $400-600K for general anesthesia.

Also saw a listing for Texas located pain management starting pay $700K last year.

In addition, some places are offering CA-2 and CA-3s stipends of 40Kplus. Also hear of nice relocation expense budgets as well as loan repayment options.

Since each one of these situations are anywhere from 5X-10X what I make now, I can't even comprehend having cash like that at this point.

Did someone call this a 'dying' 'decreasing demand' field? hmm...I'm not very worried about it myself.

 

[VentdependenT]

Look at overall pass rates. There are a lot who never become BC...where do you think they wind up??? They certainly don't stop practicing. I have 2 in my group right now who have been told become BC or leave.

What are the overall pass rates?

Don't we have to get recertfied every 10 years or something now?

 

[militarymd]

What I am hearing from Texas through Oklahoma starting pay is roughly $285K-350K (big metro areas) plus if you go suburbs/small town you can get $450K to start. Partner level pay in same region $400-600K for general anesthesia.

Also saw a listing for Texas located pain management starting pay $700K last year.

In addition, some places are offering CA-2 and CA-3s stipends of 40Kplus. Also hear of nice relocation expense budgets as well as loan repayment options.

Since each one of these situations are anywhere from 5X-10X what I make now, I can't even comprehend having cash like that at this point.

Did someone call this a 'dying' 'decreasing demand' field? hmm...I'm not very worried about it myself.

Just be aware that as your income increases, so does your taxes.

 

[ThinkFast007]

Just be aware that as your income increases, so does your taxes.

isnt that why we should vote republican 😀

 

[sevoflurane]

What are the overall pass rates?

Don't we have to get recertfied every 10 years or something now?

Yep every 10 years unless you graduated before 1996 (I think it's '96)

I think the pass rate is high 60's

 

[VentdependenT]

Yep every 10 years unless you graduated before 1996 (I think it's '96)

I think the pass rate is high 60's

High 60's?!?! Holy poop man. What is the deal with that. There is plenty of review material out there, review courses, even all that "big blue" jazz.

 

[militarymd]

I was certified in 1997, and I'm not required to recert. I think that was the last year, and it is not going to be called recert for much longer. It is going to be called MOCA....essentially CME to maintain certification.

My CCM boards were issued in 2001, and they will lapse in 2011 unless I recert.

Overall pass rates is in the 60 to 80 percent range overall...written and orals....that is for first timers....but there are a lot of folks who never get certified.....

 

[militarymd]

Some folks are just not capable.....what should we do with them????

Let them continue with practice???

Make them do something else???

Make them CRNAs???


Make them residents forever???


What does everyone think?

 

[MedicinePowder]

if they were able to get into medical school and through residency then they have to have the capacity to become BC. its a matter of getting off their ass and studying for it--give them the option of getting BC or getting terminated. if that's not enough motivation then they need to look for a job elsewhere.

 

[militarymd]

if they were able to get into medical school and through residency then they have to have the capacity to become BC. its a matter of getting off their ass and studying for it--give them the option of getting BC or getting terminated. if that's not enough motivation then they need to look for a job elsewhere.

I have an associate who has failed the written exam 6 times. The last 2 times, she took a month off to study. Our group has decided to give her 3 more years.....

 

[VentdependenT]

Yep every 10 years unless you graduated before 1996 (I think it's '96)

I think the pass rate is high 60's

High 60's?!?! Holy poop man. What is the deal with that. There is plenty of review material out there, review courses, even all that "big blue" jazz.

 

[sevoflurane]

That's the word on the interview trail. Maybe some one can back me up on those numbers, but I've heard those numbers more than once. It's going to be a hard test.... especially the oral part. I've heard miller and and stoeltling are still giving orals.... how would you like to walk into that fiasco.... 😱

Getting step III out of the way next monday and tuesday so I can focus on ABA for the next 4 years. I don't know how the written is going to be, but... fick equation, alveolar gas equation, difference between a Bain circuit and a Mapleson F System, pharmacokinetics of a billion drugs.... It all sounds a little intimidating from where I am right now. I've taken a good look at some of the bigger anesthesia texts, and the pysio in them is insane... It'll be something else to have all that crammed into my calvarium at least once (or should I say q10 years) in my life.

"Big blue jazz" = audio tapes or something like that????

 

[midwestern]

So, are any programs known for better preparing their residents for the boards?

 

[Tenesma]

militarymd.... you gotta be kidding me about your associate.... Is the group that desperate that they are willing to keep somebody like that? I mean it doesn't take a miracle to pass the test... she obviously has huge knowledge gaps, and I would consider that unsafe for the patient.... Unless her only role is in doing the OR schedule...

 

[jwk]

Unfortunately, there aren't that many GOOD anesthesiologists. There are a lot of riff raffs out there who never became BC, and who function essentially as CRNAs.

A lot of the problems of anesthesiology is because of the riff raff.

I have an associate who has failed the written exam 6 times. The last 2 times, she took a month off to study. Our group has decided to give her 3 more years.....

So where is the "riff raff"? 😉

 

[militarymd]

So where is the "riff raff"? 😉

Everywhere.

and yes, we are desperate. I'm trying to hire right now.

 

[BigPimpin]

So if an MD anesthesiologist is an MDA...does that make a DO anesthesiologist a DOA??!?!? Yikes!

Sorry. Just a nervous attempt at humor while I wait on internship to start. I bet that joke's been made a few times. So, back to my Spurs vs. Pistons.

BP

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Everywhere.

and yes, we are desperate. I'm trying to hire right now.

What city? I've got two cardiac fellows who will be looking soon for positions.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Everywhere.

and yes, we are desperate. I'm trying to hire right now.

What city? I've got two cardiac fellows who will be looking soon for positions.

 

[militarymd]

Huntsville, AL....We are going to start a CV program, but no hearts yet.

 

[GasEmDee]

militarymd.... you gotta be kidding me about your associate.... Is the group that desperate that they are willing to keep somebody like that? I mean it doesn't take a miracle to pass the test... she obviously has huge knowledge gaps, and I would consider that unsafe for the patient.... Unless her only role is in doing the OR schedule...

I'm sure it doesnt take a miracle, but why such low pass rates? 60% is awfully low!

 

[SuperflyMD]

yeah...I'd take the "scathed" Jolie over unscathed Aniston...and I'd take her right now!

dc

Over, under, side by side...

 

[CambieMD]

Why are the pass rates in anesthesiology so low. Is the material that challenging. Do residency programs not prepare their residents adequately enough to pass their boards. The pass rate for the boards in most specialties seems to be greater than 80%.


CambieMD

 

[Justin4563]

there are many many things wrong with the field of anesthesia let me tell you.. Im fresh out.. totally independent.. I do anesthesia for doctors in their offices.. because i cant get an independent gig at a hospital.. They wont let you.. You have to be somebodies bitch... confroming to hours etc.. Im not a mcdonalds employee.. Second, jet, dont think for a second that if hospitals could get away and surgeons for that matter could get away with CRNAs they would.. regardless as to where it is.. in the middle of NYC or in the middle of sioux falls, sd. Just to save a buck. SO dont think you are so high and mighty.. thirdly,I would say most of the problems with anesthesia is not the (riff raff)average foreign medical graduate who works hard at passing his boards and raising a family but he cant because the americans wont let him pass his orals because he has an accent and its harder for them to express themselves.. The problem starts from the top.... the all caucasian (im caucasion) yale, columbia, brown types who think they are special because they have an office and go to the OR once a week, write a book chapter, sell out their colleagues in court and thumb their nose at everyone. make the boards harder to pass, make getting into a partnership difficult.. Snobs basically.. Thats not even scratching the problems surface.. I did not even mention the crna issue..

 

[Justin4563]

the pass rate for the anesthesia writtens is about 70 percent and much lower for repeat takers.. it is so low because they make the exam questions purposefully hard for no reason at all.. Seriously, Im board certified, and when i read these questions I cant believe the deceptions written into the question.. You dont really have to be that smart to figure out whats going on.. Its just like the TEE certification exam.. The first bunch who took it it was not so hard. and the more and more people who got on the board to make the questions the harder and harder the exam became. Its human nature with these people.. ...

I swear if ACLS meant anything, which of course it does, it would be impossible to pass, Now ask yourself, what sense would that make.. All that is needed is showing you know the material. No tricks or deception is needed..

 

[toughlife]

there are many many things wrong with the field of anesthesia let me tell you.. Im fresh out.. totally independent.. I do anesthesia for doctors in their offices.. because i cant get an independent gig at a hospital.. They wont let you.. You have to be somebodies bitch... confroming to hours etc.. Im not a mcdonalds employee.. Second, jet, dont think for a second that if hospitals could get away and surgeons for that matter could get away with CRNAs they would.. regardless as to where it is.. in the middle of NYC or in the middle of sioux falls, sd. Just to save a buck. SO dont think you are so high and mighty.. thirdly,I would say most of the problems with anesthesia is not the (riff raff)average foreign medical graduate who works hard at passing his boards and raising a family but he cant because the americans wont let him pass his orals because he has an accent and its harder for them to express themselves.. The problem starts from the top.... the all caucasian (im caucasion) yale, columbia, brown types who think they are special because they have an office and go to the OR once a week, write a book chapter, sell out their colleagues in court and thumb their nose at everyone. make the boards harder to pass, make getting into a partnership difficult.. Snobs basically.. Thats not even scratching the problems surface.. I did not even mention the crna issue..

Can you elaborate a bit more about this issue of you not being able to work at a hospital independently? Are you saying that unless you join a group it would be difficult for any new grad to make it on their own? This is important stuff to know for those considering going into the field. The last thing I want is for some cowboy to determine whether I can work in a hospital or not. I am one who hates to play games and if this is the crap one is to expect in the real world, I may reconsider my choice of specialty.

 

[juddson]

Can you elaborate a bit more about this issue of you not being able to work at a hospital independently? Are you saying that unless you join a group it would be difficult for any new grad to make it on their own unless you join a group?
This is important stuff to know for those considering going into the field. The last thing I want is for some cowboy to determine whether I can work in a hospital or not. I am one who hates to play games and if this is the crap one is to expect in the real world, I may reconsider my choice of specialty.

Yes yes. I am exquisitely interested in hearing what further you have to say about this as well. Please elaborate and be specific, if you don't mind. Are you kept out of the hospitals as an independant because the groups already serving that hospital are conspiring to keep you out, or does the hospital really have an aversion? Also, please discuss the CRNA issue. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about this as well.

Finally, are you a JD/MD as it appears from your signature? Just curious.

Judd

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Justin, there are plenty of hospitals where you can practice as an independent. Your JD degree would make you a very attractive asset to most hospitals as well.

 

[Justin4563]

Yes yes. I am exquisitely interested in hearing what further you have to say about this as well. Please elaborate and be specific, if you don't mind. Are you kept out of the hospitals as an independant because the groups already serving that hospital are conspiring to keep you out, or does the hospital really have an aversion? Also, please discuss the CRNA issue. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about this as well.

Finally, are you a JD/MD as it appears from your signature? Just curious.

Judd

Hi Doctors,

First of all I am not a juris Doctor.. JD are my initials..............

Second, there are NOT plenty of hospitals that you can work independently. Absolutely NOT. All of the hospitals in my area and most areas are served by groups who have exclusive contracts with the hospital. WHich means, NOBODY can provide anesthesia services at most hospitals unless they are part of the groups in place. Try calling medical staff offices and saying if you can get on staff at the hospital as an anesthesiologist.. They will say call the group.
These groups typically have contracts with you and of course they low ball you big time. they extend your partnership track etc. and you have no choice if you want to work at a big hospital because all of them have similar set ups. So there is absolutely no going on your own. really sucks.. i would not have gone into anesthesia if i Knew this. .These are the things you need to know prior to selecting a specialty.

The way it should be is that you do a case and you bill for the case and you get reimbursed for said case. BUt the group bills for said case and typically return you 30-40 percent of said reimbursement whatever contract you signed. SO joe group partner is making money on you and he has not even done any of the work. Meanwhile you are working your ass off for peanuts compared to what he/ or she is making. ANd they say well we pay your health insurance and malpractice.. How expensive can that be? Just get your hands out of my pocket and business. These are serious things to think about. We are physicians because we worked hard and trained hard for it, and we should have the autonomy. These groups have you under their thumb. You have to clear almost everything with them, even probably when you can go to the bathroom.. so I think anesthesia groups is a BAD BAD thing for anesthesiologists and a good good thing for hospitals and surgeons. which is prob why they exist.. this is why i am independent going to the offices making about 250 doing it with about 10 weeks vacation and total autonomy. But i will never work at a hospital which sucks because I was very adept at doing the big inpatient cases..

 

[Justin4563]

the crna issue is a seperate animal.

They are not physicians and they will never be. I dont work with crnas so i cannot tell you how they are at all.

BUt i suppose their argument is that it basically does not matter who gives anesthesia so long as the patient is alive at the end of the case.. WHich i suppose can be easily defended.. Youll meet some surgeons who wouldnt even think twice if you had a monkey sitting on the stool turning the dials..

 

[UTSouthwestern]

There are still many hospitals in the DFW area that allow independent practice. I thought about doing that for while because I wanted to run my own business, but later changed my mind. If you get tired of where you are, come to Dallas and sign up at Baylor Dallas, Baylor Plano, etc. I see and talk to the independents and all seem to be happy and busy.