So how does research work in undergraduate years?

[SilentAnon_404]

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Hi guys,
I need some help drafting my 4-5 year plan before applying to medical school. My college will start in fall. During orientation for biological sciences, they didn’t go over in too much detail how to apply for research (college: UC Davis).

So I need to know- how do I do it? I am really interested in research, and I have prior experience doing research in chemistry with a college professor during the summer of my 11th grade (program: Project SEED).
But other than that, I have no other prior research experience. Will that be a problem?

And then the main question: how do I do research? I’m considering doing it the 3rd quarter of my freshmen year. The classes that I signed up for are Math 21A, Che 2A, and Environmental Design (elective).
I’ve heard people say that you need to be on a professor’s good terms and then ask them. How do I approach this? Lol.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[907914]

Hi guys,
I need some help drafting my 4-5 year plan before applying to medical school. My college will start in fall. During orientation for biological sciences, they didn’t go over in too much detail how to apply for research (college: UC Davis).

So I need to know- how do I do it? I am really interested in research, and I have prior experience doing research in chemistry with a college professor during the summer of my 11th grade (program: Project SEED).
But other than that, I have no other prior research experience. Will that be a problem?

And then the main question: how do I do research? I’m considering doing it the 3rd quarter of my freshmen year. The classes that I signed up for are Math 21A, Che 2A, and Environmental Design (elective).
I’ve heard people say that you need to be on a professor’s good terms and then ask them. How do I approach this? Lol.

Thanks for any advice.

Literally go to a prof whose research topic you enjoy (on faculty page), preferably one that you have had a class with and gotten to know, and literally just say "Hello, Dr.SayMyName, I would like to know if you have any openings to allow undergraduates to participate in your XYZ lab? I am really interested in the topic of poopy-doodoo and would very much like to be a part of your lab if you are so inclined to allow me."

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Literally go to a prof whose research topic you enjoy (on faculty page), preferably one that you have had a class with and gotten to know, and literally just say "Hello, Dr.SayMyName, I would like to know if you have any openings to allow undergraduates to participate in your XYZ lab? I am really interested in the topic of poopy-doodoo and would very much like to be a part of your lab if you are so inclined to allow me."

Nice, so it is that simple. The problem is, there are gonna be 400-500 people in my general chem class. I don’t know how I would get to know the professor well like that.

 

[907914]

Nice, so it is that simple. The problem is, there are gonna be 400-500 people in my general chem class. I don’t know how I would get to know the professor well like that.

Go to office hours. Alternatively, ask your university biology and/or chemistry office if there are faculty looking for undergrads. You will be more effective by doing this after having been successful in a few science classes with lab.

Further still, if you just surf through the faculty pages on their websites they will likely specifically state they are looking.

 

[Kardio]

Nice, so it is that simple. The problem is, there are gonna be 400-500 people in my general chem class. I don’t know how I would get to know the professor well like that.

Try to be a sociable and likeable person in general. Be interested in their work and excited at the prospect of helping. Positive attitude matters when it's all you've got to offer (without previouse coursework or lab work).

One thing I wish I knew as a new college student:
When going about things like this, it's better to air on the side of being a little annoying than to be a silent face in the crowd.

This is particularly true if you are somewhat introverted or reserved.

 

[907914]

little annoying than to be a silent face in the crowd.

Can confirm. Regardless of class size, I am a 5 questions per class period kind of guy in an “I’m curious” kind of way as opposed to a gunner kind of way

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Go to office hours. Alternatively, ask your university biology and/or chemistry office if there are faculty looking for undergrads. You will be more effective by doing this after having been successful in a few science classes with lab.

Further still, if you just surf through the faculty pages on their websites they will likely specifically state they are looking.

Do you think they will offer a research position the first year of college? Assuming I do well in class? (Which I think I will; isn’t general chem like AP chem?)

Try to be a sociable and likeable person in general. Be interested in their work and excited at the prospect of helping. Positive attitude matters when it's all you've got to offer (without previouse coursework or lab work).

One thing I wish I knew as a new college student:
When going about things like this, it's better to air on the side of being a little annoying than to be a silent face in the crowd.

This is particularly true if you are somewhat introverted or reserved.

I’m reserved initially, but when I get to know people, I’m moderately sociable. So when you do research, are you just helping them out or do you get to do your own thing too?

 

[907914]

Do you think they will offer a research position the first year of college? Assuming I do well in class? (Which I think I will; isn’t general chem like AP chem?)

I’m reserved initially, but when I get to know people, I’m moderately sociable. So when you do research, are you just helping them out or do you get to do your own thing too?

First year, you do what they tell you. May be under a graduate student, may be under a prof. Second year, if they like you and/or you are proficient, you will likely still do their projects but to the extent where you may be able to sit down and throw ideas their way. And it may be as simple as they tell you what needs done and they don’t supervise you because you know what you are doing. Sometime in the second year or maybe in the third year, if you have gotten involved in the grant writing process and have acquired the funding, you may be able to pursue your own project as it relates to their areas of interest.

 

[Kardio]

I’m reserved initially, but when I get to know people, I’m moderately sociable. So when you do research, are you just helping them out or do you get to do your own thing too?

Work on coming out of your shell. It will help to become comfortable introducing yourself and coming across as a kind and curious person. The earlier you find a mentor in this arena, the better.

Research as a college student usually starts with helping out someone else. If you can eventually take on your own project, that's great. It's always a team effort.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

@MemeLord @Kardio
Firstly, thanks for the answers. Another question I have: do medical schools have any requirements/preferences on the type of research?
How much is the average? How successful does the research have to be?

 

[The Re-Animator]

Nice, so it is that simple. The problem is, there are gonna be 400-500 people in my general chem class. I don’t know how I would get to know the professor well like that.

I recently made a post with virtually the same question! I'm in my first few years of undergrad, no prior research experience, hadn't taken a single class with the biochem professor that I reached out to, haven't taken an ochem class yet, but still got a position doing biosensor research.

Pretty much what I did:
1. Find a subject that you're genuinely interested in.
2. Schedule an appointment with a professor conducting interesting research within that subject.
3. Send an email prior to meeting with that professor concisely laying out why you want to do research under them. Attach your resume or CV. My resume has basically nothing impressive on it but scribing, volunteering, prior retail jobs, and a short profile of what I'm doing and why. Bonus points if it has a photo of you.
4. When you meet with that professor, know what they're researching and why. Ask questions about prior research. Explain that you are pursuing research because you are genuinely interested in it. Communicate that you've set adequate time aside weekly to spend in the lab.

That's basically what I did. I took one of the professor's previously published papers, annotated it and made up a list of like 10ish questions. It demonstrated that although I have not taken biochem, I am still capable of understanding the research/it's methods prn and I am interested in his research enough to spend time to annotate a paper/do external research to understand it.

 

[907914]

@MemeLord @Kardio
Firstly, thanks for the answers. Another question I have: do medical schools have any requirements/preferences on the type of research?
How much is the average? How successful does the research have to be?

Average number of research hours is 1,251 - however, keep in mind that this is very much skewed by the 5-10% of applicants who are VERY research oriented with several thousand hours. The median is likely closer to 300 hours. Wet lab research will be preferred at a few schools, however any research is good. Success is not necessary as the goal is to show you know how to Science. However, posters look good and publications look great.

 

[Kardio]

@MemeLord @Kardio
Firstly, thanks for the answers. Another question I have: do medical schools have any requirements/preferences on the type of research?
How much is the average? How successful does the research have to be?

1. My experience has been that wet-lab work is preferable (i.e., compared to data science or literature review)
2 & 3. Most students will have done some research. The quantity is up to you - the numeric averages are googlable. Do your best to contribute to whatever work you become involved in. Like @MemeLord beautifully explained, tangible evidence of research productivity (posters & pubs) look great - but aren't necessary (and are largely a matter of luck). This is one activity you should really avoid taking a checkbox approach to. Try to get something out of it!

I don't have experience doing this, but leading an independent project might make the odds of a poster or pub go up tremedously. The earlier in college you start any form of research, the more background you'll have to eventually take on your own project.

 

[The Re-Animator]

And then the main question: how do I do research? I’m considering doing it the 3rd quarter of my freshmen year.

Not sure if you meant only do research during your third quarter or start doing research during your third quarter, but in case you didn't mean the latter: I've gathered that most undergrad researchers want at least a year long commitment to their lab (due to training and integration into the lab lasting a few months) w/ a weekly commitment of 8-12 hours.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Very useful info guys, I’m already feeling better prepared.

I recently made a post with virtually the same question! I'm in my first few years of undergrad, no prior research experience, hadn't taken a single class with the biochem professor that I reached out to, haven't taken an ochem class yet, but still got a position doing biosensor research.

Pretty much what I did:
1. Find a subject that you're genuinely interested in.
2. Schedule an appointment with a professor conducting interesting research within that subject.
3. Send an email prior to meeting with that professor concisely laying out why you want to do research under them. Attach your resume or CV. My resume has basically nothing impressive on it but scribing, volunteering, prior retail jobs, and a short profile of what I'm doing and why. Bonus points if it has a photo of you.
4. When you meet with that professor, know what they're researching and why. Ask questions about prior research. Explain that you are pursuing research because you are genuinely interested in it. Communicate that you've set adequate time aside weekly to spend in the lab.

That's basically what I did. I took one of the professor's previously published papers, annotated it and made up a list of like 10ish questions. It demonstrated that although I have not taken biochem, I am still capable of understanding the research/it's methods prn and I am interested in his research enough to spend time to annotate a paper/do external research to understand it.

Thanks for including your experience. As for the resume part, I should include stuff I did in high school then? I didn’t volunteer or do any jobs unfortunately, but I had one research experience.

Not sure if you meant only do research during your third quarter or start doing research during your third quarter, but in case you didn't mean the latter: I've gathered that most undergrad researchers want at least a year long commitment to their lab (due to training and integration into the lab lasting a few months) w/ a weekly commitment of 8-12 hours.

I meant start it. I do like research so I plan on doing a lot of it.

Average number of research hours is 1,251 - however, keep in mind that this is very much skewed by the 5-10% of applicants who are VERY research oriented with several thousand hours. The median is likely closer to 300 hours. Wet lab research will be preferred at a few schools, however any research is good. Success is not necessary as the goal is to show you know how to Science. However, posters look good and publications look great.

So I’m to be a research-oriented applicant, how many hours should I aim for? 1,800-2,000, I’m guessing? What is a wet-lab? Like a regular bio/chem lab type of environment?

1. My experience has been that wet-lab work is preferable (i.e., compared to data science or literature review)
2 & 3. Most students will have done some research. The quantity is up to you - the numeric averages are googlable. Do your best to contribute to whatever work you become involved in. Like @MemeLord beautifully explained, tangible evidence of research productivity (posters & pubs) look great - but aren't necessary (and are largely a matter of luck). This is one activity you should really avoid taking a checkbox approach to. Try to get something out of it!

I don't have experience doing this, but leading an independent project might make the odds of a poster or pub go up tremedously. The earlier in college you start any form of research, the more background you'll have to eventually take on your own project.

Thanks! I guess I’ll start research this year once I’m comfortable with college rigor. Btw, if I choose to do heavy in research, can I do the checkbox approach to everything else? I feel like shadowing would be very boring since you don’t get to do anything.
And what is the established/agreed-upon “checkbox” for a successful med school applicant? So I can focus on one thing and maintain a standard in others.

 

[907914]

Very useful info guys, I’m already feeling better prepared.

Thanks for including your experience. As for the resume part, I should include stuff I did in high school then? I didn’t volunteer or do any jobs unfortunately, but I had one research experience.

I meant start it. I do like research so I plan on doing a lot of it.

So I’m to be a research-oriented applicant, how many hours should I aim for? 1,800-2,000, I’m guessing? What is a wet-lab? Like a regular bio/chem lab type of environment?

Thanks! I guess I’ll start research this year once I’m comfortable with college rigor. Btw, if I choose to do heavy in research, can I do the checkbox approach to everything else? I feel like shadowing would be very boring since you don’t get to do anything.
And what is the established/agreed-upon “checkbox” for a successful med school applicant? So I can focus on one thing and maintain a standard in others.

Wet lab is pipettes, gels, cells, chemicals, cells yadda yadda. The fun stuff. If you intend on being research oriented, you will still need to be doing everything else in addition to it. Honestly, start now at 4 hours a week every other week (alternating weeks with one at clinical and one at non clinical) with the same organization from now until application and you will have at least 300 hours in each clinical and non clinical. After three years, you should also have leadership roles if you do it right.

 

[Kardio]

Thanks! I guess I’ll start research this year once I’m comfortable with college rigor. Btw, if I choose to do heavy in research, can I do the checkbox approach to everything else? I feel like shadowing would be very boring since you don’t get to do anything.
And what is the established/agreed-upon “checkbox” for a successful med school applicant? So I can focus on one thing and maintain a standard in others.

Ideally, nothing would be a checkbox. However there are things that you functionally have to do - and you will inevitably get more out of some experiences than others.

Have the right ECs. You need ECs. There are tons of people on SDN who bitch and moan about them. Well, tough. Each school gets thousands of apps for some 100-250 seats. How do we winnow down the pool? The answer is something that hyperachievers with no people skills hate hearing: you have display your altruism and humanity, your willingness to serve others, you know what you're getting into, and that you know what a doctor's day is like.

If you shadow and find it boring, medicine might not be for you.

Common ECs people have are:
Clinical Volunteering
Nonclinical Volunteering
Shadowing
Paid Clinical Work
Research

 

[907914]

If you shadow and find it boring, medicine might not be for you.

I concur. Shadowing was some of the highlights of my premed experience, even if it was the shortest time commitment. Whether autopsies, the OR, slides, vasectomies, colonoscopies, Hand burns, or UTIs...it was all new and exciting.

 

[The Re-Animator]

Thanks for including your experience. As for the resume part, I should include stuff I did in high school then? I didn’t volunteer or do any jobs unfortunately, but I had one research experience.

Because you've just graduated high school, I feel like that's appropriate. Maybe just what you've done in the past two years & anything notable (like that research experience).

So I’m to be a research-oriented applicant, how many hours should I aim for? 1,800-2,000, I’m guessing? What is a wet-lab? Like a regular bio/chem lab type of environment?

If you plan on doing research your entire undergraduate career, I think a couple thousand hours wouldn't be too difficult to obtain. Yeah, wet lab is basically bio/chem labs. I've seen other pre-meds do clinical research as well, but I've read that it's not looked on as favorably by research-oriented schools.

Thanks! I guess I’ll start research this year once I’m comfortable with college rigor. Btw, if I choose to do heavy in research, can I do the checkbox approach to everything else? I feel like shadowing would be very boring since you don’t get to do anything.
And what is the established/agreed-upon “checkbox” for a successful med school applicant? So I can focus on one thing and maintain a standard in others.

I'm glad you know that there needs to be an adjustment period before taking on ECs 👍 .

Avoid the checkbox approach, period. This is where time management comes into play. Do volunteering about something you genuinely care about for as long as you can, even if its just for a few hours a week or biweekly. Join a club that you enjoy and attend as many meetings/events every month or so that your schedule can handle. 300 hours over two years speaks louder than 300 hours in four months and then dropped.

Shadowing can be seen as boring I guess but that doesn't make it any less mandatory if you're going the MD route. Shadowing is basically showing you the reality of being a physician and you're there solely to take that reality in. If you hate being in a clinical setting and if you're wanting a research heavy route, consider MD/PhD or just avoid medicine in general.

tl;dr If you're going to be miserable doing anything but research, then pursue a career in research.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Wet lab is pipettes, gels, cells, chemicals, cells yadda yadda. The fun stuff. If you intend on being research oriented, you will still need to be doing everything else in addition to it. Honestly, start now at 4 hours a week every other week (alternating weeks with one at clinical and one at non clinical) with the same organization from now until application and you will have at least 300 hours in each clinical and non clinical. After three years, you should also have leadership roles if you do it right.

Yea, I do like all that stuff. By now you mean right when college starts?

Ideally, nothing would be a checkbox. However there are things that you functionally have to do - and you will inevitably get more out of some experiences than others.



If you shadow and find it boring, medicine might not be for you.

Common ECs people have are:
Clinical Volunteering
Nonclinical Volunteering
Shadowing
Paid Clinical Work
Research

When I said I might not like shadowing, I mean more of that I’d prefer to do hands-on stuff (like actually working in a hospital). I’ve heard people say that you do nothing but watch from a corner when you’re shadowing. I would prefer actually doing things in the hospital over that.

I concur. Shadowing was some of the highlights of my premed experience, even if it was the shortest time commitment. Whether autopsies, the OR, slides, vasectomies, colonoscopies, Hand burns, or UTIs...it was all new and exciting.

Maybe I don’t have the right idea of what it is. I’m assuming you just watch a doctor do stuff from a distance?

Because you've just graduated high school, I feel like that's appropriate. Maybe just what you've done in the past two years & anything notable (like that research experience).



If you plan on doing research your entire undergraduate career, I think a couple thousand hours wouldn't be too difficult to obtain. Yeah, wet lab is basically bio/chem labs. I've seen other pre-meds do clinical research as well, but I've read that it's not look on as favorably by research-oriented schools.



I'm glad you know that there needs to be an adjustment period before taking on ECs 👍 .

Avoid the checkbox approach, period. This is where time management comes into play. Do volunteering about something you genuinely care about for as long as you can, even if its just for a few hours a week or biweekly. Join a club that you enjoy and attend as many meetings/events every month or so that your schedule can handle. 300 hours over two years speaks louder than 300 hours in four months and then dropped.

Shadowing can be seen as boring I guess but that doesn't make it any less mandatory if you're going the MD route. Shadowing is basically showing you the reality of being a physician and you're there solely to take that reality in. If you hate being in a clinical setting and if you're wanting a research heavy route, consider MD/PhD or just avoid medicine in general.

tl;dr If you're going to be miserable doing anything but research, then pursue a career in research.

Thanks for the detailed response. I was thinking a career in pathology, because it’s the least hands-on. The thing is: I’m good at theory and stuff, but not as good at hands-on stuff (even tho I like doing it). Throughout high school, I was good at coming up with plans on how to do the labs, but relied on other people to actually do them well.

 

[The Re-Animator]

When I said I might not like shadowing, I mean more of that I’d prefer to do hands-on stuff (like actually working in a hospital). I’ve heard people say that you do nothing but watch from a corner when you’re shadowing. I would prefer actually doing things in the hospital over that.

Shadowing is doing nothing but observing. I'd like to do things to, but there's a lot to learn before you can, and shadowing is one of the many learning opportunities that you should seek out. Listening and watching is an important pre-req to doing.

Thanks for the detailed response. I was thinking a career in pathology, because it’s the least hands-on. The thing is: I’m good at theory and stuff, but not as good at hands-on stuff (even tho I like doing it). Throughout high school, I was good at coming up with plans on how to do the labs, but relied on other people to actually do them well.

My advice: try out everything. You're going to change a lot from where you are right now to when you graduate your undergrad, and especially so after medical school, residency, etc. Your undergrad is there to do all the things: shadow different specialties, try out research, scribe in different departments, go to pre-health events and ask questions, make connections, maybe study abroad, volunteer with different populations. Who knows, maybe you'll find out you really like research but you love service oriented projects. Don't limit yourself, push yourself outside of your comfort zone, and figure things out one step at a time. You don't need to plan your entire career right now.

ie: three years ago I had a dread and my aspirations consisted of tie dying shirts and selling them on Etsy. Things change.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

@lodo.owl I’m getting great responses from you! I will do that. I will try to find my true passion.

 

[thedolphin]

Didn't see this posted above, so will also add: if you have specific research interest areas (or even an inkling that you might be interested in a certain type of research), you can try looking up centers or research groups at your university that conduct research in those areas. A lot of centers/research groups are run by PIs who don't necessarily teach undergrads (especially freshmen-level classes) and make for fantastic opportunities. That was how I found my current lab, and I'm pretty sure I would have missed the opportunity if I had only been looking at potential research positions under profs from classes I took.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Didn't see this posted above, so will also add: if you have specific research interest areas (or even an inkling that you might be interested in a certain type of research), you can try looking up centers or research groups at your university that conduct research in those areas. A lot of centers/research groups are run by PIs who don't necessarily teach undergrads (especially freshmen-level classes) and make for fantastic opportunities. That was how I found my current lab, and I'm pretty sure I would have missed the opportunity if I had only been looking at potential research positions under profs from classes I took.

Useful. But will they write as good of a recommendation letter tho?

 

[thedolphin]

Useful. But will they write as good of a recommendation letter tho?

Can't testify to how medical school letters of rec will work out since I haven't applied yet, but my lab has written letters for my grant applications with good results. That may depend more on how invested a specific PI is in their students, though - probably lots of variation, but in my experience seems about level with what a prof from a pre-med class would likely provide (if anything, a PI who doesn't teach big undergrad classes may have more bandwidth to get to know individual students, just because they may have fewer undergrad RAs to start with). Either way, it's the learning opportunities and mentorship that are the most valuable!

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Can't testify to how medical school letters of rec will work out since I haven't applied yet, but my lab has written letters for my grant applications with good results. That may depend more on how invested a specific PI is in their students, though - probably lots of variation, but in my experience seems about level with what a prof from a pre-med class would likely provide (if anything, a PI who doesn't teach big undergrad classes may have more bandwidth to get to know individual students, just because they may have fewer undergrad RAs to start with). Either way, it's the learning opportunities and mentorship that are the most valuable!

Agreed.