So really, how intense is grad school?

[solitude]

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I'm just interested in everybody's opinion regarding how much work the grad school portion of the MD/PhD requires (or simply grad school in general). Is it more intense for MD/PhD students than for regular PhD students?

I have been working in the same lab for over a year, and I have been wholly unimpressed with the work ethic of the graduate students. Most arrive at about 10, fiddle around on their computers half the day (often just reading espn.com and the like), and leave between 5 and 6. Some take a few afternoons per week off, and rarely, if ever, do they stay late (i.e. past 8 or so). Most come in on the weekends only for an hour or two, to maintain their experiments. From my reckoning, they don't do a lot of work at home (e.g. read papers, write manuscripts). I have not observed any noticeable differences in the work ethic of the MD/PhD vs. PhD students in this lab. The postdocs and PI, on the other hand, seem to work much longer hours.

My observations have me baffled. This is a big lab that publishes in good journals at a top-10 med school. Yet it doesn't seem like the students do that much work at all. Their average work week appears to be a good 30hrs/wk less than a typical top-notch high school, undergrad, or medical student's.

So I ask, is it possible to do good research and publish as a grad student without being a workaholic, or are these students anomalous? Anecdotes, rants, and derision are all welcome.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I'm just interested in everybody's opinion regarding how much work the grad school portion of the MD/PhD requires (or simply grad school in general). Is it more intense for MD/PhD students than for regular PhD students?

I have been working in the same lab for over a year, and I have been wholly unimpressed with the work ethic of the graduate students. Most arrive at about 10, fiddle around on their computers half the day (often just reading espn.com and the like), and leave between 5 and 6. Some take a few afternoons per week off, and rarely, if ever, do they stay late (i.e. past 8 or so). Most come in on the weekends only for an hour or two, to maintain their experiments. From my reckoning, they don't do a lot of work at home (e.g. read papers, write manuscripts). I have not observed any noticeable differences in the work ethic of the MD/PhD vs. PhD students in this lab. The postdocs and PI, on the other hand, seem to work much longer hours.

My observations have me baffled. This is a big lab that publishes in good journals at a top-10 med school. Yet it doesn't seem like the students do that much work at all. Their average work week appears to be a good 30hrs/wk less than a typical top-notch high school, undergrad, or medical student's.

So I ask, is it possible to do good research and publish as a grad student without being a workaholic, or are these students anomalous? Anecdotes, rants, and derision are all welcome.

My personal view is that the hours are not as important as the actual work. I worked in a lab where lab meeting was every Monday and everyone presented their work at every meeting. There was no journal club. The lab meeting format discouraged goofing around in the lab and forced all of us to produce at least one or two decent results every week.

Some days I worked as little as 5 or 6 hours. Others I worked 14, 16, 24 or 36 hours in the lab. Sometimes there just is nothing to do but wait. Other times it's best to get the work done through the night rather.

In the lab in which I worked I was the only grad student, and the there was one post-doc, two visiting scientists, and three lab techs. It seemed to me that all of us alike did our best and worked hard. The key is the PIs worked the hardest, and that's important, as it encourages others to work hard as well.

 

[Circumflex]

I found that most graduate student experiences were PI-dependent in many ways. Some PIs prod their students along, constantly asking for data and guiding them. In my case, my PI was very hands off. He would give me broad guidance, but I could go a week without talking with him. I didn't have a defined time of how long I would be in the PhD portion of my training, so it was in my best interest to be as efficient with time as possible.

You never know when you are going to hit a major obstacle or lose a sample and potentially weeks of work. I would go in spurts. I would work stretches of long hours when I needed to, and then slow down a bit. That is the beauty of graduate school - you have the luxury of titrating the amount of work you do. In addition to my cool, cutting edge experiments, I also kept a more safe, sure-thing project going so I would be guaranteed publications if the other project didn't work.

I actually enjoyed being in the lab in the evenings and on weekends, because I got so much more work done than with other people around and phones ringing. Bottom line, the PhD portion is what you make of it. In general, you will be rewarded for hard work and patience.

 

[Frank Hardy]

I'm just interested in everybody's opinion regarding how much work the grad school portion of the MD/PhD requires (or simply grad school in general). Is it more intense for MD/PhD students than for regular PhD students?

I have been working in the same lab for over a year, and I have been wholly unimpressed with the work ethic of the graduate students. Most arrive at about 10, fiddle around on their computers half the day (often just reading espn.com and the like), and leave between 5 and 6. Some take a few afternoons per week off, and rarely, if ever, do they stay late (i.e. past 8 or so). Most come in on the weekends only for an hour or two, to maintain their experiments. From my reckoning, they don't do a lot of work at home (e.g. read papers, write manuscripts). I have not observed any noticeable differences in the work ethic of the MD/PhD vs. PhD students in this lab. The postdocs and PI, on the other hand, seem to work much longer hours.

My observations have me baffled. This is a big lab that publishes in good journals at a top-10 med school. Yet it doesn't seem like the students do that much work at all. Their average work week appears to be a good 30hrs/wk less than a typical top-notch high school, undergrad, or medical student's.

So I ask, is it possible to do good research and publish as a grad student without being a workaholic, or are these students anomalous? Anecdotes, rants, and derision are all welcome.

It also depends on the type of research taking place. For instance I worked in a biochemistry lab where students worked a minimum of 12 hours a day including saturday, whereas in genetics they spend considerably less time. The quality of research is the same but the techniques used may require variable amounts of time. This frustrates me at times but it all depends on your interests, patience, and perseverance. Learn to work as the grad. students do and use your time effectively.

 

[BozoSparky]

It depends on the group, too. Some PIs are fine with minimal work...others are hard-asses.

Or...my boss was actually very laid back, but the people in my group were motivated and worked really hard...we could have taken it easy if we wanted...but what we really wanted was to do something crazy & amazing...that had never been done and publish it...that's the laboratory addiction that kept us going. oh...i miss the lab...so exciting. med school coursework is draining all creativity from my bones...

if you are looking at espn all day, you might be in trouble unless you pull of some kind of "hero" experiment.

 

[Hard24Get]

I'm with BozoSparky- it all depends on the lab. I am finishing up now, and my PI has been very hands off from the beginning, but we are all so excited about what we do that we work like crazy. Sure, there are slow days, but I have about 3 projects that are bound to have at least something cooking at all times. I have classmates, certainly, that work a lot less, but many of them have a lot of tech support and do little in vitro experiments.

Plus, while PhD students typically take longer to graduate secondary to goofing off, it's true that MD-PhDs are often held to lower standards. For me, the extra work was worth it for what I accomplished and for the respect of the research community that I did a "real" PhD.

It depends on the group, too. Some PIs are fine with minimal work...others are hard-asses.

Or...my boss was actually very laid back, but the people in my group were motivated and worked really hard...we could have taken it easy if we wanted...but what we really wanted was to do something crazy & amazing...that had never been done and publish it...that's the laboratory addiction that kept us going. oh...i miss the lab...so exciting. med school coursework is draining all creativity from my bones...

if you are looking at espn all day, you might be in trouble unless you pull of some kind of "hero" experiment.