So what does retaking really mean

[moop]

Coming from a school where there is no such thing as retaking a class you've taken already, I don't get what people mean. People are retaking the same exact class over again? (Sounds like a waste of time..) If so, how is it that people do not make straight A in retakes if it's the same exact material? Isn't that pretty embarrassing?

Or do people mean they're taking a similar class to make up for a previous low grade

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[Catalystik]

You are assuming that students who got low grades paid attention the first time around. One might not master the material on the first pass due to inattention, illness, personal disaster, or whatever. Especially if it's for a prerequisite, then retaking the same class to redeem one's GPA, meet the requirement of a minimum grade set by some med schools, qualify for an upper-level course, or to get a better grounding in material needed to do well on the MCAT, isn't a "waste of time."

 

[Scaredddd]

Coming from a school where there is no such thing as retaking a class you've taken already, I don't get what people mean. People are retaking the same exact class over again? (Sounds like a waste of time..) If so, how is it that people do not make straight A in retakes if it's the same exact material? Isn't that pretty embarrassing?

Or do people mean they're taking a similar class to make up for a previous low grade

Well at my school, if the class is needed for a major, you must get above a D for it and therefore need to repeat it if you fail (or get a D). Also, it's pretty easy to fall behind in my school. I had strep for 2 weeks and missed a third of the material.

 

[Patros]

Princeton doesn't allow retakes? What if someone fails a class in freshman year? Are they just kicked out of the major?

Anyway, retakes at my place are allowed for two reasons:
1. You did very poorly and an upper-level class requires at least a C.
2. The class is a seminar that teaches different material each time. Usually there is a cap of about 3 retakes.

Most people who retake a class do much better the second time. However I want to point out that this is not generally an advantage. AMCAS certainly doesn't give you any breaks, since they report both grades (final grade being average of the two).

 

[DreamingDoc]

For my major in undergrad, I was required to retake any class that gave me a grade lower than a C. They didn't allow retakes at all if you had a C or higher in a class, but I know some schools that will allow this.

 

[moop]

Princeton doesn't allow retakes? What if someone fails a class in freshman year? Are they just kicked out of the major?

People don't just fail classes randomly I guess; something like <1% of all grades given out are actually D and below. I don't believe any Ivy allows straight up retakes.

I have no clue what happens if someone fails a prereq for a concentration lol. Nothing in our bulletin really addresses this. My guess is that they'll be asked to take another similar class to make up for it. You just cannot enroll in ECO 110 if you've already taken ECO 110 before.

 

[Catalystik]

You just cannot enroll in ECO 110 if you've already taken ECO 110 before.

If one needs to retake a class and their school won't allow it, one can enroll in another school. It may not make a difference for the primary university, but an AMCAS (and TMDSAS) transcript will show all grades from all schools and calculate a new GPA. AACOMAS (for DO schools) will only count the most recent grade for a given course, if the credit hours are the same or greater.

 

[moop]

Does not such a retake system seem potentially unfair? Say C is the threshold for a retake. Someone who got a C the first time and an A the second time (avg = 3.0) would be better off than someone who got a B- (2.67) the first time around but wasn't allowed to retake. Small things like this may not matter that much, but at the margin, there's a difference. Some will figure out that a CC is an option, but those that don't realize will just have to settle.

Wouldn't this encourage moral hazard for a kid to purposely slack off on the final once he realizes he can easily fall below the threshold for a retake? Granted if someone's getting Cs, they aren't going to make As easily the second time around but there's still something to be said for seeing the same material a second time, especially if the reason for the bad grade was sickness and the kid already knows a portion of the stuff well.

In all honesty, if Princetonians were allowed to retake classes limitlessly, then damn, our GPAs would be higher than those at Harvard, which is saying a lot. Adcoms will see retakers as having "tenacity to overcome difficulties, blah blah" while others are stuck with their Bs.

 

[487806]

Does not such a retake system seem potentially unfair? Say C is the threshold for a retake. Someone who got a C the first time and an A the second time (avg = 3.0) would be better off than someone who got a B- (2.67) the first time around but wasn't allowed to retake. Small things like this may not matter that much, but at the margin, there's a difference. Some will figure out that a CC is an option, but those that don't realize will just have to settle.

Wouldn't this encourage moral hazard for a kid to purposely slack off on the final once he realizes he can easily fall below the threshold for a retake? Granted if someone's getting Cs, they aren't going to make As easily the second time around but there's still something to be said for seeing the same material a second time, especially if the reason for the bad grade was sickness and the kid already knows a portion of the stuff well.

In all honesty, if Princetonians were allowed to retake classes limitlessly, then damn, our GPAs would be higher than those at Harvard, which is saying a lot. Adcoms will see retakers as having "tenacity to overcome difficulties, blah blah" while others are stuck with their Bs.

I'm not sure what your concern is. MD schools don't care about the retakes (or perhaps even look down at them, especially at the top tiers --> average them). DO schools are the only ones that replace them because they believe in redemption. The whole retake issue only concerns those who are weak candidates to begin with (i.e. underdogs).

Yes it's counterproductive for adcoms. Their job is to thin the applicant pool, not to encourage them to multiply by screwing up initially and rebound back later (along with other juicy perks they offer)

 

[knv2u]

I'm not sure what your concern is. MD schools don't care about the retakes (or perhaps even look down at them, especially at the top tiers --> average them). DO schools are the only ones that replace them because they believe in redemption. The whole retake issue only concerns those who are weak candidates to begin with (i.e. underdogs).

I think the weighting of it in the GPA is of concern primarily to those who are weak candidates, but I disagree that only people who are weak candidates retake courses as one could infer from your post. I retook a course that I received an A in to improve my understanding of a subject. This can happen if you have a professor that doesn't use textbooks, no structure, limited materials, etc., or one who is not the greatest at explaining. A lot of resources on the internet will only take you so far; there is a reason that colleges have lectures.

 

[487806]

I think the weighting of it in the GPA is of concern primarily to those who are weak candidates, but I disagree that only people who are weak candidates retake courses as one could infer from your post. I retook a course that I received an A in to improve my understanding of a subject. This can happen if you have a professor that doesn't use textbooks, no structure, limited materials, etc., or one who is not the greatest at explaining. A lot of resources on the internet will only take you so far; there is a reason that colleges have lectures.

You're the exception. My UG (along with most others probably) doesn't allow retakes in classes with C or higher. The purpose of retake is to bump the GPA and lessen the impact of screw-ups.

 

[BlackBox]

Weird OP

 

[knv2u]

Princeton doesn't allow retakes? What if someone fails a class in freshman year? Are they just kicked out of the major?

Anyway, retakes at my place are allowed for two reasons:
1. You did very poorly and an upper-level class requires at least a C.
2. The class is a seminar that teaches different material each time. Usually there is a cap of about 3 retakes.

Most people who retake a class do much better the second time. However I want to point out that this is not generally an advantage. AMCAS certainly doesn't give you any breaks, since they report both grades (final grade being average of the two).

Hardly anyone fails out of the top schools, especially the Ivies now a days. You can usually expect a "gentleman's C" unless you do something stupid like not showing up for class ever, not doing the assignments, skipping exams, etc.

 

[BlackBox]

Of course you can retake at Princeton.

OP is baiting people.

 

[samsunimomo]

OP has a chip on his shoulder and wants everyone to know that he goes to Princeton.
Good for you, OP.

 

[BlackBox]

OP has a chip on his shoulder and wants everyone to know that he goes to Princeton.
Good for you, OP.

Fact.

 

[BlackBox]

@moop

Do you even lift?

 

[Microglia]

Of course you can retake at Princeton.

OP is baiting people.

Edit: Oops, Anastasia beat me to it. Disregard. Lol

You're right. You can retake at Princeton.

Failed Courses
A failed course does not count toward the number of courses needed for graduation or advancement with one's class, nor can it be used to satisfy any of the University requirements.
A failed course may result in a course deficiency if the student does not have an extra course to offset the failure. A course deficiency must be made up by taking an extra Princeton course in a subsequent term or by successfully completing a pre-approved course at another school.

********
While the grade of F in a course normally does not mean that the particular course must be repeated, there are several instances in which a failed course must be retaken and successfully completed. This is the case for a foreign language course taken to complete the language requirement; for the courses in mathematics, physics, chemistry, and computer programming that are part of the B.S.E. degree requirements; for specific courses needed as prerequisites to enter a department or program; and for any course the successful completion of which is required of the concentrators in a given department.
********
If a student chooses or is required to repeat a failed course, the failing grade remains on the transcript.
Failing grades may result in required withdrawal, failure to qualify for graduation, academic probation, or academic warning.

Source: https://www.princeton.edu/ua/sections/9/#000000667_1100

 

[moop]

Are you sure you're not allowed to retake courses at Princeton? Under the section "Failed Courses" here, it looks like failed courses that are prereqs for certain majors and programs are required to be retaken if you want to enter that program.
https://www.princeton.edu/ua/sections/9/#000000667_1100

On this website about from Princeton's Health Professions office, it indicates that you can retake courses at Princeton (look under "Repeating Classes")
https://www.princeton.edu/hpa/faq/coursework/all/

My understanding is, you can repeat courses but both grades will count in your Princeton GPA. They will also both count in your AMCAS GPA.

I found that as well while looking for an answer this afternoon, and after asking around a bit, it looks like it's very rare to be able to retake the same thing after failure here. You're encouraged to do it elsewhere over a summer or winter session instead of redoing the same thing. The idea is that Princeton credits are valuable and retakes are last priority. Again, rarely happens anyway. In any case that's only for failures; I was referring to really low passing grades.

 

[moop]

OP has a chip on his shoulder and wants everyone to know that he goes to Princeton.
Good for you, OP.

I only have the school on MDApps so my GPA can be interpreted accordingly...I'm not the one who brought up Pton ITT, in case you didn't notice.

 

[moop]

Of course you can retake at Princeton.

OP is baiting people.

Only for Fs, and apparently only allowed in more specific circumstances than the policies online say. I was referring to low passing grades being retaken, as I mentioned in my hypothetical.

 

[moop]

@moop

Do you even lift?

Let's not derail.