So worried about one LOR

[Anonymusius]

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First time posting on this board.
I have this situation which I can't tell or ask my advisors so I hope for some help from you guys. Here's the deal: I did research in my junior year at a lab at my college. I had got along well with the PI but the postdoc who supervised me wasn't pleased with several things I did (ex, 'messed up' the experiment, came to lab late 2 times but with reasons, etc. in short, he didn't seem to like me). The time came when I asked the PI for a positive LOR; she said she would write me one. [She wrote me a reference once when she just barely knew me, and I got a scholarship thanks to her]. But that was BEFORE I pissed the postdoc off. I can't tell if this time she's gonna report the bad things I'd done in her lab had she heard about them from the postdoc. It really worries me especially since one of my professors told me that he ended up writing a negative LOR after being displeased by the student's behavior; needless to say, that one didn't get into med school with such a LOR. In my case, I don't want a bad letter to ruin my chance. On the other hand, I have good other references (2 science, 2 non-science, 1 from volunteer coordinator) BUT hers will be the only research LOR I get. So... after she finished the letter, should I ask her straight out if it's totally positive so I can feel safe to send it?

 

[nick_carraway]

should I ask her straight out if it's totally positive so I can feel safe to send it?

You should ask her before she writes it. Try not to sound presumptuous when you ask, but say that you got some advice to ask everyone to make sure that the letters are not just good, but strong and you want to know if she still feels confident writing a letter.

If you're this paranoid now, it's going to eat at you if acceptances don't trickle in.

 

[Anonymusius]

Perhaps you missed, I did write in my previous post: "The time came when I asked the PI for a positive LOR; she said she would write me one."
I wanna ask her again after she finished writing to make sure.
bad implications?

 

[drizzt3117]

Perhaps you missed, I did write in my previous post: "The time came when I asked the PI for a positive LOR; she said she would write me one."
I wanna ask her again after she finished writing to make sure.
bad implications?

If they said they're going to write you a positive letter, then they will, most likely. If you don't believe them then don't get them to write it. Either you trust them to write you a letter or you don't.

 

[Anonymusius]

I need more opinions, please!!!

 

[NiCad089]

If she's written you a good letter in the past and she says she's going to write you a good letter then she's probably going to write you a good letter. No need to ask her again. But there's no harm in doing so.

 

[chessknt]

If they said they're going to write you a positive letter, then they will, most likely. If you don't believe them then don't get them to write it. Either you trust them to write you a letter or you don't.

This isnt an opinion, its a fact. You obviously dont trust her (although you gave no indication as to why you think she would suddenly try to sabotage you now), so ditch the letter and go without it.

Alternatively, you could just confront/suckup to the postdoc and apologize for your mistakes and let him now that he has taught you a lot and you appreciate and want to help him any way possible etc etc. I think if you are genuine about it, he would have to be a pretty big ******* to openly sabotage you.

 

[BlueElmo]

I think you should just ditch the whole idea. Get a letter from someone else not affiliated with the lab, that way you won't have to worry and stress so much.

 

[deleted212936]

Why the bitterness and sarcasm? The OP was asking a pretty usual question IMO.

@OP: just beware that most, if not all PI's will ask the supervisor about your lab performance before writing the letter, and I think his report is likely to affect her perception of you. If I were you, I would ask her now whether she feels comfortable writing you a strong, positive letter.

 

[SiR99]

It annoys me how some professors could write bad LOR's for people. The person trusts you to write something good to help them out, and if they are not comfortable with it then they should just refuse to write the letter.

I think after she writes the letter, you should explain to her the situation about how the post-doc has negative feelings about you and you are wondering if this has affected your LOR.

Only do this if your reasons were seriously legit, if you were in a "meeting" or something like that and you showed up late, or if you feel asleep, or had other things planned that you felt were more important, then dont use the letter. In other words if the post-doc's negative feelings about you are pretty much your fault that you could have avoided then dont use the letter.

 

[Freezer]

As a professor, I have had the opportunity to write several letters for students... most of the time, we are excited to write letters mainly because if the student is accepted to a program(medicine, nursing, PT, PhD, etc) we get to use that as a bit of advertising for our own program. It is great to be able to say "not only is this a great lab to work in, but we have also had our share of students go onto to successful careers in medicine!!!"... every once in awhile I see professors at several schools overlook student flaws in their letters because they want that future publicity... but more importantly, if someone writes a letter that is in anyway negative to your character, that person risks a lawsuit... it is defamation of character and if they cannot back up their claims(very difficult to do) they are in for some rough times... so take it from the writers perspective, if they say they will write a letter for you, you can assume it will be positive... majority of the time, if someone cannot write a positive letter, they just will not write one... something I saw in an LOR request that I thought was very professional was the statement "If you have any questions or concerns, I will be very happy to address them for you so that we can have a letter we are both comfortable in submitting."

the worst senario everyone should watch our for is absent minded letter writers... when letters are sent, make sure your school got them... every now and then a letter writer will forget to send a letter...

Note to anyone who has had a poor letter of evaluation written for them without any justification and/or notification, you have some firm legal ground to stand on!

 

[drizzt3117]

As a professor, I have had the opportunity to write several letters for students... most of the time, we are excited to write letters mainly because if the student is accepted to a program(medicine, nursing, PT, PhD, etc) we get to use that as a bit of advertising for our own program. It is great to be able to say "not only is this a great lab to work in, but we have also had our share of students go onto to successful careers in medicine!!!"... every once in awhile I see professors at several schools overlook student flaws in their letters because they want that future publicity... but more importantly, if someone writes a letter that is in anyway negative to your character, that person risks a lawsuit... it is defamation of character and if they cannot back up their claims(very difficult to do) they are in for some rough times... so take it from the writers perspective, if they say they will write a letter for you, you can assume it will be positive... majority of the time, if someone cannot write a positive letter, they just will not write one... something I saw in an LOR request that I thought was very professional was the statement "If you have any questions or concerns, I will be very happy to address them for you so that we can have a letter we are both comfortable in submitting."

the worst senario everyone should watch our for is absent minded letter writers... when letters are sent, make sure your school got them... every now and then a letter writer will forget to send a letter...

Note to anyone who has had a poor letter of evaluation written for them without any justification and/or notification, you have some firm legal ground to stand on!

Well I think the thing people are worried about is not an outright poor LOR (that would be pretty messed up if they said they would write you a positive letter and didn't) but if they wrote you a letter that said that you were "adequate" I don't think you'd have grounds for a lawsuit but it would be equally detrimental to your chances.

 

[deleted212936]

if someone writes a letter that is in anyway negative to your character, that person risks a lawsuit... it is defamation of character and if they cannot back up their claims(very difficult to do) they are in for some rough times...

Note to anyone who has had a poor letter of evaluation written for them without any justification and/or notification, you have some firm legal ground to stand on!

Welcome to SDN!

About your point, I think the letter needs not contain defamation. A mild criticism like: "This person has average communication skill", "He's often late to lab but had good reasons", or "he did not understand what he's doing in my lab" is enough for a rejection letter to come his way.
Second, applicants are supposed to waive their rights to read the letters.
If there's negative content, the damage is done. Even if they sue the writer, they'll stand no ground, and it's not worth the trouble of reapplying.

Btw, I've always wondered, do recommendation writers get some other benefit besides getting chances to 'advertise' their programs?

 

[nick_carraway]

Btw, I've always wondered, do recommendation writers get some other benefit besides getting chances to 'advertise' their programs?

Helping their students succeed in life?

 

[yangxx2]

If they said they're going to write you a positive letter, then they will, most likely. If you don't believe them then don't get them to write it. Either you trust them to write you a letter or you don't.

👍

 

[mezmerized7]

I think you should reask the question...that would be much better than the PI hearing stuff from the postdoc and then writing something negative, and you don't get into med school. I was in a similar situation, but fortunately I got additional and more recent research experience, so I didn't even ask my former PI, cuz I knew he held the potdoc in high esteem and I was just a mere undergrad.

Reask to make sure, better finding out now than later!