SOAP 2025
Started by vbomn
Hey guys. Thanks for doing this. I'm an OMS-4 who applied Neurology and only matched into a prelim program I had 2 questions I wanted to ask
1) How much should I change my personal statement for a Neurology advanced program that had 1 unfilled spot. I know often that people will change essays based on SOAP, but since it is the same speciality I am interested in, do I need to change it?
2) My second question is how the offer rounds work. So on my R3 SOAP page I have 10 programs for example. And lets say I only wish to apply to the 2 neurology programs. For the 8 programs I do not send an addtional application through ERAs to, are they able to still contact me when Thursday hits and programs begin to send out offers? Or is it ONLY the ones I applied to that will send it.
Thanks!
1) How much should I change my personal statement for a Neurology advanced program that had 1 unfilled spot. I know often that people will change essays based on SOAP, but since it is the same speciality I am interested in, do I need to change it?
2) My second question is how the offer rounds work. So on my R3 SOAP page I have 10 programs for example. And lets say I only wish to apply to the 2 neurology programs. For the 8 programs I do not send an addtional application through ERAs to, are they able to still contact me when Thursday hits and programs begin to send out offers? Or is it ONLY the ones I applied to that will send it.
Thanks!
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1) I think you likely don't need to do much changing for the first round. It may be worth adding a line that might explain why you didn't apply to these programs specifically (i.e. if it was geography, maybe something like "I originally focused my applications in ERAS on programs in the x region; however, given my passion for becoming a neurologist, I am willing to go anywhere to realize this goal.") But you likely don't need to make wholesale changes unless you've gotten feedback that there was a prior problem with your PS.
2) I will let others answer the specifics. However, it is likely that these neuro programs will fill in the first round of SOAP, and if you choose not to apply to other specialties in the first round then you'll have even less appetizing options in the next round if you fail to match neuro again. So your real question should be whether you would rather match something other than neuro, or if there is some other option outside of just taking whatever you can get in SOAP. Realistically speaking you likely also apply to IM/FM/EM, unless you are really willing to risk getting to the scramble.
As a J1 visa requiring IMG who applied IM, should I apply prelim surgery and try to apply to Im next year and repeat intern year? That is acceptable since its a different speciality. I can't go from prelim IM to PGY1 IM next yr and I have to bank on finding a PGY2 spot next yr.
Also prelim surgery spots will go empty for the most part I hope, what do yall think?
Also prelim surgery spots will go empty for the most part I hope, what do yall think?
Thank you for the response. Ideally, I would apply for IM, but the problem is that because I am locked into a prelim position I am shut out of all IM programs. Pretty much any 3 year program is what's fair game for me. I know often preliminary PGY1s will change from just preliminary positions to becoming full on IM residents but this is usually not done through ERAS. The one benefit I have is that I can reapply for neurology because I have the preliminary position the next cycle though I would need new letters and everything.
I would assume that would not apply to applicants in SOAP... however you're also competing against people who failed to match surgical subspecialties, so if this is a prestigious program then it may be difficult to guess your odds. Regardless, you realistically just need to apply and hope.
Also, I've deleted a request for the list of the unmatched spots. Requesting or posting the list of unfilled program is a match violation, and further posts along this line will result in a thread-ban
Thank you dude. Having a full day to process this I'm glad I was at least able to come out of it with a prelim program. Many others I know weren't so lucky and I feel for them. Any advice for me if I get these rapid fire interviews? I had 7 neuro interviews this cycle which I all thought went well, but I guess despite that number I must have not impressed much in the interview
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Hard to say. I would recommend being as genuine as possible and making it clear that if you get a spot that you'll be the hardest working resident in the program.
Also I did have one more question regarding switching residencies. Lets say I match at a 3 year Neurology program too, but during my preliminary year I end up liking IM more. Am I allowed to try and switch into a 4 year IM program instead. I know it happens occasionally where, preliminary PGY1s will conntinue on as IM residents. Based on programs I interviewed at, it was never clear to me if it was students who only matched at prelims who were able to continue onwards, or if students who matched at prelims and then another 3 year specialty could too. I just wonder if I match into a Neurology program for PGY2-4 too if it would be a match violation to go back on that.
I'd worry about securing an advanced slot, and then later worry about what to do if it turns out you don't like the specialty. Compared to today, that will be a good problem to have
@NotAProgDirector may know this. Can someone do a prelim year, then start over again as a prelim in a three year categorical IM program?
I would say you could do an IM prelim year, then repeat it in a categorical program. The issue could be funding. It might not be as big of a deal for a US citizen. I'm just not sure. I have seen posts by NotAProgDiretor and they seem to be very knowledgeable on visa topics, so hopefully they can shed some light on the topic.
Sorry, late to the thread.
The way the rounds work is this: Any program which interviews you between now and when SOAP rounds start may decide to extend an offer during SOAP. Programs can only extend as many offers as open spots they have -- so if my program had 2 open positions, I can interview as many people as I want, but when Round 1 happens I can only offer two people. As an applicant, during a SOAP round you can get any number of offers - you could get zero, or one, or many. If you get any offers, then you have time to pick which one you would like to accept. You have the choice of not accepting any if you want. Any spot you decline, the program can then offer in the next round.
So for you, if you get a Neuro offer, you should basically take it unless you're incredibly unhappy with the program. if you were to get some offer in another field in the first round, you'd have the difficult choice of taking it and being done, or declining it and then hoping someone declines one of the Neuro offers in the first round so you'd have a chance in the second. But past data suggests that about 70% of spots fill in the 1st round -- so I wouldn't count on that.
Should you decide you want to continue in IM, then you usually can find a PGY-2 spot. Your PD will get alerts from other programs when spots open up. rarely, you could apply in the match and repeat your PGY-1.
You should apply broadly to any programs that interest you and for which you think you are competitive. Since you matched to a prelim, your only choices will be Advanced programs. You're free to apply to other specialties - but without experiences / letters in those fields you may not get much interest.
The way the rounds work is this: Any program which interviews you between now and when SOAP rounds start may decide to extend an offer during SOAP. Programs can only extend as many offers as open spots they have -- so if my program had 2 open positions, I can interview as many people as I want, but when Round 1 happens I can only offer two people. As an applicant, during a SOAP round you can get any number of offers - you could get zero, or one, or many. If you get any offers, then you have time to pick which one you would like to accept. You have the choice of not accepting any if you want. Any spot you decline, the program can then offer in the next round.
So for you, if you get a Neuro offer, you should basically take it unless you're incredibly unhappy with the program. if you were to get some offer in another field in the first round, you'd have the difficult choice of taking it and being done, or declining it and then hoping someone declines one of the Neuro offers in the first round so you'd have a chance in the second. But past data suggests that about 70% of spots fill in the 1st round -- so I wouldn't count on that.
Correct. Assuming you don't get anything in SOAP, you'd start your prelim program. Applications for next year's match would start in September - so you'd want to be doing stuff now to improve your application if you can. You will certainly get an LOR from your prelim PD, but that early in the year it's likely to say "Doing fine for a starting intern". So anything you can do now - research, more clinical experience, etc -- is key. In next year's match, you'd apply for both Neuro A positions (PGY-2 to start July 2027) and R positions (PGY-2 to start July 2026). You also could apply for C positions which would start as a PGY-1 in July 2026, although not all programs will be willing to have you repeat your PGY-1.
Should you decide you want to continue in IM, then you usually can find a PGY-2 spot. Your PD will get alerts from other programs when spots open up. rarely, you could apply in the match and repeat your PGY-1.
If you've matched to both a Prelim and separate Neuro A program (via SOAP or the main match), and you change your mind, you can resign your Neuro spot. You must do so before Jan 15th. if you request it before then, the NRMP will grant you a waiver. The neuro program will place your spot back into the match as an R position and refill it. IM is a three year program, as above you'd likely be able to find a PGY-2 position. Theoretically, you're supposed to resign your Neuro spot before looking for a PGY-2, but you won't get in any trouble if you start looking first. You really shouldn't sign a new contract until you've resigned your matched spot.
This is a complex question.
Yes, you can complete a PGY-1 in Gen Surgery and then change specialties to IM and restart as a PGY-1 on a J visa.
The ECFMG does not allow you to repeat a PGY year in the same specialty unless you have failed / require remediation. That means that if you complete a prelim GS PGY-1 year, you CANNOT match to a PGY-1 categorical GS year. Your only option to proceed in surgery would be via a PGY-2 position.
You are similarly correct that should you get an IM prelim PGY-1, your only option to move forward is a PGY-2 in IM, you cannot try to match to a PGY-1 again. However, unlike in surgery, it is relatively common for PGY-1 prelims to be able to get a PGY-2 spot in IM. Lots of spots open for many reasons.
The ECFMG allows a specialty change once, before the PGY-3 year. So should you change from GS to IM, you will be unable to change again and must finish in IM.
Funding, in either pathway, is not a problem. Should you start in GS, you get 5 years of funding total, so would start as an IM PGY-1 with 4 more years left. Should you start in an IM Prelim, then you'll have the usual 3 years of funding, will transition to an IM PGY-2, and be fine.
Ok that's reassuring to hear. So lets say in this SOAP I match into an advanced program that would begin in July 2026 with a PGY2 onwards. (My PGY1 is going to start this year in July 2025). If I choose to not to pursue my advanced position, I would need to resign from it before January 15th, 2026? Just want to make sure I have the dates correct.
Yes.
Link: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021.12.7-Waiver-Policy-Final.pdf
I would apply before Jan 1 just to be certain.
Link: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021.12.7-Waiver-Policy-Final.pdf
I would apply before Jan 1 just to be certain.
Got no interviews today for SOAP granted I only applied to the three neuro programs that were available so I knew the odds were slim.( I'm a US citizen DO student btw, Honored most rotations, had 7 Pubs and was on Sigma Sigma Phi but unfortunately had a 226+ Step 2 score for context). How does Post-SOAP matching work? Is there a different portal I will be able to use to reach out to programs? Or do i just call each program individually?
Sorry for all the questions. I had 7 Neuro interviews at a decent amount of programs in the northeast and I'm still kind of reeling back in shock that I didn't match and honestly did no SOAP preparation. Would it be wise to ask PDs if they could give feedback on my interview or application to improve for the year after?
There should be a SOAP Round 2 tomorrow, if there are any Neurology spots remaining unfilled. Have your advisors told you about any remaining programs?
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Nope they haven't. I;ve been going purely off the list of unfilled programs R3 provided me for SOAP. I believe offer rounds begin tomorrow at 9AM.
Its unfortunate that you find yourself in this situation. If there are only 3 neuro spots open in SOAP, they are likely to all fill in the first round, and given how closse the rounds are together any spot that does not fill will likely be offered to someone whom was already interviewed.
The post SOAP process is a free for all, there are no rules. Once all the SOAP rounds are completed, the list of "remaining open positions" will be posted. However, you are certain to discover that most of anything listed there is unlikely to be filled -- either it's an error, or the program is just not interested in filling the spot. You can try to reach out to programs -- perhaps someone will drop out, or a program will expand. You could also look for an IM Prelim spot -- if you got one of those, you could then apply for a Neuro R position or A position next year. There is no central list of open spots, so it's just a hard grind to contact programs and see what you can find.
Regarding reaching out for feedback -- you certainly can try. But I expect you'll get either no answer, or vague comments like "it was just a competitive year". HR is always worried that someone will say something that opens them up to claims of discrimination, so it's safest to just say nothing.
The post SOAP process is a free for all, there are no rules. Once all the SOAP rounds are completed, the list of "remaining open positions" will be posted. However, you are certain to discover that most of anything listed there is unlikely to be filled -- either it's an error, or the program is just not interested in filling the spot. You can try to reach out to programs -- perhaps someone will drop out, or a program will expand. You could also look for an IM Prelim spot -- if you got one of those, you could then apply for a Neuro R position or A position next year. There is no central list of open spots, so it's just a hard grind to contact programs and see what you can find.
Regarding reaching out for feedback -- you certainly can try. But I expect you'll get either no answer, or vague comments like "it was just a competitive year". HR is always worried that someone will say something that opens them up to claims of discrimination, so it's safest to just say nothing.
Sorry you're going though this. I had a tough time as well. I posted in this thread a few years back with my experience and was met with a "misery doesn't want your company" type of response, so I don't say too much about my experience anymore.
Just do all you can do. At the end, you'll be able to say you did that. You'll end up somewhere and a few years out this will hopefully not seem nearly as bad as it does now.
Just do all you can do. At the end, you'll be able to say you did that. You'll end up somewhere and a few years out this will hopefully not seem nearly as bad as it does now.
And one last question I have is a technical one for match day. So because I matched into solely the preliminary position, will I get a physical letter on match day to open? Because I have zero interest in going if I end up one of the few without a letter amongst my peers.
Ask your school since they are the ones that print them. Mine did
Mine did as well. Agree to just ask about it. I didn't feel much like going to mine due to the circumstances, but I just reframed it and thought I was mainly going to celebrate everyone else.
Update: I did end up going and it was great to see people again. Seeing people crying over getting their second choice made me roll my eyes and the especially nosy people trying to get info out of me was meh, but overall I am glad I chose to go and see my friends who helped me get through med school again.
I would wait for a couple of months, assuming you've done the work to prove to them that you're the best intern in the class.
I'd wait a bit. However, you may also want to reach out before schedules are made. You may want to have a month or two extra of floors and/or ICU up front to prove yourself opposed to electives and such.
I matched to a prelim but not categorical. I reached out the day after match to let them know I wanted to schedule electives in my categorical field early in the year since I would be applying again during intern year. Luckily I didn't need it in the end, but it was good to be ready in case I did.
I matched to a prelim but not categorical. I reached out the day after match to let them know I wanted to schedule electives in my categorical field early in the year since I would be applying again during intern year. Luckily I didn't need it in the end, but it was good to be ready in case I did.
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I actually did something similar. The chief residents were the ones who made our schedule so I emailed them asking to take the schedule that would have Wards frontloaded early on so I could learn. I've also been browsing findaresident.com and seen two openings though they were posted 1 year ago.
