Solubility of octanoic acid in base/acid

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I'm confused with this question as to why C and D are wrong.

The way I saw it is that in an acid, the OH helps with hydrogen bonding so its more soluble in H2O than an organic solvent, whereas the reverse will also be true when it loses the ability to H bond it will be more soluble in the organic solvent.

How do you go about answering this question correctly?

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Well C is wrong because the - charge on the O would make it more soluble in water than dichloromethane. I'm not entirely sure why D is wrong but instinct tells me that B is right because the caffeine has no charges and no H bonds and it would therefore be more soluble in dicholomethane.
 
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I'm confused with this question as to why C and D are wrong.

The way I saw it is that in an acid, the OH helps with hydrogen bonding so its more soluble in H2O than an organic solvent, whereas the reverse will also be true when it loses the ability to H bond it will be more soluble in the organic solvent.

How do you go about answering this question correctly?

For MCAT extraction it's all about protonation/deprotonation, not hydrogen bonding. (C.) in a basic solution, octanoic acid would be deprotonated and (on the MCAT) have a higher affinity for the water layer. (D.) If the solution is acidic, octanoic acid wouldn't be deprotonated and would have a higher affinity for the organic layer.

I'm sure this doesn't always work in the real world, but on the MCAT, washing bases with acids will almost always move them into the water layer and washing acids with bases will almost always move them into the water layer. You can play the which one doesn't belong game--charged species go to the aqueous layer and uncharged species stay in the organic layer.
 
it's definitely between not A and C, right? Because of the charge that the solvent would cause. Octanoic acid has 8 CH3 groups which are super nonpolar, so it's fairly unlikely to dissolve in water. therefore I would choose B. Message me if you have any questions. And yes, this would happen in the real world as well!
 
it's definitely between not A and C, right? Because of the charge that the solvent would cause. Octanoic acid has 8 CH3 groups which are super nonpolar, so it's fairly unlikely to dissolve in water. therefore I would choose B. Message me if you have any questions. And yes, this would happen in the real world as well!


right, but octanoate also has 8 CH3 groups. so based on that, it also is fairly unlikely to dissolve in water, so you would choose both octanoate and octanoic acid as being more soluble in H2O than in CH2Cl2 in both cases. that's incorrect, though, for the MCAT and this question. so, you can't use that logic. you have to compare the octanoic acid with deprotonated caffeine and octanoate with protonated caffeine. in real life, yes, overall, octanoate is still overall more nonpolar than polar, but octanoate is more polar relative to octanoic acid. anyways, that's off topic and doesn't address the question.

the person who posted above your post is 100% correct. this question is based on "like dissolves like." what's more like polar water and what's more like nonpolar dichloromethane? the more polar of the 2 goes with water, the less polar of the two, thus more nonpolar of the 2, extracts with dichloromethane.

in basic extraction for the MCAT, when a compound gains charge, its water solubility goes up. when a compound loses charge, its water solubility goes down and organic solubility goes up.

so for this question, the charged compounds extracts with water, the aqueous layer, and the uncharged compounds extract with dichloromethane, the organic layer. the layer it extracts in is the layer it is more soluble in.

as a sidenote, in real life, I would think that octanoate would still separate into the organic layer because, as you said, the 8 CH3s still make it overall more nonpolar. for MCAT purposes, though, if it has an increase in charge, that charge is attracted to the polar water and extracts with the water into the aqueous layer. if it has a reduction in charge, it is less polar than it originally was so it extracts with the organic layer.

here's an example. let's say the original is +3 and changes to +2. on the MCAT, that would extract with the organic layer because it has a reduction of charge. in real life, though, I still see that as having A CHARGE thus being polar and extracting into the aqueous layer. I don't think the MCAT will ever put you in that situation, though. I think they will always keep you in between -1 and +1. That way, if you reduce in charge, you'll always go to 0, thus no overall charge, thus nonpolar, and thus organic layer.

EDIT: I said that example would not appear on the MCAT. I suppose it could and there would probably be a choice of "these compounds cannot be seperated" choice. I would go with that. does anyone agree with me on that?

BTW, did anyone notice the mistake in the drawing of the acidic caffeine? they have the wrong charge. the N should be +1, not -1. the ammonia is protonated by the acid into ammonium. ammonium has a +1 charge. the answer is still the same because the caffeine still gains in charge in acidic solution, but it actually gains in positive charge, not negative charge. bad ExamKrackers.
 
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Wow that's a long reply! 😉

MCAT Q's are really not so convoluted at all.

My previous answer stated another way (and yeah, it's all about like dissolves like). A charged compound would not dissolve in a nonpolar solvent. And octanoic acid is more nonpolar than caffeine, so less likely to dissolve in water.
---> B
 
Is it just me or is the Nitrogen on caffeine given the wrong charge?

How are they making the N (-) when it clearly has 4 bonds. Shouldn't that be a (+)? Sorry, a little off topic, but still threw me when I saw it.
 
Is it just me or is the Nitrogen on caffeine given the wrong charge?

How are they making the N (-) when it clearly has 4 bonds. Shouldn't that be a (+)? Sorry, a little off topic, but still threw me when I saw it.

That's what I pointed out in my bolded statement in my last thread! lol but yep, definitely should be a +. doesn't matter about the answer, though...it still gains a charge (a positive instead of negative one), so extracts with water
 
That's what I pointed out in my bolded statement in my last thread! lol but yep, definitely should be a +. doesn't matter about the answer, though...it still gains a charge (a positive instead of negative one), so extracts with water


Ha ha. I just noticed that. Well, at least I'm not 'completely' losing my mind. 🙂
 
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