Some questions... New here (DAT in a 1.5 weeks)

[dhk2131]

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Hi all,

I am a rising senior at Columbia and will be taking my DAT July 16. I have been looking through SDN and must say that it has been very helpful in gaining some insight into how the actual exam will be. I have been reaching out to a lot of people who have already applied/been accepted regarding how to approach studying for the DAT. I am currently using Bootcamp, Destroyer, Cliff's AP Bio, Feralis, and Crack PAT. I have also tapped into some other resources including Math formulas and Gen Chem equations (and some other MCAT materials... since my brother is currently studying for his MCAT).

Given that I do not plan to take a gap year and will be applying this cycle (haven't really started my app, was hoping to do so after getting a solid DAT score), I need to do well. I've been studying for probably a month, and averaging 6-7 hours a day (not really sure how efficiently though... but I am definitely getting into a good rhythm).

I was wondering the following:
1) For those of you who have used bootcamp, was it noticeably more difficult than the actual DAT (the general consensus seems to be that it is the same, possibly slightly harder, but never easier). I seem to not be able to do as well as I want to on the RC of bootcamp... getting anywhere between 2-4 wrong on each passage.
2) How difficult is the QR? I took a look at the 2007 QR and it was okay (I managed a 29 or 1x). I do not have the Math Destroyer, but have worked through Bootcamp's exams (which seem to be a bit difficult) and the regular Destroyer's math.
3) How reliable is the actual calculator on the DAT? Do you have the punch in all the numbers/functions/etc via mouse (unable to type the numbers in)?
4) Is Bootcamp's PAT significantly more difficult than the actual DAT? It seems like Bootcamp's aperture focuses on proportions a lot more than Crack PAT does... as in you have to discriminate very small lengths between two answer choices. I seem to be able to manage 13-14/15 on CPD's apertures, but only half or so on Bootcamp's.
5) Are angles arguably easier on the actual DAT than CDP / Bootcamp? Angles are always a crapshoot for me... On the 2007 exam, I got 70/90 questions right on PAT, which was a 20 I believe... 6 of the 20 questions I got wrong were from angles.

I'm in my last week of studying, and have sort of burned out a bit. Looking for some recommendations as to what to do to best prep... I figure just practice practice practice instead of pure content review (which I'll probably do the night before). Reading through SDN has made me feel like everyone's experience with the actual DAT is that it is easier than they expect, or that they do better than they expected they'd do while taking the exam. Hopefully this will be the same for me 😛

My first round of scores on Bootcamp for Bio, GC, OC were all at least 20. I got destroyed by Destroyer my first time through, but I have always considered myself to be strong in the sciences. I just worry that Bio will be insanely random, and then at that point it is kind of out of my hands. Seems like the 2007 exam is easier too, but my scores were 21 Bio (4x), 25 GC (1x), 30 OC (0x), 20 PAT (20x), 21 RC (12x), 29 QR (1x).

Thanks all!

 

[dhk2131]

any input would be greatly appreciated!
i think i'm beginning to burn out, but trucking my way through. a bit hesitant to work through all of bootcamp's PAT tests (there are 10........)

 

[bamtori]

I'm in the exact same boat as you, test in 1.5 weeks, and I'd love to get answers to those same questions.

If you want a break from taking all these practice tests and having your scores affect your mood (negatively or positively, either way I think emotions can be the biggest distractor when it nears your test date), I'd recommend doing what I'm doing for the remainder of today - go to Chad's DAT/PAT quizzes link, and start doing all the quizzes (in bulk) related to Ochem, Gchem, and Bio, no timer, at your own pace. Make sure to enable "show answer right away" so that you're able to see the solution as you answer each question. I'm on 86/269 for the orgo section, and I feel like rather than stressing out over another round of destroyer, I'd like to refine all the areas where I'm weak, without the added stress of getting a score.

So my advice if you're losing steam - Pop on a tune if you'd like, and get through his quizzes - I've heard they're very representative of the DAT!

And feel free to PM me if you want a study buddy.. final stretch baby. the struggle is REAL.

 

[dhk2131]

Hey there,

Best of luck to you! I was fortunate enough to have a friend let me share his account for the quizzes (don't think he has the video subscription). I was a little tempted to not do the quizzes since there are so many for all three sciences, but figured it wouldn't hurt... I must say it is quite helpful since I've just been doing repeat questions on bootcamp/destroyer prior to getting access to Chad's quizzes.

I just want this to be over :/ hopefully I stay sane enough to power through the exam... just curious how difficult the actual PAT will be (I've been told it's pretty damn hard... similar to bootcamp) and how difficult QR will be (math is okay for me, but if I get some weird trig questions I'll admit defeat).

1 week till showtime

 

[bamtori]

Regarding the PAT on the real DAT, seems like the general consensus is that the level of difficulty for KEYHOLES is somewhere between bootcamp/achiever (bootcamp focuses too much on tiny proportions, and achiever's keyholes are just brutal.. you'll know what I mean if you've gone through a practice test), and TFE will be very similar to bootcamp/CDP. We should be fine on cube counting and pattern folding (LOS method is fail-proof), and pattern folding will be more similar to bootcamp, with more emphasis on actual shapes (CDP focuses too much on shading).

As you can tell, I've been spending more of my time digging through these forums for reassurance rather than actually studying. But to be honest, with 1 week left, at this stage in our journey, reassurance and confidence is exactly what we need.

 

[dhk2131]

I am holding the same exact mindset as you haha I keep getting the feeling (by reading SDN posts) that the DAT is not as bad as people make it out to be (as in people tend to do better than they expect despite thinking that they flunked a section).

When you say that the shapes are more prominent in PF on the PAT, do you mean that we can simply just look for the largest/oddest shaped figure and just make sure its proportions are correct? PF gives me a hard time when it involves shading, just because the whole rotating different segments with different shade patterns gets me tangled up. I seem to do fine on apertures on CDP, but Bootcamp gives me a harder time because of its heavy emphasis on fine details/millimeter length differences...

 

[bamtori]

I took a stab at my first bootcamp PAT practice exam last night, and I'd say 70% of my errors were in the keyhole section, and the remaining 30% distributed between angles and TFE.

 

[bamtori]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean, or at least that's the information I've been told by SDNers. I read a post earlier this morning saying how CDP's pattern folding is a bit outdated compared to bootcamp, but to be safe, we should ready to tackle anything that may be thrown at us. Especially considering how infamously difficult the PAT section can be.

 

[dhk2131]

Yea that's very true. Angles is just a crapshoot for me, and I tend to make careless mistakes... hopefully it is a bit easier on the real deal 😛

 

[J777]

I'm in the exact same boat as you, test in 1.5 weeks, and I'd love to get answers to those same questions.

If you want a break from taking all these practice tests and having your scores affect your mood (negatively or positively, either way I think emotions can be the biggest distractor when it nears your test date), I'd recommend doing what I'm doing for the remainder of today - go to Chad's DAT/PAT quizzes link, and start doing all the quizzes (in bulk) related to Ochem, Gchem, and Bio, no timer, at your own pace. Make sure to enable "show answer right away" so that you're able to see the solution as you answer each question. I'm on 86/269 for the orgo section, and I feel like rather than stressing out over another round of destroyer, I'd like to refine all the areas where I'm weak, without the added stress of getting a score.

So my advice if you're losing steam - Pop on a tune if you'd like, and get through his quizzes - I've heard they're very representative of the DAT!

And feel free to PM me if you want a study buddy.. final stretch baby. the struggle is REAL.

This is a great approach. I remember feeling the same way leading up to the exam. Doing Chads chem quizzes in bulk a few days before the exam is a great use of your time.. Very high yield.

Stay strong. You are both super close to being done with this beast.. It really is true, many end up doing better than they thought they would. Know that it feels sooooo good when you're done. Best of luck

 

[dhk2131]

does anyone know if we have to memorize log (1 - 9) for the gen chem portion of the exam? im looking through some acid-base stuff on chad's, and it's asking questions that i haven't come across in bootcamp or destroyer (focusing on estimating logs etc).

 

[bamtori]

does anyone know if we have to memorize log (1 - 9) for the gen chem portion of the exam? im looking through some acid-base stuff on chad's, and it's asking questions that i haven't come across in bootcamp or destroyer (focusing on estimating logs etc).

HIGHLY doubt it. If anything, chad's log estimation method will serve to be useful when calculating pH or using pH to calculate [H+] going backwards.

pH = -log(2 x 10^-3) = 2.7~2.8 (3 - 0.2 = 2.8)
pH = -log(8 x 10^-3) = 2.1~2.2 (3 - 0.8 = 2.2)
*the smaller the coefficient you're multiplying by the power of 10, the "less you subtract" from the power.

 

[dhk2131]

Hi all,

I just took the 2009 DAT online. I adjusted my scores based on the typos/errors in the test, and had the following scores:

BIO: 24 (3X)
GC: 24 (2X)
OC: 30 (0X)
PAT: 23 (8X)
RC: 19 (14X)
QR: 18 (9X)

I thought the overall exam was pretty challenging, especially RC and QR (QR was ridiculous... I consider myself very strong in math, but there were some really weird trig/geometry questions I HAVE NEVER EVER EVER seen before). Is the 2009 QR significantly more difficult than the real thing? I've been getting 1-2x on bootcamp questions (which people agree to be harder than the real exam... but CLEARLY not the 2009 one). I did not buy the Math Destroyer (perhaps this is why..), but the regular Dat Destroyer questions are MUCH MORE doable than the 2009 exam.

Also, could someone please put their input on the following questions from SNS:
1) Intracellular buffer is PHOSPHATE correct?
2) I always thought the chorion was the extra-embryonic membrane that reptiles/birds used because I think I've seen a similar question on bootcamp or dat destroyer... but it's allantois? What is it that birds have different to mammals then if not the chorion (I SWEAR there was a question I came across that said birds have the chorion as the extra-embryonic membrane for something.. but maybe not)
3) WHAT IS THE DAMN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PIPETTE AND BURET. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE A FINALIZED DECISION ON THIS.
4) Why are Arthropods the most diverse? I thought Chordates would be considering all of the different species it contains (from mammals to reptiles to etc.)

My exam is in 4 days... Thanks all!

 

[bamtori]

Hi all,

I just took the 2009 DAT online. I adjusted my scores based on the typos/errors in the test, and had the following scores:

BIO: 24 (3X)
GC: 24 (2X)
OC: 30 (0X)
PAT: 23 (8X)
RC: 19 (14X)
QR: 18 (9X)

I thought the overall exam was pretty challenging, especially RC and QR (QR was ridiculous... I consider myself very strong in math, but there were some really weird trig/geometry questions I HAVE NEVER EVER EVER seen before). Is the 2009 QR significantly more difficult than the real thing? I've been getting 1-2x on bootcamp questions (which people agree to be harder than the real exam... but CLEARLY not the 2009 one). I did not buy the Math Destroyer (perhaps this is why..), but the regular Dat Destroyer questions are MUCH MORE doable than the 2009 exam.

Also, could someone please put their input on the following questions from SNS:
1) Intracellular buffer is PHOSPHATE correct?
2) I always thought the chorion was the extra-embryonic membrane that reptiles/birds used because I think I've seen a similar question on bootcamp or dat destroyer... but it's allantois? What is it that birds have different to mammals then if not the chorion (I SWEAR there was a question I came across that said birds have the chorion as the extra-embryonic membrane for something.. but maybe not)
3) WHAT IS THE DAMN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PIPETTE AND BURET. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE A FINALIZED DECISION ON THIS.
4) Why are Arthropods the most diverse? I thought Chordates would be considering all of the different species it contains (from mammals to reptiles to etc.)

My exam is in 4 days... Thanks all!

I literally just finished counting my score for the 2009 ADA test, which I also took today! It was super annoying coming across so many errors, and I feel like I didn't learn anything new to be honest haha. Could've spent better use of my time, but still, it was the first time I sat down and went through an entire practice test.

My scores:
Bio (22)
OC (22)
GC (22)
PAT (30)
RC (17-19) didnt even bother counting the score.. got so many wrong, and I couldn't bother checking to see if the answer key was correct/incorrect
QR (19) **** that section. definitely won't be as difficult or have as many tedious calculations.

As for your questions:
1) Intracellular buffer is PHOSPHATE correct?
I thought that's what I read in another thread on SDN.. but where did you learn about an "intra-cellular buffering system" specifically? I always assumed "body's buffering system = bicarbonate".

2) I always thought the chorion was the extra-embryonic membrane that reptiles/birds used because I think I've seen a similar question on bootcamp or dat destroyer... but it's allantois? What is it that birds have different to mammals then if not the chorion (I SWEAR there was a question I came across that said birds have the chorion as the extra-embryonic membrane for something.. but maybe not)
I feel your pain on this one, I actually remember that exact question on bootcamp, and it confused me.
Basically, remember that chorion is the outermost layer (just beneath the egg shell) that allows for gas exchange. The allantois is ALSO involved in gas exchange, but always remember to associate allantois with NITROGENOUS WASTE (uric acid for birds). Another caveat that only applies to reptiles/birds is that the chorion and allantois fuse together in later development.

3) WHAT IS THE DAMN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PIPETTE AND BURET. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE A FINALIZED DECISION ON THIS.
The buret allows for the most precise measurements (to the tenth of a mL, like 10.5mL), while pipets are used only for TRANSFERRING liquids that have already been measured!

4) Why are Arthropods the most diverse? I thought Chordates would be considering all of the different species it contains (from mammals to reptiles to etc.)
C'mon man, we all know insects are the most diverse species of animals, like 5-10 million species of arthropods, due to their diverse reproductive cycles.

 

[dhk2131]

I honestly just gave up after marking 4 questions towards the beginning of the QR (after the ray and the ellipse question... which were back to back). I had 5 mins left but I conceded defeat. RC was also a pain in the arse but doable.

 

[shaidester]

Is RC harder than DAT Bootcamp's on the 2009? I got 19, 17, 23, and 24~ for my scores on Bootcamp for RC.

 

[TheDanger]

Hey guys, just a clarification regarding the buffer question:
The phosphate buffer system operates in the internal fluids of cells.
The bicarbonate buffer system operates in the extracellular fluid.

 

[dhk2131]

I've done one full timed RC on bootcamp ad got a 20 (38/50 questions right). On the 2007, I got 36/50. I would say they were about the same difficulty, but people have said that bootcamp's RC is more challenging (which it is... it has TOO many statement/reason questions.. but I suppose this is now becoming an integral part of RC).

The intracellular vs extracellular is a bit vague. I understand phosphate is the buffer for intracellular (inside cell aka cytosol/cytoplasm) while extracellular is the matrix outside the cell/interstitial fluid; however, the 2009 exam said that the intracellular's main buffer is bicarbonate. Either they mean't intracellular in the context of NOT blood but the smallest organization of a fluid matrix outside the cell (the extracellular space) or they messed up the question (I believe it is the latter).

 

[dhk2131]

On the 2009* (typo in the first sentence. the 2007 exam online doesn't have a full RC).

 

[shaidester]

So in the 2009 one is it harder to S&D?

 

[dhk2131]

I personally don't do search and destroy because I begin to go insane/panic-mode if I get stuck and it just snowballs downhill from there. I did resort to search and destroy AFTER reading the passage, so I knew where to look. The 2009 had a lot of rewording, so it wasn't as efficient to just find the paragraph/line and expect it to reflect the answer verbatim (in other words, some kind of contextual knowledge was needed).

 

[dhk2131]

My exam is in ~50 hours!

Anyone have any advice on what to do these last two days? I went through destroyer pretty much twice (for bio and OC), and have gone through all bootcamp exams (not all of the PAT), and the 2007 + 2009 ADA exams (timed). I figure I should do more GC... but I've been hearing the GC is pretty simple. I've also done most of Chad's quizzes for GC and all for bio, but not that many for orgo.

I was wondering how much content review I should be doing with bio? Seems like there's ALWAYS some trivial information that I can justify being important... like "desmosomes are located in the spinosum layer of the epidermis" etc.

Any input? I haven't done much math, but I had a huge QR fright after the 2009 exam (got a 31/40.. or a 18/19 although i've been getting 25+ on bootcamp's math).

Thanks all! Excited to get this over with

 

[emminent]

I literally just finished counting my score for the 2009 ADA test, which I also took today! It was super annoying coming across so many errors, and I feel like I didn't learn anything new to be honest haha. Could've spent better use of my time, but still, it was the first time I sat down and went through an entire practice test.

My scores:
Bio (22)
OC (22)
GC (22)
PAT (30)
RC (17-19) didnt even bother counting the score.. got so many wrong, and I couldn't bother checking to see if the answer key was correct/incorrect
QR (19) **** that section. definitely won't be as difficult or have as many tedious calculations.

As for your questions:
1) Intracellular buffer is PHOSPHATE correct?
I thought that's what I read in another thread on SDN.. but where did you learn about an "intra-cellular buffering system" specifically? I always assumed "body's buffering system = bicarbonate".

2) I always thought the chorion was the extra-embryonic membrane that reptiles/birds used because I think I've seen a similar question on bootcamp or dat destroyer... but it's allantois? What is it that birds have different to mammals then if not the chorion (I SWEAR there was a question I came across that said birds have the chorion as the extra-embryonic membrane for something.. but maybe not)
I feel your pain on this one, I actually remember that exact question on bootcamp, and it confused me.
Basically, remember that chorion is the outermost layer (just beneath the egg shell) that allows for gas exchange. The allantois is ALSO involved in gas exchange, but always remember to associate allantois with NITROGENOUS WASTE (uric acid for birds). Another caveat that only applies to reptiles/birds is that the chorion and allantois fuse together in later development.

3) WHAT IS THE DAMN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PIPETTE AND BURET. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE A FINALIZED DECISION ON THIS.
The buret allows for the most precise measurements (to the tenth of a mL, like 10.5mL), while pipets are used only for TRANSFERRING liquids that have already been measured!

4) Why are Arthropods the most diverse? I thought Chordates would be considering all of the different species it contains (from mammals to reptiles to etc.)
C'mon man, we all know insects are the most diverse species of animals, like 5-10 million species of arthropods, due to their diverse reproductive cycles.

Like you said chorion and allantois fuse together in later development but wanted to add that it forms into placenta.

My exam is in ~50 hours!

Anyone have any advice on what to do these last two days? I went through destroyer pretty much twice (for bio and OC), and have gone through all bootcamp exams (not all of the PAT), and the 2007 + 2009 ADA exams (timed). I figure I should do more GC... but I've been hearing the GC is pretty simple. I've also done most of Chad's quizzes for GC and all for bio, but not that many for orgo.

I was wondering how much content review I should be doing with bio? Seems like there's ALWAYS some trivial information that I can justify being important... like "desmosomes are located in the spinosum layer of the epidermis" etc.

Any input? I haven't done much math, but I had a huge QR fright after the 2009 exam (got a 31/40.. or a 18/19 although i've been getting 25+ on bootcamp's math).

Thanks all! Excited to get this over with

I think you're good dude if you're getting those scores. 2009 people said had a lot of errors so don't rely on it too much. Just review questions you got wrong in the past and keep watching chad and bio youtube vids.