some very concerning/worrying news - please help

[gearsofwar3]

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I just had a conversation with a key member of my school's pre med committee, and i was told that despite a very strong application (41 MCAT and rock solid everything else), my disciplinary record will most likely prevent me from getting accepted at my top choice schools, namely the upper tier UCs. I was very surprised and concerned, consdiering that I only received a "reprimand", which is the LOWEST level of sanction at my school. Basically, I accidentally took some rare music sheets out of the library when doing a music research project. Those sheets are not supposed to leave the library at all, so the school found me "guilty" of violating this rule. But because everyone knew that it wasn't my intent to steal the sheets, I only received a reprimand. However, the record IS noted on my file and i will have to disclose this on my amcas.

The thing that i cannot understand is this. I personally know three people from my school who were put on probation and/or suspended for cheating and drug violations, and 2 of them successfully got into top 25 schools in the past 2 years. the other person, as i heard, is now attending a T-14 law school. Obviously, their violations were much more serious and the sanctions they received were very harsh. But it seems that none of them had much trouble getting into good professional schools.

I never really liked the particular person on my pre med committee that i just finished talking to. She seemed to think that I stole those music sheets on purpose, and she said that "stealing" is just as bad as "cheating" regardless of the sanction given. I am angry because i DIDN"T steal, and the level of sanction reflects that. Typically, lying and stealing are punished with AT MINIMUM probations at my school. I was merely given a reprimand. Lastly, while the committee member never explicitly said so, I got the sense from our email conversation that she strongly believes that many med schools reject apps marked with IAs regardless of how strong they are otherwise, and that I should just focus on getting in somewhere and give up my goal of attending a UC.

Admittedly, I was quite angry after reading her email, and I sincerely hope that med schools will use some common sense and see that all i did was being clumnsy - i had absolutely no malicious intent when i accidentally removed those music sheets. I am also wondering if med schools, especially competitive ones, truly auto rejects/screens apps based on wheter or nor an applicant checked the IA box. If so, then all my other achievements will be for nothing. I worked my balls off getting that MCAT (over a year studying) and building my app, and I can't imagine not becoming a doctor because of someting like this.

I would really appreciate some of your thoughts, preferably from adcoms and people who have had successful cycles with IAs. thanks.

 

[Bacchus]

If its on your academic record, I believe you have to list the sanction and are able to explain it.

Mistakenly taking sheet music out of the library =/= academic dishonesty/cheating.

 

[BABSstudent]

Don't worry about it. I am sure schools will understand accidentally taking library material out of the library. One thing comes to mind that you may have to explain in the secondaries (there is a space for it on most of the secondaries on institutional action). Did you check the material out, or did you knowingly put it in your backpack and leave?

Assuming you did check it out and did not steal it, did you return the stuff when you were finished? How long did you have it out for? I feel like those are all things that you should explain. These would highlight that you thought it was a normal library item and brought it back in the normal amount of time.

 

[gearsofwar3]

the sheets weren't supposed to leave the library at all - they wre not avaliable for check out. I accidentally placed those sheets in my backpack after I was done and walked out of fthe library, not knowing what i've done. two days later, i got called in to the dean's office. basically, because the music sheets were rare and precious (hence they couldn't leave the library), i did my research in a closely monitored special research room. there were cameras and my actions were caught on tape. when the library found out that some sheets were missing, they looked at the recordings and found out that i took them.

When the dean talked to me and showed me the video, i suddenly realized that i made a dumb dumb mistake. i was aware of the rules, but i still managed to make this mistake out of carelessness. at first, the school suspected that i WAS trying to steal the sheets, but i was able to successfully fight for my case and even had a music professor support me. at the end, the school decided that i didn't have malicious intent (aka i didnt mean to steal), but because i violated a rule, there had to be some consequence. Therefore, i got a reprimand. the fact that i got a record reflects that actions have consequences, but the fact that i got the lowest sanction reflects that this was a careless, not malicious, act.

I have no problems with the school's decision. actions have consequences, and i should have been more careful, especailly when dealing with precious and expensive materials. i was actually lucky that i didnt damage the sheets at all, since they are worth around 5000 dollars per sheet!

I think that everyone who reads my explanation will understand that this is no big deal. but i am afraid that my app will get tossed out in an incident the way appls with 2.5s and 25s are tossed out. as in auto screened out before being read by a human eye. this is why i would appreciate some adcoms' view on this. thanks again!

 

[Ashley1989]

I would take their advice into consideration but ultimately you know what happened and it sounds like you have a solid explanation for it. As others have said, you have a chance to explain yourself so all (in my own humble, inexperienced opinion) is not lost.

A classmate of mine was accused with cheating right before applying, and although he had a good explanation for what happened and didn't cheat, he was charged and it was put on his transcript. Well, he applied to many schools anyways, explained what happened, had many acceptances, and is at UCLA now. Like you he had great stats and a solid explanation for what happened, and it was an innocent mistake. You can't undo what happened, just explain yourself and apply anyways and I really do think many of the schools will realize that they would be crazy to overlook such a great candidate.


Good luck!

 

[wholeheartedly]

I'm not an adcom member and I don't know if they auto screen, but it would seem a bit harsh to get screened out for something like this. Honestly, I'd say be prepared to explain it in secondaries like BABStudent said and maybe interviews and just apply to the schools you'd like a shot at attending unless things are really tight financially.

Let the schools you apply to screen you if they want, not this committee member. Don't decide for them.

My only concern would be if this pre-med committee member is involved in writing a committee letter for you and might exaggerate the severity. Are there other committee members you could discuss this with? Also, is there some sort of official documentation of what happened like "We found that the material appears to have been removed from the premises on accident and as such have chosen a reprimand as a disciplinary action as opposed to probation which would be given in cases of theft." So you after you explain you could write "documentation can be provided upon request." I don't know.


Maybe you could call a school, even one you aren't applying to, and ask them what their view would be? 😕

 

[hizziaips]

OP, will you have (or do you have) a committee letter? Given the conversation you had with your committee, I wonder how your letter will be affected and whether you should forgo it (probably risky with an IA) or include additional recommendations from people who can attest to your integrity.

 

[gearsofwar3]

OP, will you have (or do you have) a committee letter? Given the conversation you had with your committee, I wonder how your letter will be affected and whether you should forgo it (probably risky with an IA) or include additional recommendations from people who can attest to your integrity.

That's EXACTLY one of my major concerns right now. I really don't want anyone exaggerating/falsely reporting this incident. Right now, I dont think i have the courage to bypass the committee letter process. Right now, I am planning on taking some time off and apply june of 2014. so the committee letter, though an important issue, isn't very urgent right now.

 

[ILuvScience]

OP, will you have (or do you have) a committee letter? Given the conversation you had with your committee, I wonder how your letter will be affected and whether you should forgo it (probably risky with an IA) or include additional recommendations from people who can attest to your integrity.

That's what I was thinking as well. My concern would be if she would write you an effed up letter : /


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[Ashley1989]

That's EXACTLY one of my major concerns right now. I really don't want anyone exaggerating/falsely reporting this incident. Right now, I dont think i have the courage to bypass the committee letter process. Right now, I am planning on taking some time off and apply june of 2014. so the committee letter, though an important issue, isn't very urgent right now.

What about you talk to the other members, and also get a letter from the dean and head of the music department to help? Give the letters to the other members..

Just throwing out ideas 🙁 I'm so sorry OP

 

[Nandrolone]

if that person you just spoke to plays a big role in writing committee letters, I would forgo the letter and send individual letters...i feel like she might be your downfall.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

The problem is, some schools require you to have a committee letter if your school offers one.

 

[hmoactktey]

if that person you just spoke to plays a big role in writing committee letters, I would forgo the letter and send individual letters...i feel like she might be your downfall.

Definitely agree with this. You have a chance to explain your mistakes on your application. I know of one person that has gotten in to school with a DUI, which is a little more serious than accidentally walking away with library materials. At most, they might ask you about it in an interview, but I highly doubt they'd screen you out as long as you aren't a repeat offender.

 

[Dream20er]

What about you talk to the other members, and also get a letter from the dean and head of the music department to help? Give the letters to the other members..

Just throwing out ideas 🙁 I'm so sorry OP

+1

Also: Don't get too shaken about this. A mistake was made and the severity of your "punishment" reflects this. And although a crime is a crime...taking sheet music is low on the list of offenses--paired with an explaination (which you should be transparent about) on your app., you will still have a chance.

Don't lose hope. Good luck.

 

[LizzyM]

I don't know about the UC schools but I suspect that private schools in the top 20 will give you a fair review. The only thing even remotely close that I've ever seen was a person who deliberately took other students' laptops from the library and that behavior was considered unacceptable. (I'll spare you the applicant's defense which was shocking.) Absent-mindedly taking sheet music from the library could be an honest mistake and it appears that the school treated it that way. A letter from a person high up in the school who could address the incident and your character might temper anything that the pre-med committee might write. I'd almost be tempted to say that you shouldn't waive your right to review the letter (those rights were meant for these situations where something in the file -- whether correct or not-- that could screw with their future.) At the very least, ask to see your file under FERPA.

 

[TheShaker]

The problem is, some schools require you to have a committee letter if your school offers one.

I think very few schools will give you a hard time about that letter. The only ones that I've found were Albert Einstein, Boston U, and U Maryland and even then it allows you to use individual letters if you have a good explanation (like the OP).

Source: I emailed a LOT of schools asking about their committee letter requirements and almost all of them said that they have no preference and most applicants don't even have that letter.

 

[IlDestriero]

I wouldn't get the committee letter. You're not applying directly anyway, that's your out. Guy sounds like a jerk, just bypass his opinion.

 

[EnginrTheFuture]

I would say accidentally taking something out of a library is the absolute BEST academic sanction I have ever seen. I would read your essay explaining this and you know what I would get out of it? That you are interesting in some cool stuff and spend time in the library learning about it... Yes, if I were on an ADCOM you might be at a slight advantage for stealing the sheets.

 

[I like meowmix]

Dude, as long as you explain this logically, I can't see why people would hold this against you.

 

[LizzyM]

I wouldn't get the committee letter. You're not applying directly anyway, that's your out. Guy sounds like a jerk, just bypass his opinion.

I think that an IA and no letter is a red flag... is the applicant telling the "whole story" or are we getting a half-story. That said, we have to hope that the pre-med advisor isn't out to screw him.

 

[gearsofwar3]

Thanks for all the responses, especially from LizzyM. I have another question. will competitive medical schools hold me to a higher standard than everyone else because i have this deficiency? For example, let's say school A expects 200 hrs and a 33 from its applicants without records, will the school expect, say 500 hrs and a 40 from me in order to consider me as equally competitive? i really hope this isnt the case and that med schools wont hold me up to a much higher standard than everyone else because of this incident. thanks again

 

[LizzyM]

I know only one school, and it has been years since I've been on the subcommittee that discusses IAs.

That said, I would not expect a school to require more volunteerism or better grades of an applicant with an IA. At my school anyway, the IA is discussed and if the application is permitted to go forward then the IA is off the table for further discussion.

 

[Aclamity]

1) with a 41 MCAT and good GPA, if I were an adcom member and saw those stats combined with an IA, I would look at your app merely out of curiosity. Then I'd probably laugh and give you an interview because that is such a BS reason to get reprimanded for.

2) Your school sounds horrible. You shouldn't have been punished for this. This could have happened to anyone who wasn't paying 100% attn to what they're sticking in their backpack and mistakenly stuck a few extra pieces of paper in. There should have been more safeguards on those pages if they were so damn important. If your school can pay to have them in a camera-equipped "special reading room" then they can pay to have them tagged with something that beeps when you walk out of the library. This is a problem with the SYSTEM, not a problem with you. Your school library needs some serious quality improvement.

I hope this all works out for you. You sound like you worked your tail off for med school.