Sometimes I think I want to go back and do a sports fellowship

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oreosandsake

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I convinced one of my juniors during residency that pain was the more worthwhile fellowship and that he didn’t need to do a year training to ice and wrap ankles.

Funny thing is, about 3-4 years into my attending life I realized I was more interested in Msk management. Despite reading and youtubing I have huge gaps in my knowledge. (I should have made more of my residency years )

maybe twice a year I contemplate going back and doing a sports med fellowship. Like Mayo or Stanford. It would hurt financially and I would have to close down my practices… I would also have to do sideline coverage which sounds miserable, amongst other issues that would rationally outweigh the idea of going back to training.

Anyone do this? Go back for a second fellowship after years on the job? For reference I’ve been out of training for a decade.

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I guess the Q is, where do I go get really good Msk training? I don’t know if going back to fellowship and having to report to an attending 1-2 years out of training is going to jive with me either
 
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If sports medicine PM&R docs can do a few courses and call themselves pain doctors, why do you have to do a full fellowship
True. But the local Chiro and naturopath call themselves pain docs too. 😵‍💫 I want to be better than the doc that takes a weekend cadaver course
 
True. But the local Chiro and naturopath call themselves pain docs too. 😵‍💫 I want to be better than the doc that takes a weekend cadaver course
your training and interest already make you better than the doc that only takes a weekend course.


dont close the practice. contact your prior residency/fellowship program and see if they can help set you up to shadow the sports med program for a month to get more in depth training. essentially a one month sabbatical.

would suggest some time in the spring (the fellows are well trained by then and would probably love the help)

much of fellowship training is how to start from the beginning, and you dont need that.



then reopen and rebrand your clinic as a sports med/pain clinic.
 
Closing your practice seems like an awfully big step to get a new speciality where you don’t even want to do some of the major time sucks like sideline coverage.

If it’s mainly the knowledge you’re after, if you have a sports med program local to you, see if they’d be interested in sort of a quid pro quo trade - you spend time with them, and their fellows spend some time with you.
 
I would suspect that being trained in pain medicine you can already do all of the procedures that a non-ortho sports medicine fellowship would teach you (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). So you're just looking for the knowledge component right?


 
I convinced one of my juniors during residency that pain was the more worthwhile fellowship and that he didn’t need to do a year training to ice and wrap ankles.

Funny thing is, about 3-4 years into my attending life I realized I was more interested in Msk management. Despite reading and youtubing I have huge gaps in my knowledge. (I should have made more of my residency years )

maybe twice a year I contemplate going back and doing a sports med fellowship. Like Mayo or Stanford. It would hurt financially and I would have to close down my practices… I would also have to do sideline coverage which sounds miserable, amongst other issues that would rationally outweigh the idea of going back to training.

Anyone do this? Go back for a second fellowship after years on the job? For reference I’ve been out of training for a decade.

Bruh? You don't need a sports fellowship. Just attend the ACSM conferences and board review courses.

I went back and did a health policy fellowship but was able to do it while working full-time because it wasn't a clinical fellowship. It would be the kiss of death to take that much time away from your business.
 
Don't close your practice. Try to find some conferences/courses to practice with ultrasound. Check this website out, I think its $60 per year. Pretty good for basics and also has a ton of videos for diagnostic/procedure ultrasound. Worth it in my opinion.

 
That’s the thing. Oreos is already bonkers good at ultrasound. I don’t know what else the fellowship can teach him. Maybe join CrossFit or something to meet crazy wannabe athletes
 
I admire your dedication to furthering your knowledge base. I agree you don't need to close your practice down or do a fellowship.

Gonna look for the lectures from my sports rotation during residency to share with you.
 
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I admire your interest in sports. I used to love sports and even got BC'd (grandfathered in). I used to see more sports patients in my last practice - they somehow drove me more insane than pain patients. They were either 55 y/o women who could no longer ultramarathon and wanted me to somehow fix that, or it was a 15 y/o who is the next Tom Brady and has to be out of concussion protocol by tomorrow or else his career is completely over (per dad). No thanks. I'm not going to recertify my sports next time around.

Fellowship would be a huge hassle. I would just get in with a local ortho sports doc and learn the ropes that way. Read a ton too. The board certification itself is completely worthless.
 
I admire your interest in sports. I used to love sports and even got BC'd (grandfathered in). I used to see more sports patients in my last practice - they somehow drove me more insane than pain patients. They were either 55 y/o women who could no longer ultramarathon and wanted me to somehow fix that, or it was a 15 y/o who is the next Tom Brady and has to be out of concussion protocol by tomorrow or else his career is completely over (per dad). No thanks. I'm not going to recertify my sports next time around.

Fellowship would be a huge hassle. I would just get in with a local ortho sports doc and learn the ropes that way. Read a ton too. The board certification itself is completely worthless.
If sports medicine PM&R docs can do a few courses and call themselves pain doctors, why do you have to do a full fellowship
As one of the above and still seeing 30% sports patients I much prefer the spine patients I manage.

Medicare aged people who want to be able to walk around the grocery store easier and play with their grandkids are much more enjoyable to help than the 55-want to be-18 crowd and the families who don't understand playing the same sport 11 months per year is unreasonable.

If you want to learn sports and have no interest in being a team physician watch the AMSSM YouTube videos and utilize Brukner & Khan textbooks.
 
if you apply they’ll prob offer you the PD position…

What specific skillset are you looking for? Fracture care? Sideline coverage?
I want to be like Jay Smith, Jon Finnoff, or Stanley Lam.

Maybe sports docs in the community still see similar patients as I do now
 
Used to rotate with a “sports guy” at Baylor. He was a total flake even though he wrote articles for lots of magazines. You can do better. Ortho conferences will expand your horizon. Plenty of conferences you can do on your own.
 
I want to be like Jay Smith, Jon Finnoff, or Stanley Lam.

Maybe sports docs in the community still see similar patients as I do now

All outstanding Dudes. But, you'd be surprised how much they would be willing to trade places with you.
 
I want to be like Jay Smith, Jon Finnoff, or Stanley Lam.

Maybe sports docs in the community still see similar patients as I do now
I worked with some really high level sports people (NBA team docs/Olympic track team physicians) and 80% of their practice was Medicare knee/hip OA. They punted quickly on spine. Over a decade ago, they were dabbling in regen.

I can't imagine you'd find a fellowship where the faculty weren't asking for a discount to attend YOUR courses. I'm on board with the continuous quest for learning, but most of the sports field worth learning (Not acute/sideline mgmt.) is evolving, and you're on the leading edge of that.

It really sounds like you need a vacation or hobby. I mean a real vacation, not just going to hang out in a hotel conference room in a nice locale.

The only thing I can think of that's worse for your career/financial situation/overall well-being than closing up shop for a sports fellowship would be having 3 kids. I likewise don't recommend this.
 
thanks for talking me off the ledge (for this year... hahah)

I'll keep up with the youtube, and those links everyone posted. look into an ortho conference or two.

It's tough trying to learn this all from youtube. I’ve spent countless hours this past month studying the elbow. scouring pubmed for a good dissection. looking at MRI vs US. the problem with some of this stuff is that resources can differ. you think you've figured it out and then you read another "good source" and it says differently... I was kinda hoping that fellowship could spoonfeed me some of these things 🤣

also maybe bit of grass is greener thoughts. I tire of chronic pain visits... some times.
 
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I want to be like Jay Smith, Jon Finnoff, or Stanley Lam.

Maybe sports docs in the community still see similar patients as I do now
sorry but I gotta puncture this delusion - Jay and Jon are in a fairy tale, ivory tower. They sort of dabbled in spine for a bit but said to hell with this once PM&R sports got a legit ACGME fellowship, US took off, and Mayo set up shop in twin cities and got all the pro teams. How do you think they lured Jon out of Tahoe? They gets to play with new US toys all the time and build CTS surgery and various minimally invasive gadgets. They earned it, but you gotta be realistic here my friend.

Anyways, you are stuck being PM&R , change that and then you can have your sports dream. If you are PM&R sports you still get spine/pain dumped on by ortho and FP/ER/Peds sports. You get all that crap they don't wanna see. You are lowest on the totem pole for getting sports coverage - and you never get paid for it. NHL won't let PM&R on the sports med team, Stanford PM&R sports can't even cover their own football team. A lot of leagues want ER sports now, and ortho will never give anything up unless it's garbage.

If you are seriously considerng a PM&R sports fellowship, you are starting from the wrong frame. Go do ortho
 
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I would suspect that being trained in pain medicine you can already do all of the procedures that a non-ortho sports medicine fellowship would teach you (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). So you're just looking for the knowledge component right?



thanks, this would be a smaller investment than a year off.
 
thanks, this would be a smaller investment than a year off.
Dude
You are already the guru on ultrasound.

What else is there to Sports medicine? You know where to inject. It's probably what you inject that would be different (prp, msc,etc)
 
I worked with some really high level sports people (NBA team docs/Olympic track team physicians) and 80% of their practice was Medicare knee/hip OA. They punted quickly on spine. Over a decade ago, they were dabbling in regen.

I can't imagine you'd find a fellowship where the faculty weren't asking for a discount to attend YOUR courses. I'm on board with the continuous quest for learning, but most of the sports field worth learning (Not acute/sideline mgmt.) is evolving, and you're on the leading edge of that.

It really sounds like you need a vacation or hobby. I mean a real vacation, not just going to hang out in a hotel conference room in a nice locale.

The only thing I can think of that's worse for your career/financial situation/overall well-being than closing up shop for a sports fellowship would be having kids. I likewise don't recommend this.
Fixed it for you
 
thanks for talking me off the ledge (for this year... hahah)

I'll keep up with the youtube, and those links everyone posted. look into an ortho conference or two.

It's tough trying to learn this all from youtube. I’ve spent countless hours this past month studying the elbow. scouring pubmed for a good dissection. looking at MRI vs US. the problem with some of this stuff is that resources can differ. you think you've figured it out and then you read another "good source" and it says differently... I was kinda hoping that fellowship could spoonfeed me some of these things 🤣

also maybe bit of grass is greener thoughts. I tire of chronic pain visits... some times.

I agree with most of what was said here. A sports fellowship would teach you little you don’t already know.

What you need most is a different practice environment. Seeing the dregs of society doing pain in a county hospital would drive me insane. I expect that is the biggest issue here.

If you want to do both pain and sports to blend your skillsets, I’d suggest a good ortho group.

Most ortho group pain docs do zero chronic med management. You can do just spine (without opioids) or split your time 50/50 etc with peripheral joint/sports work, or 80/20 in favor of sports.
Plenty of well known places like Jobe in LA, SOAR in SF, Steadman in Vail, etc would likely be interested in you.
 
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I was the head team physician at SEC school once upon a time. Given the current environment of sports, NIL, etc. you would need significant liability + compensation to deal with the headaches. I'd go back and do soccer or hockey again ... but football or basketball is just a huge headache in exchange for some private jet trips (do good at money management and buy your own/afford to charter).

The "big time" team doc stuff is 10% really really cool, 90% dealing with politics/agents/coaches. That is most of the "learning real sports medicine/team physcian" stuff that a sports fellowship provides beyond MSK ... how to navigate the competing factors and a bit of sideline emergency stuff.

I'll take my community joint OA, spine, reasonable weekend warriors, etc. any time for what a non-surgeon can offer.
 
I was the head team physician at SEC school once upon a time. Given the current environment of sports, NIL, etc. you would need significant liability + compensation to deal with the headaches. I'd go back and do soccer or hockey again ... but football or basketball is just a huge headache in exchange for some private jet trips (do good at money management and buy your own/afford to charter).

The "big time" team doc stuff is 10% really really cool, 90% dealing with politics/agents/coaches. That is most of the "learning real sports medicine/team physcian" stuff that a sports fellowship provides beyond MSK ... how to navigate the competing factors and a bit of sideline emergency stuff.

I'll take my community joint OA, spine, reasonable weekend warriors, etc. any time for what a non-surgeon can offer.
You’re way better at medicine and money management (or both) than I am if buying a jet is part of your plans.
 
I would really doubt that the faculty at 99% of sports med programs know more about anatomy and ultrasound than you do. It would be like me saying that I want to do an advanced pain procedure fellowship to get better at putting in perc leads. I’m already there and it would be a huge waste of time/money.
 
You should be specific about what it is you hope to gain from fellowship. Medical training at fellowship level is just supervised practice. Getting the knowledge into your head and doing the reps is still on you. If you're already a pain fellowship trained physician with years of practice experience, what specifically do you need the fellowship for? I think if you reflect on that question and articulate exactly what you're looking for (and don't have), you'll see that fellowship is unnecessary.

The knowledge component can be gained easily now (and truth is, even as a fellow, you'd be expected to read these on your own)

Are there specific procedures you want to learn? I doubt there is anything advanced with an ultrasound that can't already do.
These are the books that our sports fellows read

Not trying to diminish what sports (or pain fellows) do during training, but if you break it down, it becomes clear that it's a mixture of reading and supervised doing, and at this stage, you can read on your own, and you don't need the supervision (to be safe). Just go to some weekend courses if there are some fancy MSK US-guided procedures you want some feedback on.

That's my 2 cents. Huge opportunity cost to shut your practice.
 
You should be specific about what it is you hope to gain from fellowship. Medical training at fellowship level is just supervised practice. Getting the knowledge into your head and doing the reps is still on you. If you're already a pain fellowship trained physician with years of practice experience, what specifically do you need the fellowship for? I think if you reflect on that question and articulate exactly what you're looking for (and don't have), you'll see that fellowship is unnecessary.

The knowledge component can be gained easily now (and truth is, even as a fellow, you'd be expected to read these on your own)

Are there specific procedures you want to learn? I doubt there is anything advanced with an ultrasound that can't already do.
These are the books that our sports fellows read

Not trying to diminish what sports (or pain fellows) do during training, but if you break it down, it becomes clear that it's a mixture of reading and supervised doing, and at this stage, you can read on your own, and you don't need the supervision (to be safe). Just go to some weekend courses if there are some fancy MSK US-guided procedures you want some feedback on.

That's my 2 cents. Huge opportunity cost to shut your practice.
Thank you
 
sorry but I gotta puncture this delusion - Jay and Jon are in a fairy tale, ivory tower. They sort of dabbled in spine for a bit but said to hell with this once PM&R sports got a legit ACGME fellowship, US took off, and Mayo set up shop in twin cities and got all the pro teams. How do you think they lured Jon out of Tahoe? They gets to play with new US toys all the time and build CTS surgery and various minimally invasive gadgets. They earned it, but you gotta be realistic here my friend.

Anyways, you are stuck being PM&R , change that and then you can have your sports dream. If you are PM&R sports you still get spine/pain dumped on by ortho and FP/ER/Peds sports. You get all that crap they don't wanna see. You are lowest on the totem pole for getting sports coverage - and you never get paid for it. NHL won't let PM&R on the sports med team, Stanford PM&R sports can't even cover their own football team. A lot of leagues want ER sports now, and ortho will never give anything up unless it's garbage.

If you are seriously considerng a PM&R sports fellowship, you are starting from the wrong frame. Go do ortho
Mautner covers the Atlanta hawks…
 
Mautner covers the Atlanta hawks…
that's NBA bro, I said NHL. but go on, tell me more...
deadpool-hello.gif


or you can enlighten me on what the F happened with Arthur De Luigi ?
Prominent doctor arrested for allegedly assaulting woman at WM Phoenix Open
 
that's NBA bro, I said NHL. but go on, tell me more...View attachment 390993

or you can enlighten me on what the F happened with Arthur De Luigi ?
Prominent doctor arrested for allegedly assaulting woman at WM Phoenix Open
Holy sh$t?!?!??

To be fair, everyone was drunk at the phoenix open, but wow.
 
Just saw a 14 y/o with a now healed spondy. Mom and dad in with him. Mom trying to convince me to tell him he can't play FB anymore. Dad wanting to release to play ASAP. If they aren't divorced, it's probably imminent. You could cut the tension with a knife. Not my job to tell you if your kid SHOULD play. Mmmmm....fun.
 
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Just saw a 14 y/o with a now healed spondy. Mom and dad in with him. Mom trying to convince me to tell him he can't play FB anymore. Dad wanting to release to play ASAP. If they aren't divorced, it's probably imminent. You could cut the tension with a knife. Not my job to tell you if your kid SHOULD play. Mmmmm....fun.

I previously had great interest in non operative sports medicine as a resident.

Now I greatly prefer that my patients are all>25, have spine issues, have insurance, and have real problems to treat because its rewarding to do a procedure that makes a difference and that pays me better than clinic negotiations with teenage athletes/parents or OCD long distance athletes.
 
....

Anyone do this? Go back for a second fellowship after years on the job? For reference I’ve been out of training for a decade.
This thread is interesting to me. I'm an ED attending 9 years out of residency, and I'm strongly considering going back to a sports med fellowship. I would be applying next year and starting 2026 in an ideal world. The info and recommendations given here have been awesome, like the books referenced by @drg123 .


I think my exposure to injections and procedures is middle of the road, but definitely not as much as you guys in PM&R/pain or anesthesia. But I can hold my own with an ultrasound probe, and use it for tough vascular access regularly to help my nurses. I do anatomical nerve blocks for small procedures and my joint arthocentesis, plus, I have done a few handfuls of fascia iliaca blocks for hip fractures.

I've done some shadowing at a local D1 sports clinic and have seen the variety of patients that come in. I initially got interested in medicine during college when I joined the local ski patrol, and reflecting on that over the last year while discussing it with my wife, the MSK injuries and treatment are what really had my interest. Multiple friends and work exposures led me to pursuing EM as a career, but to be completely honest, I didn't have a great clinic exposure or role model to discuss other options.

Reasons I'm looking for a change:

1. Longevity. The ED is soul crushing, and something in society has changed post Covid that has made it worse for us. I don't want to do this for another 20-30 years. Sports med? I'd be happy to, especially since the town I'm in has none and I could provide a needed service. I've worked at smaller EDs and different locations, but I think I'm browned out from the ED itself and looking for something with less cortisol spiking for a better career and work enjoyment. I still love medicine.

2. Patient populations. The ED sees all comers. I definitely like being able to order what I feel is necessary and treat patients without worrying about insurance issues, but...it also leads to so much unnecessary testing when folks aren't able to have a discussion or think in a rational way during a crisis or at 3 a.m. I know the patients that I send out to 'follow up in clinic' are who the sports med patients will ultimately be, but I'm OK with that. I also am more interested in working with patients who want to get back to well, vs 'just gimme some more pills, doc.' I know some of the spine and chronic pain patients are like this as well, but with protocols and proper treatment, the answer can be, 'sorry we can't do anything else for you.'

3. I find that I like MSK complaints acutely, concussion management and follow up is an interest of mine, and, most importantly, I think I'd be good as a sports medicine doc. I like sideline/event medicine, and I like being to one folks turn to for help when issues arise (part of what drew me to EM).


Anywho, since this is a post about going back to fellowship after being in private practice, I have some questions for the hive mind here.

A. LORs - I'm thinking my current medical director, maybe my personnel director of the group (went to residency with them so I've known them for quite a while), and a long time friend who is also a sports med doc. Would a letter from my residency program director be helpful/necessary. He retired and my old Asst PD is in charge now, but would it matter 10 years out?

B. Is it even necessary? Am I being crazy? The directed knowledge is part of the reason I want to go back to fellowship, but also the networking. I think my competency and confidence in the field will be greater with a fellowship under my belt. Being a D1 or pro team doc would be cool, but I don't know that I need that, honestly. We have a local university with multiple teams, and our local ortho clinic has had a non op sports med ortho doc that and I think I could make that work for me.

C. Would I be better off just reading a few of the texts and going to conferences to make this switch? I'm just worried about job searching afterwards and actually getting anyone to hire me with only the EM cert and a proclaimed interested in SM.


Money isn't a huge deal, wife's loans are paid off, cars are paid off, we are DINKWADS and happy where we are. My loans will be under 6 figures by the end of the year, and hopefully paid off by the end of next year or before fellowship starts. Wife has a good/solid position and is on the hospital insurance plan I can slide onto.


Again, am I crazy? Also, tips/tricks/suggestions are definitely welcomed.
 
This thread is interesting to me. I'm an ED attending 9 years out of residency, and I'm strongly considering going back to a sports med fellowship. I would be applying next year and starting 2026 in an ideal world. The info and recommendations given here have been awesome, like the books referenced by @drg123 .


I think my exposure to injections and procedures is middle of the road, but definitely not as much as you guys in PM&R/pain or anesthesia. But I can hold my own with an ultrasound probe, and use it for tough vascular access regularly to help my nurses. I do anatomical nerve blocks for small procedures and my joint arthocentesis, plus, I have done a few handfuls of fascia iliaca blocks for hip fractures.

I've done some shadowing at a local D1 sports clinic and have seen the variety of patients that come in. I initially got interested in medicine during college when I joined the local ski patrol, and reflecting on that over the last year while discussing it with my wife, the MSK injuries and treatment are what really had my interest. Multiple friends and work exposures led me to pursuing EM as a career, but to be completely honest, I didn't have a great clinic exposure or role model to discuss other options.

Reasons I'm looking for a change:

1. Longevity. The ED is soul crushing, and something in society has changed post Covid that has made it worse for us. I don't want to do this for another 20-30 years. Sports med? I'd be happy to, especially since the town I'm in has none and I could provide a needed service. I've worked at smaller EDs and different locations, but I think I'm browned out from the ED itself and looking for something with less cortisol spiking for a better career and work enjoyment. I still love medicine.

2. Patient populations. The ED sees all comers. I definitely like being able to order what I feel is necessary and treat patients without worrying about insurance issues, but...it also leads to so much unnecessary testing when folks aren't able to have a discussion or think in a rational way during a crisis or at 3 a.m. I know the patients that I send out to 'follow up in clinic' are who the sports med patients will ultimately be, but I'm OK with that. I also am more interested in working with patients who want to get back to well, vs 'just gimme some more pills, doc.' I know some of the spine and chronic pain patients are like this as well, but with protocols and proper treatment, the answer can be, 'sorry we can't do anything else for you.'

3. I find that I like MSK complaints acutely, concussion management and follow up is an interest of mine, and, most importantly, I think I'd be good as a sports medicine doc. I like sideline/event medicine, and I like being to one folks turn to for help when issues arise (part of what drew me to EM).


Anywho, since this is a post about going back to fellowship after being in private practice, I have some questions for the hive mind here.

A. LORs - I'm thinking my current medical director, maybe my personnel director of the group (went to residency with them so I've known them for quite a while), and a long time friend who is also a sports med doc. Would a letter from my residency program director be helpful/necessary. He retired and my old Asst PD is in charge now, but would it matter 10 years out?

B. Is it even necessary? Am I being crazy? The directed knowledge is part of the reason I want to go back to fellowship, but also the networking. I think my competency and confidence in the field will be greater with a fellowship under my belt. Being a D1 or pro team doc would be cool, but I don't know that I need that, honestly. We have a local university with multiple teams, and our local ortho clinic has had a non op sports med ortho doc that and I think I could make that work for me.

C. Would I be better off just reading a few of the texts and going to conferences to make this switch? I'm just worried about job searching afterwards and actually getting anyone to hire me with only the EM cert and a proclaimed interested in SM.


Money isn't a huge deal, wife's loans are paid off, cars are paid off, we are DINKWADS and happy where we are. My loans will be under 6 figures by the end of the year, and hopefully paid off by the end of next year or before fellowship starts. Wife has a good/solid position and is on the hospital insurance plan I can slide onto.


Again, am I crazy? Also, tips/tricks/suggestions are definitely welcomed.

Sports medicine "as advertised" and "the real world" are very different beasts. Many FPs start out thinking that they'll do a sports fellowship, join an FP group, and be the "sports guy/gal." Instead, they do all the school physicals, MAYBE a little office-based fracture care, and running interference for the orthopods.

For PM&R, it can be worse. Endless Friday night lights on the sidelines waiting for lateral ankle sprains, countless hours spent in the wrestling room chatting up athletic trainers, and doing everything possible to cut in line in front of the PTs, chiros, and everyone else can be humiliating.
 
This thread is interesting to me. I'm an ED attending 9 years out of residency, and I'm strongly considering going back to a sports med fellowship. I would be applying next year and starting 2026 in an ideal world. The info and recommendations given here have been awesome, like the books referenced by @drg123 .


I think my exposure to injections and procedures is middle of the road, but definitely not as much as you guys in PM&R/pain or anesthesia. But I can hold my own with an ultrasound probe, and use it for tough vascular access regularly to help my nurses. I do anatomical nerve blocks for small procedures and my joint arthocentesis, plus, I have done a few handfuls of fascia iliaca blocks for hip fractures.

I've done some shadowing at a local D1 sports clinic and have seen the variety of patients that come in. I initially got interested in medicine during college when I joined the local ski patrol, and reflecting on that over the last year while discussing it with my wife, the MSK injuries and treatment are what really had my interest. Multiple friends and work exposures led me to pursuing EM as a career, but to be completely honest, I didn't have a great clinic exposure or role model to discuss other options.

Reasons I'm looking for a change:

1. Longevity. The ED is soul crushing, and something in society has changed post Covid that has made it worse for us. I don't want to do this for another 20-30 years. Sports med? I'd be happy to, especially since the town I'm in has none and I could provide a needed service. I've worked at smaller EDs and different locations, but I think I'm browned out from the ED itself and looking for something with less cortisol spiking for a better career and work enjoyment. I still love medicine.

2. Patient populations. The ED sees all comers. I definitely like being able to order what I feel is necessary and treat patients without worrying about insurance issues, but...it also leads to so much unnecessary testing when folks aren't able to have a discussion or think in a rational way during a crisis or at 3 a.m. I know the patients that I send out to 'follow up in clinic' are who the sports med patients will ultimately be, but I'm OK with that. I also am more interested in working with patients who want to get back to well, vs 'just gimme some more pills, doc.' I know some of the spine and chronic pain patients are like this as well, but with protocols and proper treatment, the answer can be, 'sorry we can't do anything else for you.'

3. I find that I like MSK complaints acutely, concussion management and follow up is an interest of mine, and, most importantly, I think I'd be good as a sports medicine doc. I like sideline/event medicine, and I like being to one folks turn to for help when issues arise (part of what drew me to EM).


Anywho, since this is a post about going back to fellowship after being in private practice, I have some questions for the hive mind here.

A. LORs - I'm thinking my current medical director, maybe my personnel director of the group (went to residency with them so I've known them for quite a while), and a long time friend who is also a sports med doc. Would a letter from my residency program director be helpful/necessary. He retired and my old Asst PD is in charge now, but would it matter 10 years out?

B. Is it even necessary? Am I being crazy? The directed knowledge is part of the reason I want to go back to fellowship, but also the networking. I think my competency and confidence in the field will be greater with a fellowship under my belt. Being a D1 or pro team doc would be cool, but I don't know that I need that, honestly. We have a local university with multiple teams, and our local ortho clinic has had a non op sports med ortho doc that and I think I could make that work for me.

C. Would I be better off just reading a few of the texts and going to conferences to make this switch? I'm just worried about job searching afterwards and actually getting anyone to hire me with only the EM cert and a proclaimed interested in SM.


Money isn't a huge deal, wife's loans are paid off, cars are paid off, we are DINKWADS and happy where we are. My loans will be under 6 figures by the end of the year, and hopefully paid off by the end of next year or before fellowship starts. Wife has a good/solid position and is on the hospital insurance plan I can slide onto.


Again, am I crazy? Also, tips/tricks/suggestions are definitely welcomed.

My only suggestion would be to shadow a non operative sports med doc in private practice. It’s not a given that you will get a D1 job as those are highly sought after and very competitive. D1 jobs also frequently require a move to a new city. Perfectly fine to want the D1 job and if you’re quite flexible about location, then D1 job is easier to get, but not a given.
But I’d recommend you also shadow a PP non operative sports doc, and confirm you are ok with that type of job as well.

If so, then I’d say go ahead and do the sports fellowship, you’ll enjoy the sports med practice far more than the ED for the next 20 years, particularly as you sound like you’re about 40yrs. Dealing with EM really begins to wear on docs in their 40s and 50s, and then only gets worse as you get older.
 
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Sports medicine "as advertised" and "the real world" are very different beasts. Many FPs start out thinking that they'll do a sports fellowship, join an FP group, and be the "sports guy/gal." Instead, they do all the school physicals, MAYBE a little office-based fracture care, and running interference for the orthopods.

For PM&R, it can be worse. Endless Friday night lights on the sidelines waiting for lateral ankle sprains, countless hours spent in the wrestling room chatting up athletic trainers, and doing everything possible to cut in line in front of the PTs, chiros, and everyone else can be humiliating.

You know EM is a dumpster fire when they flock towards sports med as an escape haha
 
You know EM is a dumpster fire when they flock towards sports med as an escape haha
The dumpster is getting stinkier and fire intensifying every year. In addition to the actual work, the pay is literally dropping more than any other specialty. I hear people crying on this forum about pain reimbursements, but know it can always be worse.

5 year inflation adjusted compensation change: -20%



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that's NBA bro, I said NHL. but go on, tell me more...View attachment 390993

or you can enlighten me on what the F happened with Arthur De Luigi ?
Prominent doctor arrested for allegedly assaulting woman at WM Phoenix Open
those academic docs are the bestest
 
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