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flash14

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I am an attending 3 years out of residency. Still paying off loans and my wife and I have 3 children. I am currently working in the midwest in what I assume is a relatively high paying area. I currently am making around $270/hour. The long winters have gotten to me beyond belief. I don't think I can take another winter here. My wife and I (she is an RN) have decided to finally make a move after being in the midwest too long (we both grew up here). I have been looking into the southeast since it fills our dream of warmer weather and I assumed I would get paid much better than the west coast.

Things we would like to have.
Close to the ocean, even if its a long day trip
Warmer weather
Pay that is not terrible to compared to what I have.

With 3 young children she currently works a 0.6 and takes the brunt of the child care. Eventually we are looking at her going to a casual position. I don't care about the heat and humidity as I figure it is better than 6 months of winter. I would even take somewhat cold but not the frigid winters with tons of snow that we have.

As I have looked into the southeast I have been discouraged. A lot of if is controlled by team health offering $200/hr for an IC. I currently have full benefits at my current wage. I have had less than stellar responses from the private groups I have reached out to. We don't have any ties to specific locations in the SE other than wanting a change. I haven't looked into Florida mostly because of my thoughts of the med-mal climate there. I have looked into Virginia, NC, SC, and GA so far. Anyone that has some ideas for me to look into?


Thanks
 
Lol team health is playing with you the going rate for the SE is 250. You can add and subtract a little given on the city lol even Apollo pays more than 200.

Also not hard to drive an hour to get 250+ how are you looking?

There are some hospitals in SC that are desperate for doctors
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
Lol team health is playing with you the going rate for the SE is 250. You can add and subtract a little given on the city lol even Apollo pays more than 200.

Also not hard to drive an hour to get 250+ how are you looking?

There are some hospitals in SC that are desperate for doctors
Click to expand...
Yep, I'm FM and get calls about working in some of our EDs quite often.

www.practicelink.com

Search Jobs on PracticeLink

Search Jobs on PracticeLink
www.practicelink.com www.practicelink.com
 
flash14 said:
I am an attending 3 years out of residency. Still paying off loans and my wife and I have 3 children. I am currently working in the midwest in what I assume is a relatively high paying area. I currently am making around $270/hour. The long winters have gotten to me beyond belief. I don't think I can take another winter here. My wife and I (she is an RN) have decided to finally make a move after being in the midwest too long (we both grew up here). I have been looking into the southeast since it fills our dream of warmer weather and I assumed I would get paid much better than the west coast.

Things we would like to have.
Close to the ocean, even if its a long day trip
Warmer weather
Pay that is not terrible to compared to what I have.

With 3 young children she currently works a 0.6 and takes the brunt of the child care. Eventually we are looking at her going to a casual position. I don't care about the heat and humidity as I figure it is better than 6 months of winter. I would even take somewhat cold but not the frigid winters with tons of snow that we have.

As I have looked into the southeast I have been discouraged. A lot of if is controlled by team health offering $200/hr for an IC. I currently have full benefits at my current wage. I have had less than stellar responses from the private groups I have reached out to. We don't have any ties to specific locations in the SE other than wanting a change. I haven't looked into Florida mostly because of my thoughts of the med-mal climate there. I have looked into Virginia, NC, SC, and GA so far. Anyone that has some ideas for me to look into?


Thanks
Click to expand...

Well, just keep in mind that "warmer weather" can sometimes mean ridiculously hot, sticky, humid, sweltering summer days depending on where you want to go. Some summer days here are so hot, I can't even take my dog outside for fear that he might have a heat stroke. You say you don't mind it, but I've lived in this heat my entire life and can tell you I've never gotten used to it. It's 10x worse than a dry Arizona heat d/t all the humidity. If you're already making $270/hr I sincerely doubt that you're going to top that at most places in the SE. That's a good compensation and you are probably already in the top 10% nationwide. If you guys have family and connections in the midwest, really think it over and decide if cold winters are that big of a deal. Can you travel more during winter to warmer locations? If so, that would be an infinitely less expensive solution to your problem.

Team is throughout the SE, so it's worth looking at some of their sites. Apollo also... If you pick GA, Apollo is based there, so you might want to give them some analysis as they have a lot of sites within the state. Don't forget TN.

Honestly though, if you've got a decent work environment, I'd really think long and hard before giving up your current compensation. It might be easier to spend a little extra on travel during the winter months to fly somewhere warm.

If you're that committed to chasing the weather, then it will be hard to beat Florida. Yes, medmal risk is higher but hey....plenty of people still practice there. It hasn't stopped @RustedFox

Have you considered TX?
 
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Groove said:
Well, just keep in mind that "warmer weather" can sometimes mean ridiculously hot, sticky, humid, sweltering summer days depending on where you want to go. Some summer days here are so hot, I can't even take my dog outside for fear that he might have a heat stroke. You say you don't mind it, but I've lived in this heat my entire life and can tell you I've never gotten used to it. It's 10x worse than a dry Arizona heat d/t all the humidity. If you're already making $270/hr I sincerely doubt that you're going to top that at most places in the SE. That's a good compensation and you are probably already in the top 10% nationwide. If you guys have family and connections in the midwest, really think it over and decide if cold winters are that big of a deal. Can you travel more during winter to warmer locations? If so, that would be an infinitely less expensive solution to your problem.

Team is throughout the SE, so it's worth looking at some of their sites. Apollo also... If you pick GA, Apollo is based there, so you might want to give them some analysis as they have a lot of sites within the state. Don't forget TN.

Honestly though, if you've got a decent work environment, I'd really think long and hard before giving up your current compensation. It might be easier to spend a little extra on travel during the winter months to fly somewhere warm.
Click to expand...

After income taxes, which some of the South doesn’t have (TX, TN, FL), $270/hr doesn’t look as hot. I just moved from the Midwest and will take home the same as my buddies that make $50k more per year due to taxes alone.
 
Fox800 said:
After income taxes, which some of the South doesn’t have (TX, TN, FL), $270/hr doesn’t look as hot. I just moved from the Midwest and will take home the same as my buddies that make $50k more per year due to taxes alone.
Click to expand...

Generally, taxes in the SE are much lower than taxes elsewhere.
 
Groove said:
Well, just keep in mind that "warmer weather" can sometimes mean ridiculously hot, sticky, humid, sweltering summer days depending on where you want to go. Some summer days here are so hot, I can't even take my dog outside for fear that he might have a heat stroke. You say you don't mind it, but I've lived in this heat my entire life and can tell you I've never gotten used to it. It's 10x worse than a dry Arizona heat d/t all the humidity. If you're already making $270/hr I sincerely doubt that you're going to top that at most places in the SE. That's a good compensation and you are probably already in the top 10% nationwide. If you guys have family and connections in the midwest, really think it over and decide if cold winters are that big of a deal. Can you travel more during winter to warmer locations? If so, that would be an infinitely less expensive solution to your problem.
Click to expand...

The other angle to consider is the likelihood of natural disasters. Many of the warmer, coastal areas are becoming increasingly vulnerable to hurricanes, and if you don't think it's only going to get worse, you are kidding yourself. Atlanta might be a nice compromise though.
 
Fox800 said:
After income taxes, which some of the South doesn’t have (TX, TN, FL), $270/hr doesn’t look as hot. I just moved from the Midwest and will take home the same as my buddies that make $50k more per year due to taxes alone.
Click to expand...

No state income tax in Florida or Texas.
 
If you want low COL Tennessee is pretty good. IN the nashville area getting a job with an SDG is near impossible as there is no advertisement and the location is so desireable that its fairly insular. That being said you can get a job for 250-270+/hr. PM me if you want details. NO state income tax, great schools and a decent med mal environment. you are 8 hours or so from Destin, Orange Beach and even the beaches of SoCar. NOt too far to Jekyll Island either.
 
Don't come to Florida.

1.) Florida has two seasons: too damn hot to want to go outside, and too many damn snowbirds to want to go outside.
2.) A Florida Man lives here.
3.) Med-mal climate is awful (sure), as is the proliferation of CMG-residencies.
4.) The beach is nice, if you can find parking within 2-3 miles and then want to go hang out with a bunch of whiny and entitled Noo Yawk'uhs and Baaaahstanites.
5.) Traffic. Traffic. Traffic. Traffic.
 
A few thoughts:

1. Have you considered AZ or New Mexico? I know that misses your "proximity to the beach" requirement, but PHX drops right into many southern California airports cheaply. And many people drive to San Diego beaches.

2. Maybe less pay isn't all that bad. I am paid well, but I live in a very high income tax state. Property costs here are outrageous. Most people on SDN scream about reasons not to live in my area. However, even after state income tax, I make plenty of money. I ride my bike to the beach or work every day. It's never snowing and never humid. I don't drive a Porsche, have a boat, or live in a 10K square foot house....but I live in a desirable place, travel every other month, and will be able to retire before 55. It's all about what is most important to you. Have you considered downsizing in the midwest for the next three years while you save tremendous amounts of money before moving to the west coast and living in a "small" (eye roll) three-bedroom house within an hour of the coast and major airports? ...making 325K per year and enjoying coffee outside every morning before walking your kids to school? ...oh yeah, the "politics" suck and there are immigrants nearby in the fields/factories (sarcasm but the truth) and hipsters a few cities over...but that's the price to pay for a daily life of ease and peace.

HH
 
Hey man, I'm 4 years out of residency at a job similar to what you're looking for, minus the daytrip to the ocean (6hrs to Atlantic, 6hrs to gulf doesn't qualify as a daytrip).

If you need the ocean at $270/hr you're looking at lower MS/AL for the Gulf, Slightly inland NC/SC/GA for the Atlantic. Unicorn jobs near Charleston and Savannah although by now most are CMG at $200/hr. Possible Atlantic FL however the democratic group I interviewed with in 2015 that met the high income requirement has since been sold to Team Health.

Personally I would avoid Florida, having spent a lot of time there visiting family.

Wilmington, NC has a unicorn democratic group that offered me a job in 2015, $4-500k/yr partner but 2yrs sweat equity (~125$/hr) and due to the flat coastal landscape I opted to stay inland at home.

TN has lakes, mountains, rivers, valleys, good jobs and essentially every outdoor activity other than surfing and snowboarding. Near-coastal MS would be easy to hit $270/hr but you're in a flat low-land area and the coast is.. the Gulf.

Personally I am fine living by the lake and having the Appalachians/Cumberland plateau close-by for other outdoor opportunities. Endless amount of camping/fishing/hunting/motorcycling/hiking/biking/watersports and there's a good chance on a random Tuesday off you'll experience it all in solitude.
 
Hamhock said:
A few thoughts:

1. Have you considered AZ or New Mexico? I know that misses your "proximity to the beach" requirement, but PHX drops right into many southern California airports cheaply. And many people drive to San Diego beaches.
Click to expand...

Agree that pay in NM is pretty sick right now. Think I saw a perm job in Taos a few mo ago for like $230/h (forget details), and only like 3% income tax. Down in the hotter flatter lower small-town parts of NM should pay more.

But if you're from a snowy place like I am, the desert heat might be just as much of a shock to you as the SE humidity. Very few people around here (west TX) choose to walk outside after 10AM or so May-Sep. Need to factor that into your daily routine if you like walkable. Lived in DFW too and yeah it's hot and humid, but at least there are trees for shade. And I'd gladly pick either again in exchange for those depressing NE winters.

AZ is even hotter and pay in PHX might be a bit less (saw one recent offer at a community place for $200/h).

Hamhock said:
2. Maybe less pay isn't all that bad. I am paid well, but I live in a very high income tax state. Property costs here are outrageous. Most people on SDN scream about reasons not to live in my area. However, even after state income tax, I make plenty of money. I ride my bike to the beach or work every day. It's never snowing and never humid. I don't drive a Porsche, have a boat, or live in a 10K square foot house....but I live in a desirable place, travel every other month, and will be able to retire before 55. It's all about what is most important to you. Have you considered downsizing in the midwest for the next three years while you save tremendous amounts of money before moving to the west coast and living in a "small" (eye roll) three-bedroom house within an hour of the coast and major airports? ...making 325K per year and enjoying coffee outside every morning before walking your kids to school? ...oh yeah, the "politics" suck and there are immigrants nearby in the fields/factories (sarcasm but the truth) and hipsters a few cities over...but that's the price to pay for a daily life of ease and peace.
Click to expand...

Yup, this + no more than 1-2 shifts/wk is my medium-term goal.
 
Thank you all for the replies. This was not a decision we made overnight and have thought about it for months. I still will take the heat and humidity over waking up early to shovel snow and barely getting the car to start in the morning.

I know I work in one of the best paying areas and our pay is great. The job has plenty of issues and has become more and more frustrating to the point I am not happy working there even for the pay. I know I will take a pay cut Im just trying to minimize it as much as I can.

Traveling just doesn't do it for me anymore. I want to be able to get up every morning and not worry about 12 new inches of snow and being completely cooped up for like 6 months of the year. I am just having a hard time finding the non-CMG jobs in the area probably because they don't need to advertise.

Thanks
 
job Market for EM docs in the south is tightening up fast. And, most sites are cmg run as has been alluded to above. The available jobs in the city where I work (big metro area) are ones that no ABEM/ABOEM doc wants, so they are predominantly filled with FM/IM folks. But you can expect $220-$250/hr. That’s market rate.
 
flash14 said:
Thank you all for the replies. This was not a decision we made overnight and have thought about it for months. I still will take the heat and humidity over waking up early to shovel snow and barely getting the car to start in the morning.

I know I work in one of the best paying areas and our pay is great. The job has plenty of issues and has become more and more frustrating to the point I am not happy working there even for the pay. I know I will take a pay cut Im just trying to minimize it as much as I can.

Traveling just doesn't do it for me anymore. I want to be able to get up every morning and not worry about 12 new inches of snow and being completely cooped up for like 6 months of the year. I am just having a hard time finding the non-CMG jobs in the area probably because they don't need to advertise.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I think you can get ~225 base +incentive/bonus somewhere on the west coast of FL (and way less Noo yaw'kuh snow birds than east coast? @RustedFox) Maybe more if you find a great RVU situation. I understand most of the unicorn groups are full, though. And you should avoid USACS ($140/hr?). So you'll most likely end up with TeamHealth or Envision.

If you're looking for groups that don't advertise, I would recommend using the EMDocs facebook group. If you want to stay anonymous, use the search function for the area you're looking for. "Richmond Jobs" "Norfolk Jobs" "Tampa Jobs" etc. Most likely someone has already asked/gotten info and you can PM them directly.
 
Florida is underpaid for the crap you deal with and the dysfunctional health system. California or Arizona have better weather and pay comparably, but COL and taxes are higher.
 
e30ftw said:
Hey man, I'm 4 years out of residency at a job similar to what you're looking for, minus the daytrip to the ocean (6hrs to Atlantic, 6hrs to gulf doesn't qualify as a daytrip).

If you need the ocean at $270/hr you're looking at lower MS/AL for the Gulf, Slightly inland NC/SC/GA for the Atlantic. Unicorn jobs near Charleston and Savannah although by now most are CMG at $200/hr. Possible Atlantic FL however the democratic group I interviewed with in 2015 that met the high income requirement has since been sold to Team Health.

TN has lakes, mountains, rivers, valleys, good jobs and essentially every outdoor activity other than surfing and snowboarding. Near-coastal MS would be easy to hit $270/hr but you're in a flat low-land area and the coast is.. the Gulf.

Personally I am fine living by the lake and having the Appalachians/Cumberland plateau close-by for other outdoor opportunities. Endless amount of camping/fishing/hunting/motorcycling/hiking/biking/watersports and there's a good chance on a random Tuesday off you'll experience it all in solitude.
Click to expand...

Agree with Gulf Coast Alabama/Mississippi. Pay range is going to be similar or more than what you’re making now with low property tax and beach proximity. I’m in an SDG on the Gulf in Alabama and I’m 5 mins from water and 45 mins from pretty beaches with a low COL.
 
Hercules said:
Agree with Gulf Coast Alabama/Mississippi. Pay range is going to be similar or more than what you’re making now with low property tax and beach proximity. I’m in an SDG on the Gulf in Alabama and I’m 5 mins from water and 45 mins from pretty beaches with a low COL.
Click to expand...

Just make sure you are OK with Gulf weather and beaches. IME, there's a reason the "pretty" beaches have a lower COL than Nantucket or the coast.
 
As a lifelong resident of the SE, the weather isn't really all that welcoming compared to other parts of the country. I grew up in NC and currently live in GA. Winters here aren't brutally cold, but they can be pretty miserable. Dark, rainy and 40 degrees isn't 12 inches of snow, but it is pretty depressing all the same. Summers are damn hot. We pretty much pray for a nice spring and fall for more pleasant weather. I would definitely look for a more coastal community. You really have to go to at least Tampa before you can expect nicer winter weather.

I lived in NY for 2 years and the tradeoff for the crappy winter is that May through October, you actually get some pretty nice temps with low humidity. That's 6 months out of the year. I WISH I could say that we get 6 months of nice temps here.
 
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mark v said:
As a lifelong resident of the SE, the weather isn't really all that welcoming compared to other parts of the country. I grew up in NC and currently live in GA. Winters here aren't brutally cold, but they can be pretty miserable. Dark, rainy and 40 degrees isn't 12 inches of snow, but it is pretty depressing all the same. Summers are damn hot. We pretty much pray for a nice spring and fall for more pleasant weather. I would definitely look for a more coastal community. You really have to go to at least Tampa before you can expect nicer winter weather.

I lived in NY for 2 years and the tradeoff for the crappy winter is that May through October, you actually get some pretty nice temps with low humidity. That's 6 months out of the year. I WISH I could say that we get 6 months of nice temps here.
Click to expand...


Its funny I Moved from the Northeast to the Southeast and love the weather. I guess to each their own
 
If you’re looking for good weather on the east coast I’d look at southeastern Florida on the coast. As long as you’re within a couple miles of the beach the Gulf Stream keeps things mild during the winter and not as hot and muggy during the summer. It’s not perfect but pretty damn close especially when It’s in the 70s and sunny while New England gets hit with 2 feet of snow during the next bomb cyclone.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
Stop coming to Texas. We need to have jobs for our residents here, as well as those of us where the shop closes.

@EctopicFetus did you move to NashVegas?
Click to expand...

Indeed. Lifelong Texan (except residency) and the market was cutthroat when I interviewed. I hear residents from TX programs are having to go out of state. I was lucky to get a job in TX.
 
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