Quick question: I want/plan to be an OB/GYN specializing in perinatology but I've realized after shadowing I am also interested in surgery (I was shadowing an orthopedic surgeon but) specifically pediatric surgery. Is it possible? How much training (after medical school) am I looking at? When I am training, would I train for both at the same time or separately?
Specializing in two specialties (Surgery and Medicine).. possible?
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My 3-year-old daughter is struggling with a similar dilemma. She wants to be a princess when she grows up, but also a doctor, and possibly an animal rescue worker. I told her she can be all three, so I'll tell you the same thing.....if you want to be a surgeon/internist/gynecologist specializing in perinatal surgery, then you can do it, sweetie.
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What SLUser is saying is this: No. While there are some combined residencies (Med-Peds, EM-IM) these are specific programs you have to match into. None of the combined programs include a surgical specialty. Peds Surg, specifically, is THE MOST competitive fellowship following a General Surgery residency. To do that, you're looking at 7 years of residency (5 clinical years and 2 years of research, all but mandatory to apply to peds surg) and then a 3-year fellowship. An OB/Gyn residency is 4 years, with the neonatology fellowship to follow. You can't do them simultaneously and you'd be in your 40s before you finished training if you tried to do them consecutively (which I doubt you'd be able to do because of the way funding for residency spots works).
That being said, it is more than ok to have multiple interests in medicine at your level. Most pre-meds and med students start out with interest in specific field(s) and then narrow down to one (or change interests completely after exposure to lesser-known fields) during their time in medical school. Explore your options, but know that in the end you have to pick just one.
I think it's fair to have multiple interests. You are listed as pre-medical so I am going to presume so. Your interest might change in medical school. It's a fairly appealing to think when you are young(er) that you can take on everything and "be da man" that people go to for everything. But really medicine is about team work so it's best if you find your niche and stick to it. Of course you probably won't know what it is until you have rotated through different specialties in medical school. It's hard to wear too many hats especially in fields that are so very different.
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Just a clarification: neonatology is a subspecialty of pediatrics not ObGyn.
OB/GYN subspecialties include maternal fetal medicine, minimally invasive gynecologic surgery, gyn oncology and reproductive medicine.
But the others are right: you simply can't do multiple things and do all of them well. As you move through your training you'll find whether you wish to have a surgical or medical career
OB/GYN subspecialties include maternal fetal medicine, minimally invasive gynecologic surgery, gyn oncology and reproductive medicine.
But the others are right: you simply can't do multiple things and do all of them well. As you move through your training you'll find whether you wish to have a surgical or medical career
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True that. Thanks for catching it. That's what I get for posting before coffee.
Perhaps, but the OP is interested in perinatology, aka MFM.
One must only watch but a single episode of Grey's Anatomy to learn that all prenatal/perinatal surgeons have an OBGYN background, and usually a neurosurgeon ex-husband....usually...
I thought she was an expert in genetics ....... 🙁 I have failed to watch the single episode properly. I question whether the ex was a neurosurgeon at all. I thought neurosurgeons are too easy to cheat on their wives.
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No, no, no...she was dual-board-certified in OB/GYN and neonatology, with a neurosurgeon ex-husband (because SHE cheated on HIM with a dual-certified plastics/ENT surgeon) who was too busy to fix their marriage, so he settled for a relationship with a surgical intern who he could summon to the call room as fit his schedule.
JEEZ people, I thought you were doctors. You should have this very important resource memorized! 🙄
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I didn't catch it until I'd had my pre-op Diet Coke.
Sadly, I must confess I have never seen a single episode of Grey's Anatomy, hence my lack of up-to-date information on these new superspecialties.
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Not to nitpick, but you missed 2 fellowships... Urogyn and family planning (assuming you meant reproductive endocrinology as reproductive medicine... Although only mfm, rei, onc, and Urogyn are acgme accredited, mis and family planning running their own show for now)...
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OB residency- 4 years
MFM (Perinatology fellowship)- 3 years
If you are interested in fetal theraputic interventions, some of the higher end stuff- Plan on an additional 1 year of training at a super specialized center.
As an MFM you can operate some: C sections for the routine or specialized situations (EXIT procedures), cerclages, theraputic abortions at later gestations, fetal interventions are mainly umbilical cord sampling/transfusions, and laser ablation of vessels in twin twin transfusion.
The stuff like spina bifida surgery is from what I understand experimental and is done in a few centers: CHOP etc.
The typical MFM/perinatologist isn't operating a ton. It's mainly outpatient and inpatient management.
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Feel free to nitpick but my list wasn't meant to be exhaustive (see the word "includes" in my response above which means "these are some examples" rather than "these are all fellowships").
I think I did a pretty good job since I was dictating my response while driving down the freeway at 0700. 😛
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What particular two residencies do you want to do? To answer the thread title, yes there are people who have completed both internal medicine and surgery (I would love to do so, if I lived to 150 and could be excellent at both and find a way in which having mastery of both specialties would be useful to the patient), but they are typically internists who then decided to practice surgery and currently stick to surgery. They're guys like this guy:
http://www.surgery.medsch.ucla.edu/doctors/doctors_Ardehali.shtml
Institution Level (Intern,
Resident, Fellow) Department Year
University of California, Los Angeles Chief Resident Cardiothoracic Surgery 1995-97
University of California, Los Angeles Chief Resident Surgery 1994-95
University of California, Los Angeles Resident Surgery 1991-94
University of California, Los Angeles Intern Surgery 1990-91
University of California, San Francisco Resident Department of Medicine 1987-89
University of California, San Francisco Intern Department of Medicine 1986-87
There are also people in other fields who feel that having IM in addition to their main specialty is helpful. They're anesthesiologists, neurologists, dermatologists, and such who complete IM residencies as well. Derm has a combined IM/derm residency. E.g. the head of anesthesia at Harvard:
http://www.massgeneral.org/doctors/doctor.aspx?id=17681
Medical EducationMD, University of California San Francisco School of MedicineResidency, Mount Zion Hospital & Medical CenterResidency, University of California San FranciscoFellowship, University of California San Francisco
Board CertificationsAnesthesiology, American Board of AnesthesiologyInternal Medicine, American Board of Internal MedicinePulmonary Disease, American Board of Internal Medicine
By and large, you'll not be doing this and it just isn't practical.
To answer you secondary questions, pediatric surgery involves a 7 year general surgery residency (of which 2 years are research) followed by an extremely competitive 2 year pediatric fellowship. I doubt that IM would be of ANY use in that career track. A pediatrics residency might have some benefit, but why would you want to go from 9 to 12 years of training for very marginal benefit?
Finally, most mainstream in utero fetal procedures are done by ob/gyn doctors. There are some more complex procedures being done by pediatric general surgeons or perhaps pediatric neurosurgeons, but they are few and far between and would likely require intense collaboration with MFM and neonatology. For instance Dr. Adzick at CHOP, who does spina bifida surgery on fetuses:
http://www.chop.edu/doctors/adzick-n-scott.html
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You're not missing anything.
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The chairman of neurosurgery at WashU is board certified in internal medicine.He did an IM residency before neurosurg and has kept up his BC.
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The sad thing is, he's done as many years of training as I have. We're both in the same fields now.
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If I had so little in my life in terms of companionship, children, family time, hobbies, etc. that I had the time to do neurosurgery after medicine and then still studied medicine journals and practiced enough to keep up my board certification and competency while practicing as a neurosurgeon just to be certified in both, I would feel very very sad for myself. There is just so much more to do in life with the time that we have. To each his own.
Don't be so hard on yourself. there's still time to abandon your family and friends, become an absolute as*hole, learn to belittle everyone around you, stop sleeping, publish 100 articles a year etc. Let the dream live on!
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Is this just for IM? I know an older pulm/cc doctor that was complaining about his newest recertification exam being on a computer vs on paper.
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All specialties have a limit on the certification however many were grandfathered in and don't have to take the exam again. I remember reading something once that said only 30% of medicine physicians take the recertification exam. I wonder if that's still true since most of the hospitals I go to require certification to be on staff.
If it's the issue with the exam being on computer that's confusing you, remember computerized administration of these standardized test is relatively recent. For example, I never took the ABSITE on computer; it was all paper and pencil.
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Yeah I understand the recent switch to the computer, I was just curious if perhaps his IM certification is "permanent" and he just needed to be recertified in his sub specialty, or if other things were being grandfathered as well and he missed the boat.
Thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the clarification.
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You mean last episode? I dunno, I don't watch things that aren't on Netflix
I don't watch bad shows.
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I do (obvi)...they're almost more entertaining than the good ones, and waaayy easier to find!
If I stuck to the 'good' ones I'd run out!
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The show with the most accurate portrayal of residency is Scrubs.
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Yes, but the show with the portrayal of the double BC neonatal surgeon/OB/GYN is more relevant to the OP! Cuz, y'know, if it's on Grey's Anatomy it must be possible!
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Is that show even still on the air?!
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Yeah. I check Netflix every once in a while for opportunities to turn my brain off, and they're still churning out a season every year.
Awesome so I can be a neurosurgeon AND have a life?
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and fancy hair.
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And an emo girlfriend!
And a cheating wife. But also a new wife.
