Specialty as DO?

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Of course it is, it will be just be harder to get into as a DO than an MD.

Stop it with these disrespectful questions. The real questions that would be valuable for you to know is what percentage of DO students get placed into a specialty that you are looking at the DO school that you are looking at. And you can find this information by searching for a Match list for that school.
 
You mean it might be harder to get an allopathic residency in NSG as a DO, right?

opportunities.osteopathic.org

The above site will show you how many DO residencies there are in any specialty.
 
I didn't mean to disrespect! People get upset too easy on here.

Isn't it possible to do a MD residency as a DO, but a MD can't do a DO residency?

So if your grades are good and take the USMLE instead of the COMPLEX, a DO would have more of a chance donig neurosurgery.
 
Ben25 said:
I didn't mean to disrespect! People get upset too easy on here.

Isn't it possible to do a MD residency as a DO, but a MD can't do a DO residency?
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That is possible.
 
Ben25 said:
I didn't mean to disrespect! People get upset too easy on here.

Isn't it possible to do a MD residency as a DO, but a MD can't do a DO residency?

So if your grades are good and take the USMLE instead of the COMPLEX, a DO would have more of a chance donig neurosurgery.
Click to expand...

Ha. Sorry, i guess i did get angry to easily.

And to the bottom two lines...I guess that would make sense, but you have to consider that a residency director is going to take an MD over a DO with equal stats. So, once this is factored in, an MD has more of a chance to do something like neurosurgery.
 
Oh, and also, there aren't that many DO residencies for neurosurgery.

So, to recap:

A DO graduate will have the opportunity to do DO and MD neurosurgery residences. Whereas an MD will only have the opportunity to do MD neurosurgery residences. But, there's hardly any DO neurosurgery residences...so most likely a DO will be competing against MD's for an MD neurosurgery residency...and his chances in this battle are not good unless his stats are a good amount higher than the MD's he is competing against.
 
Ben25 said:
I didn't mean to disrespect! People get upset too easy on here.

Isn't it possible to do a MD residency as a DO, but a MD can't do a DO residency?

So if your grades are good and take the USMLE instead of the COMPLEX, a DO would have more of a chance donig neurosurgery.
Click to expand...


For goodness sake, it is COMLEX, not COMPLEX with a "P" 🙄
 
Is the COMPLEX a special test for Western/COMP students that I haven't heard about?

/tongue in cheek.
 
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DrDre2001 said:
Ha. Sorry, i guess i did get angry to easily.

And to the bottom two lines...I guess that would make sense, but you have to consider that a residency director is going to take an MD over a DO with equal stats. So, once this is factored in, an MD has more of a chance to do something like neurosurgery.
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I don't think this is necessarily true. For one thing two different applicants are not going to have all the same stats, programs look at much more than just your step score, GPA, and initials. Sure, some programs may just still have some bias against DO, but I certainly wouldn't apply that label to all programs in competitive residencies.
 
COMLEX! I got it!

Thanks for the imput/advice!
 
I suspect that the DO statistics are skewed since many go into primary care and the bottom 1/2 of the DO student body might not be comparable to the bottom 1/2 of the MD student body as of yet. The question you should be asking is... what percentage of DO's with a USMLE/COMLEX score of X that have _______ and _______ experience get into ________ specialty compared to MDs (no COMLEX obviously). I guarantee you that if you were going to be a good MD, you'd be just as good of a DO if not better.
 
I'm applying to both MD and DO, but I was just interested to see if it was possible. The CNS/PNS fascinates me and as of now is the only field I could see myself in. I have 600 hours of assisting in the operating room, and really like surgery. So this would combine both the OR and the nervous system and consist of everything I like.
 
Ben25 said:
I'm applying to both MD and DO, but I was just interested to see if it was possible. The CNS/PNS fascinates me and as of now is the only field I could see myself in. I have 600 hours of assisting in the operating room, and really like surgery. So this would combine both the OR and the nervous system and consist of everything I like.
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Hey Ben, yes ... it is very possible for a DO to become a neurosurgeon. There are osteopathic residencies (http://opportunities.osteopathic.org) and you can always take the USMLE and apply ACGME. However, I am unsure how hard it is to match ACGME as a DO, I'd assume it's quittee competitive.

Also, keep in mind that something like 70% of people change their mind about specialty during med school. Just apply broadly, go where you feel best/get in and then worry about specialty.
 
Does anyone understand what the AOA verified and what the program reported means?
 
Ben25 said:
Is it possible to be a neurosurgeon as a DO?
Click to expand...

Hey don't worry a DO can become a neurosurgeon, there actually is one in Camden, NJ. I will be contacting him soon to shadow him, I will ask him various questions about any extra steps taken. The specialty is just competitive that's all.
 
JaggerPlate said:
.... However, I am unsure how hard it is to match ACGME as a DO, I'd assume it's quittee competitive.....
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Matching neurosurgery is quite competitive regardless of whether you choose an MD or DO school. There ARE osteopathic grads in ACGME neurosurgery residencies. They are usually the number one student in their class and have 99th percentile USMLEs. BUT, keep in mind that the MDs that get into those programs are ALSO usually the top grads in their class and in the 99th percentile in USMLE scores. It is extremely hard for ANYONE to get into a neurogsurgery program.

You should keep in mind, though, that because of the extreme competitivness there really aren't all that many people applying for neurosurgery residencies. Somewhere along the line, most med students realize that they just don't have the qualifications and realize how fruitless it would be to even think about applying.
 
scpod - are those squirrels... you know? Or is it OMM?
 
AAAllright, giggity giggity! I'm sure the squirrels are trained. They do that, right?
 
I heard ppl say that applying for residency is just like applying for med school all over again. So, does it mean that as long as you got the $$$$ you can apply as many as you want?
 
Hi Ben,
First good luck with your education. You would probably be one of the best neurosurgeons out there as a DO. IMO, from what I've encountered on the patient and admin side of medicine, DO's have a far better overall view of the patient care and provide much better care. Now I don't want to get into a MD vs DO argument here but there is clearly a difference in education with DOs receiving more well rounded, realistic education. This in turn allows DO clinicians to better look at the overall picture which is essential in neurophysiology medicine.
 
Ribless said:
Hi Ben,
First good luck with your education. You would probably be one of the best neurosurgeons out there as a DO. IMO, from what I've encountered on the patient and admin side of medicine, DO's have a far better overall view of the patient care and provide much better care. Now I don't want to get into a MD vs DO argument here but there is clearly a difference in education with DOs receiving more well rounded, realistic education. This in turn allows DO clinicians to better look at the overall picture which is essential in neurophysiology medicine.
Click to expand...

Oh give me break. This is just propaganda. MD's can be just as good at getting an overall view of patient care.

To address the OP, it's probably much easier to get an AOA residency in neurosurgery than an ACGME spot, but like others have said the AOA neurosurgery spots are very few.
 
Ribless said:
Hi Ben,
First good luck with your education. You would probably be one of the best neurosurgeons out there as a DO. IMO, from what I've encountered on the patient and admin side of medicine, DO's have a far better overall view of the patient care and provide much better care. Now I don't want to get into a MD vs DO argument here but there is clearly a difference in education with DOs receiving more well rounded, realistic education. This in turn allows DO clinicians to better look at the overall picture which is essential in neurophysiology medicine.
Click to expand...

******ed. My view is that I'd be the same kind of doctor regardless of where I went to medical school. If you think going MD vs DO is going to change your personality thats a bit naive. They may emphasize different things and try to teach you to look at things in a certain way but in the end if your a blunt person you're still going to be that way when you graduate.
 
Ribless said:
Hi Ben,
First good luck with your education. You would probably be one of the best neurosurgeons out there as a DO. IMO, from what I've encountered on the patient and admin side of medicine, DO's have a far better overall view of the patient care and provide much better care. Now I don't want to get into a MD vs DO argument here but there is clearly a difference in education with DOs receiving more well rounded, realistic education. This in turn allows DO clinicians to better look at the overall picture which is essential in neurophysiology medicine.
Click to expand...

Absolutely untrue.
 
Ben25 said:
So if your grades are good and take the USMLE instead of the COMPLEX, a DO would have more of a chance donig neurosurgery.
Click to expand...
It's not that simple...in highly competitive fields like neurosurgery, the MD vs DO issue makes more of a difference, because programs can afford to be that picky and still have their choice of top applicants.

To give you an idea, according to the NRMP there are 191 MD neurosurgery spots available each year. Between 2005-2009, a grand total of 2 DOs have managed to match. That said, there are 11 osteopathic neurosurgery programs, which only take DO grads.
 
somethingsmart said:
It's not that simple...in highly competitive fields like neurosurgery, the MD vs DO issue makes more of a difference, because programs can afford to be that picky and still have their choice of top applicants.

To give you an idea, according to the NRMP there are 191 MD neurosurgery spots available each year. Between 2005-2009, a grand total of 2 DOs have managed to match. That said, there are 11 osteopathic neurosurgery programs, which only take DO grads.
Click to expand...


Do you know how many DO's match to the DO Neurosurgery positions each year? Or asked another way, how many open DO NS spots there are?
 
Substance P said:
Do you know how many DO's match to the DO Neurosurgery positions each year? Or asked another way, how many open DO NS spots there are?
Click to expand...
Don't know off the top of my head, but looking at the link on AOA residencies posted above, it looks like there are about 1-2 openings per year at each program, so I'd estimate around 20 total. Even if you add those into the MD spots, DO's account for less than 10% of this year's entering class of neurosurgery interns.
 
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somethingsmart said:
Don't know off the top of my head, but looking at the link on AOA residencies posted above, it looks like there are about 1-2 openings per year at each program, so I'd estimate around 20 total. Even if you add those into the MD spots, DO's account for less than 1% of this year's entering class of neurosurgery interns.
Click to expand...


The numbers you have given would put it at about 10%, not 1%. But your point is well taken. It is much more difficult to get into those highly competitive specialties as a DO on the surface. The only counter point I can make to that is that there are significantly fewer DO schools than MD schools, meaning significantly fewer DO students than MD students, not to mention ~50% of DO students choose to go into primary care. So, while on the surface it would appear that your chances aren't very good when viewing 22 spots through the AOA, versus the 191 spots for MD students, your odds might actually be the same if not better applying as a DO student simply based on the volume of applicants in your pool. It is entirely possible that 22 people don't even apply each year for the DO NS spots.

I'm sure there are some official applicant numbers out there somewhere, which would be pretty beneficial, but I'm too lazy to go digging around for them right now.
 
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