Spine procedures workshop in march

[myrandom2003]

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Members don't see this ad.

Just wondering if anyone has done this workshop in the past? Is it worth it?
I am strongly considering it, but the $1250 price tag is making me balk... anyone going want to split the hotel cost?

 

[ampaphb]

Just wondering if anyone has done this workshop in the past? Is it worth it?
I am strongly considering it, but the $1250 price tag is making me balk... anyone going want to split the hotel cost?

The cost is actually low by comparison to other courses offered (ISIS courses are 1800-2100).

I am not thrilled that they don't list the instructors, however - I would not assume everyone teaching such courses are competent, so before signing up, I would make certain who was teaching the course

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

These workshops give you a little hands-on experience sticking needles into dead people, usually along a tract already made by 10 people before you. Your "patient" is not squirming or anxious. The point of them is to give you an idea of how these procedures should be done, and a little about when.

They show the techniques in a powerpoint presentation, then you go to the cadaver lab to practice in groups. They spend very little time telling you what to do when the needle ends up in a really bad place, or how to recognize it when that happens.

At best, they give you an idea of how much more dificult these things are than you thought, and may help you to get someone to proctor you back home until you've done the 50 cases of each injection that many hospitals will require before giving you priviledges in interventional pain management.

At worst they give you a very false sense of proficiency - "I just stuck a needle into the epidural space of 3 different cadavers a atotal of 6 times. I can do it on live people now!"

If you go, you will likely hear someone tell you several times, "This is how you do this procedure, but you should not do it on your patients until someone has proctored you."

Do a fellowship - it'll save you endless troubles in the long run. Do just a weekend course like this and when a case goes sour, who'll be there to defend you?

I honestly feel that these courses do the public a great disservice. But they make the academy money, so they'll keep offering them.

 

[myrandom2003]

The only reason I am interested in this is because my current residency program offers very poor exposure to these procedures. I also plan on spending a month with the pain fellows at our hospital (anesthesia run) and apply to a fellowship, but i just wanted to try it in a closed, environment where i couldn't kill/disable anyone.

But I agree, this doesn't mean that I will not need a fellowship or teach me to handle a sticky situation.

 

[Disciple]

Just wondering if anyone has done this workshop in the past? Is it worth it?
I am strongly considering it, but the $1250 price tag is making me balk... anyone going want to split the hotel cost?

I went to these as a resident. It was paid for by the department, so definitely worth the money.

One of my attendings at the time was instructing, so it made for a great primer to the Spine/MSK rotations.

 

[myrandom2003]

just wondering if anyone is going to this? Just wondering if anyone wants to meet up during this?

 

[drusso]

The only reason I am interested in this is because my current residency program offers very poor exposure to these procedures. I also plan on spending a month with the pain fellows at our hospital (anesthesia run) and apply to a fellowship, but i just wanted to try it in a closed, environment where i couldn't kill/disable anyone.

But I agree, this doesn't mean that I will not need a fellowship or teach me to handle a sticky situation.

I think its very good for resident level education and as an opportunity for experienced practitioners to discuss technique, indications, etc. As stand-alone venues for actually acquiring new skills...all of these kinds of courses (ISIS, industry, ASIPP, etc) make me a little nervous. I go to them but I'm very concerned that it reinforces the perception that people can "pick up" these skills on the side in lieu of standardized post-graduate training (ie either residency or fellowship).

I guess the real question is why isn't your PM&R residency program doing a better job teaching you interventional skills? That is certainly part of what physiatrists do. You wouldn't expect to do an internal medicine residency and be told that since nephrolology is really weak at our program we're going to send you to some courses instead...oh, and here's a couple of brochures about how a dialysis machine works. In order to be competitive for much of what physiatrists are actually asked to do in community practice, graduates often require a fair bit of remedial education after finishing residency. It's PM&R's dirty little secret.

 

[myrandom2003]

well my program director is openly anti-interventional procedures... He is all about inpatient rehab and maybe emgs... gross misrepresentation during the interviews

 

[Disciple]

I guess the real question is why isn't your PM&R residency program doing a better job teaching you interventional skills?

Probably too difficult to set up is my guess. If the department doesn't have a spine center, then what? Go begging to the anesthesia pain clinic? They're busy providing procedures to their fellows.

The other option is finding private practice rotations, but we all know it's difficult to get as much hands on experience out of those.

Unless there's some kind of mandate, most programs aren't going to go the extra mile to provide the training.

If there were new requirements, I have no doubt it would get done at virtually all programs. Just like our EMG requirement.

Some programs embrace electrodiagnostics (e.g. Ohio State and anyone with well known EMG faculty), some clearly don't, but all are required to provide the requisite 200, by any means necessary,

or go on probation.

We now have a Musculoskeletal Council and a Pain Council in the AAPMR.

It's too bad there is no such required representation in the ABPMR.


Maybe there should be.