Stanford vs. BU SMED (7 yr BA/MD)

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Hi everyone,

I've narrowed down my college list to Stanford and BU SMED and was wondering if I could get some input. I'm having such a hard time deciding because I can honestly see myself at either school. Here are some factors i'm weighing:

Stanford
excellence across all academic disciplines
ive really liked all the students i have met so far and they seem so happy
beautiful campus
the overall atmosphere seems awesome and i love the prospect of being surrounded by so many brilliant people
and theres always the prestige factor

BU SMED
guaranteed spot in the med school (with 3.2 and min 30 MCAT)
encouraged to study abroad
a little less stressful (i talked to a girl who had time to learn a language for fun on her own and train for a marathon)
can minor in whatever pretty much
i love the city and all its opportunities

i don't have the strongest work ethic and im definitely making an effort to change that. but i keep thinking what if i don't end up shaping up? i don't want to screw over my gpa at stanford and regret not taking that guaranteed seat at bu. i'm also pretty sure about medicine but some people that i've talked to have advised that i shouldn't lock myself into a program and commit to medicine before actually taking the time to explore other interests and passions, which does make a lot of sense. but the currents smed students i've talked to have also said that they're able to explore some of their own interests through their minor.

also, the costs will end up being about the same. I feel guilty about the high price tags, but i'm lucky to have parents who reassure me that they're willing to pay as long as I'm happy wherever I end up. but the problem is, I think i will be happy at either!

anyway, thank you for taking the time to read this. any advice is much appreciated!

 

[manu101]

As long as the cost of BU's program is not an issue, I would take a guarantee. Both the undergrad and medical school for the program are pretty strong. If for some reason you decide that medicine is not for you, you can simply leave the program (BU is a pretty decent undergrad as well).

It all comes down to whether you care much about the prestige of your undergrad over a relatively assured acceptance into medical school. Good luck with your decision from a fellow high school senior choosing between schools 🙂

 

[merlinnus66]

They're both amazing! Its a tough choice but I believe that the BA/MD program is best if you want to go into medical. If you go to stanford you will still have a really good chance of getting into med school but not the almost guaranteed spot at BU. I'm currently a high school junior hoping to get into the program myself. If its not too much trouble could you post your stats?

 

[NickNaylor]

If you can reshape your work ethic, I'd go the regular route. Having the option to choose schools is, in my opinion, something you should give away for a sense of "security."

 

[HAV000]

I would probably have taken the security and relatively easier path as well. What I'm wondering though is whether having to prove oneself to get into med school is better for that person (and maybe one's patients down the road) than having an early guarantee as long as one adequately meets minimum requirements.

 

[bamdstudent]

Go with BU smed!

 

[HH Holmes]

This all depends what kind of person you are. I was in the same situation as you (with not as high caliber schools 😛 ), when I was applying. I applied to top 30 schools like Emory, Vanderbilt, Rice etc... As soon as I got into a y year program, I signed the enrollment form, sent my deposit and withdrew my applications -- I didn't even know where else I got in (besides the few schools I applied to early action).

You know yourself better than any poster on a forum. If you think security and peace of mind at a great program is better over a really good school, then your choice should be easy.

Congrats on both.

 

[getdown]

I'm going to disagree with NickNaylor. The stress of applying to schools and interviewing and the additional stress during college because you want to do well to get into med school is not worth the minor inconvenience of having options. It may not seem so for someone who had a 40 on his MCAT but a majority of people are in limbo and stress out. The peace of mind of not having to worry about all that rubbish in itself is worth it.

 

[Gigantron]

I'm going to disagree with NickNaylor. The stress of applying to schools and interviewing and the additional stress during college because you want to do well to get into med school is not worth the minor inconvenience of having options. It may not seem so for someone who had a 40 on his MCAT but a majority of people are in limbo and stress out. The peace of mind of not having to worry about all that rubbish in itself is worth it.

👍

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm going to disagree with NickNaylor. The stress of applying to schools and interviewing and the additional stress during college because you want to do well to get into med school is not worth the minor inconvenience of having options. It may not seem so for someone who had a 40 on his MCAT but a majority of people are in limbo and stress out. The peace of mind of not having to worry about all that rubbish in itself is worth it.

But its more than just having options. What if the school you go to gives out virtually no scholarships and no decent financial aid? Financially, you're stuck with whatever they decide to give you.

What if you decide the school isn't a good fit for you? You're going to spend a few years not enjoying your experience.

IMO the only advantages of doing a combined program are 1) saving money on application costs and 2) the "security" of knowing you got in somewhere. #2 is negligible for me because the fact is that if you can get into a combined program, you can likely get into fantastic schools using the normal process assuming your work ethic remains the same. The other advantage people seem to spout off is that you can "relax" and "enjoy college." That is utter bull****. I know several friends that are in a combined program here (Baylor/Baylor College of Medicine), and they're the hardest working of my friends. Yes, they have a GPA requirement they have to maintain, but they work because their personality requires them to do nothing short of their best. If you can get into a program with absolutely no conditions on your undergrad performance other than you need to earn your degree, then that would be fantastic. I don't think there are any such programs though.

The fact is that you'll be fine whichever route you choose. You'll still be a physician in the end. Just understand that 1) you have no idea what to look for in a medical school as a high school student (hell, I didn't know until about halfway through the application cycle) and 2) you better be happy, or learn to be happy, with the school that you're going to based on the knowledge of #1.

And by the way, having a 40+ MCAT doesn't take the stress away from the process. It's extremely stressful, time-consuming, etc.. Every applicant experiences that.

Good luck.

 

[SouthParkMD]

But its more than just having options. What if the school you go to gives out virtually no scholarships and no decent financial aid? Financially, you're stuck with whatever they decide to give you.

What if you decide the school isn't a good fit for you? You're going to spend a few years not enjoying your experience.

IMO the only advantages of doing a combined program are 1) saving money on application costs and 2) the "security" of knowing you got in somewhere. #2 is negligible for me because the fact is that if you can get into a combined program, you can likely get into fantastic schools using the normal process assuming your work ethic remains the same. The other advantage people seem to spout off is that you can "relax" and "enjoy college." That is utter bull****. I know several friends that are in a combined program here (Baylor/Baylor College of Medicine), and they're the hardest working of my friends. Yes, they have a GPA requirement they have to maintain, but they work because their personality requires them to do nothing short of their best. If you can get into a program with absolutely no conditions on your undergrad performance other than you need to earn your degree, then that would be fantastic. I don't think there are any such programs though.

The fact is that you'll be fine whichever route you choose. You'll still be a physician in the end. Just understand that 1) you have no idea what to look for in a medical school as a high school student (hell, I didn't know until about halfway through the application cycle) and 2) you better be happy, or learn to be happy, with the school that you're going to based on the knowledge of #1.

And by the way, having a 40+ MCAT doesn't take the stress away from the process. It's extremely stressful, time-consuming, etc.. Every applicant experiences that.

Good luck.

Right hence going into a combined program would alleviate that stress….

OP choose the combined program. In high school I was fixed on going into research. It was only after I came to college that I realized I wanted to be a doctor. Had I known this in high school, I would have gone BS/MD.

Nick's experience is different from mine because the friends I know who are in those programs do well enough to keep their GPA's at a 3.5 or slightly above, and get at least a 30 on the MCAT. They spend their downtime partying, traveling, and doing other things that someone filling out AMCAS apps wouldn't have the time/money/luxury of doing.

 

[Gigantron]

Right hence going into a combined program would alleviate that stress….

OP choose the combined program. In high school I was fixed on going into research. It was only after I came to college that I realized I wanted to be a doctor. Had I known this in high school, I would have gone BS/MD.

Nick's experience is different from mine because the friends I know who are in those programs do well enough to keep their GPA's at a 3.5 or slightly above, and get at least a 30 on the MCAT. They spend their downtime partying, traveling, and doing other things that someone filling out AMCAS apps wouldn't have the time/money/luxury of doing.

You know, I always found it funny that the people who disagree with BS/MD's are people who were never in one to begin with.

 

[DoctwoB]

As a Cardinal alum, I would strongly recommend going with Stanford for several reasons.

1. Best football team in California, possibly on the West coast (pending Oregon rematch)
2. You may change your mind, and Stanford will take you a lot further in any other field then BU undergrad will.
3. Stanford is amazing. I didn't go to BU and can't speak for it, but I enjoyed the heck out of Stanford, even while "stressing about med school". Its beautiful, sunny, and the opportunities there are fantastic. Sometimes its not all about just getting into med school/job of choice. While I would say that O-chem or intro physics are the same everywhere, at the upper level I took 10 person seminars in medical entrepreneurship, tumor immunology, virology, etc. with huge people in the field that were stimulating and challenging, and I'm a better person for them.
4. Though you may have to put more work into the application process, I've yet to meet a Stanford student that wasn't a total slacker who didn't have a fantastic choice of Medical schools. N = about 15, so take it FWIW. I was definitely on the lower end of the spectrum and my choice included Pitt, Columbia, UChicago (and BU) [go Pitt!]. Plus many people got scholarships, which you would be giving up by committing to SMED.

All that being said, BU is an awesome med school (I liked it better than its ranking suggests). But unless theres a major financial incentive to go BU, I would definitely take Stanford. Plus you never know what life will have in store. You may meet a foxy lady that will require flexibility in where you go for med school. You might get sick of cold winters, or realize that the Red Socks and Patriots suck and only awful human beings root for them. Keeping the options open is always good.

Edit: You said you wanted to study abroad. I (and many other pre-meds) studied abroad and had an absolute blast. Top programs include Oxford, Florence, Australia, Madrid, Berlin, Santiago + any other program you can find. The only people who have trouble finding the time are some of the engineering majors.

 

[SouthParkMD]

You know, I always found it funny that the people who disagree with BS/MD's are people who were never in one to begin with.

Er….I wasn't disagreeing with it….😕

 

[Gigantron]

Er….I wasn't disagreeing with it….😕

lol but I was agreeing with you when you replied to Nick, who isn't in a BS/MD.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[NickNaylor]

You know, I always found it funny that the people who disagree with BS/MD's are people who were never in one to begin with.

I may not be in one, but I have several good friends that are in the combined program here as I mentioned earlier, and I've also been involved with some recruiting for the program and hanging out with prospective students that are interviewing. Just by the questions that they ask I can tell they clearly have no idea what they're doing. I'm still sticking to my guns and saying that you have no idea what you're committing yourself to as a HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. You have no idea what college is even like. How can you possibly know what you want in a med school?

 

[Farmacist2011]

I would pick BU for sure.

 

[Gigantron]

I may not be in one, but I have several good friends that are in the combined program here as I mentioned earlier, and I've also been involved with some recruiting for the program and hanging out with prospective students that are interviewing. Just by the questions that they ask I can tell they clearly have no idea what they're doing. I'm still sticking to my guns and saying that you have no idea what you're committing yourself to as a HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. You have no idea what college is even like. How can you possibly know what you want in a med school?

All of your post is anecdotal, and for you to assume that I have absolutely no idea what college is like is negligible. High School students can and do attend college, after all. Your statements are partially similar in nature to those of the OP in this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=815863


All banter/argument aside, why do you recruit for the type of program that you vehemently disagree with on SDN? I'm actually curious.

 

[NickNaylor]

All of your post is anecdotal, and for you to assume that I have absolutely no idea what college is like is negligible. High School students can and do attend college, after all. Your statements are partially similar in nature to those of the OP in this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=815863


All banter/argument aside, why do you recruit for the type of program that you vehemently disagree with on SDN? I'm actually curious.

Because you likely don't. I took college courses in high school as well. Guess what? That doesn't emulate the college experience, or if it does it only emulates general requirements/first year courses.

Also, when you can find a study that is based on non-anecdotal evidence proving that high school students clearly understand what to look for in medical schools, I'll retract my opinion. Until then, all we have to rely on is anecdotal evidence. And my anecdotal evidence tells me that high school students can't possibly make educated decisions about medical school. It's not because they're stupid - it's because they don't have the experience to.

My job is not to recruit them for the specific program; my job is to explain to them why my undergrad is a great place to get an education before moving along to med school. As a graduating senior going to medical school, I can speak relatively strongly to the pre-med resources and the science curriculum here. But don't worry, I make it a point to tell them that combined programs aren't all that and to not be disappointed at all if you don't get accepted.

I'm not vehemently opposed to guaranteed acceptance programs in general. Vanderbilt has a great guaranteed acceptance program for their second year undergrad students that I think is an awesome opportunity with a real, tangible purpose. I just think it's irresponsible to pigeon hole insecure high school students into attending X school when they don't know anything about the process or about what to look for in medical schools.

 

[Gigantron]

Because you likely don't. I took college courses in high school as well. Guess what? That doesn't emulate the college experience, or if it does it only emulates general requirements/first year courses.

I never thought you would lose the college experience in a BS/MD program. That's why there are 8 year programs. My program happens to be an 8 year program that offers the "traditional" college experience while having a guaranteed seat in medical school. If my intention was to go into pre-med anyway, I would more than likely have a similar college experience, but without that guaranteed acceptance. Granted, the college experience without the acceptance would be plagued with stressors that typical pre-meds face. IMHO, it's not worth it to forego a guaranteed acceptance for the sake of having a slightly different college experience.

Also, when you can find a study that is based on non-anecdotal evidence proving that high school students clearly understand what to look for in medical schools, I'll retract my opinion.

And when you find a study that is based on non-anecdotal evidence proving that I have no clue what I am talking about, I'll retract mine.

Until then, all we have to rely on is anecdotal evidence.

So why then did you designate your equally biased anecdotes as having a greater value?

And my anecdotal evidence tells me that high school students can't possibly make educated decisions about medical school. It's not because they're stupid - it's because they don't have the experience to.

My anecdotal evidence says otherwise. Then again, they're only anecdotal, but I'm not here telling you that my anecdotes are worth more than yours. 🙄

My job is not to recruit them for the specific program; my job is to explain to them why my undergrad is a great place to get an education before moving along to med school.

Okay...and you can't get this from an 8 year program? At all?

*cough*

I just think it's irresponsible to pigeon hole insecure high school students into attending X school when they don't know anything about the process or about what to look for in medical schools.

This is understandable, except you're forgetting that not every college junior can have the opportunity to "pick and choose" what kind of a medical school they would like to go to. Some people have to take what they get, even if it means being miserable for the next four years of their life. This is what many of us will have to go through. Ultimately, it is a means to an end.

But now lets look at you. I know you've probably heard this ad nauseam, but you can't ignore the fact that you are a huge exception when you make statements like the aforementioned. You have a 41 on the MCAT, you have a 4.00 GPA and a 3.99 Science GPA. Looking at the rest of your MDApps, you're an amazing applicant. You had to have worked your *** off to achieve what you have achieved, and that is admirable to people like me. However, you're an exception, a huge exception. Of course you'll tell people that they should wait to see what happens when they gain experience about "what to look for in medical schools," but that can go two different ways for somebody like you with a 41 on the MCAT and a 4.00 GPA, and somebody with a 24 on the MCAT and a 3.5 GPA.

I can't assume that I will have the opportunity to interview at amazing institutions like Johns Hopkins or even Yale if I had taken the normal route. It is easy for you to say that we, as high school students, may be insecure because we are being pigeonholed...but most of us won't even be able to achieve a fraction of what you have achieved in only four years, simply because we're all different. Some of us can easily memorize facts in huge chunks at a time. Some of us need to study nearly 24 hours a day in order to retain information that seemingly everybody else seems to get except for you. For most high schoolers going into college as pre-med, they won't even end up becoming physicians!

That's why I love the BS/MD programs so much, because it gives me the opportunity to explore my options in college and explore other activities that I wouldn't have a chance in the world of doing if I had gone the normal route, all while having a guaranteed seat. Sure, I probably won't score a 41 on the MCAT, but it's not fair to assume that we should all be like you when it comes to looking for that "special something" in a medical school. Again, for some of us, we will not always have the luxury to pick and choose where we want to go. For most of us, we never will.