Stanford vs UC Davis

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eric k

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I have interviews at both of Stanford and UC Davis but will only be traveling to one of them. Is there anyone out there that has interviewed there recently or in the past? I would love to hear some opinions. Thanks. Good luck to all!

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I also got interview offers from UCIrvine, UCDavis, and Stanford but I decided that I will only travel to Stanford because of cost and time. I have heard that UCDavis is pretty cush but I think name wise, Stanford is a little higher. (I dont' know if you care but they are on the USNews list) Plus, they have a fellowship that I would be interested in pursuing. I may not have made the right decision in some ppl's opionions though...

I guess it depends on what you are looking for, where you are looking to live, whether you want to do a fellowship, what area of PM&R you are interested in, and whether the name means anything to you. Davis seems to have a nice peds rotation through shriners. sacramento is nice and residents seem happy. I also heard that they were more DO friendly. (I'm an allopathic student so I'm not sure if that is true) The facilities were not as nice as Stanford though. But these are all observations from one visit during the summer (not an interview).

In general, the west coast programs are not as strong as the east coast programs and I really had to ask myself if I would choose any of the west coast programs over programs like RIC, Kessler, JFK, Temple, or Jeff. For me, the only one I would consider was Stanford. But that is my personal preference. I also decided not to interview at Boston University or Tufts after getting rejected from Spaulding - I didn't think it was worth my time and money either. If you have all the time and money in the world, why not go to both?

Anyways, GOOD LUCK!!
 
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axm397,

Sorry, I did not get back to you earlier. Glad to here that your interview went well at stanford. I have decided that I will only be going to UC Davis for an interview. I emailed a PGY2 earlier on and will include her response below, hope it helps in some way...


1. Months of inpatient vs. outpatient- The first year
and a half is mainly inpatient and the last year and a
half is mainly outpt. This year I will spend 2months
on outpt and the rest on inpt. Honestly, everyone's
scedule is different but on average this is how it has
been.
> 2. Consult Months- during your first year their is
no real consult month, but when you do your TBI
rotation you also do consults. Other house officers
also help out.
> 3. EMG training- this year I am getting no EMG
training but it varies. Two of my classmates are doing
2-3 months this year. On average once you leave the
program you get a fair amount of EMG's.
> 4. Any Interventional experience, where you are
> actually performing the injections- yes, you can get
expeiece in doing interventions. some on inpaitent.
But mostly once you are an R2 and R3. I haven't had a
lot of experience this year.
> 5. Interactions with attendings- In our program you
work one to one with the attendings. They are all
really nice. Some of them aren't the greatest
teachers. Next year we are getting a Spinal cord
attending that is graduating from RIC she is so
amazing. I am really excited about her. She trained at
RIC and was thier chief resident and she is all about
teaching. I worked with her when I did a rotation at
RIC as a 3rd year and then again this year and I am so
excited!
> 6. Strenths and weaknesses of the program- I will
have to answer this one later too much information.
> 7. How is the MSK experience- you get hardly any in
your first year then all of it in your 2nd and 3rd
year.
> 8. Are you happy or not and why- there was some
difficulty at first but now I am happy. It is hard to
move to a new area and settle down, learn a new way of
doing things and a new program.
> 9. How expensive is it to live in the area- pretty
expensive but the area has calmed down much more. alot
of my fellow classmates live in mountainview and pay
about 800 in rent.
> 10. Hours/day on different services- each service
varies. right now I am doing pedi rehab and barely
work 20hours per week. Last month I did SCI and was
there late. 60-70hours. some months are harder than
other months but it all equals out in the end.
> 11. Call schedule/pay- call is about Q7. you do
2weekends every three months.
> 12. Opinion of program- It is a great program. the
area is amazing. There are 5of us in my class and we
are all best friends. We go out on the weekend, hang
around and help each other out.
 
Thanks for the info! Good luck on your interview. I just found out that I could have interviewed at both places had I scheduled them back to back on friday and saturday. Maybe you can see if that is possible for you??
 
Bump...

Does anybody have any more perspectives on Davis vs. Stanford?

Thanks!
 
i interviewed at both these places.

stanford is the bigger of the 2 programs, and i'd say is more inpt heavy if you consider that davis is very strong in outpt msk. in fact, a former chair? at uc davis thought it an insult if anyone graduated from there and went into msk fellowship, that's the angle of the program basically.

davis has 3 per year, and it is a tight knit group of guys/girls. they all seemed very happy to be there. not that stanford's residents disliked it, but davis just seemed like they were stoked to be there and some at stanford said that they initially preferred davis over stanford in their rank list. obviously now though they are saying that their program is just as good for them especially if you don't know which area you want to go into or if you plan to have a broad scoped practice. and generally speaking, even people from stanford said if you want outpt msk, davis is better. plus stanford has a fantastic sports guy, but they don't utilize him/time spent on sports is very limited at stanford, and it was one thing the residents said they would like to change.

i really liked the residents at davis, the senior 3 were such cool down to earth people. stanford has a good group too, although larger cuz i think they take 7 per year?

stanford has multiple sites of work throughout residency, whereas davis is pretty localized, and the pt load is not as large as at stanford from what i gathered. this also translates into lighter calls. stanford was more inpt heavy and they take care of vent pts there, something i dont think goes on at davis. also davis gets you involved each year with outpt pm&r, whereas at stanford it seemed the inpt aspects (which there were more months there than at davis in inpt) where more heavily slanted towards the earlier part of residency and you get to more outpt stuff later on.

stanford was a place that had residents doing more injections though than uc davis (i think this was one of the weak sides to davis in my opinion). in fact stanford had more injection opportunities than several other places i interviewed at during the traveling season.

hope this helps, sorry so random but i threw out all the details from each place after the match.
 
Davis sounds like my kinda place.
How competitive is it given they only take 3 residents per year?
I am from California, with a BA from Florida, and soon to be a MD from Pennsylvania; Does UC Davis (or or any UC) give special consideration to native Californians? What about those who graduated from a California MD/DO school?
 
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Davis sounds like my kinda place.
How competitive is it given they only take 3 residents per year?
I am from California, with a BA from Florida, and soon to be a MD from Pennsylvania; Does UC Davis (or or any UC) give special consideration to native Californians? What about those who graduated from a California MD/DO school?


I don't think any program really cares that you are originally from the same geographic area, except that you might be a happier resident being close to your own family, friends, etc

the UC system favors california residents for undergrad because they are state schools, funded in part by resident tax dollars.

you should rotate there if you want to gun for one of those 3 spots
 
I graduated from UCD last year, so you take my input with a grain of salt and note that my information is probably a year outdated.

i interviewed at both these places.

stanford is the bigger of the 2 programs, and i'd say is more inpt heavy if you consider that davis is very strong in outpt msk. in fact, a former chair? at uc davis thought it an insult if anyone graduated from there and went into msk fellowship, that's the angle of the program basically. .

I think residents come out of UCD with strong enough musculoskeletal skills to practice in many settings. We do have graduates who do a sports fellowship, but with very specific goals in mind to really expand their skills and experiences in the realm of sports medicine. However, I'd agree that no one goes into a general MSK fellowship coming out of here since it's not really needed.


davis has 3 per year, and it is a tight knit group of guys/girls. they all seemed very happy to be there. not that stanford's residents disliked it, but davis just seemed like they were stoked to be there and some at stanford said that they initially preferred davis over stanford in their rank list. obviously now though they are saying that their program is just as good for them especially if you don't know which area you want to go into or if you plan to have a broad scoped practice. and generally speaking, even people from stanford said if you want outpt msk, davis is better. plus stanford has a fantastic sports guy, but they don't utilize him/time spent on sports is very limited at stanford, and it was one thing the residents said they would like to change.

Stanford has some great resources in the sports and musculoskeletal realm. Unfortunately, I can't comment on resident exposure, but maybe others could.

i really liked the residents at davis, the senior 3 were such cool down to earth people. stanford has a good group too, although larger cuz i think they take 7 per year?

Brings up a good point that you want to target programs you'd feel comfortable in for a few years. Some perfer larger or smaller programs and all have their pros/cons.

stanford has multiple sites of work throughout residency, whereas davis is pretty localized, and the pt load is not as large as at stanford from what i gathered. this also translates into lighter calls. stanford was more inpt heavy and they take care of vent pts there, something i dont think goes on at davis. also davis gets you involved each year with outpt pm&r, whereas at stanford it seemed the inpt aspects (which there were more months there than at davis in inpt) where more heavily slanted towards the earlier part of residency and you get to more outpt stuff later on.

UCD inpt is a mix of bread and butter as well as more exotic rehab diagnoses that come through the door. Same for peds rehab at the UCD hospital. Shriners inpt rehab exposure for peds gets lots of SCI/burn/ortho exposure. Some people like getting a mixed exposure throughout their three years of residency, others like to get blocks of different diagnoses (i.e. few months in SCI, few months in TBI, etc.) Depends on your learning style. Inpt exposure is also done throughout the three years from wards as junior/senior residents to consults during last year. I think this was useful when preparing for the written boards during my senior year.


stanford was a place that had residents doing more injections though than uc davis (i think this was one of the weak sides to davis in my opinion). in fact stanford had more injection opportunities than several other places i interviewed at during the traveling season.

I feel like I had adequate numbers for procedures like peripheral joint injections, botox, baclofen troubleshooting/refills, etc- adequate numbers so I could take these skills, troubleshoot as needed, and continue to refine my technique or add new ones. Exposure to fluoroscopic injections are through a PGY-3 rotation with the pain medicine dept and through the VA PM&R dept. I had some exposure to MSK U/S including course put on by Finoff/Smith, however since I left, they've acquired more U/S machines and are utilizing this more frequently for injections and diagnosis. There is more exposure to ABI injections as well as prolotherapy now.

Overall, depends on your priorities for procedures and what your interests are.


hope this helps, sorry so random but i threw out all the details from each place after the match.
 
I'm new to posting in the forum. I have limited time to post. So it won't have the fancy boxed out quotes.

As a corollary to the prior post, I am a soon-to-graduate Stanford resident. Thus, it will be extremely biased; and I won't be able to directly compare to the experience at UCD. As another disclosure, I will be going to an ACGME pain fellowship.

It was a roller-coaster of a three-year experience. As you may or may not have heard, we were on the brink of being on ACGME probabtion. But with the strong work of new leadership (as of 2008), motivated residents, and the full backing of Stanford GME ... we are fully reaccredited by ACGME this past year.

It is a completely revamped program from when I started, and when I first started perusing Studentdoctor.net. Any reviews you may have read pre-2008, is not the Stanford program it is now. The program takes 7 per year. It's large enough, where you won't feel isolated or lonely. At the same time, it's small enough that you don't feel like a cog in the machine.

In terms of the mix, I thought it was evenly mixed inpatient to outpatient. At first, these forums scared me into thinking it was inpatient heavy. But as I went to AAPM&R and AAP meetings, the mix was right on par with all the other big programs. The inpatient balance is definitely front-loaded. The county hospital (Santa Clara Valley Med Ctr) gets you acute TBI, stroke, and SCI patients. At this hospital, there is a step-down unit run by PM&R -- and yes, that meant vent and trach management. We tended to get the acute SCI patients 2-4 days from injury. The other inpatient hospital is the VA, where we are the only west coast VA that treats active duty polytrauma wounded warriors. We get 3-8 new wounded warriors a month from blast injuries leading to TBI, fractures, soft tissue wounds, etc. The other patient mix at the VA are stroke, TBI, and joint replacement for the older vets. VA also has a separate SCI unit. By senior year, you have just 1 inpatient rotation at the VA. Procedures at all hospitals include Botox, bursa, and joint injections.

Outpatient exposure starts the PGY2 year (1 block) but is back-loaded toward the senior year. The VA PM&R gets you general MSK and pain. County hosp gets you TBI, stroke, SCI, baclofen pumps, EMG, and Botox. VA SCI is self explanatory, but it is a major SCI hub in the VA system, which allows you to utilize resources that other places cannot even fathom. Stanford Sports gets you amazing MSK both general population and Stanford Varsity athlete exposure, opportunity to volunteer at sporting events, and EMG. Stanford Spine is a busy clinic but you learn so much about axial spine and large joint care; this clinic also gives you the opportunity to do 1d/wk fluoro injections as a PGY3; and a gazillion neck/back/hip/shoulder fluoro injections as a PGY4 (2d/wk). Stanford Spine also does EMG. Peripheral joint injections are done in all MSK clinics. There is only 1 dedicated EMG rotation at the county hospital. But you get plenty at the VA and Stanford clinics.

Education has also been completely redone. We get protected teaching Wed from 8am-12pm. All attendings do their own work during that time. Of course, you may have to help out with some morning work on certain inpatient rotations after didactics, depending on how busy that service is. The curriculum rotates on an 18m schedule. Time in the gross anatomy lab is also included. Each hopsital also has noon conferences that focus on common diagnoses at the respective institutions.

And as another comment on broad exposure this program has, we send residents to all aspects of PM&R fellowships and private practice. Last year there were 2 sports, 1 pain, and 3 SCI. This year we're sending 2 to private practice, 2 SCI, 1 TBI, 1 peds, 1 Sports, 1 pain.

As you may glean, there is a lot of traveling with this program. But when you live in sunny Silicon Valley, it was actually a bonus for me. And if you're the entrepreneurial type, there's so much venture capital, start ups, and incubators; you'd be like a kid in a candy store. It's also the suburbs, and so parking is never an issue. And despite the suburbia feel, with all the silicon valley types, there's always something to do around town -- not to mention San Francisco being 30 min north and beaches (e.g., Santa Cruz, Monterey, Half Moon Bay) 30-45 min west. Stanford benefits are amazing and they throw money at us. On top of an amazing base salary, we get two yearly bonuses (January and August). They cover all health (inc vision and dental), life, and disability insurance at no extra cost to us.

Areas I'd like to see improve over the next several years include Pediatrics and P&O. But overall awesome time here in the bay.

One of the only drawbacks that I can directly comment on Stanford vs UC Davis, is that skiing is much closer to UCD than Stanford. I'm used to doing day trips for skiing, and driving 4 hours to the mountain and at times up to 8 hours coming back (due to blizzards, traffic, etc) ... was a bit taxing.

Hope that helps for prospective applicants wondering about us. I don't check this forum much ... maybe I will now. But if you have any other questions, please PM me.
 
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