Starting Out/ Considering Career with Animals

[bbeventer]

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A recent grad put it this way "I just tell students not to have dreams and to go on welfare".
I'm seriously scared about my prospects after graduating, and I wish someone hit me over the head in UG and pushed me into engineering or something where a person can make six figures with a bachelors. Not that I don't love vet med, I just don't want to drown in it.

 

[Minnerbelle]

A recent grad put it this way "I just tell students not to have dreams and to go on welfare".
I'm seriously scared about my prospects after graduating, and I wish someone hit me over the head in UG and pushed me into engineering or something where a person can make six figures with a bachelors. Not that I don't love vet med, I just don't want to drown in it.

What welfare can you go on though, if you have a >$25,000 salary (pretty much the lowest it'll be including internships)

 

[dyachei]

This made me take a look at my bills and think about whether I could live off of $1200 a month. I really have no concept of how much health insurance, dues, retirement funds, etc. would cost out there in the real world, but in rough estimation, I think to live on $1200 a month with having to pay for insurance, given how much I currently pay in bills/groceries/gas, I would have to squeeze myself into a house with 4+ roommates in order to be able to attempt to make rent. Not so sure I'd want to be doing that once I'm a vet. Heck, I don't even do that now. And this is considering cost of living is fairly reasonable here. AND I have a short commute and I'm pretty thrifty with my utilities. I'd never ever be able to buy anything other than groceries and very basic personal care items. No new clothes, no impulse purchases for the cat, no books or movies. Would never be able to afford to do anything fun. Probably wouldn't be able to afford to run the air conditioner either. And that doesn't count expenses I pay once or twice a year like car registration and insurance and renters insurance... and probably no room to save for retirement. Not sure getting your loans paid off in 10 years is worth all that. And oops, I totally forgot about the cost of all my prescriptions meds, which probably add up to at least $100 a month with decent insurance. So basically, I couldn't even live off of $1200 a month unless my various insurances were covered by my job, no matter how thrifty I was. Gosh, that's depressing.

Which is why I was stressing my point earlier. Thats on a 10 year repayment plan

 

[BlackDog17]

Is there data available anywhere on how long it generally takes for vets to pay off their student loans?

 

[bbeventer]

Is there data available anywhere on how long it generally takes for vets to pay off their student loans?

If you really want to make yourself depressed:
http://www.vinfoundation.org/AppUti...357&objecttypeid=10&redirectFromMiscDefault=1

 

[Minnerbelle]

Which is why I was stressing my point earlier. Thats on a 10 year repayment plan

Yup. I just brought up the 10 yr repayment plan to illustrate that a 10 yr plan for many OOS students (and some IS) is not really doable without personal wealth. It was only to counter the "well, i heard an OOS student say that it would be doable on a 10 yr plan so i thought pre-vets should hear about it" argument.

On a $200,000 loan for someone graduating in the class of 2018 with $70k starting salary with 3.5% increase per year. The total amount s/he would need to pay over 25 years (including tax bill at the end) is $347k with IBR, and $245k with PAYE over 20 years. That is much more doable. Shoot that loan amount up to $300,000 and that becomes $500k over 25 years with IBR and $340k over 20 years with PAYE. That means on average you should save/pay $1400 to $1600 per month throughout your entire repayment period. Not bad at all given how much you actually owe. And that is why the world is not crumbling down.

My only hesitation with this like Dyachei said, is that I'm not sure if these government subsidies will continue forever. I mean... only $40k interest on a $300k loan over 20 years??? That's like 0.66% interest. That's less than inflation... When the government is in a financial crunch like it is in now, I'm not sure how charitable they'll continue to feel for people willingly acquiring massive debt for professional schools. 20-25 years (plus another 4 years you're in vet school if you're just matriculating) is a long time for things to change.

 

[dovelover]

This kind of reminds me of how our hospital director came into our professional development class last semester to run us through his personal finance calculators... and we were all like, how the heck are we supposed to have any idea what we are going to paying in rent/mortgage, or what our salaries could possibly be? Especially for those who don't have a highly defined career goal or a very competitive one they might not end up in? Or are going to be willing to move anywhere in the country for a job, which means a whole range of cost of living scenarios. Plus, who knows what will happen with loans and repayment plans by the time we actually enter repayment? The government likes to change these things on a frequent basis. I kind of just assume I'm going to be in a bad place financially and don't really worry about the details right now. If it turns out to be better than I thought, well, then that's just a bonus.

I think the best you can do before you actually get out there is to gain an understanding and appreciation of financial planning so that you are prepared when you actually have some numbers to work with, and to practice keeping a budget and living frugally. Because believe me, living frugally takes practice, especially when you grew up with a mother who encouraged and enabled your shop-therapy and impulse buying habit.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Is there data available anywhere on how long it generally takes for vets to pay off their student loans?

Well I mean... <25 years.
Again, it really matters what your personal situation is. Even if there was a published value for an "average" veterinarian, that number would be pretty useless for individuals.

 

[dyachei]

I'm lucky - because I'm married I will be able to pay off my loans in 10 years. That doesn't mean that those 10 years don't suck and that I havent made major sacrifices.

 

[pp9]

Yup. I just brought up the 10 yr repayment plan to illustrate that a 10 yr plan for many OOS students (and some IS) is not really doable without personal wealth. It was only to counter the "well, i heard an OOS student say that it would be doable on a 10 yr plan so i thought pre-vets should hear about it" argument.

On a $200,000 loan for someone graduating in the class of 2018 with $70k starting salary with 3.5% increase per year. The total amount s/he would need to pay over 25 years (including tax bill at the end) is $347k with IBR, and $245k with PAYE over 20 years. That is much more doable. Shoot that loan amount up to $300,000 and that becomes $500k over 25 years with IBR and $340k over 20 years with PAYE. That means on average you should save/pay $1400 to $1600 per month throughout your entire repayment period. Not bad at all given how much you actually owe. And that is why the world is not crumbling down.

My only hesitation with this like Dyachei said, is that I'm not sure if these government subsidies will continue forever. I mean... only $40k interest on a $300k loan over 20 years??? That's like 0.66% interest. That's less than inflation... When the government is in a financial crunch like it is in now, I'm not sure how charitable they'll continue to feel for people willingly acquiring massive debt for professional schools. 20-25 years (plus another 4 years you're in vet school if you're just matriculating) is a long time for things to change.

Just chiming in....it wasn't an "argument." Just pointing out to the OP that someone I know managed to figure it out without personal wealth. I do not know further details. Perhaps I could ask, but I feel that is crossing a line. Not really necessary to re-phrase my post like that...

 

[dyachei]

Just chiming in....it wasn't an "argument." Just pointing out to the OP that someone I know managed to figure it out without personal wealth. I do not know further details. Perhaps I could ask, but I feel that is crossing a line. Not really necessary to re-phrase my post like that...

Yeah but our question is w/o knowing they are hired, how do they know their 10 yr plan is feasible. Have they considered all the costs, etc.

The people giving advice here are either in the workforce or in vet school and are close to finishing. keep that in mind

 

[pp9]

Yes, I understand that. Hence the "I'm not sure if that's even doable or not." Merely providing info that the OP could look into is he/she desires. /end

 

[bunnity]

I super encourage anyone in vet school or graduating to talk to a financial adviser especially one that is familiar with student loans. Our VBMA paid for a student loan expert to come to the school and give each of us individual financial planning meetings, and it was extremely helpful. There is a lot of speculation and exaggeration on both sides of this issue and although we will be animal health experts, we are not necessarily financial experts so it is best to get real information that is specific to one's own situation. A good place to start for people considering vet school is studentloans.gov, which has info on the various repayment plans and calculators that let you estimate your total debt and monthly payments on the different plans.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Just chiming in....it wasn't an "argument."

sorry, my bad. you weren't arguing.

Just pointing out to the OP that someone I know managed to figure it out without personal wealth.

My whole point was that I find it highly questionable that this person actually has managed to figure it out on a 10 year plan without personal wealth. Plus... what financial advisor advises vet students with OOS debt (unless it's a super cheap school) to go on a 10 year plan nowadays...? I've talked to a number of different financial advisors, financial aids people, and other business gurus... and I've never heard anyone discuss a 10 year plan with the amount of debt we're talking about.

I do not know further details. Perhaps I could ask, but I feel that is crossing a line.

No one is asking you to ask. I honestly don't care where this person got the idea that it's "manageable" or what "manageable" actually means for this person.

Not really necessary to re-phrase my post like that...

again, I apologize, and I'll make sure to paraphrase anything else you say with a little more thought.

 

[pp9]

sorry, my bad. you weren't arguing.


My whole point was that I find it highly questionable that this person actually has managed to figure it out on a 10 year plan without personal wealth. Plus... what financial advisor advises vet students with OOS debt (unless it's a super cheap school) to go on a 10 year plan nowadays...? I've talked to a number of different financial advisors, financial aids people, and other business gurus... and I've never heard anyone discuss a 10 year plan with the amount of debt we're talking about.

No one is asking you to ask. I honestly don't care where this person got the idea that it's "manageable" or what "manageable" actually means for this person.

again, I apologize, and I'll make sure to paraphrase anything else you say with a little more thought.

Thank you, Minnerbelle! I'm not pretending to be financially astute by any means.

Anyways, it's starting to really suck to want to be a vet based on what appears to be the downward trend in the industry. It's hard to find information that's honest and accurate (especially regarding the supposed vet shortages). I can't tell you how many times I've been told that we're in desperate need of LA/government/military/industry vets, only to hear from other sources that it isn't the case. Jobs, please.

 

[dyachei]

Thank you, Minnerbelle! I'm not pretending to be financially astute by any means.

Anyways, it's starting to really suck to want to be a vet based on what appears to be the downward trend in the industry. It's hard to find information that's honest and accurate (especially regarding the supposed vet shortages). I can't tell you how many times I've been told that we're in desperate need of LA/government/military/industry vets, only to hear from other sources that it isn't the case. Jobs, please.

give me about 2-3 years and i will be hiring 😉

 

[Bernsters83]

Yup

 

[pp9]

In general, you'll never make any money working for someone else... when you assume the risk you also assume the benefits. I've always liked the idea of being self-sufficient like living on a farm where I grew all the crops needed to sustain my animals and family. HAHA I'm only slightly delusional.

In all seriousness, the veterinarians I know that really do well have sacrificed to have their own places and in the long run it pays off.

My current experience with a vet owning her own business is actually convincing me to never own my own clinic. The stress of making ends meet and paying off those $60,000 Merial bills seems to take a toll on her. I'm sure this isn't always the case, but my own experience tells me that the liabilities and responsibilities are crushing. She works 12-16 hour days, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. However, at the clinic I used to work at, the owner owned a chain and seemed to have a a comfortable lifestyle (read: BIG house). That owner had vets working for him, and he would pop in once a week to each clinic.

If anyone has more light to shed on what it's like to own a vet clinic....

 

[dyachei]

My current experience with a vet owning her own business is actually convincing me to never own my own clinic. The stress of making ends meet and paying off those $60,000 Merial bills seems to take a toll on her. I'm sure this isn't always the case, but my own experience tells me that the liabilities and responsibilities are crushing. She works 12-16 hour days, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. However, at the clinic I used to work at, the owner owned a chain and seemed to have a a comfortable lifestyle (read: BIG house). That owner had vets working for him, and he would pop in once a week to each clinic.

If anyone has more light to shed on what it's like to own a vet clinic....

well, i'm in the process of opening my own. there are a lot of factors involved but i am happy to answer specifics

 

[TXvet]

If I may ask, how much debt did you have coming out? It sounds like you graduated nearly 20 years ago, and while starting salaries were lower then, I imagine debt load was too. Honestly not trying to be confrontational--just looking for some perspective.
Also, I'm curious as someone attending A&M (assuming you're an alum) who should graduate with under $150K before interest, and that includes graduate debt.
Thanks!

Yes, my debt load was 1/2 of what yours will be. I am not sure I would pursue vet med now if my debt would exceed 100,000. I have a great job-have been here for 16 years, starting the 17th and make very good money with good benefits, so I feel I am one of the lucky ones. I definitely would not recommend going overseas or to a private college. If I had not been accepted to A&M I would have kept trying, there is no way I would have applied anywhere else (but back then it was not the norm to apply to a bunch of different vet schools). I also would not attempt to apply if I were an older student, you only have so much time to pay back the loans and save for retirement. I would hate to be in my 30's, saddled with 250,000 in debt and just beginning my career. Again, this is just my outlook.

As far as owning a clinic, I have several friends that have their own clinic-it is A LOT of work. I have no desire to worry about something 24 hrs, 7 days a week. I work 3 days a week and when I am off, I am off. I make 2 to 3 times the amount they do, but they do get to call their own shots. For some people that is worth more than anything. These friends had bad associate experiences and just found they could not work for other people. I am very happy being an associate.

I have met several 4th years in the last 6 months that want to come to my area but are stressed as the job market in this area is very poor. It is a very desirable city that pays poorly and to be honest only has a handful of decent clinics (I would only work for maybe 5 clinics in this city). Most will likely end up working at a less than desirable clinic and leave after a year or two (I call these clinics new grad mills). Again, I am so lucky to have found this job, work with people I like, practice great medicine and make good money.