Step score cut-offs for residency programs

[keforce]

Can someone tell me the cut-off scores for step 1 and 2 for some of the following residency programs in internal medicine. Even though on the website of some of these programs states that they do not have a cut-off score. I am hoping someone here who's a program director or on the admissions board can tell more. Thanks.


Cleveland Clinic
Mayo Clinic
BWH
Johns Hopkins
MGH
Presbyterian Hospital NYC (Columbia/Cornell)
Texas Heart Institute St Luke's Episcopal
Duke
Stanford
UCLA
William Beaumont Hospital(Royal Oak, Mich.)
NYU
Cedars-Sinai
Lenox Hill Hosp., NY
Emory
St Francis Hosp. (Roslyn, NY)
Univ. Pennsylvania
UCSF
Vandy
Univ. Michigan
Univ. Chicago
Abbott Northwestern Hosp. (Minneapolis)
Univ. Arizona
Univ. Kansas
Univ. Minnesota
Northwestern
Yale
Univ. Maryland
Rush

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[Rogue_Leader]

The programs you've listed run the gamut from the mid level to the high elite, as such there won't be a single answer to your question. When it comes to Step I cutoffs, it's generally accepted that the more competitive residencies won't even look at your application unless your score is above a certain arbitrary point. If you meet that, then your application is reviewed in the context of all your other accomplishments. The number bandied about is 230 on step I to meet any arbitrary cutoff at any program, and if you meet that, then the people reviewing your application will look for other reasons to reject you. Obviously, the less competitive the program is, the lower the cutoff is (if they even use one at all).

 

[muscles]

Agree with above comment by rogue...
A lot of the more competitive places you mentioned screen applicants by looking at step I scores. The number I was always told that you need to pass the screening was 230 on step I - if you beat that, then you are interview-eligible. After that, its about good looks and smooth talkin😀.

In my opinion, Step II doesn't seem to matter that much - I was only asked about step 2 once (at Mayo clinic in rochester); nobody else seemed to care. I asked about this once and was told that it is too hard to account for step II because many applicants still haven't taken it or released their scores before interview season ends.

 

[CptNemo]

Yeah, it doesn't seem like they look at Step 2 too much. It's a shame because Step 2 CK is quite a bit more clinically oriented than Step 1 and is more applicable towards practical knowledge necessary for medicine.

I'd be in favor of making everyone take it somewhat early and then using the aggregate of the two scores... then, all the pressure doesn't rest on one day (now much of the admissions process on a sample size of 1 test... great...).

 

[DrWBD]

Your list includes St. Francis Hospital, but there is no internal medicine residency program there.

 

[Int Med 2008]

These lists cutoff points are semi-useless because they depend so much on where you went to school and your grades If you are talking top tier programs, if you went to HMS I'd say you need a 235 and honors in half of your 3rd year clerkships to get interviews at the other top tier programs. If you go to a lower tier school, you probably need closer to 250 and AOA with honors in all your 3rd year courses.

 

[BobA]

I met with my home institution's IM PD and basically put this same question to them and got some good feedback. I had an average Step I score and was told that only the top tier programs like Hopkins, MGH, and UCSF would be "off the table" but otherwise my average Step 1 score wouldn't hold me back from getting interviews.

I'd suspect other PD's would be willing to have similar conversations since so many of them would love to recruit their own students. My PD seemed to appreciate the face time to sell the home program. Also, these people are PD's because they like talking about this stuff - it's in their nature.

Tobey

 

[velo]

Yeah, it doesn't seem like they look at Step 2 too much. It's a shame because Step 2 CK is quite a bit more clinically oriented than Step 1 and is more applicable towards practical knowledge necessary for medicine.

I'd be in favor of making everyone take it somewhat early and then using the aggregate of the two scores... then, all the pressure doesn't rest on one day (now much of the admissions process on a sample size of 1 test... great...).

There are whispers of actually combining the two tests to create some un-holey monster step to be taken ~the time of the current Step II.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=461574

With regards to the rest of your post, I don't know if more weight needs to be given to Step II in the residency application process. First of all, even though questions are framed more clinically, I thought they were just as silly as the Step I questions--frequently what I would actually do wasn't even an option. Also, my sense is that it's a much easier test. I studied only a fraction as much for Step II as for Step I and took it with a great deal of apathy (one week before match day, so the scores didn't matter at all 🙂 ) and I got almost the exact same score as I got on Step I (within 2 points).

 

[ucsfstudents]

I agree with everything that has been said. Target goal is above 230 to be safe. Some schools like UCSF are pretty strict about those numbers.

 

[jiy76]

What if your step 2 score is over 230 but your step 1 isn't? Obviously not for the top programs but what about the mid level ones?

 

[medsRus]

What if your step 2 score is over 230 but your step 1 isn't? Obviously not for the top programs but what about the mid level ones?

Step 1 counts most...

 

[jdh71]

Step 1 counts most...

don't believe that

while, step 1 is commonly used as a screening tool, step 2 score is the only score that has had any statistical correlation with how well a resident will do in residency

so if you show up to the interview process with a high step 2, step 1 matters dick

 

[medsRus]

don't believe that

while, step 1 is commonly used as a screening tool, step 2 score is the only score that has had any statistical correlation with how well a resident will do in residency

so if you show up to the interview process with a high step 2, step 1 matters dick

I base my response on hundreds of of program directors surveyed in published reports. Simple...

 

[jiy76]

I base my response on hundreds of of program directors surveyed in published reports. Simple...

I think the answer is "It depends" It depends which specialty you are applying for where you are applying and how the rest of your application looks. If you got a 210 on step 1 and >230 on step 2 I think step 1 would not matter much if you are applying for lesser competitive fields. If you were applying to Derm or Rads or ENT it would still matter because they need to weed people out somehow.Same thing if you were applying to psych or IM but at MGH or Duke.Also this is probably where LOR's, grades in your clerkships etc come into play.

 

[jdh71]

I base my response on hundreds of of program directors surveyed in published reports. Simple...

O RLY?

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty.pdf

For internal medicine pages 51-57

72% of internal medicine programs responding to the survey said that Step 2 is an important factor in making a decision about a candidate

Mean importance of Factors on a 5 point scale with 1 being low importance and 5 being highest importance

Step 1: 3.6

Step 2: 3.7

55.9% of internal medicine programs require a step 2 score with a target passing score

Glad I stopped back by. You're welcome.

 

[KonHndrkx]

do any of the programs posted by the OP (or any other medical residency, for that matter) actual publish these "cut-off" scores?


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Fight me. http://konhndrkx.mybrute.com

 

[muscles]

If you wanted to know about a specific program, you could always call the program office and just ask. When I was applying, program directors/secretaries etc... were pretty honest about these things.

 

[Labslave]

Glad I stopped back by. You're welcome.

Step 1 cutoff scores are in place at top programs in order to get an interview, as noted before. Because ERAS allows for programs to filter applicants based on these cutoffs, it's definitely the case that there are elite programs out there that wouldn't give a flying f@*k if you had a 280 on step 2 if your step 1 was shiat. They'll still never see your application.

Although it might be the case that programs do give more consideration to an applicant's step 2 score after they have already interviewed when ranking applicants (as evidenced by your data), it can be argued that step 1 is still more important in the overall process since it gets your foot in the door.

I won't include an animation.

 

[medsRus]

Step 1 cutoff scores are in place at top programs in order to get an interview, as noted before. Because ERAS allows for programs to filter applicants based on these cutoffs, it's definitely the case that there are elite programs out there that wouldn't give a flying f@*k if you had a 280 on step 2 if your step 1 was shiat. They'll still never see your application.

Although it might be the case that programs do give more consideration to an applicant's step 2 score after they have already interviewed when ranking applicants (as evidenced by your data), it can be argued that step 1 is still more important in the overall process since it gets your foot in the door.

I won't include an animation.

Great point... Step 1 remains the main score.

 

[mrpankration]

When I met with my IM advisor who also happens to be the associate PD for IM at my school, the first question he asked me when putting together a list of programs I should apply to was what my Step 1 score was. Step 1 is what will open or close doors. I think Step 2 may come into play once programs are ranking applicants and have to choose between applicants with similar qualifications.

 

[jdh71]

Step 1 cutoff scores are in place at top programs in order to get an interview, as noted before. Because ERAS allows for programs to filter applicants based on these cutoffs, it's definitely the case that there are elite programs out there that wouldn't give a flying f@*k if you had a 280 on step 2 if your step 1 was shiat. They'll still never see your application.

Although it might be the case that programs do give more consideration to an applicant's step 2 score after they have already interviewed when ranking applicants (as evidenced by your data), it can be argued that step 1 is still more important in the overall process since it gets your foot in the door.

I won't include an animation.

You wouldn't need any animation because you've not countered anything I've said, which was:

"while, step 1 is commonly used as a screening tool, step 2 score is the only score that has had any statistical correlation with how well a resident will do in residency

so if you show up to the interview process with a high step 2, step 1 matters dick "​

So while step 1 is used as a screen, if you show up to the interview process, step 2 matters more.

Furthermore the trend per the research is higher and higher emphasis being placed on step 2 . . . "55.9% of internal medicine programs require a step 2 score with a target passing score"

You can do what you want hoss, but if you want to make sure you get the spot you want, better take step 2 and do well.

 

[medsRus]

You wouldn't need any animation because you've not countered anything I've said, which was:

"while, step 1 is commonly used as a screening tool, step 2 score is the only score that has had any statistical correlation with how well a resident will do in residency

so if you show up to the interview process with a high step 2, step 1 matters dick "​

So while step 1 is used as a screen, if you show up to the interview process, step 2 matters more.

Furthermore the trend per the research is higher and higher emphasis being placed on step 2 . . . "55.9% of internal medicine programs require a step 2 score with a target passing score"

You can do what you want hoss, but if you want to make sure you get the spot you want, better take step 2 and do well.

It is just understood that Step 1 is practically mandatory for selecting applicants... It is clearly the most important score in the game.

 

[Labslave]

Furthermore the trend per the research is higher and higher emphasis being placed on step 2 . . . "55.9% of internal medicine programs require a step 2 score with a target passing score"

You can do what you want hoss, but if you want to make sure you get the spot you want, better take step 2 and do well.

Step 2 is important (and becoming increasingly important) in the selection process, but that's not what you were arguing. You were responding to a comment by medsRus in which he stated that Step 1 counts most...and you disagreed...and provided stats to back it up. I think it's hard to disagree given what I said above. But if that's not enough...

You should also take a closer look at the data published in the NRMP 2008 report:

1. A full 19% of IM programs don't require any Step 2 score at all (vs. only 1% of programs that don't require a Step 1). (page 59)

2. Data for the mean values you cited above (3.7 vs. 3.6) also includes a range (+/- 1 SD) that in this case overlaps to a ridiculous degree...and that makes any difference between these values statistically insignificant. No matter what you're using this data for, it's weak.

 

[jiy76]

Step 1 is "more important" because its taken by everyone before residency applications are sent and can be used as a screening tool.If a person has a so so step 1 and an outstanding step 2 the step 2 score holds a lot of weight and can make up for a lot.Its all relative to your situation and the places and field you are applying to.

 

[gutonc]

Let's make it a little more concrete. Step 1 is a screening test. Think of it as a PSA. If your Step 1 is 190, it's like having a PSA of 1.2 @ age 60. Nobody cares. Get a 250 or a 10.6 (respectively) and pretty much everyone will be taking a 2nd look.

Step 2 is like the prostate biopsy. A little more trouble than the first one but much more specific. Score highly on this one and people will really care. But only if you made it this far. Nobody with a PSA of 1.2 gets a biopsy, but we pay more attention to the folks with PSAs of 10.6 and a Gleason 2+2.

 

[jdh71]

It is just understood that Step 1 is practically mandatory for selecting applicants... It is clearly the most important score in the game.

BS

It only get your foot in the door, you know how many people with outstanding step one scores who interviewed at Hopkins matched there? About 10-15% of those interviewing.

Doing well on step one will help, no doubt, but if you don't have a good step 2 and someone else does, all you've done is guarantee yourself a bunch of interviews and you might get scooped by some chump with a solid step 2.

I don't think you're understanding the politics here, especially with step one score averages creeping up - the test is carrying less and less weight every year.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

BS

It only get your foot in the door, you know how many people with outstanding step one scores who interviewed at Hopkins matched there? About 10-15% of those interviewing.

Doing well on step one will help, no doubt, but if you don't have a good step 2 and someone else does, all you've done is guarantee yourself a bunch of interviews and you might get scooped by some chump with a solid step 2.

I don't think you're understanding the politics here, especially with step one score averages creeping up - the test is carrying less and less weight every year.

It seems that Step 1 never mattered as much to IM residencies, even the ultraprestigious ones like Harvard, Hopkins, and UCSF, as it does to other specialties, like radiology and dermatology. However, I don't think the 10-15% who are getting into Hopkins are getting in because of Step 2; most people with high Step 1s defer Step 2 till later in the process, because it can only be a negative (if you do poorly) and does little to bolster an already strong application. The 10-15% are getting in because of famous recommendation writers, outstanding extracurriculars, lots of research or PhDs, or just stellar clinical rotation grades and evaluations, etc.

 

[jiy76]

It seems that Step 1 never mattered as much to IM residencies, even the ultraprestigious ones like Harvard, Hopkins, and UCSF, as it does to other specialties, like radiology and dermatology. However, I don't think the 10-15% who are getting into Hopkins are getting in because of Step 2; most people with high Step 1s defer Step 2 till later in the process, because it can only be a negative (if you do poorly) and does little to bolster an already strong application. The 10-15% are getting in because of famous recommendation writers, outstanding extracurriculars, lots of research or PhDs, or just stellar clinical rotation grades and evaluations, etc.

Thats correct on both points. Step 1 matters more in the competitive residencies because well........they are more competitive!...they need something to weed people out. Everyone has taken step 1 so its easier to weed out people with less than lets say 230 for radiology programs.Not that step 2 isn't more important its just that step 1 is a better weeding tool since everyone has taken the exam.

 

[jdh71]

It seems that Step 1 never mattered as much to IM residencies, even the ultraprestigious ones like Harvard, Hopkins, and UCSF, as it does to other specialties, like radiology and dermatology. However, I don't think the 10-15% who are getting into Hopkins are getting in because of Step 2; most people with high Step 1s defer Step 2 till later in the process, because it can only be a negative (if you do poorly) and does little to bolster an already strong application. The 10-15% are getting in because of famous recommendation writers, outstanding extracurriculars, lots of research or PhDs, or just stellar clinical rotation grades and evaluations, etc.

You missed the point mercapto my friend, that being whatever it is that gets you an interview is not always enough in land you a residency spot.

You've got to remember most program interview about 8-10 people per open spot, so your chance of finding a spot at any one program by itself is 10-15% by the numbers alone, so you need to make sure you have many factors in the bag, including step 2, which will increase your chances outside the raw probabilities.

 

[oci25]

I'm not sure how much step 1 vs 2 really matters, but I have heard of people in my medical school who were denied an interview when they first applied but then emailed or called the program asking them to reconsider based upon their improvement on step 2 as compared to step 1 (as well as probably other things). I've heard that several of them subsequently got interviews at those places and even matched there.

That being said I was curious what you guys think about my individual case being that I had a 217 on step 1 and a 244 on step 2. I was wondering if given these scores I have really helped my application or just simply not hurt it (both in the aspect of getting interviews and securing a match at a given program). I am planning on going into internal medicine . Thanks for any feedback I can get

 

[dreamfox]

a 244 on step 2 will definitely help your application if you scored a 217 on step 1.

I'm not sure how much step 1 vs 2 really matters, but I have heard of people in my medical school who were denied an interview when they first applied but then emailed or called the program asking them to reconsider based upon their improvement on step 2 as compared to step 1 (as well as probably other things). I've heard that several of them subsequently got interviews at those places and even matched there.

That being said I was curious what you guys think about my individual case being that I had a 217 on step 1 and a 244 on step 2. I was wondering if given these scores I have really helped my application or just simply not hurt it (both in the aspect of getting interviews and securing a match at a given program). I am planning on going into internal medicine . Thanks for any feedback I can get

 

[phisigman03]

a 244 on step 2 will definitely help your application if you scored a 217 on step 1.

SO are you saying that 217 is a bad score? I too received a 217/90 on my step 1 and will take the step 2 in sept. I am also trying to match into a university program not necessary a big one but just a university program will do. Keep in mine I got 1 maybe 2 publishing paper(s) and I am a Ross student. What do you think I should do?

 

[jiy76]

Its not a bad score if u do better on step 2 you can get into a good program.If you were at a u.s school u would get into a very good program.

 

[phisigman03]

Its not a bad score if u do better on step 2 you can get into a good program.If you were at a u.s school u would get into a very good program.

Does the word good program means university program? Or a good program being Harvard, UT southwestern and etc?

Sorry for being annoying but the Match appl is due soon and I can't really keep my mind straight. There is a bit in me that said I will be fine while the other half is saying I am screwed.

 

[jiy76]

Does the word good program means university program? Or a good program being Harvard, UT southwestern and etc?

Sorry for being annoying but the Match appl is due soon and I can't really keep my mind straight. There is a bit in me that said I will be fine while the other half is saying I am screwed.

Good program means decent middle tier university program. Harvard and other elite programs are tough for u.s students and impossible for carib grads.

 

[internals]

What if I fail step 1 on first try and get >230 on the second try but don't have a step 2 score before interviews, would I still have a chance at top schools? what about mid tier schools?

 

[jdh71]

What if I fail step 1 on first try and get >230 on the second try but don't have a step 2 score before interviews, would I still have a chance at top schools? what about mid tier schools?

many "top" programs have a "first-pass" policy and therefore won't interview you, BUT I think with a 230+ on the second try there are many other solid places that will bring you in for a look . . . their number one question (assuming the rest of your app is fine): "What the hell was the deal with Step 1 first time?" - you'll need a good answer that will allow them to feel comfortable, otherwise . . .

Just make sure you do enough interviews, and you'll find a spot.

 

[Whats_up_doc]

Hello guys. This is a really interesting thread and I couldn't seem to find an exact thread to answer my question. I am a 3rd year student in an LCME accredited institution in Puerto Rico and just got my Step 1 Score of 233/97. I was wondering how this will help me to match into a program of IM in Emory University, for example- or any other "top/middle" (I don't know if this is "top", or "middle", please shed some light). I have a publication and couple of extracurriculars (which I don't know how they weigh into the application). I had a couple of B's and A's during first and second year", as well. What are your reccomendations for my 3rd year and the application process in general. I will appreciate your response.

WUD

 

[dragonfly99]

I wouldn't pay a super huge amount of attention to the Step 1 cutoff scores bandied about for IM programs, such as the 230. I got interviews at some well known programs, and did residency at one, and only got 224 on Step 1. My step 2 was 240's though...although they wouldn't have had that by the time of offering interviews. I also had some research that was pretty good, went to a well known school and had a lot of leadership stuff on my application. My LOR's were not from anyone famous. I do think the Step 2 being higher can help if the step 1 is just OK. If you really, really want an interview somewhere and don't get it, but think you are reasonably competitive (not just including step score(s) but other things as well) you can always call and ask for the interview or better yet, get a faculty member from your school to intervene. At the worst they can say no, and you haven't lost anything. I'm not saying that this will get you into MGH or Hopkins with 210 step 1 and middle of your class at some random med school, but I'm just saying that having or not having the 230 magic number is unlikely to break or make your career in IM. It's a different situation in IM, vs. for stuff like derm and ortho, where they have to find reasons to cull/throw out applications.

For the person from Puerto Rico and the 233 step score, congrats on that. That's an excellent Step 1. I would think you'd have a good shot at interviewing at Emory. You should also consider placed in Texas, like UT Southwestern and Baylor, and Florida and probably Vanderbilt. Think of any placed in the South or Southeast that you like. I assume you speak Spanish well, which can be a good selling point for you...they won't let you in because of that by itself, but it can definitely be helpful with the Spanish speaking patients.

 

[Whats_up_doc]

I wouldn't pay a super huge amount of attention to the Step 1 cutoff scores bandied about for IM programs, such as the 230. I got interviews at some well known programs, and did residency at one, and only got 224 on Step 1. My step 2 was 240's though...although they wouldn't have had that by the time of offering interviews. I also had some research that was pretty good, went to a well known school and had a lot of leadership stuff on my application. My LOR's were not from anyone famous. I do think the Step 2 being higher can help if the step 1 is just OK. If you really, really want an interview somewhere and don't get it, but think you are reasonably competitive (not just including step score(s) but other things as well) you can always call and ask for the interview or better yet, get a faculty member from your school to intervene. At the worst they can say no, and you haven't lost anything. I'm not saying that this will get you into MGH or Hopkins with 210 step 1 and middle of your class at some random med school, but I'm just saying that having or not having the 230 magic number is unlikely to break or make your career in IM. It's a different situation in IM, vs. for stuff like derm and ortho, where they have to find reasons to cull/throw out applications.

For the person from Puerto Rico and the 233 step score, congrats on that. That's an excellent Step 1. I would think you'd have a good shot at interviewing at Emory. You should also consider placed in Texas, like UT Southwestern and Baylor, and Florida and probably Vanderbilt. Think of any placed in the South or Southeast that you like. I assume you speak Spanish well, which can be a good selling point for you...they won't let you in because of that by itself, but it can definitely be helpful with the Spanish speaking patients.

I appreciate your response. The thing is that I am looking for a good school in Atlanta because I am planning in establishing myself there - family, fiance, etc ( or any close place). However, I have to keep an open mind for other schools. I have also heard that Duke is a great IM place. For me it is not about names but about a great program( many hospitals, many patients, research, academics,etc.).Even though I have an open mind, I am inclined towards a GI specialty (3rd year will let me know). I am also waiting for my girlfriend's Step 1 score to decide if we do couple's match. If anyone want to contribute more I will be very thankful.

If you study at Emory, please PM me . I am interested in knowing about the 1 month rotations at your institutions and any other tips. Thank you. WUD

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I appreciate your response. The thing is that I am looking for a good school in Atlanta because I am planning in establishing myself there - family, fiance, etc ( or any close place). However, I have to keep an open mind for other schools. I have also heard that Duke is a great IM place. For me it is not about names but about a great program( many hospitals, many patients, research, academics,etc.).Even though I have an open mind, I am inclined towards a GI specialty (3rd year will let me know). I am also waiting for my girlfriend's Step 1 score to decide if we do couple's match. If anyone want to contribute more I will be very thankful.

If you study at Emory, please PM me . I am interested in knowing about the 1 month rotations at your institutions and any other tips. Thank you. WUD

It is not bad to stay in the region - Emory, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc.

Duke is a more renowned academic place. It will most likely help you secure a (highly coveted and competitive) GI fellowship more easily than Emory or Vanderbilt, but the latter two are both superb places. Emory likely has a more diverse and larger patient population and also great links to ID research via the CDC, if you ever become interested in that field. My sense is that Duke is more of a referral center from outside its region than is Emory.

 

[dragonfly99]

GI is the hardest IM specialty to get right now...I would suggest trying to do some GI research during 4th year of medical school. This becomes important in terms of having stuff to put on your resume, and also networking. Try to find out which programs on your list are better known for GI...it's not just the overall prestige of a hospital/med center, but the prestige of faculty in a given academic division of interest that helps with getting fellowship for you.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

GI is the hardest IM specialty to get right now...I would suggest trying to do some GI research during 4th year of medical school. This becomes important in terms of having stuff to put on your resume, and also networking. Try to find out which programs on your list are better known for GI...it's not just the overall prestige of a hospital/med center, but the prestige of faculty in a given academic division of interest that helps with getting fellowship for you.

True. Fellowship reputations are not always correlated to residency reputations. Cleveland Clinic and Mayo Clinic have outstanding fellowships in several fields, but the general IM reputation (CC in particular, but Mayo in a way also) lags a bit behind.

 

[wjm]

Hey guys I've heard that University of Michigan actually does follow the 230+ step 1 rule. Does anyone know if this is true? Their website says that they don't have a cut off but I've heard different from many people.

 

[dragonfly99]

mercapto,
you are right but that is not what I meant.
There are certain places that are known for cardiology, for example (I'd say Duke and WashU for example) others for hem/onc (Vanderbilt, whichever New York residency that's affiliated with Sloan Kettering, etc.). It's the faculty member's reputations, and not just the overall rep. of the residency, that ends up mattering. Of course, all the places above have high overall reputations as well...but some not as well known in GI (Vanderbilt isn't, I don't think). I wouldn't go to Cleveland Clinic residency just to get a LOR from a famous cardiologist if I had the option to go some place more generally "academic" like Emory or Vanderbilt. Not that Cleveland Clinic isn't good, but as mercapto said, the IM residency isn't considered up there with some of the others.

 

[BlackNDecker]

True. Fellowship reputations are not always correlated to residency reputations. Mayo Clinic has outstanding fellowships in several fields, but the general IM reputation (...Mayo in a way also) lags a bit behind.

...intentionally removed the CC as I have no first hand experience with this program.

The mean step 1 score of the intern class at Mayo was a 244 this year. As a residency, there has been 100% matching over the past several years into Cards, GI, and Heme/Onc. Specifically in regards to this thread: 5/5 (2009), 4/4 (2008), and 8/8 (2007) into GI fellowships. The numbers are even more impressive for Cardiology.

Looks pretty elite to me.

 

[BlackNDecker]

What hasn't been mentioned...is the importance of AOA. With the inflation of Step I scores, and often lack of Step 2 on transcripts, this is often the deal breaker for interview invites.

I don't have numbers (i.e. I'm too lazy to look), but would guess there are fewer AOA applicants than those with > 230 on Step 1. Only the top 1/6 of the class can be selected to AOA...whereas 100% of the class could make >230 on Step 1 if so motivated.

In all likelihood, both are used...so if you wanna be a champ have both on your transcript.

 

[jdh71]

...intentionally removed the CC as I have no first hand experience with this program.

The mean step 1 score of the intern class at Mayo was a 244 this year. As a residency, there has been 100% matching over the past several years into Cards, GI, and Heme/Onc. Specifically in regards to this thread: 5/5 (2009), 4/4 (2008), and 8/8 (2007) into GI fellowships. The numbers are even more impressive for Cardiology.

Looks pretty elite to me.

It's ok BnD we all know you're "special"

 

[BlackNDecker]

Gotta defend the fort...

...besides, his comment pretty much came out of nowhere.

 

[dragonfly99]

It definitely doesn't hurt to be AOA, but I don't want people to get the impression that one HAS to be AOA to get into one of the pickier IM programs. Even at those type programs, there are probably more folks who were NOT AOA than who were. Unless maybe you're talking about UCSF, Hopkins, a couple of others. A lot of the AOA students end up in other specialties (derm, ortho, rads)...there just aren't a ton of AOA students running around applying for IM. Also, residencies know that the difficulty of getting into AOA is going to vary somewhat according to what med school you attended...i.e. AOA at Hopkins is going to be harder to get than AOA at most other places. Some med schools have done away with AOA as well, so it's not a possiblity for all students. It's definitely true that some PD's like to brag about the number of AOA interns that they get though...that was definitely true @my IM program.