Strategy for applicants with weak GPA

[MurumErumpendum]

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I've browsed the threads here and looked at the MD/PhD admissions stats, but was still wondering what people recommend here for the best strategy for applying with a low GPA (2.6/2.8 BCPM/Non-BCPM). I know that overall chances are very low, but I am going to apply to non-MSTP programs as well and some MD schools. Given years of research, 2 publications in a difficult bench research field (1 first author, another 3 first author publications getting ready to be submitted), numerous posters and presentations, and very strong PI LORs, do the adcoms here think that I will have a shot or is there an automatic GPA cutoff for below 3.0? Non-URM, male, disadvantaged. No MCAT or GRE yet, but I am aware that the scores must be high to compensate for the GPA. I was also thinking that MD/PhD programs might give my application a bit more consideration than MD schools due to the extensive research, but I am not sure if this is indeed the case. If it is not the case, then perhaps to would make sense to apply to limited number of MD/PhD programs since the application makes the consideration for MD rather late and disadvantageous at many schools, and concentrate on more MD programs.

Also wondering whether for someone in my situation it is best to apply to several MD schools as well hoping to get in somewhere or if it's better to start PhD and then apply for MD at the same school one year after starting the PhD.

Thanks.

 

[StIGMA]

In 2007, the average GPA/MCAT of MD/PhD applicants who had no acceptances was 3.68/32.7. This represented 35% of total applicants. Another ~35% of applicants received only one acceptance offer with an average GPA of 3.74 and MCAT of 34. The MCAT average now are even higher due to implementation of the computerized test allowing more frequent re-takes. See here.

A program will not purposefully overlook your GPA because you have decent research experiences. To have any chance, you need to perform superbly on the MCAT, and even with a superb MCAT score, you are likely to still not end up with an acceptance. You must be willing to apply to virtually every program that has an established MD/PhD program (among which are programs that are not very desirable).

Medical schools prefer good GPAs because they are a way to measure consistency - and not maintaining consistently above-average grades is thus a major red flag. How would you do when the workload is even more intense and lasts 7-9+ years?

If you are set on medical school, you should consider grade replacement for the DO schools. It is highly unlikely that you will evoke interest in any MD/PhD programs (although an exceptional MCAT may garner some interest). You should make additional backup plans in case your MCAT is not superb (read: 38+), including considering taking a year to re-take classes to improve your GPA for DO programs (because you are not competitive for MD programs). You could apply to DO and MD programs during the same application cycle.

Lastly, you cannot join an MD program after you start a PhD program at a school. This pathway does not occur. If you start a PhD program, expect to drop out or finish it before enrolling in an MD program (in which case your GPA issue still needs to be resolved).

 

[zippyziggy]

how weak do you consider a weak GPA for MD/PhD? 😵

 

[StIGMA]

how weak do you consider a weak GPA for MD/PhD? 😵

Per the FAQ, under 3.6 is less than ideal. I consider <3.4 weak.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

I've browsed the threads here and looked at the MD/PhD admissions stats, but was still wondering what people recommend here for the best strategy for applying with a low GPA (2.6/2.8 BCPM/Non-BCPM). I know that overall chances are very low, but I am going to apply to non-MSTP programs as well and some MD schools. Given years of research, 2 publications in a difficult bench research field (1 first author, another 3 first author publications getting ready to be submitted), numerous posters and presentations, and very strong PI LORs, do the adcoms here think that I will have a shot or is there an automatic GPA cutoff for below 3.0? Non-URM, male, disadvantaged. No MCAT or GRE yet, but I am aware that the scores must be high to compensate for the GPA. I was also thinking that MD/PhD programs might give my application a bit more consideration than MD schools due to the extensive research, but I am not sure if this is indeed the case. If it is not the case, then perhaps to would make sense to apply to limited number of MD/PhD programs since the application makes the consideration for MD rather late and disadvantageous at many schools, and concentrate on more MD programs.

Also wondering whether for someone in my situation it is best to apply to several MD schools as well hoping to get in somewhere or if it's better to start PhD and then apply for MD at the same school one year after starting the PhD.

Thanks.

Without an MCAT score, it's difficult to provide a strategy. If you have an exceptional MCAT score, that might help offset your GPA, but like StIGMA posted, it's unlikely that many MD/PhD programs will show interest.

 

[MurumErumpendum]

Thanks for the help. I understand and my main concern is automatic cutoffs because it's a lot of money to apply somewhere if the application will not be even looked at. I don't mind at all if a school says upfront not to apply if GPA is below X. That would help a lot of us save time and money. Unfortunately, it's probably a bit of a business practice. I am going to call every program before applying and ask them point blank if they suggest that I not apply (after I have my MCAT scores). Of course, the concern is still there whether they'll be honest. I hope the process will become more transparent in the future and we'll have a list right here on SDN.

Part of my strategy is to try my absolute best and try to get into the school where I'm doing my research. My work is more known here and even though there is no MSTP, the MD/PhD program is free and includes a stipend for the entire PhD and at least the first two years of medschool.

When I was referring to doing PhD first, I was talking about the programs that allow students to convert from PhD to MD/PhD. Many programs allow this. But I guess I can't find out from this forum whether I will have a good chance of getting into MD/PhD after strong 1-2years of PhD. That was my question. At this point there is no way to really change my ugrad GPA - I have too many credits. I am considering taking about 16 units of stats courses that will help my research before the next application cycle opens, but that's about it. My past failures are almost exclusively in advanced math and physics courses and I wouldn't expect to get an A with a retake even after a lot of work.

Finally, the FAQs of this forum indicated that DO/PhD programs are not funded at all and will cost a lot. As such, I really can't consider them and would rather do MD alone (or DO, if I must). It's just that after so much research and having close to a PhD knowledge, I feel terrible about the possibility of not having the opportunity to do MD/PhD.

I was looking at the importance of NIH funding rankings for MD/PhD programs, but it also seems to me that if a person is definitely also going to practice medicine and since pretty much most medschools are equivalent, a mudphud from an average program shouldn't really hold someone back in their career. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Neuronix]

There's weak, and then there's awful. Your overall GPA is about 2.7? That's not compatible with MD, let alone MD/PhD. Nobody is going to let you transfer from PhD to MD/PhD. It's extremely rare to begin with. The first question they're going to ask is whether they would have considered you for MD/PhD to begin with. With that GPA, no way. Not even a 40 MCAT score is going to save you at this point.

If you're serious about medical school, re-taking many courses with grade replacement to try for DO programs would be your best shot. This could be done through continuing education at your undergrad or a SMP. You need to get all As from this point forward.

 

[Solara]

There's weak, and then there's awful. Your overall GPA is about 2.7? That's not compatible with MD, let alone MD/PhD. Nobody is going to let you transfer from PhD to MD/PhD. It's extremely rare to begin with. The first question they're going to ask is whether they would have considered you for MD/PhD to begin with. With that GPA, no way. Not even a 40 MCAT score is going to save you at this point.

If you're serious about medical school, re-taking many courses with grade replacement to try for DO programs would be your best shot. This could be done through continuing education at your undergrad or a SMP. You need to get all As from this point forward.

If s/he really wants to get an MD/PhD, how does the option of getting a PhD first, and then applying to medical school sound? B/c I agree, that GPA is extremely low--s/he would be screened out of many programs. I imagine having a PhD certainly makes you more competitive for med school than would having a masters.

Though if medicine is the end goal, then getting a PhD to be more competitive for med school may not make sense. But if research is his/her true love, then maybe it might be better to get the PhD first (but even getting into these programs with that GPA wouldn't be easy, though certainly not as difficult as it would be with med school).

 

[MurumErumpendum]

I guess in the end we can't really know what will happen without applying. The matriculation GPA does go as low as 2.6 in the AMCAS MD/PhD stats, which means that at least some programs likely do not disregard an applicant based on GPA alone. If anyone knows the programs with a strict cutoff, I'd appreciate any information about this.

I just wanted to clarify something: from what I know about grad schools, they do not calculate the GPA strictly like MD schools do and my "regular" GPA would apply, which is about 3.2. And if a heavier emphasis is placed on the last two years at a full degree university, my transcript shows a 3.4 (3.5 in my major). My education has been non-standard where I screwed up at a community college for several years, took a ~4 year break working, and only then transferred to a good university and got my degree in 2 years. At least my school mudphud representative mentioned to me that matters a lot and my last two years are the most important, so I should have a shot with good test scores. Don't know how other programs handle a situation like this. It is my understanding though that if I apply to PhD programs only, I should be able to get into even some competitive programs. I was told I just need a solid GRE, which I will be taking since my local program requires it.

 

[Neuronix]

If s/he really wants to get an MD/PhD, how does the option of getting a PhD first, and then applying to medical school sound? B/c I agree, that GPA is extremely low--s/he would be screened out of many programs. I imagine having a PhD certainly makes you more competitive for med school than would having a masters.

PhD means little for med school admissions. Everyone knows the PhD GPAs are inflated, and the courses are easy. Even with a 4.0, there tends not to be enough classes to significantly increase a poor undergraduate GPA to make a cumulative GPA that is reasonable.

Though if medicine is the end goal, then getting a PhD to be more competitive for med school may not make sense.

Indeed. Because you need to finish the PhD before you have a chance to apply to med school. If you're heart is not in the graduate school work, you will quit before finishing because grad school often sucks.

But if research is his/her true love, then maybe it might be better to get the PhD first (but even getting into these programs with that GPA wouldn't be easy, though certainly not as difficult as it would be with med school).

Getting into biomedical PhD programs is much easier. They get you as cheap/free labor for 5+ years, then send you off to a non-existent job market.

And if a heavier emphasis is placed on the last two years at a full degree university, my transcript shows a 3.4 (3.5 in my major).

I don't know what you mean by this. This is still low by MD/PhD standards, and fairly low by MD standards. You need to be getting As in everything.

 

[MurumErumpendum]

I don't know what you mean by this. This is still low by MD/PhD standards, and fairly low by MD standards. You need to be getting As in everything.

I mean that MD schools are unique in counting every single grade towards the GPA (repeats), but grad schools don't do this as far as I'm aware. This is why my AMCAS GPA is abysmal (at least per my calculations), but my transcript GPA is not.

I want to thank everyone who sent me a private message. If anyone prefers to discuss this privately, please feel free to send me a PM. Even after this thread gets old and forgotten, I will still be checking my PMs. I won't be applying until 2014. It would be nice to hear from others in a similar situation and what they did or how successful/unsuccessful they were.

The crux of the issue here is to have some type of an unofficial mudphud program list that screen applicants based on one number, be it GPA or MCAT or GRE. Any information shared here will be helpful to all of us. There aren't many students pursuing this path, so it's harder to come by a lot of varied advice on SDN.

 

[Neuronix]

The crux of the issue here is to have some type of an unofficial mudphud program list that screen applicants based on one number, be it GPA or MCAT or GRE.

It's not going to happen. Programs don't give out that information.

 

[Maebea]

Programs will likely tell you nothing is impossible because most have taken a student or two with a low GPA or MCAT at one time or another; however your chances are very small. Of all the students accepted to our program, only 0.5% had a GPA below 3.0. More specifically, in the past 20 years, only two admitted indivduals matching your demographic characteristics had BCMP GPA's below 3.5. To have a prayer, you will need to nail the MCAT (>37). Even with that, it will be highly unlikely. You are correct that your best chance will be at your current institution. Beyond that, if your PI is MD-PhD she can lobby her old program on your behalf. That may help if she was a great student and is willing to put her reputation on the line for you.

 

[Maebea]

The crux of the issue here is to have some type of an unofficial mudphud program list that screen applicants based on one number, be it GPA or MCAT or GRE. Any information shared here will be helpful to all of us. There aren't many students pursuing this path, so it's harder to come by a lot of varied advice on SDN.

No MD-PhD programs screen an applicant based solely on one number, unless that number is an 18 on the MCAT or a 2.0 GPA. Numbers do matter, but they are just part of the picture. If you fall two sd's below the mean on a particular number, you have to realize that many of the other applicants not only have a much better number, but also are equivalent or stronger than you by other criteria (e.g., research productivity). The 2.6 BCMP is a risk factor. All else being equal, programs will pass on your application in favor of an applicant that presents a lower risk profile.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

While schools rarely release info about how they screen, what information is available suggests that the screens are usually at or above a 3.0 GPA, even with PhD programs.

While it is true that MD/PhD programs do apparently take applicants with less than a 3.0 GPA on occasion judging by the schools that release their stats, it's surely the case that those types of accepted applicants are A) extremely rare, and B) had an otherwise flawless application with an incredible hook. From what you've said, you don't that have that incredible hook, unless that first author pub of yours is in Nature/Cell/Science.

As others have said, it looks pretty hopeless for you on the MD side of things, especially MD/PhD. You're thinking of competing in an admissions process where the range of GPA is really 3.5 to 4.0, not 1.0 to 4.0. As others have said, your best bet is DO programs. If you have a 3.2 with grade replacement and can kill the MCAT by DO standards (30+), you have a shot. You won't be getting a PhD, but at least you'll be a physician. You could do a PhD program instead, but the market for PhDs is terrible and getting worse, and the schools you could get into with a 2.7 GPA aren't likely to do much for your odds of finding a tenure track gig.

 

[zippyziggy]

you could also look into a DO/PhD. there are several prominent physician-investigators that have gone that route.

 

[deleted566604]

Start re-taking classes. Weave some intelligent sounding nonsense about determination and improvement in your personal statement. Study until your eyes bleed for the MCAT.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I'm sorry to say this, but I just don't see it happening with your dismal GPA. Even more concerning is the BCMP GPA, which is worse than the overall.

The only strategy that *might* work would be to take 2-3 years of UG science courses and then have them replace or eliminate the older courses. Even if your institution would do that, you'd have to check with AMCAS to see if they construct your GPA from all attempts or just from the updated transcript. If all attempts, it's pretty futile to waste time and money on this replacement strategy.

Even doing a supplemental masters with coursework that goes into UG GPA would probably not help much, since it's diluted by ~4 years of bad science grades.

Needless to say, if after 2-3 years you managed to raise your GPA to a 3.5 (which seems to be the minimum of what's accepted by MD-PhD/MSTP programs, and was in fact my own GPA), then you have to get a 40+ score on the MCAT.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I mean that MD schools are unique in counting every single grade towards the GPA (repeats), but grad schools don't do this as far as I'm aware. This is why my AMCAS GPA is abysmal (at least per my calculations), but my transcript GPA is not.

I just read this. I would set my professional goals elsewhere. I think your chances at MD or MD/PhD are nil. You have a chance with the PhD if you get into a good grad school, but even when you're done your chances at MD are no better, since the UG GPA matters to them more than the graduate GPA.