Stressing over failed boards

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FailureForever2018

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Hi all. So the reality of my situation has just hit me as applications have gone underway. My story is awful and I need advice on where to go from here.

I'm the lowest ranked DO student at a not so well-liked school. Last year I took Step 1 and failed (186). I took Level 1 and failed (397). I was taken off my rotations for a month and retook Level 1 and passed (483), but didn't retake Step 1, because I thought I'd just fail it again. Fast forward to now. Just got back my PE and failed the Data Gathering section. No problem I thought, I'll retake it asap and now I'm scheduled for retaking it at the end of August. One of my professors suggested that I take Step 2 in order to show residencies that my failure on Step 1 was a fluke. Just took it yesterday and I felt crushed. For reference my UWSA Scores were 193 two weeks before and 177 today, a day after the exam. I'm just hoping the score today was me just being exhausted or defeated from yesterday. I'm scheduled to take Level 2 CE at the end of next week.

In sum:
Lowest ranked student at my school
Failed Step 1
483 Level 1, but second pass
Failed PE
Step 2 feels like a fail, really bad UWSA scores to justify that
Yet to take Level 2 CE

The one bright side is that I'm applying psychiatry which isn't the most competitive specialty, but I'm aware it's becoming more competitive. My question is, what I do now with residency applications underway? Should I just give up on ACGME programs entirely, and put all my eggs in AOA? I can't imagine any MD programs liking me when they see my failures. Are the failures something I need to address in my application or should I just let the number speak for themselves? Can I avoid reporting any of my scores? Any help would be appreciated. I'm feeling lost and all of this stressing and worrying isn't going to bode well for me next week. I'm already feeling more burned out than ever today.
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Take a deep breath.
Take it one step at a time.

My recommendation is to first move your CE back and give yourself more time to study for that. After you pass your CE then you can worry about residencies.
 
I am not sure why they recommended you to take step2... and also why did you take it after getting 193 on UWSA, which is 16 point below passing score. That professor at your school is not giving you good advice. You are probably NOT going to match psych with your record. Do NOT take the USMLE again if you fail step2. Concentrate in passing CE/PE and apply FM and pathology...


One can make a case that psych is more competitive than IM, Neuro, or even Anesthesia right now.
 
Last edited:
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FailureForever2018 said:
The one bright side is that I'm applying psychiatry which isn't the most competitive specialty, but I'm aware it's becoming more competitive.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but you are not going to be matching psychiatry. This is not 2010. It has become rather competitive with people in the 220+ range being rejected.

If I were you, I'd accept my loss and apply exclusively to family medicine or community IM programs in undesirable locations. I think there's a solid chance you will go unmatched given 2 board failures. If you fail CE, I would say you're almost guaranteed to not match.

This is a very dire situation and would strongly recommend that you line up several FM auditions at places that have taken people with board failures. Considering you took step 2 with practice scores in the fail range, you have poor judgment and need to listen to people telling you that you need to change the gameplan
 
W19 said:
I am not sure why they recommended to take step2... and also why did you take it after getting 193 on UWSA, which is 16 point below passing score. That professor at your school is not giving you good advice. You are probably NOT going to match psych with your record. Do NOT take the USMLE again if you fail step2. Concentrate in passing CE/PE and apply FM and pathology...

One can make the case that psych is more competitive than IM, Neuro, or even Anesthesia right now.
Click to expand...
I would go as far as saying that it's not "make a case" but rather a straight up fact that it is more competitive.
 
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W19 said:
@AlbinoHawk DO

Even community IM will be an uphill battle IMO. FM is 50/50 and path might be where OP has his/her best shot...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I could see that being the case as well, but I was thinking just on volume of programs in undesirable locations that OP might get lucky. I hadn't thought about path until you mentioned it, so I'll agree that's another specialty to look into
 
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In addition to what the other posters have said, I urge you to go to your COM Dean or Dean of Student Affairs and rat out the professor or faculty member that recommended you to take Step 2. He/She has absolutely no business giving advice to students and the administration should know about this and tell him/her to shut up and not give advice to students anymore.
 
After reading this thread...
If you fail step 1, are you doomed to FM/IM in undesirable places?
 
FailureForever2018 said:
Hi all. So the reality of my situation has just hit me as applications have gone underway. My story is awful and I need advice on where to go from here.

I'm the lowest ranked DO student at a not so well-liked school. Last year I took Step 1 and failed (186). I took Level 1 and failed (397). I was taken off my rotations for a month and retook Level 1 and passed (483), but didn't retake Step 1, because I thought I'd just fail it again. Fast forward to now. Just got back my PE and failed the Data Gathering section. No problem I thought, I'll retake it asap and now I'm scheduled for retaking it at the end of August. One of my professors suggested that I take Step 2 in order to show residencies that my failure on Step 1 was a fluke. Just took it yesterday and I felt crushed. For reference my UWSA Scores were 193 two weeks before and 177 today, a day after the exam. I'm just hoping the score today was me just being exhausted or defeated from yesterday. I'm scheduled to take Level 2 CE at the end of next week.

In sum:
Lowest ranked student at my school
Failed Step 1
483 Level 1, but second pass
Failed PE
Step 2 feels like a fail, really bad UWSA scores to justify that
Yet to take Level 2 CE

The one bright side is that I'm applying psychiatry which isn't the most competitive specialty, but I'm aware it's becoming more competitive. My question is, what I do now with residency applications underway? Should I just give up on ACGME programs entirely, and put all my eggs in AOA? I can't imagine any MD programs liking me when they see my failures. Are the failures something I need to address in my application or should I just let the number speak for themselves? Can I avoid reporting any of my scores? Any help would be appreciated. I'm feeling lost and all of this stressing and worrying isn't going to bode well for me next week. I'm already feeling more burned out than ever today.
Click to expand...

Take a deep breath. Your goal right now is passing CE and PE. You have some pretty huge red flags, namely 2 board failures. I too am surprised that you would decide to take Step 2 after getting <200 on UWSAs. This was a poor choice. You can't afford any more of those.

You should postpone CE, you need more time, maybe even dedicated time. You need to be getting >450 if not 500 on the COMSAEs leading up to it, and you need to address whatever it is preventing you from doing well on these exams. It worries me that you failed the data gathering section on the PE in the setting of doing this poorly on board exams. What are your rotations like? Are you getting good evals? Is this a test anxiety issue or is it a knowledge deficit? Either way it needs to be addressed now, before you finish the COMLEX and maybe even way before you get put in charge of making patient care decisions. On top of that, you really need to pass these exams, because this will make the difference between finishing medical school and not doing so.

You also badly need a backup. Psychiatry is more competitive than it once was. Sure some people with poor scores still match, but you have some pretty major red flags and you can't be picky. You need to apply to FM/IM as well, and they need to be non-competitive programs. If you do well on rotations, then try to get more at hospitals with residency programs so that you can have a bit of an edge. You need anything that will help you secure any residency position.

gensurghopeful said:
After reading this thread...
If you fail step 1, are you doomed to FM/IM in undesirable places?
Click to expand...

I'd say that failing both Level 1 and Level 2 PE and Step 1 and (possibly) Step 2 CK are pretty big redflags. I'd be very worried about this person passing boards after residency. Only failing step 1 doesn't necessarily doom you to FM/IM in undesirable places.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
What about Neurology?

Some places will kill to have a US grad in their program
Click to expand...
There is no place killing to have a DO graduate. Many neurology programs are heavy FMG because that's what they want. You'd be surprised how many FMG attending and PD there are that look out for their own, and most FMG matched in neurology come in with 235+.
 
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gensurghopeful said:
After reading this thread...
If you fail step 1, are you doomed to FM/IM in undesirable places?
Click to expand...

I’d go so far to say if you fail Step 1 you should hope for community IM or FM in places that some consider “undesirable”. Because even with one failure and being a DO you aren’t guaranteed that.

With 3 (or more) exam failures...I’m not even sure. I don’t know how one could convince a PD that they will not fail their specialty board exams.

But alas, what do I know.
 
DrWhozits said:
I’d go so far to say if you fail Step 1 you should hope for community IM or FM in places that some consider “undesirable”. Because even with one failure and being a DO you aren’t guaranteed that.

With 3 (or more) exam failures...I’m not even sure. I don’t know how one could convince a PD that they will not fail their specialty board exams.

But alas, what do I know.
Click to expand...
What the difference between community IM and simply IM?
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
There is no place killing to have a DO graduate. Many neurology programs are heavy FMG because that's what they want. You'd be surprised how many FMG attending and PD there are that look out for their own, and most FMG matched in neurology come in with 235+.
Click to expand...
Hate that though. Being a DO should have much more pull than being an MD from a carribean school.
 
gensurghopeful said:
Hate that though. Being a DO should have much more pull than being an MD from a carribean school.
Click to expand...
I believe you are confusing IMG for FMG. A Caribbean graduate from the U.S. is an IMG. An Indian, Chinese or European etc. graduate from India, China, Europe etc. is an FMG. As mentioned above, in non-coastal areas in particular, FMGs fill positions such as neurology and have very good Steps.
 
gensurghopeful said:
What the difference between community IM and simply IM?
Click to expand...

So community IM vs academic IM.

Academic IM is generally “University of” wherever. This doesn’t necessarily matter to everyone, but varying levels of prestige are associated with academic programs. More importantly, research opportunities and more well-known letter writers are there.

All of this only matters if you want to do fellowship afterwards. In this particular case, it’s probably important to just focus on getting a residency and getting through.
 
ChicagoBear said:
I believe you are confusing IMG for FMG. A Caribbean graduate from the U.S. is an IMG. An Indian, Chinese or European etc. graduate from India, China, Europe etc. is an FMG. As mentioned above, in non-coastal areas in particular, FMGs fill positions such as neurology and have very good Steps.
Click to expand...
Yes my mistake. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Hi all. Just updating my situation. Ended up passing Level 2 (444) and Step 2 (219). Pitiful scores, but I'm happy to not have anymore board failures for the time being. Just took my PE a couple weeks back and feel better about it than the first time, but it's the PE so I can't really say for sure.

I've messaged a few of you for some input and I'm thankful for all the honest advice. I'll see how far I can get trying for psych but it's more about seeing what I can get if there's anything out there. I'll be applying to a lot of backups (not that I can even call them 'backups'), with the hope of maybe going into preventive or occupational medicine later on. I was wondering if anyone has input on how TRIs will be with the upcoming merger. If I'm a DO in a TRI from 2019-2020, assuming it won't close down in 2020, will it be considered an ACGME accredited program by the time I apply for Prev or OccMed in the 2019-2020 ERAS season? Having at least a PGY-1 in an ACGME accredited residency seems to be a major requirement for all of these programs and I'm wondering if my timing won't be off and I might end up in a TRI that will literally lead me into a dead end. I've read what I can on the merger but still haven't found a straight answer on this scenario.
 
I’m in a similar situation. I scored a 445 on level 1 (no fails) and a 198 on step 1 (no fails). I know what you’re all thinking wtf?! But hear me out. My practice comsaes were all >550 my uwsa1 was a 210 and uwsa2 225 2 weeks out. So I thought I was good, you know? But now I feel like I’m f*****. My interest are psych, neuro, EM and pm &r. Right now I’m just trying to impress as many of my attendings as I can and not let my poor tests performance get at me, do my best on level 2/step 2 and try to get a couple of HP.

Does anyone think I have shots at the specialties I listed? Thanks
 
People recommending Path? Is path really that noncompetitive nowadays?
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
There is no place killing to have a DO graduate. Many neurology programs are heavy FMG because that's what they want. You'd be surprised how many FMG attending and PD there are that look out for their own, and most FMG matched in neurology come in with 235+.
Click to expand...

So is neurology fairly competitive now for DO grads without any board failures?
 
Atom612 said:
So is neurology fairly competitive now for DO grads without any board failures?
Click to expand...
I think it depends on the program. The ones I’d be applying to aren’t super duper competitive and always have 2-3 DOs/year.
 
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