Student Loans

[Koffeekat]

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So, can we talk about student loans with everything that is happening right now? What is everyone doing or planning to do?

It sounds like most IBR plans are going to go away permanently. Most seem to think that PSLF will survive, but does that even matter if there are no IBR plans? Are people worried about their loans? Are people heading to school or back to school worried about taking how federal loans with everything being so up in the air?

 

[vampyrica]

Yup, right here 100%. If they removed Grad PLUS loans, I'm screwed. Granted the interest on them isn't great, but they qualify for forgiveness as opposed to private loans.

 

[_rae_]

There's been a lot of discussion in the rant thread and a couple of other places. Personally, I'm in it now, I can't be worried. I need loans to get through school and I am not dropping out because of future uncertainty. This is the way I see it: every few terms, income based gets changed or revamped. I am graduating in 2028, so by the time my loans kick in, there will be a new administration (hopefully lol). I feel worse for people graduating in the near future.

 

[DVM882029]

Terrified to start school with this adminstration in office, but I worked hard to get here. I'm going to my IS which is very cheap, and we are minimizing loans as much as possible after meeting with our SLP the other week. We'll meet with her again closer to matriculation. My husband and I have agreed that, worst case, we take out some amount of loans and pay them back while still in school (currently DINK, future SINK) if it looks like the repayment plans are being jacked up.

Message to the masses: Meet with a student loan planner now to help advise you going forward, ours gave us great strategy plans A and B and C.

 

[dvminmyfuture]

Terrified to start school with this adminstration in office, but I worked hard to get here. I'm going to my IS which is very cheap, and we are minimizing loans as much as possible after meeting with our SLP the other week. We'll meet with her again closer to matriculation. My husband and I have agreed that, worst case, we take out some amount of loans and pay them back while still in school (currently DINK, future SINK) if it looks like the repayment plans are being jacked up.

Message to the masses: Meet with a student loan planner now to help advise you going forward, ours gave us great strategy plans A and B and C.

Are you willing to share the planner you met with? How did you decide on them?

 

[vampyrica]

How do we find a SLP?

 

[battie]

It sounds like most IBR plans are going to go away permanently.

I question this as most high end professions require this. Even though human doctors make good money once they're attendings, they make trash money during their 4-7 years of residency and fellowship. They have equivalent loans and cannot really afford them for more than half a decade post-graduation. So I would bet there will be some sort of IBR.

Most seem to think that PSLF will survive

This is actually the one thing I would count on not surviving. Various factions of Congress have been trying to kill this off forever.

Are people worried about their loans?

Abso-****-alutely. I just told my husband I will have to start working an extra shift per month because I won't be able to switch my plan. I pay 1382.60/month, and will likely just round that off to 1400 if I get the extra shift. For reference, I'm currently on the 10 year standard repayment plan with ~105k in loans. We were fine, but husband went to SAHD/house husband status. Between the loss of income (~1600/month take home), adding him to my health insurance (~660/month), and having to compensate for loss retirement and such, it was a harder hit than anticipated. However, the income disparity is so wide, him picking up a part time job would require him to work 5 shifts for every one of mine. Doesn't make sense.

there will be a new administration (hopefully lol)

I mean. If there's not. We have bigger problems than student loans. I'm not a fan of going through a term limits crisis for an 80-something year old, regardless of party.

 

[vampyrica]

I mean. If there's not. We have bigger problems than student loans. I'm not a fan of going through a term limits crisis for an 80-something year old, regardless of party.

Off topic- but yeah, This. I lean left, and if any democrat president was like "teehee I didn't get 2 consecutive terms so I want to change that so I can get an extra term", I would protest it 100%.

 

[battie]

Off topic- but yeah, This. I lean left, and if any democrat president was like "teehee I didn't get 2 consecutive terms so I want to change that so I can get an extra term", I would protest it 100%.

And there's no way an amendment to change this will pass, seeing as it requires a super majority of states to pass it if I'm remembering correctly. There's no way 30 or 31 states ratify an amendment to get rid of presidential term limits.

 

[vampyrica]

And there's no way an amendment to change this will pass, seeing as it requires a super majority of states to pass it if I'm remembering correctly. There's no way 30 or 31 states ratify an amendment to get rid of presidential term limits.

Yup. 3/4 of the states would need to be in agreement. So 38/50 which is absolutely not happening. If we go based off the map from this last election, 21/50 states were blue. That's 9 less than they need, and I would bet money that at least 1-2 red states would oppose this too.

 

[JaynaAli]

The IBR plan was voted in by Congress, so that one would theoretically need congressional action to remove. Other ones like SAVE and PAYE were done by executive action, which is why those ones are the ones under fire, by saying a president didn’t have authority to pass those. I agree with Battie, I can see PSLF going away or being limited before ALL income based plans are removed. Too many Americans would be in default if all income based plans were abolished. And its not even just high cost/high paying fields struggling, just your everyday average people need income based loan repayment. If I was a student, now is definitely a time to go to the cheapest school you can, just in case of a worst case scenario. I do agree with Rae that historically many administrations have done new loan forgiveness programs. This one just seems especially chaotic, like with taking down all recertification options online this week. But really, who can predict what will happen. For pre-vets and incoming students options are to just keep going and deal with things as they come or abandon the plan. It’s not wrong to play things safe and change plans until things are more certain. But most people who are already in school or in repayment are just gonna have to buckle up, ride it out, hope it works out okay, and pivot as needed if things do change for the worst.

 

[DVM882029]

Are you willing to share the planner you met with? How did you decide on them?

How do we find a SLP?

We use Student Loan Planner (SLP) for my husband's loans, and we've had great experiences with SLP. We are also in Debt Free Vets on facebook. Also, a quick Google search brought me to this: Our Staff – TISLA. No experience with that personally, though.

All I can say is, people wouldn't take out a mortgage without speaking to a lender and breaking down the finances first (well, most people). We should be just as attentive to student loans.

 

[dvminmyfuture]

We use Student Loan Planner (SLP) for my husband's loans, and we've had great experiences with SLP. We are also in Debt Free Vets on facebook. Also, a quick Google search brought me to this: Our Staff – TISLA. No experience with that personally, though.

All I can say is, people wouldn't take out a mortgage without speaking to a lender and breaking down the finances first (well, most people). We should be just as attentive to student loans.

Perfect reply @DVM882029 - and so appreciated, thank you!

 

[pp9]

I agree with Battie, I can see PSLF going away or being limited before ALL income based plans are removed.

This is actually the one thing I would count on not surviving. Various factions of Congress have been trying to kill this off forever.

100%. I would not be surprised if it's gone by next year.

Are people worried about their loans?

People are very worried about their loans. Speaking for the zoo world, practically all vets are banking on PSLF specifically. My coworker
is up for forgiveness this November and she's freaking out that it's going to be gone by then.

I imagine those in academia, some research, shelters, etc. are feeling the same way. Outside of the vet world: teachers, medical professionals in certain workplaces, government roles, etc.

Also worth mentioning that the successful forgiveness rate is still only 1% of PSLF applicants. It's not like you wake up on the 10-year mark and you're magically forgiven. Which is an entirely different conversation...

Even though human doctors make good money once they're attendings, they make trash money during their 4-7 years of residency and fellowship. They have equivalent loans and cannot really afford them for more than half a decade post-graduation. So I would bet there will be some sort of IBR.

Idk, every time I venture over to MD/DO threads, there's another crop of people talking about how they paid their loans off before finishing residency. Requires a lot of work on their part, but it seems more common than I would have thought.

 

[battie]

Idk, every time I venture over to MD/DO threads, there's another crop of people talking about how they paid their loans off before finishing residency. Requires a lot of work on their part, but it seems more common than I would have thought.

I think there might be some selection bias of the people who hang out on SDN being a certain level of gunner, particularly on the human MD med side.

My cousin is in her first year of OBGYN residency and her salary comes out to something like $15/hr. She decided to not even make payments on her loans except to cover her interest. Tbf though, possible that other specialties make more than her in their residencies cause they're shiny and sexy in comparison.

 

[pp9]

I think there might be some selection bias of the people who hang out on SDN being a certain level of gunner, particularly on the human MD med side.

My cousin is in her first year of OBGYN residency and her salary comes out to something like $15/hr. She decided to not even make payments on her loans except to cover her interest. Tbf though, possible that other specialties make more than her in their residencies cause they're shiny and sexy in comparison.

Definitely true, but the fact that it's even possible is mind boggling to me. Even if a vet med resident picked up shifts at ERs/vax clinics as often as possible (considering the demands on some residents), they would probably just be able to be a little more comfortable with their housing/groceries, but not come close to paying off loans

 

[battie]

Definitely true, but the fact that it's even possible is mind boggling to me. Even if a vet med resident picked up shifts at ERs/vax clinics as often as possible (considering the demands on some residents), they would probably just be able to be a little more comfortable with their housing/groceries, but not come close to paying off loans

Agreed. 30-35k/yr for 3-6 years isnt even livable in some areas where these residents live.

 

[_rae_]

I mean. If there's not. We have bigger problems than student loans. I'm not a fan of going through a term limits crisis for an 80-something year old, regardless of party.

Oh, I know. When your 80-something year old is calling himself the king of America though, I get a little antsy about our checks and balances working as they should. He's already tried to overthrow an election once, this time he has even less to lose. It might seem a bit paranoid and I am open to that being the case, but I am not 100% certain that he will go quietly and that is scary to me. I'm more worried about that than I am about what loan repayment will look like come that time. Maybe that's just naive of me.

Agreed. 30-35k/yr for 3-6 years isnt even livable in some areas where these residents live.

Is this still standard? I checked out VIRMP out of curiosity since I worked at a hospital with rotating interns and I intend on going through match eventually. Out of 540 internships, 306 are paying $55k+. Half of those pay $75+. One of those internships is in my home state offering $80k, where my dad survived for years making $65k and supporting a family of five. Don't get me wrong, it's still not enough, especially compared to human medicine, but it is better than it used to be.

 

[JaynaAli]

Is this still standard?

I think things are definitely improving, though not as much as it should be. Private practice salaries are trending significantly higher than academia, and there’s also pretty large regional variations. There are more PP programs than academia, so that can skew averages. But the school I went to paid me 32-36,000/yr from 2016-2019, and in 2025 they’re advertising “at least 52,000/yr”. But it’s still vastly underpaid. I recently looked up rents in that city and the exact same unit I lived in now costs literally almost double per month than what I paid six years ago.

 

[_rae_]

I think things are definitely improving, though not as much as it should be. Private practice salaries are trending significantly higher than academia, and there’s also pretty large regional variations. There are more PP programs than academia, so that can skew averages. But the school I went to paid me 36,000/yr from 2016-2019, and in 2025 they’re advertising “at least 52,000/yr”. But it’s still vastly underpaid.

That's bonkers. Back in 2021 I made about the same as a technician yearly that our specialty intern did and I thought that was bad. We easily made $6-10k more.

 

[JaynaAli]

That's bonkers. Back in 2021 I made about the same as a technician yearly that our specialty intern did and I thought that was bad. We easily made $6-10k more.

My intern year (2015) I was paid 28,000 outside of Fort Collins, CO. My take home pay was under $1800/mo (closer to $1500 I think) and just my rent was over $1,000. The year after they raised that salary to 32k and the internist was like, that’s not a huge difference, but it was like over 10% more!

Edit: but really, salaries as a whole have also trended up across the field. My company started me out at $112,000/yr, and currently, newly boarded pathologists start out closer to $140,000/yr. I don’t have personal GP numbers to share, but what I see shared on social media now is very significantly higher than when I graduated.

 

[pp9]

My intern year (Tampa) was $33,000 for 2019-2020. It was very difficult to make ends meet and basically forced interns to pick up extra shifts as soon as we were able to. Interns for the same hospital are now up to $80k which is great.

Edit: but really, salaries as a whole have also trended up across the field. My company started me out at $112,000/yr, and currently, newly boarded pathologists start out closer to $140,000/yr. I don’t have personal GP numbers to share, but what I see shared on social media now is very significantly higher than when I graduated.

Exactly. It wasn't long ago that a 'good' starting salary for GP was like 65-80k. I myself got a 40k bump in my salary from 2020-2022 (ER with no production) based on market conditions/competition alone.

Now we're seeing GPs making 200k+ with production their first year out. I do really think we're going to see a correction of sorts at some point...caseloads are dropping off as we speak and we are flooding the country with new grads who are going to have to start fighting each other for jobs.

 

[battie]

It might seem a bit paranoid and I am open to that being the case, but I am not 100% certain that he will go quietly and that is scary to me.

The betting markets have a 1/3 chance he'll simply die in office of natural causes (completely excluding a potential successful assassination attempt). Homeboy ain't healthy and longevity drops off after 70 I think. Even if he tried to go for a third term, I wonder how many people would be willing to follow through on that (both politicians and voters).

Don't get me wrong; I hate all of this, though.

I do really think we're going to see a correction of sorts at some point...caseloads are dropping off as we speak and we are flooding the country with new grads who are going to have to start fighting each other for jobs.

And those with these huge salaries are also going to see their incomes drop between losing production and having their base salaries reduced.

 

[renacuaja]

considering human nursing school at this point. Could afford it without crazy loans. But even then it seems like they also project a national surplus of nurses by the time Id be projected to graduate 🙃. It sucks that there’s no easy answer for us that are vet-school bound amid this mess.

 

[DVM882029]

considering human nursing school at this point. Could afford it without crazy loans. But even then it seems like they also project a national surplus of nurses by the time Id be projected to graduate 🙃. It sucks that there’s no easy answer for us that are vet-school bound amid this mess.

Especially with the new threat from the Satsuma Stalin that universities who have DEI will be federally defunded. To be honest, I'm banking on any science-based career being helpful to leave the country if it comes down to it. Nursing would be a decent plan as you can be an RN in 2 years and jump ship vs the 4 years as a DVM.

 

[battie]

considering human nursing school at this point. Could afford it without crazy loans. But even then it seems like they also project a national surplus of nurses by the time Id be projected to graduate 🙃. It sucks that there’s no easy answer for us that are vet-school bound amid this mess.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have heavily considered ultrasonographer as a career. The prenatal ultrasonographers in my area make 50-60/hr. I make 75/hr. The difference in ROI is wild.

 

[pp9]

Satsuma Stalin

☠️

 

[DVM882029]

☠️

I'm running out of pseudo-alliterative color themed names for dictators but still making the effort.

 

[battie]

I'm running out of pseudo-alliterative color themed names for dictators but still making the effort.

It is amazingly appreciated and supported. Lol

 

[battie]

Gotta say. Satsuma is actually a pretty orange. I have some cantaloupe mandala scrubs that are almost this color.

 

[DVM882029]

Gotta say. Satsuma is actually a pretty orange. I have some cantaloupe mandala scrubs that are almost this color.

No insult to satsuma, mangoes, or cantaloupe was intended during this exercise against fascism.