Submit early or wait for a possible pub

[Coffee Machine]

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I'm applying MD/PhD this cycle and was wanting some input on a choice I need to make. My research mentor (whom I've been working with for two years now) wants to delay writing a letter of recommendation until I get my current project published (which he thinks could be as early as the middle of July). I, on the other hand, want to submit my application as early as possible (mid-June at the latest). If I pressed him, he would write the letter early. He thinks (rightly) that the letter would be much stronger with a publication. I've been working on this project for more than a year, but because of various setbacks, delays with partner labs, and because I studied abroad for the past four months, we're just barely off the ground with it.

So my question is, do you think it's worth it to apply later (mid-July, as mentioned above) in the hopes of getting a publication and a really strong letter of recommendation instead of applying early with a less-strong letter? My big reservation about all this is that it is in no way certain that this project will be wrapped up by mid-July. It could be sooner, it could be later. If things work, it could be done in a few weeks. Or, it could turn into even more of a quagmire and stretch out till the fall.

 

[Ombret]

Get him to write the letter now. Even if this paper were ready to submit today, it would be unlikely to be accepted for publication by July. The detriment to you from delaying your application far exceeds the marginal benefit of an accepted pub over a good project likely to turn into one.

If you do get the paper accepted, that gives you a great excuse to tickle your file at the places you've applied and remind them of your existence and interest.

 

[QofQuimica]

Agree with Ombret completely. Submit your AMCAS next week if you're ready, have your PI write the LOR now, and pump out those secondaries as fast as you can so that you can start interviewing. Since the paper won't be submitted before you apply, ask your PI to write in the LOR that he anticipates you publishing a paper on your work within the next few months. After the paper gets accepted, you will send an update about it to all of your schools, they will add it to your file, and you will have the benefit of applying early as well as the benefit of having the adcoms know that you published a paper. 🙂

 

[Inthecoldroom]

don't rely on things you can't control!

 

[StoicJosher]

Get him to write the letter now. Even if this paper were ready to submit today, it would be unlikely to be accepted for publication by July. The detriment to you from delaying your application far exceeds the marginal benefit of an accepted pub over a good project likely to turn into one.

If you do get the paper accepted, that gives you a great excuse to tickle your file at the places you've applied and remind them of your existence and interest.

That's basically what I am thinking about doing. I have three papers I am preparing now (one research paper and two review articles - all as a primary author) that might get published by the end of the July or at least accepted. My letter of recommendation will be strong no matter what and I have heard that publications don't have that much impact even though it may help.

But I do have a question. Should I list these papers as under preparation in the primary application and update them as accepted or under review in the secondaries? (I am pretty certain they will be accepted). I have heard that usually, it is not a good idea to list papers under preparation but is there a difference in the MD/PhD application?? Could this help or hurt or have no effect at all??

 

[Ombret]

XklusivGuy, this is probably the one time in your career when it would be appropriate to list papers in preparation; it will look a little earnest perhaps but will not be detrimental. So go ahead, I say. However, listing them will imply that they are really on terminal approach, so these had better be submitted by the time you interview. And I forget exactly how you enter pubs in AMCAS, but make sure there is no chance that you "accidentally" imply that these are already in print or even under review.

 

[SBR249]

Publications and authorship of any sort can be optionally mentioned in the significant research experiences essay on the AMCAS and also formally listed in the work/activities section either by themselves under the publications category or together with the research activity in its description.

 

[StoicJosher]

XklusivGuy, this is probably the one time in your career when it would be appropriate to list papers in preparation; it will look a little earnest perhaps but will not be detrimental. So go ahead, I say. However, listing them will imply that they are really on terminal approach, so these had better be submitted by the time you interview. And I forget exactly how you enter pubs in AMCAS, but make sure there is no chance that you "accidentally" imply that these are already in print or even under review.

They are on a terminal approach. I will submit the research article in at most three weeks (but I want to submit my AMCAS application as soon as possible). The other two papers have been requested from my lab (hence the review). One is due June 15th and the other on July 15th. Since they were requested and I am sure I haven't done a totally terrible job, there should be no problem with them being accepted. That's why I mentioned secondary apps. I hope atleast two will be accepted by the secondary and the last one by the time interviews roll in.

Thanks for the input. I was in the MD thread and talked to a couple of MDs and pretty much everyone told me not to put papers under preparation in AMCAS. Good to here the input from an MD/PhD.

 

[justgo]

I have listed a publication as "in submission" on my AMCAS as we submitted it 4 days ago. However, my past experience with publications (I have 3 other first author pubs and 2 "others") tells me that if I start interviewing in Sept/October it is likely this paper won't yet be accepted....maybe in January. It will likely need to go through one revision and we are submitting to a sort of competitive journal, where I think it WILL be accepted....but I had a paper take a year at a relatively less competitive journal (I wasn't first author on this one!), so it seems rather hopeful that an article submitted now would be accepted/indexed before a student starts interviewing.

Is this totally off base? My experience is publication takes a LOOONNNG time. But my personal opinion (and what I am doing) is just having my PI confirm that the paper was submitted in his letter of rec.

Cool?

 

[Ombret]

justgo, I agree with your perspective. Getting from "submitted" to "in print" can take an excruciatingly long time. I have seen people get freebies (accepted in two weeks, no revisions) on papers that I thought were no great shakes, but conversely I have shopped my own papers around to journal after journal on more than one occasion. Fortunately, but frustratingly, even a "perfect" manuscript usually gets improved by the process.

You are right to list your paper as submitted and to let your PI talk about it in his letter. Any applicant who sells a paper as "almost accepted", "sure to be accepted", "soon to be accepted" or anything else that bespeaks some certainty about the review process is going to sound naive in an interview situation.