Success in field vs GPA

[Feli]

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GPA doesn’t even really matter too much when it comes to securing a residency unless yours is way off the norm. Everyone who has been through this knows that most students have the test answers beforehand in schools so GPA means nothing

Yeah, this is true at most pod schools, but that is only effective for some classes - and more effective in some of those than others.

The rubber hits the road in the pod school classes that actually make new exams or have newer professors that don't have old tests going around. There are usually a handful of such classes at any school that will largely determine class ranks (it was physio, LEA, micro, derm, some 3rd year pod med and surg, etc back when I was at Barry). There is also some gpa gap and varied grades for 3rd year clinicals (although some schools give all "A" on 3rd year clinics just for showing up).

Mainly, on clerkships, it's easy to tell which students read just by residents and attendings asking them questions and talking with them on rounds or in the OR or at academics. There are no ways to prep for that stuff besides students reading core and classic texts and manuals and journals, going over XRs, working cases, memorizing bugs and drugs, etc. In my entire time from clerk to resident to attending, I was flat out amazed how bad - or how good - some students were.

...Gpa/rank will absolutely be the dealbreaker for even getting clerkship at all (esp in month order where you need it) at most good programs. If one doesn't get the clerkship, very low chance of getting that match (for good programs). Programs also pick interviewees (esp non-clerks) from gpa/rank. Assuming you get the clerkships and residency interviews you want, gpa is about done as a factor (unless the person scrambles... it'd matter one more time). Regardless, it's done being relevant after residency starts.

Basically, gpa for pod students is just like ABFAS for practicing pods.
Sure, you might be able to wiggle around it and still do ok without it, but why limit yourself?

 

[footshazam]

You guys really crack me up when you say that people with low gpas won’t get this or that as if it matters in the garbage dumpster field of podiatry. Truly laughable. Cs and low gpas don’t matter in medical school so why the hell would they matter in podiatry….gtfoh 😂

 

[CleanDryandIntact]

You guys really crack me up when you say that people with low gpas won’t get this or that as if it matters in the garbage dumpster field of podiatry. Truly laughable. Cs and low gpas don’t matter in medical school so why the hell would they matter in podiatry….gtfoh 😂

Respectfully, grades actually DO matter bc for podiatry there’s a stark difference in training quality that varies residency to residency and the good programs choose good people with the highest grades. I mean, why wouldn’t they right ? You’re hypothetically insinuating that Wycoff Heights training is no different from West Penn which is a wild thought

 

[Robin-jay]

GPA doesn’t even really matter too much when it comes to securing a residency unless yours is way off the norm. Everyone who has been through this knows that most students have the test answers beforehand in schools so GPA means nothing

This is 100% true.

Many 4.0 students got there by simply having good connections to test banks for every single medical exam throughout all medical school.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, GPA in podiatry school is meaningless because professors refuse to change their questions leading to "cheat documents" being all that's needed.

I'd wager that someone who is medical illiterate could get a 3.5 GPA in medical school simply based on memorizing test questions that are on those documents.

 

[Robin-jay]

You guys really crack me up when you say that people with low gpas won’t get this or that as if it matters in the garbage dumpster field of podiatry. Truly laughable. Cs and low gpas don’t matter in medical school so why the hell would they matter in podiatry….gtfoh 😂

I don't understand your posts. You're a 3rd/4th year podiatry student that loathes their own career to the point of ridiculing every corner and edge possible on a forums dedicated to the craft.

Why don't you just quit the career and do something else? Surely, someone with your persistent belief podiatry is trash would do poorly trying to incorporate it into your daily routine, self-sabotaging yourself to a future of bottom percentile podiatry income.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

I’m a second year in a top residency program and I think inherently gpa does matter - we have a very strict gpa cutoff.

I feel like GPA also inherently shows you someone’s study habits. Clerkship matters as well, to really evaluate who the person is. Some people do have a high gpa but are social *****s.

Training isn’t the same everywhere. We are really trauma and recon heavy and get leftovers from the other pods or ortho that may not inherently understand injury or pathological mechanisms (pilons, TAR etc). Go to a program where you can learn from competent podiatrists who have a deep understanding of what they are doing. Otherwise you’re going to be a TFP.

 

[wakaflocka88]

I’m a second year in a top residency program and I think inherently gpa does matter - we have a very strict gpa cutoff.

I feel like GPA also inherently shows you someone’s study habits. Clerkship matters as well, to really evaluate who the person is. Some people do have a high gpa but are social *****s.

Training isn’t the same everywhere. We are really trauma and recon heavy and get leftovers from the other pods or ortho that may not inherently understand injury or pathological mechanisms (pilons, TAR etc). Go to a program where you can learn from competent podiatrists who have a deep understanding of what they are doing. Otherwise you’re going to be a TFP.

 

[Robin-jay]

I’m a second year in a top residency program and I think inherently gpa does matter - we have a very strict gpa cutoff.

I feel like GPA also inherently shows you someone’s study habits. Clerkship matters as well, to really evaluate who the person is. Some people do have a high gpa but are social *****s.

Training isn’t the same everywhere. We are really trauma and recon heavy and get leftovers from the other pods or ortho that may not inherently understand injury or pathological mechanisms (pilons, TAR etc). Go to a program where you can learn from competent podiatrists who have a deep understanding of what they are doing. Otherwise you’re going to be a TFP.

Fake reality.

When I took advanced quantum chemistry 600 courses in graduate school, the exams were paper exams, no multiple choice, and completely different each year and the class changed professors quite often. This created an actual exam, something podiatry school doesn't have.

In podiatry school, students pass down identical, not "similar", literally "identical" exam questions for 90-100% of each exam you take over the 4 years.

GPA means nothing in podiatry school. You never know who used resources, who didnt use resources, etc.

The problem is that professors are lazy, re-use questions, and that everything is taken in multiple choice format.

I know its like a gut punch to those who had high GPAs, and maybe they earned it pretty fairly, but the reality is that GPA can't be trust for the aforementioned reasons in podiatry school.

 

[CleanDryandIntact]

Fake reality.

When I took advanced quantum chemistry 600 courses in graduate school, the exams were paper exams, no multiple choice, and completely different each year and the class changed professors quite often. This created an actual exam, something podiatry school doesn't have.

In podiatry school, students pass down identical, not "similar", literally "identical" exam questions for 90-100% of each exam you take over the 4 years.

GPA means nothing in podiatry school. You never know who used resources, who didnt use resources, etc.

The problem is that professors are lazy, re-use questions, and that everything is taken in multiple choice format.

I know its like a gut punch to those who had high GPAs, and maybe they earned it pretty fairly, but the reality is that GPA can't be trust for the aforementioned reasons in podiatry school.

Idk where you went but having gone to a DO integrated program, the DO testing system/program made it nearly impossible to cheat or get answers. All other students/resident I’ve spoken to echo those thoughts.

You might be taking your school experience and applying it broadly as gospel. Also, my program and as others have said their programs have strict cut offs. You may not respect the gpa but the fact there are cutoffs pretty much defeats your argument that it “doesn’t matter” bc if there’s a certain standard then it by default has to matter

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Fake reality.

When I took advanced quantum chemistry 600 courses in graduate school, the exams were paper exams, no multiple choice, and completely different each year and the class changed professors quite often. This created an actual exam, something podiatry school doesn't have.

In podiatry school, students pass down identical, not "similar", literally "identical" exam questions for 90-100% of each exam you take over the 4 years.

GPA means nothing in podiatry school. You never know who used resources, who didnt use resources, etc.

The problem is that professors are lazy, re-use questions, and that everything is taken in multiple choice format.

I know its like a gut punch to those who had high GPAs, and maybe they earned it pretty fairly, but the reality is that GPA can't be trust for the aforementioned reasons in podiatry school.

Can’t wait to do your revision surgeries lol

 

[Robin-jay]

Idk where you went but having gone to a DO integrated program, the DO testing system/program made it nearly impossible to cheat or get answers. All other students/resident I’ve spoken to echo those thoughts.

You might be taking your school experience and applying it broadly as gospel. Also, my program and as others have said their programs have strict cut offs. You may not respect the gpa but the fact there are cutoffs pretty much defeats your argument that it “doesn’t matter” bc if there’s a certain standard then it by default has to matter

Maybe my school was a bigger offender than others.

I think it makes sense that GPA cutoffs can exist at certain points, like 2.5, 3.0, etc. but above that, I feel like you get stuck in no mans land where you don't know if a 3.9 GPA was obtained without unfair resources or with unfair resources.

 

[Robin-jay]

Can’t wait to do your revision surgeries lol

Just because I don't sit here and act elite doesn't mean you are more capable or gifted than me.

 

[bloxxeeey]

Test banks are a huge problem even at a "DO integrated program". The better you networked the more people you knew who could give you access to the test banks. I had classmates who tried to keep them private and you had to be in their "clan" to get access. I'll never forget studying my ass off for one of our exams to only find out one of my friends had the exact exam with the exception of maybe 2 questions on a pdf prior to the exam. While I sat there and pushed my brain to come up with answers, he breezed through it. That was the experience and tbh I saw it with my pgy-1 and pgy-2 residents. I could quickly tell that this 3.9 GPA resident doesn't have the knowledge of a 3.0 GPA resident. I'm sure they'd do great if I gave them the test bank of questions I was going to PIMP them on though.

 

[Robin-jay]

Test banks are a huge problem even at a "DO integrated program". The better you networked the more people you knew who could give you access to the test banks. I had classmates who tried to keep them private and you had to be in their "clan" to get access. I'll never forget studying my ass off for one of our exams to only find out one of my friends had the exact exam with the exception of maybe 2 questions on a pdf prior to the exam. While I sat there and pushed my brain to come up with answers, he breezed through it. That was the experience and tbh I saw it with my pgy-1 and pgy-2 residents. I could quickly tell that this 3.9 GPA resident doesn't have the knowledge of a 3.0 GPA resident. I'm sure they'd do great if I gave them the test bank of questions I was going to PIMP them on though.

This is also the the world I'm familiar with, the real world.

 

[deleted285117]

Just because I don't sit here and act elite doesn't mean you are more capable or gifted than me.

 

[Hybrocure]

I’m a second year in a top residency program and I think inherently gpa does matter - we have a very strict gpa cutoff.

I feel like GPA also inherently shows you someone’s study habits. Clerkship matters as well, to really evaluate who the person is. Some people do have a high gpa but are social *****s.

Training isn’t the same everywhere. We are really trauma and recon heavy and get leftovers from the other pods or ortho that may not inherently understand injury or pathological mechanisms (pilons, TAR etc). Go to a program where you can learn from competent podiatrists who have a deep understanding of what they are doing. Otherwise you’re going to be a TFP.

I remember when I was a resident and thought those cases were cool.

Literally the best thing you can be is a TFP I realize now. Those peripheral TFP attendings back in residency had it made.

 

[CleanDryandIntact]

Test banks are a huge problem even at a "DO integrated program". The better you networked the more people you knew who could give you access to the test banks…

Sounds like you and @Robin-jay are going through huge bouts of cope or your egos are so fragile that you can’t admit that on avg the higher gpa student will get priority over their lower gpa counterparts. Especially at the better programs with better training. Your feelings about it are irrelevant

Truth hurts. Get over it.

 

[Hybrocure]

Sounds like you and @Robin-jay are going through huge bouts of cope or your egos are so fragile that you can’t admit that on avg the higher gpa student will get priority over their lower gpa counterparts. Especially at the better programs with better training. Your feelings about it are irrelevant

Truth hurts. Get over it.

Aren’t you still a student?

Are you a test bank boi?

 

[Robin-jay]

Sounds like you and @Robin-jay are going through huge bouts of cope or your egos are so fragile that you can’t admit that on avg the higher gpa student will get priority over their lower gpa counterparts. Especially at the better programs with better training. Your feelings about it are irrelevant

Truth hurts. Get over it.

Truth doesn't hurt, I already stated the truth of the infamous test banks floating around.

My ego isn't fragile. If it was fragile, I'd be hard-pressed to engage in vulnerable topics like how GPA importance is significantly fraternized because of testing banks, and ultimately lead by lazy and unmotivated professors.

My GPA is by no means poor, so it isn't to cope. It's to show how disingenuous our system is and how GPA importance is really only considered by people who often had test bank resources.

The first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge it. People who turn a blind eye to testing banks are part of the problem, and are deniers. We need to hold the system accountable for participating in re-used, word-by-word, verbatim, identical exams year after year because of professors becoming lazy and unmotivated to make things more acceptable and reasonable in our field.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

I remember when I was a resident and thought those cases were cool.

Literally the best thing you can be is a TFP I realize now. Those peripheral TFP attendings back in residency had it made.

I think the TFP practice is perfectly acceptable. But not if they’re doing TAR or complex recons.

I still don’t believe the whole gpa conspiracy but it didn’t happen at my school. Top students at my class didn’t need to cheat. Cirriculum isn’t that hard at my school. Can believe that teachers are lazy though. Sorry that happened at your school.

 

[CleanDryandIntact]

Aren’t you still a student?

Are you a test bank boi?

No. Podiatry has problems but people on here are teetering on EVERYTHING being nepotism or a sham. Of course cheating happens everywhere but presenting the exceptions and speaking of them as if they’re the rule is idiotic.

Anyone still in school reading this, shoot for the highest grades possible bc it can only help get externships and then focus on being a good person and working hard. Put yourselves in positions to be choosers and not beggars. The best starting point is good grades

 

[footshazam]

I don't understand your posts. You're a 3rd/4th year podiatry student that loathes their own career to the point of ridiculing every corner and edge possible on a forums dedicated to the craft.

Why don't you just quit the career and do something else? Surely, someone with your persistent belief podiatry is trash would do poorly trying to incorporate it into your daily routine, self-sabotaging yourself to a future of bottom percentile podiatry income.

here’s the kicker… I did leave 😂

 

[PODIATRYCRAZE]

I am back. Havent been on this account for a while, but wanted to follow up. Im now been a year out of residency, I am a podiatrist in an ortho group. Life has been so much better than school ever was. If you read this and have low GPA, but have high passion for surgery and medicine, I can tell you, GPA is not a direct indication if you will be successful. Looking back, GPA in school has little to do with how successful I currently am in my practice. Are they hoops you have to jump? sure, and it sucks, but the most important thing to me is caring about my patients, not the dollars, and how hungry I am to learn, not just getting a stupid GPA number, but really learning. Its a life long hustle to learn and to care. That will make you successful and happy.

Wonderful story. I could definitely have used a motivational story like this back when I was in school too. We come from a similar place with similar results.

But I have to ask, does your job require ABFAS or do they take ABPM too?

 

[Robin-jay]

here’s the kicker… I did leave 😂

I don't understand why people who leave a field continue to following it like magnet. I've seen a couple people leave the field of medicine, podiatry, etc. only to talk about it for months or years afterwards daily.

 

[footshazam]

I don't understand why people who leave a field continue to following it like magnet. I've seen a couple people leave the field of medicine, podiatry, etc. only to talk about it for months or years afterwards daily.

I just pop on every now and then. You are so angry because you’re in podiatry still with no way out lol and you lack comprehension skills so I’m not even going back and forth with you have a miserable day as always 😂 people in this forum routinely echo the same sentiments I do. You’re always into with somebody on here with your non sensical thinking.

 

[footshazam]

podiatry literally gives people things to talk about every single day and none of it is good! Hence why you are all talking about the botched APMLE exam. This isn’t stuff people are making up it’s literally stuff that is happening every single day! Just a few weeks ago it was the AMA. Stop being in denial!

 

[Weirdy]

Gonna ask you guys to stay on topic and refrain from ad hominem attacks or posts will start getting deleted.

High GPAs are necessary. It is an objective measure of whatever content you learned in school, no matter how flawed schools are.
Everything in moderation.

There are people who have extremely high GPAs, have entire surgical texts in their heads for every conceivable question- but have zero common sense, hand skills, or people skills.

There are extremely hard working, likeable, quick thinking people who have very low GPAs-but can't recall correct treatment options for text book problems.

Both can harm the patient.

You need a combination of both.
In the real world no one will care about your GPA, but it is completely reasonable to have hard GPA cutoffs.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

GPA and success do correlate with each other in MD/DO. Maybe not so much in DPM as the quality of applicants are terrible. Therefore some people do luck out for many reasons.

Podiatry is not like MD/DO. You can create your own luck by just opening up your own practice and just being likeable to your patients even if you only do bread and butter podiatry. Some residents really latch onto attendings and become their shadows and get plugged in with other connections.

There are certain podiatrists who did certain fellowships and who are now all over the social media being consultants for companies when they have little to no experience. You will never see that in MD/DO.

The amount of kissing butt is a lot more in podiatry than MD/DO.

So yes GPA may not equal success in podiatry but it does matter in the real world. Of course there are outliers such as students being incredibly smart but have no people skills. But overall if you have a great GPA in MD/DO medical school these candidates end up matching in great specialties and go on to have fruitful careers.

 

[Adam Smasher]

Let's take a step back. If we can't agree how important your GPA is...

How important are the classes on which your GPA is calculated? How important is it to sit in podiatry school paying tuition on courses for 4 years that ultimately may not matter?

Have a nice day, fam

 

[deleted285117]

Let’s throw this thread in the wood chipper already.

 

[Weirdy]

Deleting comments.

Next transgression, thread will be locked.

 

[IronTalus]

Wonderful story. I could definitely have used a motivational story like this back when I was in school too. We come from a similar place with similar results.

But I have to ask, does your job require ABFAS or do they take ABPM too?

My job requires one, ABFAS or ABPM.

 

[blessed.pod]

GPA does not mean a thing. I have a new resident that had a high GPA but has not been impressive these first couple of weeks. They are always late and their sense of urgency to do things is nada. I've seen people with so-so GPA who grind hard and blow it out of the waters when it comes to clinic, inpatient, and surgeries.

 

[dtrack22]

This is the dumbest thread I’ve read in awhile. Obviously GPA doesn’t always predict clinical/surgical acumen. But a poor GPA will absolutely reduce your training opportunities, it will close doors before you even have the chance to interview or make an impression.

Obviously a great GPA doesn’t guarantee you the best training, and plenty of people with lower GPAs will make more money or be more successful in practice than their pi delta classmates.

GPA is not “meaningless.” GPA also does not predict professional success. This thread is just a bunch of people with good GPAs justifying their bad decision to go into podiatry and get good training only to have at least one crap job with crap pay after residency. And a bunch of low GPA folks justifying their reduced training opportunities because they lucked into a good job and/or are professionally satisfied for the time being.

More memes, fewer threads like this.