Such thing as too much research?

[staphkills]

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Hi all,

I was wondering, if I were to do research for all summers (even the summer before freshmen year) in addition to doing clinical research and lab research for all 4 years in college be considered too much research?

I'm very interested in going the MD/pHD route, but right now I'm not quite sure if my grades are sufficient to do so. So, I've been thinking that I might have to choose one or the other. If I were to just apply for MD (or DO) programs, would adcoms question my motivation to be a doctor due to my research experience? If the amount of research experience doesn't matter and adcoms would just like to see clinical experience, would they view a mediocre clinical experince in negative light due to the research experience? In other words, would they have wanted a more balanced clinical and research experience than a lot of research experience and a average clinical experience? Also, what is "average" clinical experience? How many hours of clinical experience is "average"?

Thanks!

 

[scrambizle]

Interviewer: "So it looks like you really enjoyed research. Tell me about it."
You: "Well I really wanted to devote even more time to it, especially since I would like to continue with research during my medical career, but I had to limit myself so you would think I was balanced."

Do what you love, and it seems like you love doing a ton of research. Shadow some doctors and volunteer in an ER a few nights a week during the summers you're doing research. Admissions really cares that you're doing fulfilling EC's that are meaningful to you, and they'll think very highly of 4 summers of research. If you get published, bring a copy of your article in for the interview -- they'll eat that up. Also, many MD's do clinical and even bench research. you do NOT need a PhD to be a physician scientist. With DO its a little harder to get into academics, but I've had two or three DO professors at my allopathic school.

And RELAX! It sounds like you're either a college freshman or still in high school. Go enjoy life!

 

[aebvd97]

Really?? Of course not, especially if you are interested in MD/PhD, but you should be doing because you are interested. Don't do it to try and impress schools.

 

[flip26]

Just be sure to have all your ducks in a row: clinical volunteering, GPA, MCAT...no such thing as "too much" research, but if you are lagging in other areas, it will beg the question of poor use of time in college.

EDIT: just notice I rolled the post count odometer to "space odyssey" level...

 

[NickNaylor]

Just be sure to have all your ducks in a row: clinical volunteering, GPA, MCAT...no such thing as "too much" research, but if you are lagging in other areas, it will beg the question of poor use of time in college.

EDIT: just notice I rolled the post count odometer to "space odyssey" level...

I echo this. It seems like there's a general consensus that research experience will help you get into top tier schools since they are generally researched-based. Note that this does NOT mean that research is required to get into them. You need to make sure that other things are done well first though: clinical experience, GPA, and MCAT. I think these three things are more important than research experience.

 

[LizzyM]

If you enjoy research, go for it. Do be sure to do something that exposes you to clinical settings and to the work physicians do in caring for patients. At the very least, you should have one semester of clinical work (a half day a week, perhaps). Even better would be a little care over a period of years. If your research has any clinical application or is one of your collaborators is a physician, you may find it interesting to shadow that doc and see the patients and families you are working to help.

Some people who think that they'd prefer MD/PhD don't get any clinical experience in college and when they get to med school they discover that they like clinical service so much more than research and that the PhD was actually a bad choice. Don't be that guy, try clinical stuff in college.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Hi all,

I was wondering, if I were to do research for all summers (even the summer before freshmen year) in addition to doing clinical research and lab research for all 4 years in college be considered too much research?

I'm very interested in going the MD/pHD route, but right now I'm not quite sure if my grades are sufficient to do so. So, I've been thinking that I might have to choose one or the other. If I were to just apply for MD (or DO) programs, would adcoms question my motivation to be a doctor due to my research experience? If the amount of research experience doesn't matter and adcoms would just like to see clinical experience, would they view a mediocre clinical experince in negative light due to the research experience? In other words, would they have wanted a more balanced clinical and research experience than a lot of research experience and a average clinical experience? Also, what is "average" clinical experience? How many hours of clinical experience is "average"?

Thanks!

No one has a magical number of hours that is "significant" - you can spend thousands of hours doing something like changing bed sheets and get literally nothing out of it, or you can shadow for 5 hours and see something that piques your interest. It's very subjective in that light.

Be wary of MD/PHD - they are very hard to get into, and while most programs will kick you back into MD admissions if you aren't accepted into MD/PHD, it's often pretty late in the process and the people involved looking at your file are often not the same. One of my friends is having this problem, even as a URM with great GPA, MCAT, and research. He will probably have to reapply next year. So definitely explore ALL your options before committing to this sort of thing, and ask specific adcoms if what you have done is substantial enough for their liking if you want.

 

[tiedyeddog]

EDIT: just notice I rolled the post count odometer to "space odyssey" level...

Haha, we all wanted to be astronauts as kids, right?!

 

[Spiker]

Dude since you dont think you gpa is good enough that probably means you need to spend more time studying less time researching

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Just be sure to have all your ducks in a row: clinical volunteering, GPA, MCAT...no such thing as "too much" research, but if you are lagging in other areas, it will beg the question of poor use of time in college.

EDIT: just notice I rolled the post count odometer to "space odyssey" level...

 

[BlueElmo]

How can there be too much of anything in this process?

 

[ChubbyChaser]

The only potential problem i see is during the interview they ask "why not MD/pHd or why not PHD?" Just make sure you have a good answer to those and no problem.

 

[CCLCMer]

Hi all,

I was wondering, if I were to do research for all summers (even the summer before freshmen year) in addition to doing clinical research and lab research for all 4 years in college be considered too much research?

Not if you want to come to my school! CCLCM requires all applicants to have done significant research, so you'd be very well prepared. This a five year research MD program, which might be good for you if you love research but don't want to commit to getting a whole PhD. You still need to get some clinical experience though if you want to apply to any kind of medical school. I don't know for sure about MD/PhD programs, but CCLCM still expects clinical experience even though the curriculum is heavily research oriented.

 

[Penguick]

This isn't a stupid question. My premed advisor actually told me I had too much research, so med schools weren't going to take me seriously. Of course, he was wrong.

If you love research, keep doing it. It shows dedication and hard work.

 

[Red Leader]

OP, as a fellow prospective mudphud I can say there is no such thing as "too much" research as others here have said.

When people tell you "research is a big boost but is not required for top tier" you must read between the lines.

Here's what they really mean:

- if all things were equal, and you have research and the other guy didn't, you'd get in. In addition, I believe these schools value research more than clinical experience since I learned in another thread that apparently pushing around discharged people between the parking lot and their room counts as "clinical experience." Research, if you are actually involved in a project, is much more demanding than that manual labor. Research FTW in my book, but then again I am biased as a prospective MD/PhD.

By the way, there's a physician scientist forum on SDN as well. Lots of mudphuds and people who know what they are talking about there to guide people like us. There is this one guy thouguh, Neuronix, watch out for him because he is a bully aka mod.

 

[CCLCMer]

By the way, there's a physician scientist forum on SDN as well. Lots of mudphuds and people who know what they are talking about there to guide people like us. There is this one guy thouguh, Neuronix, watch out for him because he is a bully aka mod.

No, he's not really a bully, even though he disses Cleveland every chance he gets. He's just had some bad experiences and got disillusioned.

 

[AdmiralChz]

OP, as a fellow prospective mudphud I can say there is no such thing as "too much" research as others here have said.

When people tell you "research is a big boost but is not required for top tier" you must read between the lines.

Here's what they really mean:

- if all things were equal, and you have research and the other guy didn't, you'd get in. In addition, I believe these schools value research more than clinical experience since I learned in another thread that apparently pushing around discharged people between the parking lot and their room counts as "clinical experience." Research, if you are actually involved in a project, is much more demanding than that manual labor. Research FTW in my book, but then again I am biased as a prospective MD/PhD.

By the way, there's a physician scientist forum on SDN as well. Lots of mudphuds and people who know what they are talking about there to guide people like us. There is this one guy thouguh, Neuronix, watch out for him because he is a bully aka mod.

You make a good point that not all research is equal. Well, all clinical experience is similarly not equal. Just merely having clinical experience (or really any EC including research) won't get you in - it's all about how you promote what you did and what you accomplished/learned/gleaned from the experience (you can't assume that people will know what you did just because you "worked in Dr. James' Sleepy Drosophila lab" - without any descriptors, you could have done anything from cleaning the floors at night to injecting flies and measuring results directly. Maybe that person who pushed around discharged people got an incredible and interesting look into the ending stages of hospitalization, and the roles that the medical staff, family, and patient play.

 

[ReptarBar]

you can definitely have too much research. go on mdapps and look at profiles that are 3.9+ gpa and 40+ mcat. youll wonder how any of these people could not get interviews/secondaries at some places, and its because they have done way too much research and dont have a good clinical foundation.

 

[Red Leader]

No, he's not really a bully, even though he disses Cleveland every chance he gets. He's just had some bad experiences and got disillusioned.

haha yeah I am just messing. It is good to have someone like him though because disillusionment is more common than one would think for a program where people applying are really interested in research in the first place. In addition, there is a lot of truth in what Neuronix says because I see it everyday among the grad students (PhD) that I interact with and they echo a lot of what he says. It varies from lab to lab of course but I sense a undertone of disillusionment everywhere you go. Something to be aware of definitely.

My motto is you can learn a thousand things from anyone you meet if you are just willing to listen. 🙂

 

[Red Leader]

you can definitely have too much research. go on mdapps and look at profiles that are 3.9+ gpa and 40+ mcat. youll wonder how any of these people could not get interviews/secondaries at some places, and its because they have done way too much research and dont have a good clinical foundation.

Or their flies were unzipped. UH OH!

 

[Red Leader]

You make a good point that not all research is equal. Well, all clinical experience is similarly not equal. Just merely having clinical experience (or really any EC including research) won't get you in - it's all about how you promote what you did and what you accomplished/learned/gleaned from the experience (you can't assume that people will know what you did just because you "worked in Dr. James' Sleepy Drosophila lab" - without any descriptors, you could have done anything from cleaning the floors at night to injecting flies and measuring results directly. Maybe that person who pushed around discharged people got an incredible and interesting look into the ending stages of hospitalization, and the roles that the medical staff, family, and patient play.

Excellent point Sir Admiral. 👍