Suggested Delay of Cycle with Petition

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squids82

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Hi all,

I was wondering about everyone thought of the feasibility of the ideas floating around reddit and organizing a petition to delay the start of AMCAS this cycle to accommodate those whose test dates were cancelled.
 
While I understand the intention, I don't think this is feasible as of now. They're going to want to see how things play out over the coming months. I see no reason why AMCAS would delay but perhaps schools will be willing to shift their application dates back? Honestly, I think we just need to give it time. Everyone is scrambling to figure things out
 
wiswal said:
Hi all,

I was wondering about everyone thought of the feasibility of the ideas floating around reddit and organizing a petition to delay the start of AMCAS this cycle to accommodate those whose test dates were cancelled.
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This is situation about making sacrifices. Even if you lose an app cycle, med schools aren't going anywhere.
 
Goro said:
This is situation about making sacrifices. Even if you lose an app cycle, med schools aren't going anywhere.
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Yeah, but looking at it (as usual) selfishly from the perspective of the schools, are they REALLY going to make the sacrifice of potentially having thousands of fewer applicants to choose from because people couldn't take the MCAT during Spring/early Summer 2020 and they simply couldn't bring themselves to push the cycle back by a few months? I honestly don't think so.

I also don't think anyone needs to sign a petition to make it happen. Acting in the their own self interest, I predict that cancelled MCAT dates will be rescheduled by AAMC with additional dates added late Summer/early Fall, and that the cycle will extend by a few months on the back end, whether or not the start of the cycle is pushed back.

Just my 2 cents, but I've been watching these schools repeatedly act in their own self interest for over a year now, and it will not be in their interest to have thousands of fewer applicants to choose from due to locking everyone who was supposed to take the MCAT between now and July-August into losing a cycle as part of their sacrifice.
 
KnightDoc said:
Yeah, but looking at it (as usual) selfishly from the perspective of the schools, are they REALLY going to make the sacrifice of potentially having thousands of fewer applicants to choose from because people couldn't take the MCAT during Spring/early Summer 2020 and they simply couldn't bring themselves to push the cycle back by a few months? I honestly don't think so.

I also don't think anyone needs to sign a petition to make it happen. Acting in the their own self interest, I predict that cancelled MCAT dates will be rescheduled by AAMC with additional dates added late Summer/early Fall, and that the cycle will extend by a few months on the back end, whether or not the start of the cycle is pushed back.

Just my 2 cents, but I've been watching these schools repeatedly act in their own self interest for over a year now, and it will not be in their interest to have thousands of fewer applicants to choose from due to locking everyone who was supposed to take the MCAT between now and July-August into losing a cycle as part of their sacrifice.
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it's a seller's market. The schools will have plenty of people who are ready to go this year

And the candidates who won't be ready this year, will be ready next year
 
Goro said:
it's a seller's market. The schools will have plenty of people who are ready to go this year

And the candidates who won't be ready this year, will be ready next year
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Oh, I understand it's always a sellers' market, but what percent of the applicant pool takes the MCAT between March 27th and the end of May or June each year? Would the sellers really be willing to see their market be diminished to such a degree as the better option versus pushing their cycle back by a few months to allow those people to participate? Are you really suggesting that as long as the applicant pool is greater than or equal to 20,000 +/-, collectively the schools are good? If so, the competition for high stat candidates will be fierce in this sellers' market, since there will be far fewer of them than in a typical year, and admission stats (GPA, MCAT, admission %, etc.) will almost certainly go down across the board, at all tiers of school.

If you are right, I am so sorry I am not in a position to apply next year, but, with all due respect, I honestly think their self interest will dictate that they make an accommodation for what might end up being thousands of applicants!! 🙂
 
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gonnif said:
Or they will suspend requirement for MCAT
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Lots of people are hoping for that, but would pushing "on time" back from Labor Day to Thanksgiving really alter the rotation of the earth under these circumstances? I would think making such a radical departure from admissions criteria, or dealing with such a potentially precipitous drop in applications would be far more disruptive, but I'm just a lowly premed, so what do I know?
 
Considering how late things seem to be running this year - with a normal start to the cycle last spring - imagine how a delay would impact things next year. Remember, these Admission committee's have thousands of applications to screen and review, interviews to schedule and host, orientations and tours to give between October - March. If you push things back even 2 months, that compresses the window for all that work to get done on the campus level. As difficult as it seems, I think they'll try to stick to the usual timeline.
 
wiswal said:
I was wondering about everyone thought of the feasibility of the ideas floating around reddit and organizing a petition to delay the start of AMCAS this cycle to accommodate those whose test dates were cancelled.
Click to expand...

Zero percent chance. What accommodations would that look like? What about those who already had MCAT scores taken before March (like the January test-takers or those who took scores from the last 2 years)?

You already get a head start by getting access to the AMCAS application, which in general hasn't changed in maybe 8?? years (when they added "meaningful experience essays"), before having to send them money a month later.

There are tons of resources on how to fill out an AMCAS application, whether they are from AAMC, from test prep companies, admissions counselors, prehealth advising offices, or on SDN.

I will expect the AAMC MCAT team to come out with some statement regarding the testing schedule (all professional exams including USMLE Step exams?) given the current circumstances. I think the LSAC recently rescheduled their LSAT dates, but that should also be considered a contingency.

They're also being a bit selfish as AACOM and AACPM applicants also need their MCAT scores to help with their applications.
 
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openstage said:
Considering how late things seem to be running this year - with a normal start to the cycle last spring - imagine how a delay would impact things next year. Remember, these Admission committee's have thousands of applications to screen and review, interviews to schedule and host, orientations and tours to give between October - March. If you push things back even 2 months, that compresses the window for all that work to get done on the campus level. As difficult as it seems, I think they'll try to stick to the usual timeline.
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I'm not sure I understand -- how are things running late, since it's only March 17th? Have there been any reports of schools missing the March 15th deadline to issue at least as many As as seats in the class? Are lots of schools still interviewing that don't normally interview into March?

The mere fact that people are not hearing and are frustrated does not necessarily mean things are running late. If all schools have met the deadline for issuing the required number of As, things are not running late, even though it might seem so if they are holding more people in suspense than in the past as they wait for action from the first wave of As. Especially with respect to schools that over accepted last year, this might be by design as opposed to an indication that they are overwhelmed and behind schedule. The fact is, we have no way to know if they are still making decisions, or if they have already been made and just not communicated.

I hear what you are saying about schools not wanted to push anything back and compress their process. I'm only suggesting that might be preferable to an alternative where their applications might be down by a very significant percent, depending on what part of a given pool take the MCAT between March and May-June just prior to the start of the cycle. The lower that number is, the more likely you are correct.

There are 14 dates between January 17 and June 5. If they cancel the 10 between now and June 5, that's a lot of dates. Even taking into account people who took the test in previous test years, this could impact 25% or more of the potential applicant pool. It will be great for those applying if you end up with 30,000 people competing for 20,000 seats, but I really don't think the schools will allow that to happen. If the number of people impacted are maybe 5,000 or less, then sure, nothing will change and those people will be SOL, but I honestly think the number will be much higher than that. On the other hand, if the only dates affected are the two that were already announced, and if they add dates in May to compensate, then, no problem, but I also don't think that's realistic given what's happening currently.
 
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KnightDoc said:
Oh, I understand it's always a sellers' market, but what percent of the applicant pool takes the MCAT between March 27th and the end of May or June each year? Would the sellers really be willing to see their market be diminished to such a degree as the better option versus pushing their cycle back by a few months to allow those people to participate? Are you really suggesting that as long as the applicant pool is greater than or equal to 20,000 +/-, collectively the schools are good? If so, the competition for high stat candidates will be fierce in this sellers' market, since there will be so many less of them than in a typical year, and admission stats (GPA, MCAT, admission %, etc.) will almost certainly go down across the board, at all tiers of school.

If you are right, I am so sorry I am not in a position to apply next year, but, with all due respect, I honestly think their self interest will dictate that they make an accommodation for what might end up being thousands of applicants!! 🙂
Click to expand...
Dude, schools get anywhere between 5-15,000 apps.

They can afford the hit of losing the 2020 takers.

Stop thinking like a pre-med
 
Goro said:
Dude, schools get anywhere between 5-15,000 apps.

They can afford the hit of losing the 2020 takers.

Stop thinking like a pre-med
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I can't help it -- it's what I am! 🙂

I still have faith that, if this thing extends beyond the end of April, and the impacted people cannot reschedule by the end of June, that some accommodation will be made so that schools can continue to "get anywhere between 5-15,000 apps" next year. I really don't think they are going to be interested in taking the hit, since it will generate lots of bad press and will also make admissions significantly less competitive next year.
 
Unlikely to change. The cycle is already really long, no school would want to add 1+ month(s) on to it. They may extend submission dates to accommodate, but I think late submissions will still be at a disadvantage. They would most likely cram a bunch of tests in a shorter time frame once the situation is under control. Reapplicants would likely benefit this year.

Out of ~30 tests per year, they have postponed 2 dates, and if they determine a continued risk, they might cancel a few more. In that situation, I think they would develop some other method for testing (More test dates with few people at each one with proper cleaning is always an idea).

Remember, there are ~30k people that applied this year that can apply next year (that is if schools change to allow MCAT in the previous 4 years vs 3). There have also been 4 test dates this year, plus a lot of folks that took the MCAT last year to apply this year. I have known quite a few people that take the MCAT multiple times in a year, which can be lowered to allow more people to take it once this year and decrease the number of exam dates.

Very long-winded post (and unorganized - sorry) for me to say that I doubt they will push back the cycle. There are a ton of creative methods to address the situation.
 
I originally planned on taking a late MCAT this year (August) because I wasn't even going to apply until next 2021 cycle. Because of recent news, do you guys think taking my chances and applying this cycle would be worth it (Assuming my MCAT is good)? I am under the assumption that this cycle will be less competitive due to postponed MCAT scores + students not being able to get their volunteer/shadowing hours and they might cut some slack to those who apply late in the cycle .
*I'm a non-trad so I pretty much have every box checked except for my MCAT and a couple of premed prereqs at this point.
 
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Mr.Smile12 said:
Zero percent chance. What accommodations would that look like? What about those who already had MCAT scores taken before March (like the January test-takers or those who took scores from the last 2 years)?

You already get a head start by getting access to the AMCAS application, which in general hasn't changed in maybe 8?? years (when they added "meaningful experience essays"), before having to send them money a month later.

There are tons of resources on how to fill out an AMCAS application, whether they are from AAMC, from test prep companies, admissions counselors, prehealth advising offices, or on SDN.

I will expect the AAMC MCAT team to come out with some statement regarding the testing schedule (all professional exams including USMLE Step exams?) given the current circumstances. I think the LSAC recently rescheduled their LSAT dates, but that should also be considered a contingency.

They're also being a bit selfish as AACOM and AACPM applicants also need their MCAT scores to help with their applications.
Click to expand...
UPDATE: 3/17/2020: March 27 and April 4 test dates cancelled, and all affected will be contacted and allowed to reschedule. An MCAT COVID-19 questions page has been set up: You are being redirected... . Note that based on past history, there are contingency dates that Pearson and AAMC will likely have set aside for additional test dates but will not disclose them unless deemed necessary.
 
A-Fib said:
Can you guys imagine how many personal statements will touch on the COVID-19, ranging from “I got sick and survived” to “I lived through the unimaginable?”
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Ok. To those who felt offended - I apologize for hurting your feelings.

I am aware that this is a complicated situation. All I am saying is that there potentially will be people who will abuse it. End of topic.
 
Application cycle runs from May to December right?
That's plenty of time to apply in an adcom's eyes

The issue is those that see no other option aside from being mcat, LoRs, and amcas ready on day 1

Relax guys. People apply in september/October and get plenty of choices.
App deadlines might move up to maybe february.
Mcat dates can always be moved to end of the year, and test twice every weekend or so.

The Texan system opens in may to submit and everyone ends up doing it in July. 2 months of delay aren't that big of a deal if you have a solid resume.
 
Another possibility is that less people will apply this cycle due to fears of contracting covid 19.
There are indications that healthcare workers are at higher risk.
 
WhatasizedBurger said:
I'm curious since you have lots more experience than me:
are July applications different than late ones? Is the quality of app easily seen?
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My experience says that the most competitive applicants send in their applications in the first month, and the quality is easily seen.
 
n=1 but I do not think I would've been competitive had I applied later on. Rolling admissions is truly rolling and it's disadvantageous to apply later on
 
KnightDoc said:
I can't help it -- it's what I am! 🙂

I still have faith that, if this thing extends beyond the end of April, and the impacted people cannot reschedule by the end of June, that some accommodation will be made so that schools can continue to "get anywhere between 5-15,000 apps" next year. I really don't think they are going to be interested in taking the hit, since it will generate lots of bad press and will also make admissions significantly less competitive next year.
Click to expand...
Didn't I tell you spend less time on SDN and more time on MCAT prep? 🙂 Did you figure out how many take between March and June each year and get competitive score? How hard it is for AAMC to schedule more exams in summer and also release scores in less than 30 days? I never understood why they need 30 days to release scores.
 
Mr.Smile12 said:
My experience says that the most competitive applicants send in their applications in the first month, and the quality is easily seen.
Click to expand...
That said, some rather interesting non-trads tend to be out of the loop and apply later. We have been surprised about the lack of loss of quality from the start of the season to the end. Of course, that is just skimming the top 10-15% of a strong pool for interview.
 
srk2021 said:
Didn't I tell you spend less time on SDN and more time on MCAT prep? 🙂 Did you figure out how many take between March and June each year and get competitive score? How hard it is for AAMC to schedule more exams in summer and also release scores in less than 30 days? I never understood why they need 30 days to release scores.
Click to expand...
From the AAMC website: Why does it take a month to receive my scores? We understand that waiting 30-35 days after taking your exam is a long time. However, the process to scale and equate every form after test day takes about a month. During this period, we allow time for students to submit any concerns they have about exam questions or testing conditions, and the AAMC then reviews and investigates each concern. Due to this careful analysis and review of feedback from each exam date, we aren’t able to provide a score immediately after exams are completed.
 
srk2021 said:
Didn't I tell you spend less time on SDN and more time on MCAT prep? 🙂 Did you figure out how many take between March and June each year and get competitive score? How hard it is for AAMC to schedule more exams in summer and also release scores in less than 30 days? I never understood why they need 30 days to release scores.
Click to expand...
Also, the issue with just scheduling more dates is that they use commercial centers (Pearson) who have other clients. It's not like those centers are just sitting empty when AAMC isn't using them!! I have no idea what they will be able to do, but they will certainly have to figure something out if, as I suspect, they will be cancelling way more than the two dates they already cancelled.
 
KnightDoc said:
Also, the issue with just scheduling more dates is that they use commercial centers (Pearson) who have other clients. It's not like those centers are just sitting empty when AAMC isn't using them!! I have no idea what they will be able to do, but they will certainly have to figure something out if, as I suspect, they will be cancelling way more than the two dates they already cancelled.
Click to expand...

On my test day, they had people taking other tests, so it does not have to be mutually exclusive. With most other tests, people schedule on short notice (some tests even have walk in availability) , so they would be able schedule more tests easily. Pearson loves the easy and consistent money from AAMC.
 
rdyotz said:
On my test day, they had people taking other tests, so it does not have to be mutually exclusive. With most other tests, people schedule on short notice (some tests even have walk in availability) , so they would be able schedule more tests easily. Pearson loves the easy and consistent money from AAMC.
Click to expand...
Seems like right now MCAT is offered 4 times a month. They could easily add more esp in summer.
 
rdyotz said:
On my test day, they had people taking other tests, so it does not have to be mutually exclusive. With most other tests, people schedule on short notice (some tests even have walk in availability) , so they would be able schedule more tests easily. Pearson loves the easy and consistent money from AAMC.
Click to expand...
Oh, I would have thought that, due to the strict security requirements and length of the exam that the centers would have been blocked off exclusively for MCAT on the dates it was offered. This is good to know!!
 
KnightDoc said:
Oh, I would have thought that, due to the strict security requirements and length of the exam that the centers would have been blocked off exclusively for MCAT on the dates it was offered. This is good to know!!
Click to expand...

My testing center had numerous rooms, I believe MCAT used 2 rooms and the rest a third. I think all they need to do is add extra proctors (due to fingerprint and pat down every time you leave/enter).
 
rdyotz said:
My testing center had numerous rooms, I believe MCAT used 2 rooms and the rest a third. I think all they need to do is add extra proctors (due to fingerprint and pat down every time you leave/enter).
Click to expand...
Okay, but, in that case, keep in mind that kicking the other clients out of their rooms to make room for AAMC might not be so simple due to the "easy and consistent money" from their other clients who will also have a demand backlog and need space when the centers reopen! Again, I am pretty sure those MCAT rooms are not sitting empty on the days AAMC hasn't reserved them. I have a bad feeling adding test dates on short notice this summer is not going to be as simple as we will need it to be.
 
KnightDoc said:
Okay, but, in that case, keep in mind that kicking the other clients out of their rooms to make room for AAMC might not be so simple due to the "easy and consistent money" from their other clients who will also have a demand backlog and need space when the centers reopen! Again, I am pretty sure those MCAT rooms are not sitting empty on the days AAMC hasn't reserved them. I have a bad feeling adding test dates on short notice this summer is not going to be as simple as we will need it to be.
Click to expand...

Those clients pay far less. I have taken other exams at the location, and only used 1 room with 4-5 other people. Also, many companies are not hiring now (though could have that backlog). That said, Pearson will be looking to start making money again, if that means scheduling more tests, they will. By more tests, I mean have MCAT allocated, then give more testing times for other tests (that are shorter... Schedule 8am, 10am, noon, etc as they will need staff there for the MCAT anyways).

Granted, all my information was from 1 MCAT and 2 other tests. No clue what their averages are.
 
rdyotz said:
Those clients pay far less. I have taken other exams at the location, and only used 1 room with 4-5 other people. Also, many companies are not hiring now (though could have that backlog). That said, Pearson will be looking to start making money again, if that means scheduling more tests, they will. By more tests, I mean have MCAT allocated, then give more testing times for other tests (that are shorter... Schedule 8am, 10am, noon, etc as they will need staff there for the MCAT anyways).

Granted, all my information was from 1 MCAT and 2 other tests. No clue what their averages are.
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Believe me, we all hope you are right!!!! 🙂
 
@Goro @LizzyM @Mr.Smile12

Thoughts (if you are able to) on the YouTube Channel MedSchoolCoach saying that he has talked with schools that have said they won't consider the MCAT either at all or with minimal importance for this coming cycle? I noticed the video in a comment on Reddit and thought it was odd how he gave little information so I just chalked it up to him trying to get people to purchase his application editing services
 
Whatever is happening in the world, one thing is constant; thousands and thousands of medical school applicants. And the MCAT is one objective measure to trim down those piles of applications. It already guides many people to self-select away from long shots.
 
wiswal said:
@Goro @LizzyM @Mr.Smile12

Thoughts (if you are able to) on the YouTube Channel MedSchoolCoach saying that he has talked with schools that have said they won't consider the MCAT either at all or with minimal importance for this coming cycle? I noticed the video in a comment on Reddit and thought it was odd how he gave little information so I just chalked it up to him trying to get people to purchase his application editing services
Click to expand...
I don't believe him; he talked to the wrong people, or his N is very very small.
 
wiswal said:
@Goro @LizzyM @Mr.Smile12

Thoughts (if you are able to) on the YouTube Channel MedSchoolCoach saying that he has talked with schools that have said they won't consider the MCAT either at all or with minimal importance for this coming cycle? I noticed the video in a comment on Reddit and thought it was odd how he gave little information so I just chalked it up to him trying to get people to purchase his application editing services
Click to expand...

Admissions committees must approve of any change in admissions standards and should post them on their website. I have not heard confirming news from prehealth advisors in my network, and they would definitely raise a huge ruckus for me to notice. I'm monitoring a similar discussion (albeit larger) which involves petitioning the accreditation body for advice on changes, and I would suspect suspending the MCAT requirement for admission would also need approval from LCME.
 
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